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commercial events - should sh charge for advertising them?
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Sex God
The problem with more choice is that this is providing it and the chat numbers are falling. OK the 'membership figures' may be going up but lets be honest that's no less than bullshit to be frank. In my mind the fact that theres more choice is making the site to fractionalised and unwieldy but hey i'm possibly wrong. I know its hard to take back stuff once its given but its worth looking at why the site was so successful and why now the chatroom numbers are diminishing.
Is it that we're possibly heading for advertising crappolla being placed all over the site - you know lovehoney durex and ann summers banners next to every section of the site?
I really don't think pay - for - parties is acceptable. theres a distinct difference between paying a few quid for things to be arranged and paying tens of pounds in the hope of making cash. doesn't that then put things like expectation of sex into the minds of people paying that sort of money and that in turn puts pressure on those attending to provide. Would it not then just be open to hings such as hiring in a couple of girls (I know its girls i'm using as an example so its sexist but hey what the hell) then getting guys to pay 20/30 quid a throw. And making cash? OK i'm no law student but isn't that brothel keeping and living off immoral earnings for the holder of the party?
Socials/munches/housepartoes advertised on site should always be free or at organising costs only.
Is it that we're possibly heading for advertising crappolla being placed all over the site - you know lovehoney durex and ann summers banners next to every section of the site?
I really don't think pay - for - parties is acceptable. theres a distinct difference between paying a few quid for things to be arranged and paying tens of pounds in the hope of making cash. doesn't that then put things like expectation of sex into the minds of people paying that sort of money and that in turn puts pressure on those attending to provide. Would it not then just be open to hings such as hiring in a couple of girls (I know its girls i'm using as an example so its sexist but hey what the hell) then getting guys to pay 20/30 quid a throw. And making cash? OK i'm no law student but isn't that brothel keeping and living off immoral earnings for the holder of the party?
Socials/munches/housepartoes advertised on site should always be free or at organising costs only.
So given all the previous posts, does that mean thats its ok to make a profit from social events or not?
Making a 'few bob'? When we went to the social I mentioned in my previous post, it was announced that there would be 'nibbles' and a maximum of 20 packs of crisps were put out, thats all. That was the total outlay of the night as far as I can see. This member must have made about £500 that night, and these events were held monthly for some time. That in my view is taking the piss big time. We went along as we hadn't been to a social of its type before, and after being there, we made our choice not to go again.
Yes people do spend a lot of time organising events, and again it's their choice. When I hold my social events, which generally tend to be a four course dinner, entertainment and a lovely venue, then the people who come love it, and know that they are only paying for the meal and nothing else. They didn't pay me, they paid the venue for their ticket which covered the cost of the meal (a discounted cost too). Believe me, through choice, I spend an huge amount of time making my social events lovely, and I think those that attend will verify this.
But it still comes down to the question - do the guidelines set out by SH stand?
I reiterate my previous point - if I invited people into my home, they would be considered guests, and I would no more dream of charging them admission than flying to the moon. It's just another way for some people to make money out of the swinging fraternity. If you can't do it for the social aspect, then its not a social, its a money making venture.
Making a 'few bob'? When we went to the social I mentioned in my previous post, it was announced that there would be 'nibbles' and a maximum of 20 packs of crisps were put out, thats all. That was the total outlay of the night as far as I can see. This member must have made about £500 that night, and these events were held monthly for some time. That in my view is taking the piss big time. We went along as we hadn't been to a social of its type before, and after being there, we made our choice not to go again.
Yes people do spend a lot of time organising events, and again it's their choice. When I hold my social events, which generally tend to be a four course dinner, entertainment and a lovely venue, then the people who come love it, and know that they are only paying for the meal and nothing else. They didn't pay me, they paid the venue for their ticket which covered the cost of the meal (a discounted cost too). Believe me, through choice, I spend an huge amount of time making my social events lovely, and I think those that attend will verify this.
But it still comes down to the question - do the guidelines set out by SH stand?
I reiterate my previous point - if I invited people into my home, they would be considered guests, and I would no more dream of charging them admission than flying to the moon. It's just another way for some people to make money out of the swinging fraternity. If you can't do it for the social aspect, then its not a social, its a money making venture.
I must admit I to was a little confused to see someone advertising a social at their home and it was for profit.
I have organised many socials and was always made aware that I had to keep receipts to be available for anyone to look at to make sure we were not making a profit.
These socials are always at a venue so the 'door money' of was used to pay for the room,dj,bar staff, badges etc.
If the rules have now been changed should we all have not received some sort of notification to say so?
As pointed out, this now turns the event into a business venture so therefore should it not be goverened by the same rules as regs as any business?
Yes I know it is our choice whether or not we attend but it still grates a little after having it drummed into me on more than one occassion that we are not allowed to make a profit.
I have organised many socials and was always made aware that I had to keep receipts to be available for anyone to look at to make sure we were not making a profit.
These socials are always at a venue so the 'door money' of was used to pay for the room,dj,bar staff, badges etc.
If the rules have now been changed should we all have not received some sort of notification to say so?
As pointed out, this now turns the event into a business venture so therefore should it not be goverened by the same rules as regs as any business?
Yes I know it is our choice whether or not we attend but it still grates a little after having it drummed into me on more than one occassion that we are not allowed to make a profit.
I must admit I to was a little confused to see someone advertising a social at their home and it was for profit.
I have organised many socials and was always made aware that I had to keep receipts to be available for anyone to look at to make sure we were not making a profit.
These socials are always at a venue so the 'door money' of was used to pay for the room,dj,bar staff, badges etc.
If the rules have now been changed should we all have not received some sort of notification to say so?
As pointed out, this now turns the event into a business venture so therefore should it not be goverened by the same rules as regs as any business?
Yes I know it is our choice whether or not we attend but it still grates a little after having it drummed into me on more than one occassion that we are not allowed to make a profit.
I have organised many socials and was always made aware that I had to keep receipts to be available for anyone to look at to make sure we were not making a profit.
These socials are always at a venue so the 'door money' of was used to pay for the room,dj,bar staff, badges etc.
If the rules have now been changed should we all have not received some sort of notification to say so?
As pointed out, this now turns the event into a business venture so therefore should it not be goverened by the same rules as regs as any business?
Yes I know it is our choice whether or not we attend but it still grates a little after having it drummed into me on more than one occassion that we are not allowed to make a profit.
Sex God
Quote by Gillianthe1st
I must admit I to was a little confused to see someone advertising a social at their home and it was for profit.
I have organised many socials and was always made aware that I had to keep receipts to be available for anyone to look at to make sure we were not making a profit.
These socials are always at a venue so the 'door money' of was used to pay for the room,dj,bar staff, badges etc.
If the rules have now been changed should we all have not received some sort of notification to say so?
As pointed out, this now turns the event into a business venture so therefore should it not be goverened by the same rules as regs as any business?
Yes I know it is our choice whether or not we attend but it still grates a little after having it drummed into me on more than one occassion that we are not allowed to make a profit.
No rules have been changed at this time, regarding socials.
Sex God
At the moment as St3v3 has stated the rules have been bent for the event that has 'commercial event' written in it and will be reviewed.
Quote by Sarah
At the moment as St3v3 has stated the rules have been bent for the event that has 'commercial event' written in it and will be reviewed.
So any of us can advertise a social or munch as a commercial event?
Also how can someone just 'bend' rules, surely this then makes a mockery of said rules?
Quote by duncanlondon
how much commercialism is being developed in the swinging arena? at one time some of the fetish clubs had whole areas devoted to stalls full of kit. and the traders dominated the event.
Duncan I dont really care about the commercial side of it all, what I am saying is that it is in the rules that you can not make a profit from a social and now all of a sudden the rules have been 'bent' to allow someone to do so.
I am reffering to SH forum and rules and not fetish clubs or traders.
Sex God
Gillian
I refer you back to a post made by St3v3:-
I refer you back to a post made by St3v3:-
Quote by st3v3
A munch is non profit.
Quote by Sarah
Gillian
I refer you back to a post made by St3v3:-
A munch is non profit.
Sarah
I am talking about Socials not Munches, we had to change ours from a munch to a social because we supplied nibbles and held a couple of competitions, it is still held in a private function room but is a social, as is the one that is being advertised on the 'Lets meet up' page, its a social but is for profit.
SH has been a commercial venture now since Dec 2005 and will continue to evolve accordingly I guess. The site owners sensed an opportunity and bought it for a reason. They wouldn't be good business people if this wasn't the case. In the same way that not many of us would you to do their job and not make money from it, I'd assume neither do they.
Actually, am I allowed to ask, how did Symbiosis stumble across this place?
Actually, am I allowed to ask, how did Symbiosis stumble across this place?
Orgasminator
Quote by BIoke
SH has been a commercial venture now since Dec 2005 and will continue to evolve accordingly I guess. The site owners sensed an opportunity and bought it for a reason. They wouldn't be good business people if this wasn't the case. In the same way that not many of us would you to do their job and not make money from it, I'd assume neither do they.
Actually, am I allowed to ask, how did Symbiosis stumble across this place?
Think you missed the point... Its not about sh charging us to use the site... Its on about them charging people to advertise money making events as in ones that dont just cover costs...
Sex God
Quote by two-4-more
SH has been a commercial venture now since Dec 2005 and will continue to evolve accordingly I guess. The site owners sensed an opportunity and bought it for a reason. They wouldn't be good business people if this wasn't the case. In the same way that not many of us would you to do their job and not make money from it, I'd assume neither do they.
Actually, am I allowed to ask, how did Symbiosis stumble across this place?
Think you missed the point... Its not about sh charging us to use the site... Its on about them charging people to advertise money making events as in ones that dont just cover costs...
To my knowledge to date they have not charged people to advertise anything on this site.
Sex God
Quote by Sarah
At the moment as St3v3 has stated the rules have been bent for the event that has 'commercial event' written in it and will be reviewed.
The rules have been "being bent" for some time now...
Quote by Gillianthe1st
how much commercialism is being developed in the swinging arena? at one time some of the fetish clubs had whole areas devoted to stalls full of kit. and the traders dominated the event.
Duncan I dont really care about the commercial side of it all, what I am saying is that it is in the rules that you can not make a profit from a social and now all of a sudden the rules have been 'bent' to allow someone to do so.
I am reffering to SH forum and rules and not fetish clubs or traders.
Sorry to highlight this bit but....I will refere you to the AUP, where it clearly states...
" Swinging Heaven have the right to change the AUP at anytime without prior notice to its members, Ops or Mods.
Swinging Heaven have the right to withdraw membership without notice or explanation.
Swinging Heaven's decision on any matter set out in this AUP shall be final ".
So when you join this site those are the rules and as a commercial business whether we like it or not, SH can change anything they like at any time.
Then once again people have the same choice....stay or leave.
Sex God
Quote by Steve
At the moment as St3v3 has stated the rules have been bent for the event that has 'commercial event' written in it and will be reviewed.
The rules have been "being bent" for some time now...
There have been no reports / abuse reports of the 'being bent' rules submitted, in recent months.
?Clearly you are suggesting that something 'amiss', could you either submit an abuse report / or support ticket to admin, with your evidence or send me a pm if you would prefer.
Thank you
When all said and done, if no one goes to any paid event, they will flop :thumbup:
A social should be a place to meet old friends and new. It ruins the whole concept of having a laugh with me mates when I'd have to pay way over the odds for it.
Advertise whatever you like if St3v3 allows it, I not lining someones pocket.
When things become too costly, I'll just arrange my own cheap/free events :grin:
A social should be a place to meet old friends and new. It ruins the whole concept of having a laugh with me mates when I'd have to pay way over the odds for it.
Advertise whatever you like if St3v3 allows it, I not lining someones pocket.
When things become too costly, I'll just arrange my own cheap/free events :grin:
Sex God
Quote by Dawnie
I don't mind people making money on an event but more than a few pounds to cover costs, I won't be going.
I also wonder if you are paying for a commercial event, if that means the place has health and safety guidelines and insurance in case anything went wrong
My biggest hope is that allowed commercial events will not reduce the free/cheap socials and munches that we have now
If they reduce any further there wont be any full stop. I may be looking in rose tinted past times glasses but when we first arrived here it seems there were nearly always 3-4 munchs on the board and a lot of socials.
As everyone can see from our signature we are hosting a Munch along with Nimbus. I would not dream of charging for it thats not what this was about when we came to the site. Munchs were something you give to the community for free for whatever reason from my point of view on this occasion it is because we see very little life in the South west swinging community social wise.
For certain Mrs Tweeky and I wouldn't go to paid for events where is a clothes off affair and suspect I would only be prepared to pay a bear minimum like £2 for social. From organizing the below I can tell that anything more than that then they will start to rake it in.
Quote by two-4-more
Think you missed the point... Its not about sh charging us to use the site... Its on about them charging people to advertise money making events as in ones that dont just cover costs...
No, I didn't. I meant charging for anything related to the site that makes them money. Like I and others have said, it's a commercial venture now. If it were my business I'd make money in whatever way I could.
ok can I just clear up here why I object to this.
We are not objecting to SH charging us for being here nor would we object to SH charging people for advertising on the site.
What we are objecting to is.............. Someone is advertising a social event at their home and charging £20 per couple for attending........... The rules state that these are non profit making events and all receipts should be available for anyone to inspect in case we do make any profit.
Socials and not Munches, Advertising for making a personal Profit not SH making a profit.
I hope this clears it up, and Yes I know you have a choice but it is still against the rules of this site............ unless of course they are being 'bent' for some reason or other, if that is the case then it should be one rule for one and one rule for all.
(Edited cos I put a line in that didnt make sense when I re read it)
We are not objecting to SH charging us for being here nor would we object to SH charging people for advertising on the site.
What we are objecting to is.............. Someone is advertising a social event at their home and charging £20 per couple for attending........... The rules state that these are non profit making events and all receipts should be available for anyone to inspect in case we do make any profit.
Socials and not Munches, Advertising for making a personal Profit not SH making a profit.
I hope this clears it up, and Yes I know you have a choice but it is still against the rules of this site............ unless of course they are being 'bent' for some reason or other, if that is the case then it should be one rule for one and one rule for all.
(Edited cos I put a line in that didnt make sense when I re read it)
i think the situation is all too easy to disprove any profit making venture. i mean 20 quid? thats enough to cover any nibbles and drinks. any money left over could easily be spent on cab fares or an industrial clean if someones had an 'accident'. so there wouldn't be any 'profit'. at that price its a realistic costing to cover any expenses.
and who's going to want to turn up to the party and make enquiries about receipts etc?
and who's going to want to turn up to the party and make enquiries about receipts etc?
Orgasminator
Quote by Sarah
SH has been a commercial venture now since Dec 2005 and will continue to evolve accordingly I guess. The site owners sensed an opportunity and bought it for a reason. They wouldn't be good business people if this wasn't the case. In the same way that not many of us would you to do their job and not make money from it, I'd assume neither do they.
Actually, am I allowed to ask, how did Symbiosis stumble across this place?
Think you missed the point... Its not about sh charging us to use the site... Its on about them charging people to advertise money making events as in ones that dont just cover costs...
To my knowledge to date they have not charged people to advertise anything on this site.
nope sh havent charged anyone. what was being suggested was this :-
If people are going to be allowed to make money of others from the site, by charging £20 to go to someones house to have party, and by doing so make a profit - that sh should charge the organisers for advertising it, and by making money from doing so, either enhance the site further or pass on the income to members by reducing membership fee's. This may boost the site with new members or get some to return due to more affordable costs. Everyone wins.
Orgasminator
Quote by duncanlondon
i think the situation is all too easy to disprove any profit making venture. i mean 20 quid? thats enough to cover any nibbles and drinks. any money left over could easily be spent on cab fares or an industrial clean if someones had an 'accident'. so there wouldn't be any 'profit'. at that price its a realistic costing to cover any expenses.
and who's going to want to turn up to the party and make enquiries about receipts etc?
£20 per male or couple could at a stretch be said to cover food and drink if all were provided by the party host, however the add does not state that that will be the case, as for industrial clean... bottle of stardrops , sponges/cloths £1 bit of elbow grease £0
at the end of the day if sh wants to allow it fine, just make them advertise it in a different forum for "businesses" and "comercial events" not in the socials as socials by definition of site rules should be none profit making.
Orgasminator
Quote by BIoke
Think you missed the point... Its not about sh charging us to use the site... Its on about them charging people to advertise money making events as in ones that dont just cover costs...
No, I didn't. I meant charging for anything related to the site that makes them money. Like I and others have said, it's a commercial venture now. If it were my business I'd make money in whatever way I could.
Sorry i do think you are still missing the point, no-one is saying that sh shouldn't charge for things... they are on about supposedly normal members charging other members for attending socials... i.e. the member is charging and making the profit not sh.
The original post was to ask a question about whether seeing as though sh seem to be "bending" the rules to allow this to happen, whether they should charge the member who will be making the profit for advertising it and if they should, how they could go about it.
My initial suggestion was to charge for individual ads, lets say £10 per add. this is based on them charging £20 per male person, in an average size house you could get 40ish people in, so that would make £400 profit if say 5 fems, 10 cpls and 10 males turned up. (cples being charged £20 as they have a male in them... as posted in the add in question.)
another idea that came to me today was this -
There are other sites that have commercial memberships, they cost more then public memberships but allow you to advertise events that you will profit from. So if somoene wants to do comercial socials they pay say £300 for a years membership, as long as there is no need for an industrial cleaner (as duncan suggests) the do one or two partie and its clear profit all the way...
