I have a question for the masses.
Who decides whether or not someone is being abused, bullied, harassed, intimidated etc. - andwho shouldhave that decision ?
I'm not talking about "legal definitions" or about the more serious offenses of sexual abuse and stuff, just the general "feeling" of being abused, bullied, harassed etc.- more asking for a consensus of opinion.
Who decides ?
The victim ?
The abuser (etc) ?
Society at large ?
As is customary, I'll give mine.
I view it pretty much as I do "advice" - in so much as it's up to the person receiving, rather the person giving that should decide whether or not to take, and act upon the advice.
I would say that if a person feels bullied, harassed, abused - then they probably are.
This has absolutely nothing to do with the recent press/TV coverage of The Big Brother thing.
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Abuse, bullying, intimidation etc
If you want to know about society and bullying then you just have to look at the CBB and Jade Gooddy.
the press are busy castigating her because she's thick and ignorant, and all because she bullied and abused the asian gal....
But at least she didn't write thouands of words about it....
Or maybe others have not realised that the press treatment of the girl is many times worse than her original sin....they are actually planning her destruction and relishing it.
This, basically, is also bullying....to the point of press-planned suicide.
the press are busy castigating her because she's thick and ignorant, and all because she bullied and abused the asian gal....
But at least she didn't write thouands of words about it....
Or maybe others have not realised that the press treatment of the girl is many times worse than her original sin....they are actually planning her destruction and relishing it.
This, basically, is also bullying....to the point of press-planned suicide.
Sexlightened
I agree with the original definition, given that feeling threatened, confined, bullied or harassed in any way is the personal emotions and resultant feelings of comfort, safety or security and how they are affected by the recipient, therin lies the definition.
As to whether it is strong enough to warrant certain labels, surely that lies in the intention and details of the actions of the aggressor or causal agent.
Individuals have a right to feel secure and respected, even if that is limited to the social mores of members of a society, if one buys into Rousseaus' social contract theory or looks to Rawls' original position there are hypothetical constructs that aim to take man back to an imbalanced or contracted social position that governs how individuals interact and what their varied and intertwined responsibilities towards one another are.
Even if one does not look to the theories or the constructs, by virtue of being social creatures and interacting dynamically we have negligent responsibilities as well as those for our actual actions...
Hmm...
As to whether it is strong enough to warrant certain labels, surely that lies in the intention and details of the actions of the aggressor or causal agent.
Individuals have a right to feel secure and respected, even if that is limited to the social mores of members of a society, if one buys into Rousseaus' social contract theory or looks to Rawls' original position there are hypothetical constructs that aim to take man back to an imbalanced or contracted social position that governs how individuals interact and what their varied and intertwined responsibilities towards one another are.
Even if one does not look to the theories or the constructs, by virtue of being social creatures and interacting dynamically we have negligent responsibilities as well as those for our actual actions...
Hmm...
I'll try again
I believe the it is the person on the receiving end that will eventually perceive if what they are experiencing is bulling or not and then it's for them to decide what course of action should be taken.
I do however think that people have differing ideas to what bulling is and some have a higher threshold of coping with it.I on the other hand do not and will not tolerate it if I believe that a person is suffering at the hands of one person or a group.
Hope I make sense.
ops: :oops:
I believe the it is the person on the receiving end that will eventually perceive if what they are experiencing is bulling or not and then it's for them to decide what course of action should be taken.
I do however think that people have differing ideas to what bulling is and some have a higher threshold of coping with it.I on the other hand do not and will not tolerate it if I believe that a person is suffering at the hands of one person or a group.
Hope I make sense.
ops: :oops: I would say that the only person who can really say whether it's bullying or not is the "victim". If they're feeling intimidated, victimised, bullied etc then they probably are being. If they don't feel that's the case then who has the right to tell them that's how they shouldbe feeling.
It's kind of like political correctness isn't it? It just goes too far sometimes and then stops making any sense or having any reason to it. I'm a short arse, an oompa loompa or titch even ffs I am NOT vertically challenged
It's kind of like political correctness isn't it? It just goes too far sometimes and then stops making any sense or having any reason to it. I'm a short arse, an oompa loompa or titch even ffs I am NOT vertically challenged
I wonder how many bullies know and realise they're actually being a bully - and not just forthright, forceful, a 'say things as they are', if I don't like you I'll tell you type person.
Trouble is, when someone displays those characteristics constantly towards one person, without ever, or rarely displaying a more compassionate, understanding side, do they not realise that there's bullying tendancies being shown, maybe they don't realise, especially when they (and I would say bullies normally do) display the more compassionate, forgiving, understanding tendencies towards others.
So I would say that the victim has a big input as to whether bullying is happening
On the other hand - you also get, the people that cry wolf, play a good bullying victim. As soon as something doesn't go their way, they'll do the proverbial 'play dead' - change the subject from whatever they weren't getting their way about, to the bullying perspective. Then, quite often, the PC police get involved, offer rather a lot of sympathy, alienate the 'bully' and let the 'victim' get their way ....... the good players are in a win win situation.
Also the people that pull out the bullying card, play the victim, when they've pushed another person to the limit. Often a lot more subtle than the first bully example, they undermine, bicker with, pout if that person doesn't give them exactly what they want all the time, snipe about, ignore, or get in their faces ...... and when the victim finally snaps and refuses to take it any more - bobs you're uncle, out comes the Bullying card, played to dramatic effect.........
The people I despise the most, they're so used to people bowing to them, getting their own way, that they don't realise they've initiated the outrageous bullying to begin with, and all they've experienced is someone finally snapping at them, to try to get them to stop, which they are far too quick to leap up and shout BULLY!!! You half expect the dramatic faint to happen, with one of their sidekicks wafting smelling salts under their nose
People that cry wolf, to me, are as bad as bullies themselves - it's them that make it difficult for real victims to come forward, from an extremely distressful, upsetting, and often humilating situation, safe in the knowledge that they're going to be taken seriously, with both compassion and understanding.
Trouble is, when someone displays those characteristics constantly towards one person, without ever, or rarely displaying a more compassionate, understanding side, do they not realise that there's bullying tendancies being shown, maybe they don't realise, especially when they (and I would say bullies normally do) display the more compassionate, forgiving, understanding tendencies towards others.
So I would say that the victim has a big input as to whether bullying is happening
On the other hand - you also get, the people that cry wolf, play a good bullying victim. As soon as something doesn't go their way, they'll do the proverbial 'play dead' - change the subject from whatever they weren't getting their way about, to the bullying perspective. Then, quite often, the PC police get involved, offer rather a lot of sympathy, alienate the 'bully' and let the 'victim' get their way ....... the good players are in a win win situation.
Also the people that pull out the bullying card, play the victim, when they've pushed another person to the limit. Often a lot more subtle than the first bully example, they undermine, bicker with, pout if that person doesn't give them exactly what they want all the time, snipe about, ignore, or get in their faces ...... and when the victim finally snaps and refuses to take it any more - bobs you're uncle, out comes the Bullying card, played to dramatic effect.........
The people I despise the most, they're so used to people bowing to them, getting their own way, that they don't realise they've initiated the outrageous bullying to begin with, and all they've experienced is someone finally snapping at them, to try to get them to stop, which they are far too quick to leap up and shout BULLY!!! You half expect the dramatic faint to happen, with one of their sidekicks wafting smelling salts under their nose
People that cry wolf, to me, are as bad as bullies themselves - it's them that make it difficult for real victims to come forward, from an extremely distressful, upsetting, and often humilating situation, safe in the knowledge that they're going to be taken seriously, with both compassion and understanding.
Quote by celestria
I would say that the only person who can really say whether it's bullying or not is the "victim". If they're feeling intimidated, victimised, bullied etc then they probably are being. If they don't feel that's the case then who has the right to tell them that's how they should be feeling.
:thumbup: agreed
I'm pretty big on being straight with people, and although I know this is not meant to be anythng to do with the BB thing.... but..... as we have seen (or as is being suggested) sometimes it may be the case that the 'bully' doesnt realise they're doing it and need to be told (preferably by the 'victim' or person who feels they're a victim). Unless it comes straight from the horses mouth it doesnt matter what other people think, imo, because everyone's perception is different, and its the person who feels they're being bullied that counts
aww fuckity
, just 'previewed' and Missy's already typed the rest of what I was gonna say! :lol: 
Sex God
having been bullyed when i was a kid i have to agree with Darkfire on this
well said hun :thumbup:
well said hun :thumbup:
Sex God
Bullying is very intresting,
i was bullied for most of my school life....reasons
i was intellegant, i had a brace - > and there for couldnt say certain words, i could play sport. It was contious bulling, i was beaten up a number of times, i had me chest slashed. I was picked on about how i dresses, everything
Well i look at my life now...i have managed to achieve things where i would never though possible. I played in a football team, i was attending meeting where i had to speak my mind.
i suppose that has made me the sub, i am, and it means i bottle things up then explode but that is me.....
Mike
i was bullied for most of my school life....reasons
i was intellegant, i had a brace - > and there for couldnt say certain words, i could play sport. It was contious bulling, i was beaten up a number of times, i had me chest slashed. I was picked on about how i dresses, everything
Well i look at my life now...i have managed to achieve things where i would never though possible. I played in a football team, i was attending meeting where i had to speak my mind.
i suppose that has made me the sub, i am, and it means i bottle things up then explode but that is me.....
Mike
Quote by
I f a 'victim' feels abused, that is only their perspective. However working on the bases that we should all consider others feelings, that person is probably being abused.
.......but there are a lot of defendants in the dock who claim that society is abusing them.
They would, they've been stopped by society from doing what they shouldn't be doing! Having worked in this field before, I used to find it extremely amusing that 'some' defendants would try their best at "wrongful arrest" "police bullying" and the all time favourite "it wasn't me, they pick on me because of my past..."!! :shock:
Annoys the hell out of me because you do get innocent people locked up but the idiots have already laid the flippin foundations!
Its true that the victim is USUALLY the one who has the right to decide that they are being victimized, harassed or bullied yes, however, what if the person who decides they are being bullied and victimized is actually however an over sensitive and completely over reactive type, or a person that takes even the slightest bit of criticism too personally and dwells on it and makes THEMSELVES feel victimised?
Im sure most of you know these types of people? I work in a large group of males, we all have a lot of banter and generally take the piss and degrade each other to the point of what some would call harassment or even down right abuse (not physical you understand)!!
Im afraid that in my opinion there are some types of people (whom i know personally) that cannot take jokes, banter or a bit of verbal sparring and whimper and moan, make themselves out to be the victim and generally in reality seem to enjoy the negative attention that they CLAIM to recieve whilst publicly making a big issue out of being unhappy about it!!
I suppose that what im trying to say is that, i think the way in which some things are intended play a large part in whether or not they/it can be construed as victimisation, harassment or bullying, and that in some cases the madia (in the case of big bro) or the PC brigade jump on there high horse and start defending a cause that they had no need to!! Most of the time the actual person involved probably wasnt too bothered untill somebody nade a massive point that they SHOULD be!! :shock:
RANT OVER
Im sure most of you know these types of people? I work in a large group of males, we all have a lot of banter and generally take the piss and degrade each other to the point of what some would call harassment or even down right abuse (not physical you understand)!!
Im afraid that in my opinion there are some types of people (whom i know personally) that cannot take jokes, banter or a bit of verbal sparring and whimper and moan, make themselves out to be the victim and generally in reality seem to enjoy the negative attention that they CLAIM to recieve whilst publicly making a big issue out of being unhappy about it!!
I suppose that what im trying to say is that, i think the way in which some things are intended play a large part in whether or not they/it can be construed as victimisation, harassment or bullying, and that in some cases the madia (in the case of big bro) or the PC brigade jump on there high horse and start defending a cause that they had no need to!! Most of the time the actual person involved probably wasnt too bothered untill somebody nade a massive point that they SHOULD be!! :shock:
RANT OVER
Quote by celestria
I would say that the only person who can really say whether it's bullying or not is the "victim". If they're feeling intimidated, victimised, bullied etc then they probably are being. If they don't feel that's the case then who has the right to tell them that's how they should be feeling.
I agree with this to a point, however, this principle does not acknowledge the influence, impact and affect of mindsets and personality types.
It is possible in some situations for people to prejudge a person, whether due to personality types clashing or behaviour traits unfamiliar to one person being seen as a negative behaviour with no supporting reason other than – it is not how they would do it. As they have already formed an opinion of dislike, for some people it is possible that crying ‘bully’ has become the easy (almost trendy) option to deal with situations of frustration, being caught out, being confronted and inability to respond to someone else’s confidence or directness.
It is quite easy for someone to come away from a confutation or disagreement (which they may have even instigated) feeling resentment - What then when they cry bully?
And what if the supposed ‘victim’ actually wants more than the situation to just stop – what if this person goes gossiping to all who will listen to their tail of being bullied with little motivation other than to get one back on someone else? Are they actually a ‘victim’ or have they become the indirect bully using diversionary tactics?
Bullying involves the tormenting of others through verbal harassment, physical assault, or other more subtle methods of coercion such as manipulation.
There is currently no legal definition of bullying.
In colloquial speech, bullying often describes a form of harassment perpetrated by an abuser having more physical and/or social power and dominance than the victim possesses. The victim of bullying is sometimes referred to as a target. The harassment can be verbal, physical and/or emotional.
This was taken from Wiklopedia... and I've found something new out today, there is no legal definition of bullying?? so Dambuster, yours was a very good question because I do not think there is a correct answer.
There is currently no legal definition of bullying.
In colloquial speech, bullying often describes a form of harassment perpetrated by an abuser having more physical and/or social power and dominance than the victim possesses. The victim of bullying is sometimes referred to as a target. The harassment can be verbal, physical and/or emotional.
This was taken from Wiklopedia... and I've found something new out today, there is no legal definition of bullying??
so Dambuster, yours was a very good question because I do not think there is a correct answer. Another thought is – when does taking the piss cross the line and become bullying?
Sometime this can be clear, although more often it can be extremely fuzzy.
Have you ever noticed some people who take the piss randomly (and will take it back from certain people) get the right hump when others fling some in their direction?
Is it that they dislike the piss-taking (behaviour) or is it that they dislike that person and so dislike them doing it?
Is it possible that claiming to feel ‘bullied’ has actually become a more attention/sympathy gaining alternative to saying “they piss me off”?
Sometime this can be clear, although more often it can be extremely fuzzy.
Have you ever noticed some people who take the piss randomly (and will take it back from certain people) get the right hump when others fling some in their direction?
Is it that they dislike the piss-taking (behaviour) or is it that they dislike that person and so dislike them doing it?
Is it possible that claiming to feel ‘bullied’ has actually become a more attention/sympathy gaining alternative to saying “they piss me off”?
It's really hard to actually define what bullying is because it's not neccessarily the _intention_ of the perperator/s to make the victim feel like shit, but the feeling of the victim is what makes bullying so nasty.
Bullying behaviour is easier to spot in schools because there is a lack of sophistication on the part of the perpetrators - it's much easier to see in the schoolyard than the staffroom, so to speak. Part of the problem with defining bullying behaviour in adults is that there are so many ways to make people feel bad. You can ignore them, pass snide commets, critisise to thier face or behing thier back in a way you know they will notice, and each act in and of itself may not be actual bullying but a culmination of acts can cause soemone to feel insecure and bad and no-one can pinpoint the cause - the victim can feel reluctant to speak out because there isn't a single act that they can pinpoint and it almost feels like you are imagining the whole situation - you are regularly 'forgotten' in work when people are making a brew, you are questioned on tiny points in your job but in a 'friendly' way that somehow still leaves you feeling like you can't do the job as well as everyone else... it's stuff you can't quite put your finger on but you just know they are doing it.
I'm not helping at all, am I? The Unions have whole documents and teams devoted to trying to combat bullying in the workplace, but it's still really hard to define and therefore prove and therfore stop. Then there is the fear of the whole 'grass' culture - if you say anything you are somehow a traitor.
Bullying behaviour is easier to spot in schools because there is a lack of sophistication on the part of the perpetrators - it's much easier to see in the schoolyard than the staffroom, so to speak. Part of the problem with defining bullying behaviour in adults is that there are so many ways to make people feel bad. You can ignore them, pass snide commets, critisise to thier face or behing thier back in a way you know they will notice, and each act in and of itself may not be actual bullying but a culmination of acts can cause soemone to feel insecure and bad and no-one can pinpoint the cause - the victim can feel reluctant to speak out because there isn't a single act that they can pinpoint and it almost feels like you are imagining the whole situation - you are regularly 'forgotten' in work when people are making a brew, you are questioned on tiny points in your job but in a 'friendly' way that somehow still leaves you feeling like you can't do the job as well as everyone else... it's stuff you can't quite put your finger on but you just know they are doing it.
I'm not helping at all, am I? The Unions have whole documents and teams devoted to trying to combat bullying in the workplace, but it's still really hard to define and therefore prove and therfore stop. Then there is the fear of the whole 'grass' culture - if you say anything you are somehow a traitor.
Quote by jaymar
I f a 'victim' feels abused, that is only their perspective. However working on the bases that we should all consider others feelings, that person is probably being abused.
.......but there are a lot of defendants in the dock who claim that society is abusing them.
They would, they've been stopped by society from doing what they shouldn't be doing! Having worked in this field before, I used to find it extremely amusing that 'some' defendants would try their best at "wrongful arrest" "police bullying" and the all time favourite "it wasn't me, they pick on me because of my past..."!! :shock:
Annoys the hell out of me because you do get innocent people locked up but the idiots have already laid the flippin foundations!
I was thinking about the guilty, not the innocent idiot. The ' I got no money, it not my fault.' lot, who then steal. Perhaps the 'I come from a broken home, I can break things.'
Quote by PoloLady
I would say that the only person who can really say whether it's bullying or not is the "victim". If they're feeling intimidated, victimised, bullied etc then they probably are being. If they don't feel that's the case then who has the right to tell them that's how they should be feeling.
I agree with this to a point, however, this principle does not acknowledge the influence, impact and affect of mindsets and personality types.
It is possible in some situations for people to prejudge a person, whether due to personality types clashing or behaviour traits unfamiliar to one person being seen as a negative behaviour with no supporting reason other than – it is not how they would do it. As they have already formed an opinion of dislike, for some people it is possible that crying ‘bully’ has become the easy (almost trendy) option to deal with situations of frustration, being caught out, being confronted and inability to respond to someone else’s confidence or directness.
It is quite easy for someone to come away from a confutation or disagreement (which they may have even instigated) feeling resentment - What then when they cry bully?
And what if the supposed ‘victim’ actually wants more than the situation to just stop – what if this person goes gossiping to all who will listen to their tail of being bullied with little motivation other than to get one back on someone else? Are they actually a ‘victim’ or have they become the indirect bully using diversionary tactics?
You know Polo you have an annoying habit.
You say what I want to better than I do. Whats more annoying, you normally say it first. Makes me look bad.
Therefore "Polo is a bully"
No just the only way I can get back at her for being so clever.
After all I have no good argument to support my own position.
Quote by jaymar
Bullying involves the tormenting of others through verbal harassment, physical assault, or other more subtle methods of coercion such as manipulation.
There is currently no legal definition of bullying.
In colloquial speech, bullying often describes a form of harassment perpetrated by an abuser having more physical and/or social power and dominance than the victim possesses. The victim of bullying is sometimes referred to as a target. The harassment can be verbal, physical and/or emotional.
This was taken from Wiklopedia... and I've found something new out today, there is no legal definition of bullying??
There may be no legal definition, but do we need one. Why create an offence of 'bullying' when we deal with the more serious from under assault laws. Even common assault is sometimes taken to court at public expence, if the victim is 'a vunerable person'. Court orders can be gained for other forms of abuse, breaches of which are punishable.
Do we need to re-invent the law yet again?
Sex God
Quote by
If I do not like someone, the way they act, the way they treat others I do not associate with them. Yes I know at time I have to, but when it is my choice I do not.
Are they bullying me, or I them.
How is that bullying, by either party?
Quote by Freckledbird
If I do not like someone, the way they act, the way they treat others I do not associate with them. Yes I know at time I have to, but when it is my choice I do not.
Are they bullying me, or I them.
How is that bullying, by either party?
Some may say it is.
Am I avoiding place because they intimidate me? No, but some people do avoid others because they are intimidated.
Would that be bullying?
Quote by PoloLady
I would say that the only person who can really say whether it's bullying or not is the "victim". If they're feeling intimidated, victimised, bullied etc then they probably are being. If they don't feel that's the case then who has the right to tell them that's how they should be feeling.
