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Could You Kill?

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Interesting discussion.
For anyone who thinks they could easily kill, which predominantly appears to be justified by the motivation of protection, I have some questions. But I don't know how to anser them.
How would you do it? In the heat of the moment with what? And do you think it would all end quickly and tidily?
With the probability of a botched killing on your hands, would you attempt to save them or finish them off spectacularly with some weird object?
Could you actually just go and a kill anyone? Probably not.
confused
Quote by duncanlondon
Interesting discussion.
For anyone who thinks they could easily kill, which predominantly appears to be justified by the motivation of protection, I have some questions. But I don't know how to anser them.
How would you do it? In the heat of the moment with what? And do you think it would all end quickly and tidily?
With the probability of a botched killing on your hands, would you attempt to save them or finish them off spectacularly with some weird object?
Could you actually just go and a kill anyone? Probably not.
confused

If we were to answer your questions, would it then be deemed to have been premeditated?? I would think retaliating to protect a loved one would not be premeditated therefore your questions could not be answered. In the scenario of protecting someone you would most probably do whatever by whatever means and at that time no thought would have gone into it. What do you think?
I wouldn't like to think that I could....
I have served in the army... and thankfully was not in a position to have to know about killing for sure.
I haven't met anyone that has killed who didn't regret it.. (aside from those labelled mentally ill)
I can think of situations that I would struggle in. I can think of many situations where my emotions have been such that I have frightened myself with their intensity. But I am unable to say categorically what my emotions would be like in any given circumstance.
I actually hope that I would not be able to kill anyone. :shock:
Quote by jaymar
Interesting discussion.
For anyone who thinks they could easily kill, which predominantly appears to be justified by the motivation of protection, I have some questions. But I don't know how to anser them.
How would you do it? In the heat of the moment with what? And do you think it would all end quickly and tidily?
With the probability of a botched killing on your hands, would you attempt to save them or finish them off spectacularly with some weird object?
Could you actually just go and a kill anyone? Probably not.
confused

If we were to answer your questions, would it then be deemed to have been premeditated?? I would think retaliating to protect a loved one would not be premeditated therefore your questions could not be answered. In the scenario of protecting someone you would most probably do whatever by whatever means and at that time no thought would have gone into it. What do you think?
I asked because many people feel they would in the event of protection of loved ones. Its not premeditated murder, but it does signify the willingness to be ready for such an event. So it could be considered that it was an opportunity to indulge in killing, if people looked at it in that way. If you consider the Kenneth Noye case where he turned a road rage incident into the opportunity to kill someone. He is a nutter obviously.
So I'm not sure I would be so definite about what I would do. And being reasonable about defending would probably not include killing as the first resort. Apart from whcih in most circumstances it may not be possible to perform a killing successfully.
No, I couldn't.
H.x
Quote by splendid33
I haven't met anyone that has killed who didn't regret it.. (aside from those labelled mentally ill)

I'm not sure regret is the word I'd personally use but it will effect different people in different ways.
If killing was the only way to protect my loved ones, then yes, without question.
However, I would like to think that I'd only use the necessary force- but if that wasn't possible in the circumstances then so be it.
Life is precious- and the lives of my (or anyone elses) innocent loved ones more precious than the life of someone who could/would do them intentional harm.
Yes to both and i probably wouldn't regret it but the fem half of srne couldnt hurt a fly although im still bloody terrified of her when she shouts and she's half my size yikes :shock: lol
As others have pointed out, this is an interesting hypothetical question - but not one that any of us is likely to have to face in reality. I hope.
I found 's post was the one that resonated most with me - but it raises a different question. Could I kill in cold blood? No, I don't think I could. Admittedly I have never been in the forces (I don't think the cadets counts in this instance!) so I have not received the required level of training. However, I think being part of a firing squad would trouble me for the simple reason that the person I am being asked to kill has never done me any personal harm. As I say, training might make a difference.
As for protecting my children, I am sure I would do anything. At least, I hope I would. If someone was about to hurt my children (or any other close member of my family) I suspect that I would simply 'lash out' with whatever came to hand - bare hands if necessary. That might well result in the death of the aggressor, but that would not have been my aim or intention. For that moment I would have been concerned only with preventing harm from coming to those who depend on me - there would have been no 'thought' in it at all. Rendering the person unconscious would have been sufficient, but I wouldn't have that level of control. I also have no doubt that the effects afterwards would be pretty severe (uncontrollable shaking, nausea etc.) and I would have thought that recurrent nightmares were very likely.
A more disturbing question is do we have the capacity to kill those who are not a direct threat to us or our loved ones? Despite many of us saying that we couldn't kill except to protect our nearest and dearest, if that were really true then wars would be far rarer and more short-lived than they actually are. War brutalises people and the moral boundaries are vastly different from normal life. In such situations can any of us be really sure that we would keep our morals and our perspectives intact? Or would we be swept along with the tide and end up as killers ourselves? Sadly, I think we all have the capacity to do that. If that wasn't the case, then history would be rather different.
Will - sorry, didn't mean to get that heavy.
If my children/family were at risk then instinct would probably take over and I would, however in reality I hope that I never face that situation.
Otherwise ... no I could never take a life ... whilst the person themselves may "deserve" it (a word I use for lack of better), do the family and friends of that person deserve grief and heartbreak?
Cx
Quote by poshkate
the question I think really is whether you could actually act it out in real life..........its all well and good firing off emotions saying that you could do it........but seriously until you know the full details of a situation there is no way you can tell.......

... which is what I was saying ... it's all well and good everyone jumping in and saying, 'Hell, yeah! I'd kill the scumbag with no hesitation to save a loved one, and then go off for a nice cuppa tea' ... but it's completely hypothetical and the reality would doubtless be very different and who knows what you'd do then? We all imagine we'd act decisively as it's easier to think that way, but for all you know, you might be scared shitless, frozen to the spot and piss yourself ...
The problem with hypotheticals like this is they are posed in such a way that there is only one answer ...
That's not saying nobody has a valid opinion, just that I think what people imagine they'd do, may not be what they'd do in real life ...
well surely the hypothetical question should be............
" what sort of reason would you need to kill another human?"
J3diMast3r has a good point - which I wanted to allude to in my original post, but it was already far too long! redface
I don't think that killing another human being is at all easy, and the very idea fills me with dread. However, I do see how perfectly reasonable actions for the protection of my family might result in the death of someone else, even though that wasn't the intention.
I am not of the 'Hell yeah, I'd kill the scumbag' school. One of my passions is medieval history, which was a truly violent time. I have stood on battlefields and tried to imagine coming face to face with the opposition. The idea of bringing a sword or battleaxe down on someone else's skull is a truly horrific one. I suspect that I would flinch and, therefore, have a VERY short life expectancy on the battlefield. surprisedops:
In many ways, I suppose that makes me a coward - but I am just trying to be honest. As I tried to intimate in my original post (badly, as usual), I am concerned by the thought that perhaps we CAN all become killers. I find that rather chilling.
Will
Quote by willxx69
J3diMast3r hs a good point - which I wanted to allude to in my original post, but it was already far too long! redface

He does indeed
I don't think that killing another human being is at all easy

Dont be so sure Will, the actual circumstances and act of taking someones life can be made extremely easy, what comes after it is where the problems can arise, even those circumstances were there was no other choice and someone else's life has been saved, there can be some pretty devestating affects on the person responsible for the death both mentally and emotionally.
could i kill?
yes!
without hesitation, no question, in less than a heartbeat, if it was my last available option? i could kill someone stone dead, and mop their brains up before the police arrived, if i REALLY had to?!
anyone who tells you different is either sorely lacking in imagination, or a complete liar! :P someone tries to kill me, i'm gonna do my damnedest to kill 'em first? sad
i don't have kids, but if i found someone my daughter, and i had a gun in my hand, i'd blow his feckin' 'ead off! i'd shoot him stone dead. i'd no doubt have to argue in court about why i had a gun in the first place, and we can argue about the rights and wrongs of bullets in the head if you like, but i really wouldn't think twice about it. i'd quite happily get lifed off for it, and repent at my leisure, as would most parents, i imagine? dunno
if someone puts my windows through, and tries to get in my house, i'll first of all blow my whistle, and scream "Police . . . . POLICE" in a dead high-pitched, abject terror, girlie kinda way . . . . and then, as a last resort, stove his feckin''ead in, simple as!
((( been there . . . done that . . . he's trying to climb though me window, and the girl i love with everything i have is sleeping in the next room . . . . if i have to kill him to protect her, i'm gonna kill him? luckily i bottled him out, and managed to avoid the whole 'picks up skull fragments' thing? :P )))
Quote by DeSade
In theory...
Because it is easier to say "yes I could do it" (an automatic protection response) than it would be to actually carry out the act and live with the consequences afterwards.

i think you'd find the theory rapidly becomes practice when it all comes on top! someone has a gun in yer face, you'll do everything in your power to kill him, no matter how abhorrent to your moral compass? 15 years in a 12 by 6 box, or my mam / sister in a casket 6 foot under? no brainer that one! ;)
i'd die for my family and loved ones . . . . God knows, i'd kill for 'em!
neil x x x x ;)
I am of the opinion you can sit down in a safe environment and calmly think about what you would do… logically weighing up the pro’s and con’s and using a large proportion of your brain to make that hypothetical choice of whether you could or couldn’t. You may try to use imagination. You may try to compare the hypothetical situation with previous experiences. The best you will come up with though is a hypothetical answer.
In unexpected or unfamiliar highly stressful/terrifying situation it is not always those conscious/logical parts of the brain that take control… for many people it is more likely to be the primitive brain that overrides all normal thinking and it has one purpose… to keep you alive. This part of the brain has no logic, no emotion, no pausing to work out what to do. It makes your heart race to increase blood flow, along with making sure your intake of oxygen increases. It decides if you need to be pumped full of adrenaline. It prepares you to fight or get the hell out of there. It acts independently from your conscience, so if it trips into action… you can forget what you planned to do (well come to think of it you WILL forget what you planned to do without giving any consent to yourself to do so). One more important thing… it’s not always consistent in what it makes you do.
The primitive brain will make one person run, one person fight and another freeze to the spot they are standing. It may kick in partially or fully. It may take control for a second or two or longer.
So until you have the confidence that you can control your primitive brain in such a situation, it is not really possible to say what you would actually do by using the logical bit.
Whilst it was not a situation where a family member was about to be killed, I can think of a situation which I did experience where what I thought I would do and what I found myself doing turned out to be two completely different things:
I was driving a vehicle which ended up being pushed across two lanes, by a lorry impacting the nearside, and placing me in front of an oncoming truck. I had a split second vision of the truck heading towards me not stopping and pushing the engine through, trapping my legs. Logic tells me in that situation to get out of the way, jump out of the door before the oncoming vehicle hits. What actually happened was I found myself just sitting there but (and god knows how I did it) with my knees up to my chin and my feet on the seat. I thought I had been sitting like that for no more than a second or two. I don’t remember the truck stopping at all. First thing I was aware of was a guy tapping on my door asking if I was alright (with my legs up on the seat). He was actually the truck driver of the oncoming vehicle who had stopping and had time to get out and come to my vehicle. He’d asked me if I was alright several times before I even heard him.
I certainly wouldn't have guessed that this is what I would have done.
Then there is the term ‘red mist’, often used in relation to road rage - where people find themselves doing something incredibly aggressive or even violent without fully realising what they are doing, until they are doing it or have done it.
So I guess sitting here with no pressure, no stress, no danger and all the time we need to think about what we would do… with the best imagination in the world… it is not happening, so at best all we can do is guess.
The scenario of protectivity seems the first port of call in 'justifying' the ability to unleash one's killing instincts. but this it also includes self preservation as well.
Many people will kill in an emergency situation, to try and get out of a crisis. Its the instinct to survive at any cost. its not information that gets put about but unfortunately it can happen during fire emergencies, being trapped in confined spaces, during group suffocations. Nasty indeed..
hide behind a strong woman aand have the white ready for surrender biggrin
Could I kill ????
I think if my loved ones were in danger of dying/being killed then yes I could..
Or if my own life was on the line then Ithink I could do it..
Best ask Shireen see what she says lol
Quote by Steve_Mids
Best ask Shireen see what she says lol

I am not saying a word :giggle:
Quote by PoloLady
In unexpected or unfamiliar highly stressful/terrifying situation it is not always those conscious/logical parts of the brain that take control… for many people it is more likely to be the primitive brain that overrides all normal thinking

Well said pololady, I know this is a differnt scenario but it is also a good example.
I used to do saloon car racing and one of the main things you have to overcome in order to drive a car at 100% on a track is to your control your survival instincts, when the car starts to slide, brain says back off, but you need to keep the car balanced and push through. when an incident occurs 30 yards infront of you, brain says turn and brake which will send you spinning into the incident, you need to drive straight at it, a judge a way round. almost all your survival instincts are completely wrong on a race track, and a good chunk of learning to race is to overcome these instincts and learn to control your mind, breathing, heart rate etc, and to stay calm and calculated rather than making instinctive reactions.
And on the subject of could i kill, probably, but hopefully it would never occur, i would like to think in that scenario that i could bring the assailant down without the actual need to kill.
Interesting question, and strangly enough I was in a situation a couple of years ago when something happened within my personal life. If I had or if I ever did find this person I would kill them without hesitation.
Could I kill them, again yes without hesitatioin. I did not have to think about it, I just knew that I would be capable and I would still do it now.
I was always taught 'revenge is a dish best served cold' if I ever find the person that hurt my loved one I would take revenge
Sorry I know its a radical but thread hit a raw nerve with me
no not intentionally there are very few cases where there is no alternative, and I don't think I could knowingly do it, extreme force yes but killing on purpose no. Not sure I could live with myself. A mercy killing on the other hand .... possibly
Absolutely - after being in a horrible position once I made the concious decision that, in any event where it's a choice between us getting into serious danger and them being killed then it would ALWAYS, and I do mean ALWAYS, be them.
At the end of the day, in my opinion, the minute a person decides to comit a crime against an individual then he has forfeited his right to the standard protection which we give each other.
Will you are correct. Time at war does change you. You are also wrong, even with certain death and no way out other than to kill there are some that still can not kill.
A man who will run through a hail of bullets to save a friend, still can not kill. Even a man who can not kill will exchange his life for another. Being able to kill is not the mark of a man. Being able to stand up for one's friends and justice is the mark of a man.
...and my opinion as to why wars last so long? It is because we can not kill. Think about it the first battle, 90% die on one side 80% on the other. How could anyone live with casualty figures on that scale.
Travis.
Quote by PoloLady
I certainly wouldn't have guessed that this is what I would have done.

Another good point.
One evening I was putting some bit and bobs in the compost bin, like I do most days after cooking dinner. It was dark and the rear half of my garden has a 3 foot high picket fence around it and has a pathway running along the back of it.
Anyway all of a sudden a man came out of nowhere and ran past followed closely by a shouting policman. In my rational mind I would have thought that I would have done something other than stand there - but I didn't. I was actually so frightened that I was totally physically frozen to the spot. It's something I'd never experienced before or since, I was literally scared stiff.
If I'd been asked what I'd do hypothetically in that situation I would have maybe said that I'd try and grab the running man or something similar. Never did I think that I'd respond the way I did.
Quote by Kiss
I certainly wouldn't have guessed that this is what I would have done.

Another good point.
One evening I was putting some bit and bobs in the compost bin, like I do most days after cooking dinner. It was dark and the rear half of my garden has a 3 foot high picket fence around it and has a pathway running along the back of it.
Anyway all of a sudden a man came out of nowhere and ran past followed closely by a shouting policman. In my rational mind I would have thought that I would have done something other than stand there - but I didn't. I was actually so frightened that I was totally physically frozen to the spot. It's something I'd never experienced before or since, I was literally scared stiff.
If I'd been asked what I'd do hypothetically in that situation I would have maybe said that I'd try and grab the running man or something similar. Never did I think that I'd respond the way I did.
...but next time what will you do?
Have you not been told that if you meditate, shock is reduced.
Quote by
I certainly wouldn't have guessed that this is what I would have done.

Another good point.
One evening I was putting some bit and bobs in the compost bin, like I do most days after cooking dinner. It was dark and the rear half of my garden has a 3 foot high picket fence around it and has a pathway running along the back of it.
Anyway all of a sudden a man came out of nowhere and ran past followed closely by a shouting policman. In my rational mind I would have thought that I would have done something other than stand there - but I didn't. I was actually so frightened that I was totally physically frozen to the spot. It's something I'd never experienced before or since, I was literally scared stiff.
If I'd been asked what I'd do hypothetically in that situation I would have maybe said that I'd try and grab the running man or something similar. Never did I think that I'd respond the way I did.
...but next time what will you do?
Have you not been told that if you meditate, shock is reduced.
I do actually meditate on death as is suggested. (I am Buddhist) The idea being that in an ideal world, even if you suffer a terrible accident and are about to die you do not feel any distress, which helps with a better/smoother transition onto the next life.
Carrying on the Buddhist theme if I may, if I had been going about my activities with full consciousness and paying attention to what I was doing I would have heard the man coming and not been so frightened. However I was probably thinking about work or dinner or whatever and ‘away with the fairies’.
Civilisation or progress or whatever you call it, but 2 hundred years ago it was quite normal to have to defend one's self and many of these instincts were right up front in the process.
Quote by duncanlondon
Civilisation or progress or whatever you call it, but 2 hundred years ago it was quite normal to have to defend one's self and many of these instincts were right up front in the process.

When exposed to the probability of killing on a regular basis, we are hardened to it.