A diagnosed paranoid pschysophrenic has been making my family's life horrendous for years, with threats and screaming at the house, etc. It has escalated recently where this person tried to grab my neices. The police say they cannot put him away unless he causes actual physical harm. Now we have heard that he actually tried to kill a stranger last week. The local mental health unit will not tell me anything, they say the client's confidentiality is priority. I actually saw this person driving around the town tonight.
HAs ANYONE please got any advice
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Anyone here with professional mental health knowledge?
Quote by Cherrytree
. The police say they cannot put him away unless he causes actual physical harm.
thats the police talking crap again..........
assault need not necessarily to include injury to be an assault
it is an offence to cause alarm , distress or harrassment.
there is anti-harrassment legislation that involves warning the individual first and thereafter prosecute.
i kow theyre meant to be servants of law and order, but its clear the copper who advised you here doesnt know his law.........
write to the duty inspector and ask him to investigate, with some priority " clear instances where alarm , distress or harrassment has been committed
ie. go over the officers head
Sometimes reporting things to several of the agencies that could be involved in a case, gets things acted on quicker than relying on one agency alone.
As others have said, keep a log of events. Rather than just reporting incidents to the police, also report them to Social Services, Local Council, and Mental Health Team...... the greater the number of relevant peoples informed, the greater the chance of the information being acted on.
Les x
As others have said, keep a log of events. Rather than just reporting incidents to the police, also report them to Social Services, Local Council, and Mental Health Team...... the greater the number of relevant peoples informed, the greater the chance of the information being acted on.
Les x
Quote by Cherrytree
A diagnosed paranoid pschysophrenic has been making my family's life horrendous for years, with threats and screaming at the house, etc. It has escalated recently where this person tried to grab my neices. The police say they cannot put him away unless he causes actual physical harm. Now we have heard that he actually tried to kill a stranger last week. The local mental health unit will not tell me anything, they say the client's confidentiality is priority. I actually saw this person driving around the town tonight.
HAs ANYONE please got any advice
The child protection agency
Many many thanks to all who have posted here. I have been in touch with the local mental health team again today, as usual all they say is "we will pass the information on to the care worker" . i may come back to some of u individually by pm, but Im very grateful to all who took the time to post.
thanks again,
cherry xxx
thanks again,
cherry xxx
Quote by Cherrytree
Many many thanks to all who have posted here. I have been in touch with the local mental health team again today, as usual all they say is "we will pass the information on to the care worker" . i may come back to some of u individually by pm, but Im very grateful to all who took the time to post.
thanks again,
cherry xxx
Write to them as well......... once they have recieved it in writing then they have to act (a phone call can be denied), as it will be logged, and they then have a professional responsibility if anything happens.
Les x
Sex God
Quote by pol2
under the mental health act a person can be detained(sectioned for 28 days) should they pose a threat to themselves or others. The police will not intervene in this section unless a crime is committed or they are asked to assist in the detention of the individual by the health authority.
You're forgetting the 136. Police detention to a place of safety (usually A&E) for the protection of the individual or others. The trouble is that the coppers have to see them doing something that is a risk.
If this guy has a care team they should be managing his case and monitoring him, I think they're your best option as they can involve his consultant/GP/ASW to arrange either a sec.2 or (more likely if he's know) a sec.3 stay at a hospital if he's going off.
Anything that seems like an immediate or imminent threat, call the police and that includes breach of the peace (like screaming at the house).
TBH It sounds like the copper had CBA syndrome (Can't Be Arsed).
Regarding your post:
The mental health unit will not give you any information because of client confidentiality, so this is a no go. Documents for a patient are not covered by the Freedom of Information Act so you could not request them this way from the hospital. However, you saving grace on this point maybe that the police have requested this information for themselves (they should have done), if the police have done this then they will have the information. You can then make a request for information from the police under the Freedom of Information Act for their file on the person and this should have the mental health unit’s information in it. This request will cost you £15 and it must be on the prescribed form which you can pick up from your local police station.
However, it must be noted that this request can be rejected by the police if it is not in public interest to give you the information (but I do not see why they should not provide you with this information). Obviously, if the police refuse there is a right of appeal which I will not go into here.
Regarding the police’s powers:
There are a number of offences that the man can be arrested for:
1. Assault: He could be arrested for common assault (often known as assault), he does not need to actually cause any harm for the offence but needs to put some person in fear of being assaulted there and then (so, for example a threat over the telephone would, in the main, not suffice).
2. Harassment: He could be arrested under the Protection from Harassment Act for causing harassment, alarm or distress to yourself or any other person. The problem with this is that under the Harassment Act he firsts needs to be warned by the police for his behaviour (so that he knows it is troubling you). If he then persists he can be arrested.
The problem with the above 2 offences is although they can be proved reasonably easily he would be arrested and then be out the next morning or later that day.
There are 2 more serious offences from your post:
1. Attempted Child Abduction; and
2. Attempted murder.
However, I do not know the circumstances of these and obviously the police would need enough evidence to arrest the man and charge him with the offence (statement’s from the witness’s would be an obvious start.
The police also have powers under the Mental Health Act to section the man (which is the best option). However, this requires a very high standard of proof with evidence from a psychiatrist. So this may be very difficult.
The final option would be to get an injunction, with a power of arrest attached to it out against the man; however, these are very expensive and are not really worth the paper they are written on. This is because the police do not have time to go arresting people for breaching their injunctions so don’t usually bother.
I used to be a legal adviser to the police (I was the sole legal adviser to the Domestic Violence Unit) and then I had enough trouble convincing them to do things so good luck in trying to get any action out of the police I know how difficult it can be.
The mental health unit will not give you any information because of client confidentiality, so this is a no go. Documents for a patient are not covered by the Freedom of Information Act so you could not request them this way from the hospital. However, you saving grace on this point maybe that the police have requested this information for themselves (they should have done), if the police have done this then they will have the information. You can then make a request for information from the police under the Freedom of Information Act for their file on the person and this should have the mental health unit’s information in it. This request will cost you £15 and it must be on the prescribed form which you can pick up from your local police station.
However, it must be noted that this request can be rejected by the police if it is not in public interest to give you the information (but I do not see why they should not provide you with this information). Obviously, if the police refuse there is a right of appeal which I will not go into here.
Regarding the police’s powers:
There are a number of offences that the man can be arrested for:
1. Assault: He could be arrested for common assault (often known as assault), he does not need to actually cause any harm for the offence but needs to put some person in fear of being assaulted there and then (so, for example a threat over the telephone would, in the main, not suffice).
2. Harassment: He could be arrested under the Protection from Harassment Act for causing harassment, alarm or distress to yourself or any other person. The problem with this is that under the Harassment Act he firsts needs to be warned by the police for his behaviour (so that he knows it is troubling you). If he then persists he can be arrested.
The problem with the above 2 offences is although they can be proved reasonably easily he would be arrested and then be out the next morning or later that day.
There are 2 more serious offences from your post:
1. Attempted Child Abduction; and
2. Attempted murder.
However, I do not know the circumstances of these and obviously the police would need enough evidence to arrest the man and charge him with the offence (statement’s from the witness’s would be an obvious start.
The police also have powers under the Mental Health Act to section the man (which is the best option). However, this requires a very high standard of proof with evidence from a psychiatrist. So this may be very difficult.
The final option would be to get an injunction, with a power of arrest attached to it out against the man; however, these are very expensive and are not really worth the paper they are written on. This is because the police do not have time to go arresting people for breaching their injunctions so don’t usually bother.
I used to be a legal adviser to the police (I was the sole legal adviser to the Domestic Violence Unit) and then I had enough trouble convincing them to do things so good luck in trying to get any action out of the police I know how difficult it can be.
As with everything in law, judge's opinions do differ. However, Harassment is a lot easier to prove than a lot of criminal offences, when I am in court with Harassment the chances of getting a conviction are far higher than with other criminal offences.
After the advent of the new Domestic Violence, Crime and Victims Act it can now be pretty much proven from just the victim's witness statement.
But obviously the criminal burden of proof still applies so the offence must be proved "beyond reasonable doubt".
Also, the offence is also triable only in the Magistrates Court and Magistrates are a lot easier to convince than a jury of 12 people.
The BIG PROBLEM with harassment is that it not really much of an offence and once it is proven more often than not the offender just gets a slap on the wrist.
After the advent of the new Domestic Violence, Crime and Victims Act it can now be pretty much proven from just the victim's witness statement.
But obviously the criminal burden of proof still applies so the offence must be proved "beyond reasonable doubt".
Also, the offence is also triable only in the Magistrates Court and Magistrates are a lot easier to convince than a jury of 12 people.
The BIG PROBLEM with harassment is that it not really much of an offence and once it is proven more often than not the offender just gets a slap on the wrist.
Quote by Cherrytree
A diagnosed paranoid pschysophrenic has been making my family's life horrendous for years, with threats and screaming at the house, etc. It has escalated recently where this person tried to grab my neices. The police say they cannot put him away unless he causes actual physical harm. Now we have heard that he actually tried to kill a stranger last week. The local mental health unit will not tell me anything, they say the client's confidentiality is priority. I actually saw this person driving around the town tonight.
HAs ANYONE please got any advice
Dear Cherrytree, you have been incorrectly advised. If this person is persistantly threatening and annoying your family you can have him arrested on a Harassment charge, the courts would then refer him to a pshyciatric expert for reports on his behaviour etc., there is no way you should be tolerating this at all. It is correct however that his files with the unit are confidential. I'm currently studying a degree in Social Care and one topic is mental health so if you need any more advice I can obtain from my tutors if you would like me to.