I agree with this to a point, however, this principle does not acknowledge the influence, impact and affect of mindsets and personality types.
It is possible in some situations for people to prejudge a person, whether due to personality types clashing or behaviour traits unfamiliar to one person being seen as a negative behaviour with no supporting reason other than – it is not how they would do it. As they have already formed an opinion of dislike, for some people it is possible that crying ‘bully’ has become the easy (almost trendy) option to deal with situations of frustration, being caught out, being confronted and inability to respond to someone else’s confidence or directness.
It is quite easy for someone to come away from a confutation or disagreement (which they may have even instigated) feeling resentment - What then when they cry bully?
And what if the supposed ‘victim’ actually wants more than the situation to just stop – what if this person goes gossiping to all who will listen to their tail of being bullied with little motivation other than to get one back on someone else? Are they actually a ‘victim’ or have they become the indirect bully using diversionary tactics?
I agree with you polo... guess I was just over simplifying things and assuming that the victim of the bullying was actually being bullied rather than crying wolf. Those who cry wolf to gain attention in order to get back at someone are in my opinion just incredibly sly bullies themselves.
Sex God
Quote by
If I do not like someone, the way they act, the way they treat others I do not associate with them. Yes I know at time I have to, but when it is my choice I do not.
Are they bullying me, or I them.
How is that bullying, by either party?
Some may say it is.
Am I avoiding place because they intimidate me? No, but some people do avoid other because they are intimidated.
Would that be bullying?
If they/you are intimidating someone else, then yes it IS bullying. Just avoiding someone because you don't like how they act or how they are with other people, isn't bullying (either by them or of them).
Quote by
I f a 'victim' feels abused, that is only their perspective. However working on the bases that we should all consider others feelings, that person is probably being abused.
.......but there are a lot of defendants in the dock who claim that society is abusing them.
They would, they've been stopped by society from doing what they shouldn't be doing! Having worked in this field before, I used to find it extremely amusing that 'some' defendants would try their best at "wrongful arrest" "police bullying" and the all time favourite "it wasn't me, they pick on me because of my past..."!! :shock:
Annoys the hell out of me because you do get innocent people locked up but the idiots have already laid the flippin foundations!
I was thinking about the guilty, not the innocent idiot. The ' I got no money, it not my fault.' lot, who then steal. Perhaps the 'I come from a broken home, I can break things.'
So was I, I meant that because they have cried wolf that many times, it has had a detrimnental affect on others who get to the dock who actually are innocent but use the same line if you know what I mean?
I have a gay friend who flirts with everyone. Men, women, straight or gay it's just the way he is. I've always found it amusing and sometimes flattering. However one of our group of friends told me it made him uncomfortable and that he thought it was a form of sexual harassment. I'd never consider that the gay man had actually fancied me but clearly the other man didn't like being the object of this kind of thing.
Quote by
Bullying involves the tormenting of others through verbal harassment, physical assault, or other more subtle methods of coercion such as manipulation.
There is currently no legal definition of bullying.
In colloquial speech, bullying often describes a form of harassment perpetrated by an abuser having more physical and/or social power and dominance than the victim possesses. The victim of bullying is sometimes referred to as a target. The harassment can be verbal, physical and/or emotional.
This was taken from Wiklopedia... and I've found something new out today, there is no legal definition of bullying??
There may be no legal definition, but do we need one. Why create an offence of 'bullying' when we deal with the more serious from under assault laws. Even common assault is sometimes taken to court at public expence, if the victim is 'a vunerable person'. Court orders can be gained for other forms of abuse, breaches of which are punishable.
Do we need to re-invent the law yet again
??????? Huh? nobody is saying we need to create a law, if you re read my bit it was taken from wiklo and I'd said I HAD LEARNT SOMETHING NEW today, I hadn't known there was no law with regard to bullying! You ask "do we need one".... well yes now you have asked the question, I'm afraid I think there should be one, would this not act as a deterrent?
As for your "even common assault is taken to court at public expense..." do you think that is wrong? I'm only asking that because it is assault at the end of the day regardless of how bad the assault is. "Happy slapping" as they call it is regarded as a type of common assault would you then think this was being prosecuted at public expense? You are confusing me :shock:
