Thank goodness the House of Lords last night had the sense to vote in favour of a new bill which out laws discrimination against gays and lesbians by service providers.
Untill now its been possible for shops, hotels, etc to deny the sale of goods and/or services on moral or religious grounds. Its not just Muslims who can be labeled "extreemist" or "fundamentalist". The far right christian alliance, The Roman Catholic Church, evangelists etc have all tried to get this bill blocked.
One such group in the mid west united states have even stated that they dont believe a female can legitimately call herself a woman unless she has given vaginal birth to a child.
That could rule out a lot of career women, infertile women, or even women who have had a child delivered by cesarian section.
Im guilt free, so I dont have to waste several hours a week in the church attoning for my sins.
It leaves me with more time to play!!
:shock:
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A vote for common sense
Amazing that its taken until 2007 for such outmoded and cruel discrimination to be outlawed.
All the pain, poverty, loneliness, war, intolerance, disease, injustices etc in the World and the spokepersons for certain religious groups are more bothered about stopping gay people having fundamental human rights!
Hopefully these narrow minded bigots don't speak for everyone they supposedly represent!!
All the pain, poverty, loneliness, war, intolerance, disease, injustices etc in the World and the spokepersons for certain religious groups are more bothered about stopping gay people having fundamental human rights!
Hopefully these narrow minded bigots don't speak for everyone they supposedly represent!!
Quote by niceandgentle
Amazing that its taken until 2007 for such outmoded and cruel discrimination to be outlawed.
All the pain, poverty, loneliness, war, intolerance, disease, injustices etc in the World and the spokepersons for certain religious groups are more bothered about stopping gay people having fundamental human rights!
Hopefully these narrow minded bigots don't speak for everyone they supposedly represent!!
Unfortunately I don't think these will ever go away, child poverty alone in the North East is still quite high and shows no signs of lowering :cry:
Quote by jaymar
Amazing that its taken until 2007 for such outmoded and cruel discrimination to be outlawed.
All the pain, poverty, loneliness, war, intolerance, disease, injustices etc in the World and the spokepersons for certain religious groups are more bothered about stopping gay people having fundamental human rights!
Hopefully these narrow minded bigots don't speak for everyone they supposedly represent!!
Unfortunately I don't think these will ever go away, child poverty alone in the North East is still quite high and shows no signs of lowering :cry:
I know, that is sadly true Jaymar.
These people should be focusing on issues like that rather than condemning other human beings because of their sexuality!
Sex God
I feel i have to voice an opinion on this matter. I like liking ppl and until someone gives me reason to dislike someone then that's how it is. Discrimination of any sort is abhorrent to me. I find it a waste of good thinking space. People are put here to enjoy for whatever anyone says or believes this 'might' be the only go at this thing called life we get . Or, the next life might not give us an option on free thought.
It does frighten me these isms and the like. My kids who i bring up to be as tolerant as i can sometimes ask. But my friend says this person or that person is a ******* just because they differ in any way shape or form. I tell them blatently this is the wrong way of thinking. This hurts me as there friends are only around 7-11 years old. These ideas are being perpetuated and fuelled in children by parents and adults who should be thier role models and mentors.
I know I know that maybe things are better (but not for those suffering at the hands of discrimination) as time goes by. But, it is still all so wrong. there should be more 'adult' in a lot of grown ups. Look to the younger children who, unaffected play together and intereact with each other regardless of any differences who makes them think differently eh? We can learn from watching the joy and fun of theses children learn tolorance and then maybe oneday tolorance won't be needed becuase the word will lose its meaning through lack of need.
I am so sorry yo write these inane words, i am no wordsmith as are some (who i greatly admire) who write here. But sitting thinking theses thoughts after initially reading Gemin's entry and the subsequent contributions. Made me want to put something down. No doubt more for me own benefit than others.
Really interested in some of you lots ideas and contributions i find then enlightened and stimulating. thanks for the written word.
Maybe one day all tears spilled will be those of joy not pain
It does frighten me these isms and the like. My kids who i bring up to be as tolerant as i can sometimes ask. But my friend says this person or that person is a ******* just because they differ in any way shape or form. I tell them blatently this is the wrong way of thinking. This hurts me as there friends are only around 7-11 years old. These ideas are being perpetuated and fuelled in children by parents and adults who should be thier role models and mentors.
I know I know that maybe things are better (but not for those suffering at the hands of discrimination) as time goes by. But, it is still all so wrong. there should be more 'adult' in a lot of grown ups. Look to the younger children who, unaffected play together and intereact with each other regardless of any differences who makes them think differently eh? We can learn from watching the joy and fun of theses children learn tolorance and then maybe oneday tolorance won't be needed becuase the word will lose its meaning through lack of need.
I am so sorry yo write these inane words, i am no wordsmith as are some (who i greatly admire) who write here. But sitting thinking theses thoughts after initially reading Gemin's entry and the subsequent contributions. Made me want to put something down. No doubt more for me own benefit than others.
Really interested in some of you lots ideas and contributions i find then enlightened and stimulating. thanks for the written word.
Maybe one day all tears spilled will be those of joy not pain
Quote by browning
The most scary bill going through parliment at the moment is the one that allows bailiffs to force thier way into your home.
If it means thatyou are able to recover money owed to you, why not. Bailiffs act as 'Court Officers'. Why not let them do their job.
Bring back debtor's prison.
On the original subject. The law is a crude tool when it comes to discrimination. It only effects actions not individuals thinking.
In the past some organizations have said there must be one woman on the short list. What an insult!, does that mean that no woman is good enough to get there on her merit? Does that not make people think, "They are not good enough. They are only here because a woman is needed."
Some will disagree, but as I said rules and law can be crude tools.
What next? Ten percent of all employees must be gay. Rules like that just begs someone to say "They only have the job because they are gay."
I know there many who disagree, but it is the mind-set that must be changed not the actions. After all, has laws stopping assault stopped people being beaten up.
In the past some organizations have said there must be one woman on the short list. What an insult!, does that mean that no woman is good enough to get there on her merit? Does that not make people think, "They are not good enough. They are only here because a woman is needed."
Some will disagree, but as I said rules and law can be crude tools.
What next? Ten percent of all employees must be gay. Rules like that just begs someone to say "They only have the job because they are gay."
I know there many who disagree, but it is the mind-set that must be changed not the actions. After all, has laws stopping assault stopped people being beaten up.
Quote by de_sade
On the original subject. The law is a crude tool when it comes to discrimination. It only effects actions not individuals thinking.
In the past some organizations have said there must be one woman on the short list. What an insult!, does that mean that no woman is good enough to get there on her merit? Does that not make people think, "They are not good enough. They are only here because a woman is needed."
Meritocracy is just a dream Travis, though one I wish will come true.
Keep your fingers crossed. One day we might yet see a long line of people up against the wall.... :twisted:
...but who says they merit going up against the wall?
Quote by
The most scary bill going through parliment at the moment is the one that allows bailiffs to force thier way into your home.
If it means that you are able to recover money owed to you, why not. Bailiffs act as 'Court Officers'. Why not let them do their job.
Bring back debtor's prison.
Yes but would you not advocate other ways and means of helping someone in debt before prison? For example, if you were ill, lost your job and your income and could not pay bills for 6 months would you relish prison?
I'm sorry on this occasion I disagree with you, having worked in this field before, there are ways and means of recovering money. There is absolutely no need to invade people's homes with brute force. Yes, I agree money is owed and should be recovered but having seen first hand, 'some' of these bailiffs enjoy the control factor but theis there any need to barge into someone's home at dawn frightening children!
It's a difficult one with many debates I am sure!
Warming the Bed
Quote by
The most scary bill going through parliment at the moment is the one that allows bailiffs to force thier way into your home.
If it means thatyou are able to recover money owed to you, why not. Bailiffs act as 'Court Officers'. Why not let them do their job.
"Court Officer" means bugger all. They're barely more than another Joe in the street, which is worth remembering if you ever have to deal with one.
As someone who's had to deal with a very large bailiff trying to illegally force his way into the home of a disabled, mentally ill woman (shouldering the door from outside, while she had her back against it from within), I would outlaw the lot of 'em. Even more so when I looked at the paperwork and discovered that he was only there because the utility company concerned had lied to the court, claiming she had agreed to, and then defaulted on a ridiculous repayment schedule, just so they could put the bailiff on her door, because they knew she was so poor that seizing her property was going to be the only way they were going to get their money.
Many bailiffs are barely legalised thieves. Some are just thieves. The industry needs a radical overhaul before they get any more power. The idea of the thug I've just described being able to force his way legally into that woman's home defies belief! It would probably have killed her.
Bring back debtor's prison.
Back in the real world...
PJ.
Quote by Geminifemale
Thank goodness the House of Lords last night had the sense to vote in favour of a new bill which out laws discrimination against gays and lesbians by service providers.
This is a good thing to see, however although it will change the 'law' it won't change some peoples warped opinions.
Quote by Kiss
This is a good thing to see, however although it will change the 'law' it won't change some peoples warped opinions.
I completely agree Kiss
Talking of peoples warped opinions I had a very interesting conversation with our 11 year old son after I picked him up from school today... Someone had been saying that he fancied a brown girl in his class and he retaliated by saying that white people shouldn't go out with brown people
(Fuck knows where he got that idea from as Steve and I do not agree with that at all) Obviously he was called a rasist git etc... I explained that people go out with people because of who they are and not be stopped going out with someone because of their colour. I gave him the example of Leona Lewis (recent X Factor winner) who has a white mum and a brown dad.... If they hadn't been able to go out with each other Leona wouldn't have been born and we wouldn't have got to hear her beautiful voice.... He said he apologised at the time but didn't understand why people were calling him a racist, he now does :) He has promised to go in to school tomorrow and seek out the children involved and apologise again explaining that he now understands why it was a very silly thing to say....
If only everyone could be taught tolerance and understanding this world would be a better place :)
whilst the passing if this law is without a doubt a good thing we cannot help but feel that the law is a crude tool - a sledgehammer to crack a nut
laws will never change peoples opinions and ideas - nor will it make people believe anything but their own point of view - the only way to do that is the open-ness of education and the patient tolerance of the participants in this debate
softly softly makes for stronger more long lasting change - and we feel this law will be perceived by those unwilling to accept it as a forcing of the issue
yes it is sad that the issue needed forcing but there are better ways
yes those ways take a little longer but they do produce stringer results
for proof we need only look at the laws relating to sexual discrmination against women - in force for nearly 4 decades - yet so much remains unchanged
similar argumaents can be put forward for race related discrimination laws
the law is a crude blunt instrument - persausion and education are better
laws will never change peoples opinions and ideas - nor will it make people believe anything but their own point of view - the only way to do that is the open-ness of education and the patient tolerance of the participants in this debate
softly softly makes for stronger more long lasting change - and we feel this law will be perceived by those unwilling to accept it as a forcing of the issue
yes it is sad that the issue needed forcing but there are better ways
yes those ways take a little longer but they do produce stringer results
for proof we need only look at the laws relating to sexual discrmination against women - in force for nearly 4 decades - yet so much remains unchanged
similar argumaents can be put forward for race related discrimination laws
the law is a crude blunt instrument - persausion and education are better
Quote by jaymar
The most scary bill going through parliment at the moment is the one that allows bailiffs to force thier way into your home.
If it means that you are able to recover money owed to you, why not. Bailiffs act as 'Court Officers'. Why not let them do their job.
Bring back debtor's prison.
Yes but would you not advocate other ways and means of helping someone in debt before prison? For example, if you were ill, lost your job and your income and could not pay bills for 6 months would you relish prison?
I'm sorry on this occasion I disagree with you, having worked in this field before, there are ways and means of recovering money. There is absolutely no need to invade people's homes with brute force. Yes, I agree money is owed and should be recovered but having seen first hand, 'some' of these bailiffs enjoy the control factor but theis there any need to barge into someone's home at dawn frightening children!
It's a difficult one with many debates I am sure!
I know this is a difficult line to draw, but there are folk out there who will refuse to do anything until the bailiff is at the door.
As for detor's prison, it would just run up more debt.
Quote by Krystal_DeCanter
Surely the bill would be better if it was passed against discriminating against anyone regardless of sexuality. as if it is particularly aimed at one section of society, then people who have a particular dislike of that section will feel agrieved.
Like to many bills it was presented because someone wants it, not because it is a good law. You are right, a law such as you suggest would be far less discriminatory. Funny old place, Parliament.
Another example was Parliament solution to hand guns being used by criminal, stop them being used by law biding subject. Result gun crime has gone up.
Quote by jaymar
What annoys me is that Religious groups can often complain they are victims of discrimination themselves and yet they are the first to stage candlelit vigils against the new laws for the gay people!
Yep!
One of the main problems being that 'they' believe they are right just the same amount we believe we are right.
So who is right?
Quote by Kiss
What annoys me is that Religious groups can often complain they are victims of discrimination themselves and yet they are the first to stage candlelit vigils against the new laws for the gay people!
Yep!
One of the main problems being that 'they' believe they are right just the same amount we believe we are right.
So who is right?
Haven't a clue :undecided: but... from all the protests and rallys I have seen from Gay Rights Groups they tend to be standing up for themselves rather than protesting about other people's rights. I think the Religious Groups on this occasion are very wrong and I understand being gay is against 'their' beliefs but shouldn't they keep that to themselves?
It opens up a massive debate doesn't it? :lol:
