Are things being taken too far ?

28 Nov 2007

Quote by annejohn
we should be thankful to live in a fairly secular society,but we still need to get religion less involved with our politics and especially with the brainwashing of our children which even happens in state schools as well as faith schools.

No, it doesn't.

28 Nov 2007

Quote by Freckledbird
we should be thankful to live in a fairly secular society,but we still need to get religion less involved with our politics and especially with the brainwashing of our children which even happens in state schools as well as faith schools.

No, it doesn't.
a well run good school doesnt,
imo

28 Nov 2007

Quote by Catcorb
on.
I don't believe freedom for freedoms sake. But if we didn't in the past stand up and say something is wrong we would have a swastika on the flag of Europe now.

That is inaccurate for so many reasons I don't know where to start. How about the US happily dealing with the Nazi regime, the UK trying not to get involved, the true horrors of their oppression not being realised until years after the conflict started, just to name a few? Oh, and of course the fact that like nearly all wars, "liberation" of oppressed people was as much a motive as a desire to see their art galleries free of charge.
And I do get so completely tired of one diseased Austrian's quest being somehow a justification to condemn other countries so 62 years after he put a bullet through his skull.

There was a thread on here a little while ago on female circumcision that is prevalent in parts of Africa and is happening here as well, your augment says it’s their culture so it’s ok. It’s wrong and we should say something. Inca tribes used to have human sacrifices. If they were still around that would be ok its part of their religion. What a load of bollox. You know it’s wrong, I know it’s wrong.

By my beliefs formed from growing up in a liberal western democracy, many many things appear wrong to me. I find stories such as this to be the more trivial tip of an iceberg full of utter unpleasantries perpetrated on man by man around the globe. By stating I can not and should not have any right to pervert the course of a foreign sovereign nations justice does not mean I support their laws, but means I respect their rights to make and keep them. Had you or I been born into an Inca tribe, we might be fully supportive of sacrifices, had we been born into an African society we might both hold to the idea of female circumcision. You are placing your views and ideology formed in a very different culture upon these situations.
To put it another way, I do not appreciate you stating as fact I am wrong, and stating I know I am wrong. But however unpalatable I find your attitude, I respect your right to have it. And however unpalatable I find the death penalty, theocratic regimes, etc, I understand that it is the right of the countries that practice them to be allowed to do so. I hope they reach "enlightenment" and agree with my values one day, but until then I'll have the sense not to break the ancient code "When in Rome, do as the Romans do". If the woman in this case had have stuck to that she would not now be facing any prosecution...

28 Nov 2007

How many times are we reminded by Islamic proponents that it's the religion of peace, understanding, tolerance and forgiveness and it's the West that is the big bad place.
Any sleight and they are up in arms, calling for death to the infidels yet see nothing wrong with their depiction of Jews as pigs and the subjugation of their own women.
Oh and we we won't talk about the Darfur massacre either, much better to threaten a woman with capitol punishment.
Our country has its faults but we can be proud of its hard-fought freedoms and tolerance.

28 Nov 2007

Quote by Freckledbird
we should be thankful to live in a fairly secular society,but we still need to get religion less involved with our politics and especially with the brainwashing of our children which even happens in state schools as well as faith schools.

No, it doesn't.[/quote
dont do nativity plays ?
and i thought that state schools had to have some kind of religious assembly by law. if that`s not the case then i will be so happy to be wrong.

28 Nov 2007

Quote by annejohn
we should be thankful to live in a fairly secular society,but we still need to get religion less involved with our politics and especially with the brainwashing of our children which even happens in state schools as well as faith schools.

No, it doesn't.
dont do nativity plays ?
and i thought that state schools had to have some kind of religious assembly by law. if that`s not the case then i will be so happy to be wrong.
How is a Nativity play any more brainwashing than the whole Christmas thing we see in shops and such? Yes, we have to do 'collective worship' but it's multi-faith - that's not brainwashing them either. We have 15 minutes a day in assembly and they aren't all about religion.
You're wrong.

28 Nov 2007

How can you call this civilisation? Our apathy will allow this to happen here... then where would a little fun swinging be...!!! Think, people, your minds are being warped.!

28 Nov 2007

a question:
Not sure if I heard correctly, but wasn't this woamn a christian missionary in a Muslim country?
Is that not a rather dangerous thing to be?
lp

28 Nov 2007

we know the rules and regs for muslin countries are somewhat strange but what would have happened if the teacher was a guy confused

:
do you think the parents would have complained
would we have heard about it as news :?:
i dont think the parents would have complained as women dont complain about a bloke or not allowed to and their husbands wouldnt complain about an 'educated' fella :!:

28 Nov 2007

will they collectively stone the whole class?
They chose the name after all
lp

28 Nov 2007

Her choice to live/work in that country. When in rome.....

28 Nov 2007

Quote by fabio
It depends on how you define the words extreme, because different cultures see things differently, for example...
I know there was an outcry over an incident where a 14 year old boy was found guilty of stealing a jacket from a store a few years ago.... the kid was suppose to be given 10 lashes of a cane...
In "Country A" where the incident took place... no outcry what so ever, in fact they were very supportive of the sentense passed..
However the kid was "Country B".... There was a huge amount made about it back in his "country" and caused an diplomatic incident...
I know this will cause a debate... but without revealing which countries it was.... did the punishment fit the crime???
when I come back from work this evening I'll tell you which ones it was.....
The reason why I brought this up is nothing is ever as "black and white" as it seems.... so would you say that ignorance of the laws of that country is an excuse?
I do believe it was a genuine mistake......

I said i would tell you what countries were involved in this when i got back from work....
Country "A" was Singapore..... not a 3rd world nation now.....
Country "B" was the United States..........

28 Nov 2007

I think the lady should have had more sense, she's not young and must have known she was doing wrong by their standards, surely confused

:
Plim :shock:

28 Nov 2007

I for one am shocked any one of you can agree she deserves this...
Now... there government has now agreed she should be charged. This is the same goverment who takes aid from us to feed the very people she was helping.. Without people like her going what would they have? She made a mistake... we have all made worse ones. To have this hanging over her is a disgrace.. barbaric and deserves a responce worthy of holding a British passport.. Protection!
Mike

28 Nov 2007

Quote by Freckledbird
we should be thankful to live in a fairly secular society,but we still need to get religion less involved with our politics and especially with the brainwashing of our children which even happens in state schools as well as faith schools.

No, it doesn't.
dont do nativity plays ?
and i thought that state schools had to have some kind of religious assembly by law. if that`s not the case then i will be so happy to be wrong.
How is a Nativity play any more brainwashing than the whole Christmas thing we see in shops and such? Yes, we have to do 'collective worship' but it's multi-faith - that's not brainwashing them either. We have 15 minutes a day in assembly and they aren't all about religion.
You're wrong.
no that proves i`m right, if our kids see religious stuff in shops and the street we can let them know it`s a fairytale or no more real than spiderman,or any other mythology. in school kids are expected to trust and believe what their teachers say.
dont forget that it`s what muslims,christians hindus et al who convince the CHILDREN that theirs is the true religion,whether or not they teach about any other faith. schools and governments should be totally secular as in france

28 Nov 2007

Faith schools are biased toward their own religion - others are multi-cultural. Kids aren't brainwashed.

28 Nov 2007

In reply to mdr2000.
The laws of other country's are thier's, if we choose to work/holiday in different country's we must abide by thier laws.

28 Nov 2007

I thought this was going to be a sensible thread, but some people need to chill out.
I don't think she deliberately meant to cause any offence. However she must've been naive not to think this could be mis-construed. She's being made an example out of by the authorities.
However, ignorance is no excuse.
Being British doesn't give anyone the right to think they can go to another country and break their law. Thankfully the days of the empire are over.
Its about time some of you realised this, and stopped waving your passport about. You sound just as bad as the extremists who want Britain to change its way of life.
There's more important things to worry about. Has anyone noticed the fuel price at the pumps?

28 Nov 2007

Quote by veejay
I thought this was going to be a sensible thread, but some people need to chill out.
I don't think she deliberately meant to cause any offence. However she must've been naive not to think this could be mis-construed. She's being made an example out of by the authorities.
However, ignorance is no excuse.
Being British doesn't give anyone the right to think they can go to another country and break their law. Thankfully the days of the empire are over.
Its about time some of you realised this, and stopped waving your passport about. You sound just as bad as the extremists who want Britain to change its way of life.
There's more important things to worry about. Has anyone noticed the fuel price at the pumps?

More important than someone possibly being lashed for giving a certain name to a teddy? WTF?

28 Nov 2007

Quote by Cherrytree
More important than someone possibly being lashed for giving a certain name to a teddy? WTF?

I hope she doesn't get lashed. I think they'll let her go if she apologises on national TV or something like that.
But at the end of the day she went to a foreign country and behaved in a way which showed disrespect to their way of life/laws.
And the reason we're paying high fuel prices is becoz our governments went into invade another country based on lies. It all comes down to us thinking we can do what we like to people in other countries.

29 Nov 2007

Quote by mdr2000
barbaric and deserves a responce worthy of holding a British passport.. Protection!
Mike

Pah, don't make me laugh.
Anyone remember the "Natwest 3"
They were British citizens living in Britain, but extradited to the US for allegedly committing a crime in Britain, against a British company based in London.
Why did Britain not prosecute them? Because there wasn't enough evidence. Did the Americans produce any evidence? Did they heck. Its about time you realised that the British govt can't really give a toss about its people or protecting their rights.
At the end of the day, if they're willing to hand over the NatWest 3, then whats the chance of them intervening for this woman?

29 Nov 2007

Quote by veejay
More important than someone possibly being lashed for giving a certain name to a teddy? WTF?

I hope she doesn't get lashed. I think they'll let her go if she apologises on national TV or something like that.
But at the end of the day she went to a foreign country and behaved in a way which showed disrespect to their way of life/laws.
And the reason we're paying high fuel prices is becoz our governments went into invade another country based on lies. It all comes down to us thinking we can do what we like to people in other countries.
OK. I'm totally in agreement with, if you go to another country, you abide by their laws or suffer the consequences.
I am not in any way knowledgeable about the Koran, my information is from a news site -
"There is no ruling in the Koran on images of Allah or the Prophet Mohammed.
Is does say the originator of the heavens and the earth... nothing like a likeness of Him"
I feel that, as has been said, the fact that this was a woman teacher has lead to a harsher potential treatment.

29 Nov 2007

Quote by Cherrytree
OK. I'm totally in agreement with, if you go to another country, you abide by their laws or suffer the consequences.
I am not in any way knowledgeable about the Koran, my information is from a news site -
"There is no ruling in the Koran on images of Allah or the Prophet Mohammed.
Is does say the originator of the heavens and the earth... nothing like a likeness of Him"
I feel that, as has been said, the fact that this was a woman teacher has lead to a harsher potential treatment.

I think its forbidden to draw picture of Allah/Mohammed. Also to insult either of them.
But this is a silly case where I reckon afew people are causing trouble. More than likely people are "getting their own back" for those Danish cartoons. I don't think we'll get Muslim people protesting against this woman, most will probably sympathise for her.
I still think they'll let her off after creating a scene and hoo-haa about the whole thing.
I don't think it made any difference her being a female. They'd have done it to anyone, she just got unlucky.

29 Nov 2007

i think its too many people stinking their noses in where its not wanted because it sells newspapers/media
media makes small comment
comment is reacted upon ( founded or not)
reactions fly
wars is mentioned in media
wars sells papers
meadia barons make money
QED

29 Nov 2007

Quote by veejay

OK. I'm totally in agreement with, if you go to another country, you abide by their laws or suffer the consequences.
I am not in any way knowledgeable about the Koran, my information is from a news site -
"There is no ruling in the Koran on images of Allah or the Prophet Mohammed.
Is does say the originator of the heavens and the earth... nothing like a likeness of Him"
I feel that, as has been said, the fact that this was a woman teacher has lead to a harsher potential treatment.

I think its forbidden to draw picture of Allah/Mohammed. Also to insult either of them.
But this is a silly case where I reckon afew people are causing trouble. More than likely people are "getting their own back" for those Danish cartoons. I don't think we'll get Muslim people protesting against this woman, most will probably sympathise for her.
I still think they'll let her off after creating a scene and hoo-haa about the whole thing.
I don't think it made any difference her being a female. They'd have done it to anyone, she just got unlucky.
What like this woman
i still find it funny that you think that anyone should abide by other countries laws when over there, when there isn't a law saying you can't call a teddy mohammed.
you call that breaking laws? and then you go on to say "Being British doesn't give anyone the right to think they can go to another country and break their law" Its not about being British? am i missing something here? its about children choosing a name for there toy, and if calling a teddy mohammed is so frowned upon and anyone working there (your words) should know this then why didn't the children that live there know this?

29 Nov 2007

Quote by Fun Scottish Couple
its about children choosing a name for there toy, and if calling a teddy mohammed is so frowned upon and anyone working there (your words) should know this then why didn't the children that live there know this?

Do children born and raised in this country know you have to apply for a license before protesting near parliament?
Imagine if a foreign teacher took a class where a political debate took place, which resulted in a vote that said teacher would protest about something (animal rights for example). The teacher, unaware of the law, then protested. Now, stupid as the law may or may not be, should this teacher be let off for being ignorant? Should the children be held as more responsible than the teacher by dint of their being born here?
Surely the issue at hand is about an adult making a mistake for which the adult is responsible. Trying to now shift the blame to the children seems a little, well, disingenuous.
And I can't help but wonder if this is raising so much fuss because it's a white British woman. Would it even have been newsworthy if it had been just another Sudanese teacher..?

29 Nov 2007

Quote by Shambolic
its about children choosing a name for there toy, and if calling a teddy mohammed is so frowned upon and anyone working there (your words) should know this then why didn't the children that live there know this?

Do children born and raised in this country know you have to apply for a license before protesting near parliament?
Imagine if a foreign teacher took a class where a political debate took place, which resulted in a vote that said teacher would protest about something (animal rights for example). The teacher, unaware of the law, then protested. Now, stupid as the law may or may not be, should this teacher be let off for being ignorant? Should the children be held as more responsible than the teacher by dint of their being born here?
Surely the issue at hand is about an adult making a mistake for which the adult is responsible. Trying to now shift the blame to the children seems a little, well, disingenuous.
And I can't help but wonder if this is raising so much fuss because it's a white British woman. Would it even have been newsworthy if it had been just another Sudanese teacher..?
Its called being interested in the welfare of a British NAtional....
Something you obviously couldnt give a flying fuck about rolleyes

29 Nov 2007

No its not because its a white british woman, its solely because its a woman.
But whats protesting near parliament got to do with giving a teddy a name? if calling a teddy mohammed is breaking their laws (not sure which law as noboby has showed it) surely calling you child mohammed is too, after all you don't name your toys, pets etc with names to disrespect anyone, you give them names you like.

29 Nov 2007

Its all very well saying to people "well if your in another country you have to abide by their laws"...but what about common sense...this is a UK law
It is an act of treason to place a postage stamp bearing the British king or queen’s image upside-down
so if our government started prosecuting people for doing this and i bet alot of people have...would it be acase of "ok i broke the law do what you have to do"....or would you hope common sense would step in...this woman is being made an example of of...and it amazes me some people can't see that.

29 Nov 2007

so the Sudanese consulate has been "dressed down" by Milliband. Don't make me laugh!
Bit like being mauled by a dead sheep IMHO.
We should issue the threat to immediately withdraw ALL foreign aid to this bunch of idiots if a single hair on this teacher's head is harmed and re-establish this Country as a World power.
The people of Liverpool (where the teacher hails from) are not given to the niceties of political correctness when one of their own is threatened in this way. The people of Sudan should be on notice that they will have overstayed their welcome if their Government does not intervene NOW and stop this stupidity.