Are we products of our environment?

27 Oct 2010

Topic is influenced bu another but, I think, deserves its own space.
The words "people taking responsible for their own decisions" is a well used coined phrase to most. Is that entirely true? Or does the environment they are in have a part to play? I think it most certainly does and I also believe that I cab act or do things, and yes even think things, beauase they are the way others say they are and in itself because I can find good enough arguement with it then that becomes acceptable to me.
For instance. I am a meat eater I enjoy meat. I do however when i think deep and hard enough about it feel that its fundamentally and morally wrong to slaughter animals for food in these days. In my life I can survive and thrive on non meat products easily enough. There is no need for me to be an omnivore. So what do I do about it? Nothing is my answer. I'm quite happy compromising my real feeling for the sake of my own enjoyment. Add this to the fact that its acceptable and approved of to most in society today means I can bury my head, not think about it and go about eating it because others say its OK to do so and i don't question it because it must be OK.
To me that makes me a product of the environment and because its acceptable then it's fine and dandy can ignore what I feel about it deep down because others sau its OK then i'll go with them and make do. am I wrong? Or am not taking responsibility for what deep down I feel I should d?
Bit of a waffle i know I just hope people can see the dilemma through it.
biggrin

27 Oct 2010

I don't eat meat. Everyone around me when I was a child eat meat. I do not know why I stopped as a child, a very young child, but I did. Most definitely not a product of my environment.

27 Oct 2010

I firmly believe that we are products of both our environment and our genetics. How much we are influenced and in which direction (for or against smoking for instance) varies enourmously from person to person - even within families. That variiation shows that we really don't know all the factors that influence us. I know my sis and I weren't so much anti-smoking, as disinterested. Both our parents smoked like chimneys as did our brother until recently. My brother and I are fascinated by family history while our sister can barely remember stuff from our shared childhood. So what, if anything, influenced us? No real idea.
What I do know for absolute certain is that, wherever the influences come from, one thing we all have is choice.
To claim that 'I couldn't help beating my wife, cos of my environment/genes' is just hiding from the fact that they could have chosen not to strike the woman they married.
It's all the same whether it's : being good at maths, smoking, violence, football, devoting your life to the care of others. The preference or talent may come from genes or exposure to environment, the choice whether to indulge those 'tendencies' in life is there to be made.
(I'm disregarding the tiny population of psychopaths and such like).

27 Oct 2010

Could argue that the 'product of the environment' bit is the fact you've questioned meat eating in the first place. Back yonder, when we all wore nowt but fur and ate meat, you would've been pointed at, laughed at, and tripped up and had flour and eggs chucked at you if they had been invented, for refusing to eat meat on cruelty grounds, not to mention starved lol

I don't know what the alternative is to eating meat, with what we do get out of it. I don't mean getting thorough enjoyment out of it :lol: I mean with the vitamins n stuff dunno

Is the alternative chomping down loads of pills, or can it be done naturally? :dunno:
Being less frivoulous, yeh, I think we are all a product of the environment - trouble is, is it to the detriment of culture? Are people so busy now, trying to get one up on everyone, trying to cripple everything with political correctness, that people are merging into clones with the same outlook?
Smoking is a classic one, although nowt to do with culture :lol: Not so long ago, you could not only smoke in pubs, but hospitals and places like that too :shock: At one point, it wasn't just acceptable to smoke, it was Cool!
Now if I light up a cigarette outdoors and certain people walk within 30ft of where I blew smoke 20 mins earlier - I get glared at, tutted at, coughed at - practically covered in flour and eggs, for being so disgusting confused

Skimpy clothes - the fact that it's acceptable to run around in hotpants/mankini (ok maybe still early days for the mankini, but it'll soon be 'the' thing to wear!) is a product of our environment. Some places it certainly isn't acceptable, far from it. So is it right or wrong to wear skimpy clothes? Kind of a product of culture as well as environment (was only a few years ago that it was saucy to show your ankle in Britain! :shock: ).

29 Oct 2010

There are no swingings in my family, that I know of.
No swinging as I grew up. May be there was something short of soft swinging in Wendy's female accommodation. A few of the ladies had men over night.
So how we got into it, was our choice.
Travis

29 Oct 2010

I would say that the idea that it is nature OR nurture is ridiculous. We are influenced by both.

29 Oct 2010

Mmmm, interesting thread (as many of Lost's are :thumbup smile

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I agree with Foxy when she says that it's a mixture. The argument about siblings being different is sometimes explained by the 'nurture over nature' supporters by using arguments along the lines of you are more experienced with your later children and therefore more relaxed etc.. This means that, unintentionally, you bring them up differently. I have even heard that whether it was a 'good' or a 'bad' pregnancy can make a difference.
Being the father of twin girls I can utterly refute this. Importantly, they are non-identical twins, so genetically they are merely sisters. However, being twins, they obviously had the same pregnancy in terms of 'good' or 'bad' and levels of stress etc. From a purely practical point of view they have been fed precisely the same food at precisely the same times and had exactly the same regime when it comes to bathtime, bedtime etc.. In short, they have been brought up identically and yet they are totally different - and have been since they were only a few weeks old.
One is totally pink and fluffy and as girly as a girly thing can be and seems to have no interest in books and reading - despite this being a very bookish household. The other is passionate about books and writing and simply refuses to wear a dress or skirt under any circumstances (we have had to buy her grey trousers for school). Where does that come from? Their own personality and, as parents, the greatest thing we can do is to let them be themselves.
Of course we DO impose certain values on them. They are brought up to be polite and considerate and tolerant of others, because those are the values that we believe are important. That is a deliberate policy and represents the 'nurture' part of the equation. We know we are imposing our chosen values on them and that is our right and responsibility as parents. We also need to give them the freedom (within those boundaries) to develop as human beings and to become their own people.
Recently, they were at 'Rainbows' (a junior version of the Brownies) and it was decided to plaster them all in make up. Our tomboy-ish twin refused (and we were not even present at the time) because she simply didn't want to do that. She was the only girl who didn't want to be made up and at only 5 years of age that showed a level of individuality that I had to admire. Her pink and fluffy sister jumped at the chance. That's part of their naure, not their nurture.
Who we are is a combination of our own inate personality and the environment we are brought up in and the values that are instilled in us at home and at school. So a combination of nature and nurture.
Will

31 Oct 2010

Nurture & Nature is always an interesting debate like Will and lost I too have twins, when they were born I was asked to join a study looking at nurture and nature which they have been part of for 14 years now "twins early development study" know as TEDS and their findings can be found
I have three children and I have never believed we can bring them up the same, or treat them the same, as every child is unique and has their own levels of needs and understanding.
Going back to lost's original post, we should gather our own information and make an informed choice about our own lives, and if you enjoy meat, eat it nobody shouldn't say otherwise.
If we all turned veggie we couldn't grow enough to supply everyone's needs wink

BTW just a thought there are a lot of couples on here I have spoken to in the past few years that are parents of twins are we all destine to become swingers? lol

31 Oct 2010

Deffo agree with the thread title.

1 Nov 2010

Quote by flower411
<snip> It kinda makes "nurture" a huge factor in their upbringing. If they were to act in an identical manner they may feel that they had to compete for your attention, but by acting completely differently they are able to split your attentions equally ...
Clever children ....... and by the sound of it .... good parents
It all made sense to me ....I think I could carry on writing for rather a long time on this particular subject

Well, they have been different since a few weeks old - long before they could have worked out how to do it to get attention - though, of course, that could be instinctive.
Then, of course their little brother is only 17 months younger than them so has been brought up alongside them - and he is very different again!
In short they are all little inidividuals and it's fascinating to watch their personalities develop.
I suspect we have years of interesting challenges and developments ahead of us.
Will

1 Nov 2010

We are parents of fraternal twin boys and a daughter 25months older, I would like to reiterate what Will said but cant because he did it in such a fine way. Thoroughly nodding in agreement with all he said.