Walk in crime has gone up 300% in a some town in south England. X has been released from prison again. Within three days of his release reports started to be made. Unattended bags stolen, purses emptied. All crimes X is well know for, and gone to prison for many times. It is only a matter of time before enough evidence is found at a scene to put X back inside.
Which costs us more;
holding him in prison, paying for men and space to stop X steeling or
letting him steel.
Is it a matter of which costs more? Is it a matter of do the crime do the time? Has putting X in prison stopped him offending?
The only time X does not offend, offend against the public is when he is in prison. Do we need a more permanent solution?
Travis
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Crime is up again!
Sex God
Off with his hands.
lets see him lift a purse now.
lets see him lift a purse now.
I'm afraid our justice system is far too soft because we don't have the facilities to lock them up right now. If they're not just getting a slap on the wrist, they're locked up for a few months and let out, usually to reoffend and the whole process starts again. With the pool tables, satellite tv etc etc, prison is not seen as a punishment anymore.
I would introduce a boot camp style of punishment for younger offenders and first timers( remember Bad Lad's Army? ) Give them 6 months of that kind of treatment and teach them some respect for authority. They also need a harsh lesson in what effect their actions have on their victims.
Anyone reoffending is sent to prison for 2 years. No cushy lifestyle, no parole - 2 years and no less. Everytime they reoffend, the sentence is doubled. That should be deterrent enough when they're suddenly facing a 8 year stretch for nicking a car but these days, that's all a gets ( out in 4 for 'good' behaviour
)
More serious crimes, longer first time sentences. Premeditated murder, paedos and serious sex offenders - lock them away and throw away the key.
The day my late Dad was admitted to a hospice, my Mum came home to find she'd been burgled and he took everything that was irreplacable - jewellery that my Dad had bought her in all their 49 years of marriage. He died 2 weeks later not knowing what had happened. The devastation and utter heartbreak my Mum went through during that time was totally unforgivable. They caught the guy about a year later after he robbed a post office and he admitted doing my Mum's house, amongst many others. He had been on the run all that time after escaping prison. He got 4 years ffs!
I'm not a violent person in the least but I could quite happily do some serious damage with a baseball bat to that guy and still sleep at night :x
I don't care WHY they steal. MY property is MINE and no one has the right to come and take it away from me. I may have very radical views on crime and punishment and I don't give a flying fart about offenders' human rights. As far as I'm concerned, they waive those rights when they break the law.
I would introduce a boot camp style of punishment for younger offenders and first timers( remember Bad Lad's Army? ) Give them 6 months of that kind of treatment and teach them some respect for authority. They also need a harsh lesson in what effect their actions have on their victims.
Anyone reoffending is sent to prison for 2 years. No cushy lifestyle, no parole - 2 years and no less. Everytime they reoffend, the sentence is doubled. That should be deterrent enough when they're suddenly facing a 8 year stretch for nicking a car but these days, that's all a gets ( out in 4 for 'good' behaviour
) More serious crimes, longer first time sentences. Premeditated murder, paedos and serious sex offenders - lock them away and throw away the key.
The day my late Dad was admitted to a hospice, my Mum came home to find she'd been burgled and he took everything that was irreplacable - jewellery that my Dad had bought her in all their 49 years of marriage. He died 2 weeks later not knowing what had happened. The devastation and utter heartbreak my Mum went through during that time was totally unforgivable. They caught the guy about a year later after he robbed a post office and he admitted doing my Mum's house, amongst many others. He had been on the run all that time after escaping prison. He got 4 years ffs!
I'm not a violent person in the least but I could quite happily do some serious damage with a baseball bat to that guy and still sleep at night :x I don't care WHY they steal. MY property is MINE and no one has the right to come and take it away from me. I may have very radical views on crime and punishment and I don't give a flying fart about offenders' human rights. As far as I'm concerned, they waive those rights when they break the law.
Fair enough Sassy.
Victims of crime suffer enormously and I sympathise.
But if we work on the whys we often find the hows.
I dont look on people as good or bad, I just look on people as people.
Given the lifestyle choices of the population of these forums I am often surpised at the prejudice and lack of compassion expressed in posts.
Victims of crime suffer enormously and I sympathise.
But if we work on the whys we often find the hows.
I dont look on people as good or bad, I just look on people as people.
Given the lifestyle choices of the population of these forums I am often surpised at the prejudice and lack of compassion expressed in posts.
Quote by benrums0n
Given the lifestyle choices of the population of these forums I am often surpised at the prejudice and lack of compassion expressed in posts.
My compassion is zero when it comes to people who get their kicks or money from making other peoples' lives hell. I agree with NN that most of them are drug addicts and yes, this does need addressing but it shouldn't be used as an excuse or reason for breaking the law.
I may have harsh opinions about certain subjects and while I'm normally very broad-minded and generally a compassionate person there are certain things that my views are totally immovable on and I will always take a tough stance on this one
Quote by benrums0n
Given the lifestyle choices of the population of these forums I am often surpised at the prejudice and lack of compassion expressed in posts.
sorry but i fail to see what a swinging life style choice has to do with being a theif?
To be honest i have always been one that believes everyone does something for a reason and the root of that reason has to found and cured before you can even hope to put someone back on the 'str8 and narrow' but all because we are swingers that dont mean we have to accept some pople are theifs :?
I am happy to disagree with you sassy as Im sure you are to disagree with me.
Suffice to say there are plenty of folk who would hold an immovable view that this site and the activities it supports are wholly wrong.
But u r right. Im sure some of the girls on Streatham high road selling themselves to get enough to score their first fix at in the morning think swinging is abhorrent.
Suffice to say there are plenty of folk who would hold an immovable view that this site and the activities it supports are wholly wrong.
But u r right. Im sure some of the girls on Streatham high road selling themselves to get enough to score their first fix at in the morning think swinging is abhorrent.
Quote by naughtynymphos1
Given the lifestyle choices of the population of these forums I am often surpised at the prejudice and lack of compassion expressed in posts.
sorry but i fail to see what a swinging life style choice has to do with being a theif?
To be honest i have always been one that believes everyone does something for a reason and the root of that reason has to found and cured before you can even hope to put someone back on the 'str8 and narrow' but all because we are swingers that dont mean we have to accept some pople are theifs :?
I'm with NN on this one. We're here to swing. Swinging doesn't create victims.
The problem with compassion is you cant learn how to do it very easily.
One of the reasons is that those lacking in compassion always seem to have the easy obvious answers and shout them very loudly. Such answers rarely work. If they did we wouldnt be looking for new answers. It is difficult to listen when you are shouting.
I try to put myself in other people shoes and walk a few miles. My prejudice was that those who live a life style that others often judge would be more inclined to do the same. I was wrong, my prejudices often are.
One of the reasons is that those lacking in compassion always seem to have the easy obvious answers and shout them very loudly. Such answers rarely work. If they did we wouldnt be looking for new answers. It is difficult to listen when you are shouting.
I try to put myself in other people shoes and walk a few miles. My prejudice was that those who live a life style that others often judge would be more inclined to do the same. I was wrong, my prejudices often are.
Sex God
Does compassion have limits though? I think it does. As has pointed out in his initial post 'X' is a serial offender. In and out of Jail time and time again for repeat offences. Has he then forfeited his right to freedom and an amount of compassion? I think so.
Now I consider compassion discretionary with thought. You can tailor compassion with good sense and logic as well as heart. It isn't something you have no control over acting upon, though of course feeling it is different.
Back on topic, maybe there is ways that we can change the system for people like this. Lifer open prisons/ life tagging implants possibly. Forced labour, (not extreme)chain gangs. It might be worth looking at cost effective, as opposed to present jail costs, solutions. There must be a myriad of options possible from cleaning up pigeon poo in trafalgar square to land mine clearing in East Asia. How about some ideas? Extreme or mundane - but original?
Now I consider compassion discretionary with thought. You can tailor compassion with good sense and logic as well as heart. It isn't something you have no control over acting upon, though of course feeling it is different.
Back on topic, maybe there is ways that we can change the system for people like this. Lifer open prisons/ life tagging implants possibly. Forced labour, (not extreme)chain gangs. It might be worth looking at cost effective, as opposed to present jail costs, solutions. There must be a myriad of options possible from cleaning up pigeon poo in trafalgar square to land mine clearing in East Asia. How about some ideas? Extreme or mundane - but original?
There must be a myriad of options possible from cleaning up pigeon poo in trafalgar square to land mine clearing in East Asia.
Walk that way , I will follow!
The drug of choice for X is alcohol. In the past he has been dried out in prison, still he comes back, taking the easy money.
Talking of which, it is easy money. Doors left open, money on display. Can we blame the victim? I have come across people who seem to be victims three or four times over.
Can I pull together some themes?
X has been given light sentences, it failed.
X has been dried out in prison, he started drinking again.
X has been given longer sentences, it failed.
X has been released on probation, it failed, he committed offences on probation.
X knows he is going to be caught, he still offends.
Has a continuing offender, society has tried to understand, treat, and punish X at various times. He still offends, still cost Britain money, still contributes nothing to the land he was born to.
What do we do with him?
X has been given light sentences, it failed.
X has been dried out in prison, he started drinking again.
X has been given longer sentences, it failed.
X has been released on probation, it failed, he committed offences on probation.
X knows he is going to be caught, he still offends.
Has a continuing offender, society has tried to understand, treat, and punish X at various times. He still offends, still cost Britain money, still contributes nothing to the land he was born to.
What do we do with him?
Quote by
Can I pull together some themes?
X has been given light sentences, it failed.
X has been dried out in prison, he started drinking again.
X has been given longer sentences, it failed.
X has been released on probation, it failed, he committed offences on probation.
X knows he is going to be caught, he still offends.
Has a continuing offender, society has tried to understand, treat, and punish X at various times. He still offends, still cost Britain money, still contributes nothing to the land he was born to.
What do we do with him?
Le guillotine... send him to the gallows! let's have a bit of public entertainment. The local town hall could pass round a collecting tin and reduce the Council Tax from the proceeds...
There you are.. two issues resolved in one!
Quote by benrums0n
The problem with compassion is you cant learn how to do it very easily.
One of the reasons is that those lacking in compassion always seem to have the easy obvious answers and shout them very loudly. Such answers rarely work. If they did we wouldnt be looking for new answers. It is difficult to listen when you are shouting.
I try to put myself in other people shoes and walk a few miles. My prejudice was that those who live a life style that others often judge would be more inclined to do the same. I was wrong, my prejudices often are.
I understand what you're saying Ben but it basically comes down to the difference between right and wrong at the end of the day. It's one of the first lessons I ever learned from my parents and the first one I taught my own sons.
I have plenty of compassion for those who deserve it. I do think a lot of criminals need help where drugs/drink abuse is involved but it still shouldn't soften the sentence.
Do the crime, do the time
Quote by GnV
Can I pull together some themes?
X has been given light sentences, it failed.
X has been dried out in prison, he started drinking again.
X has been given longer sentences, it failed.
X has been released on probation, it failed, he committed offences on probation.
X knows he is going to be caught, he still offends.
Has a continuing offender, society has tried to understand, treat, and punish X at various times. He still offends, still cost Britain money, still contributes nothing to the land he was born to.
What do we do with him?
Le guillotine... send him to the gallows! let's have a bit of public entertainment. The local town hall could pass round a collecting tin and reduce the Council Tax from the proceeds...
There you are.. two issues resolved in one!
Guillotine, all that blood to clean-up, nowadays, with AID. No! Put him in a glass tank of pure helium. Just for a laugh. Quote by
Can I pull together some themes?
X has been given light sentences, it failed.
X has been dried out in prison, he started drinking again.
X has been given longer sentences, it failed.
X has been released on probation, it failed, he committed offences on probation.
X knows he is going to be caught, he still offends.
Has a continuing offender, society has tried to understand, treat, and punish X at various times. He still offends, still cost Britain money, still contributes nothing to the land he was born to.
What do we do with him?
Le guillotine... send him to the gallows! let's have a bit of public entertainment. The local town hall could pass round a collecting tin and reduce the Council Tax from the proceeds...
There you are.. two issues resolved in one!
Guillotine, all that blood to clean-up, nowadays, with AID. No! Put him in a glass tank of pure helium. Just for a laugh.Still charge for a public display though!
Quote by GnV
Can I pull together some themes?
X has been given light sentences, it failed.
X has been dried out in prison, he started drinking again.
X has been given longer sentences, it failed.
X has been released on probation, it failed, he committed offences on probation.
X knows he is going to be caught, he still offends.
Has a continuing offender, society has tried to understand, treat, and punish X at various times. He still offends, still cost Britain money, still contributes nothing to the land he was born to.
What do we do with him?
Le guillotine... send him to the gallows! let's have a bit of public entertainment. The local town hall could pass round a collecting tin and reduce the Council Tax from the proceeds...
There you are.. two issues resolved in one!
Guillotine, all that blood to clean-up, nowadays, with AID. No! Put him in a glass tank of pure helium. Just for a laugh.Still charge for a public display though!Have you considered pay to view TV, or selling the rights to Sky?
Quote by
Can I pull together some themes?
X has been given light sentences, it failed.
X has been dried out in prison, he started drinking again.
X has been given longer sentences, it failed.
X has been released on probation, it failed, he committed offences on probation.
X knows he is going to be caught, he still offends.
Has a continuing offender, society has tried to understand, treat, and punish X at various times. He still offends, still cost Britain money, still contributes nothing to the land he was born to.
What do we do with him?
how about a sentence that protects the public from this . ...Imprisonment for Public Protection (IPP) sentences.
might i suggest some research?i found a link which sets out the basics. the problem however is that it is reliant upon courses being provided ( cost) and the aptitude of the person concerned.
i think this is a good idea in principle...
it is clear however that many people not connected with the Criminal justice system seem to think these laws havnt been introduced and that nothing is being done.
whether the right thing is being done to cure the problem is another thing i tend to think many people might take a different view on how things are /should be if they had a few facts other than the information they pick up from the press.
sorry folks bet you think i am some type of reactionery string them up biggot!....but......
if you teach a child that actions have consiquences and that the punisment is worse than the crime they quickly learn to behave in a civilised manner and this then lasts thro their life!
if you let them get away with minor infractions they will push the envelope!
if you punnish them today for doing X because you are having a bad day (period work life ect) ad leave them off for doing X tomorrow because your in a good mood you teach them that strenth is power and can do as it likes!
so if you want to solve this problem punish the parents and make the punishment suit the crime!
I hate to say this as i have always thought that it is better that 100guilty men go free than 1 innocent man hang!...but bring back the birch and the rope
beat a man while drunk high or just angry and have the flesh stripped from your back with a whip kill a man and die!
sos for man read person of any age gender or colour!
or at last bring back corporal punishment in schools! and protect our teachers!!
if you teach a child that actions have consiquences and that the punisment is worse than the crime they quickly learn to behave in a civilised manner and this then lasts thro their life!
if you let them get away with minor infractions they will push the envelope!
if you punnish them today for doing X because you are having a bad day (period work life ect) ad leave them off for doing X tomorrow because your in a good mood you teach them that strenth is power and can do as it likes!
so if you want to solve this problem punish the parents and make the punishment suit the crime!
I hate to say this as i have always thought that it is better that 100guilty men go free than 1 innocent man hang!...but bring back the birch and the rope
beat a man while drunk high or just angry and have the flesh stripped from your back with a whip kill a man and die!
sos for man read person of any age gender or colour!
or at last bring back corporal punishment in schools! and protect our teachers!!
Sex God
With the pool tables, satellite tv etc etc, prison is not seen as a punishment anymore.
it never was effective punishment sassy. the loss of liberty has always been nothing more than an occupational hazard for the career criminal, and that is precisely why prison does not work. it does nothing whatsoever to address offending behaviour. it is probably the most costly, but least effective solution available, and yet despite the fact that our government knows this full well, they still keep trotting out the same old tired nonsense that building more prisons will somehow make everything ok in the end.
X has been given light sentences, it failed.
X has been dried out in prison, he started drinking again.
X has been given longer sentences, it failed.
X has been released on probation, it failed, he committed offences on probation.
X knows he is going to be caught, he still offends.
Has a continuing offender, society has tried to understand, treat, and punish X at various times. He still offends, still cost Britain money, still contributes nothing to the land he was born to.
What do we do with him?
try solutions that actually work, as opposed to just removing those failed by society, from society, and sticking them in a 12 by 6 foot box?
n x x x ;)
try solutions that actually work, as opposed to just removing those failed by society, from society, and sticking them in a 12 by 6 foot box?
I have tried to stay out of this thread but can't.
Here is a true story for you.
I work in a cab office in a busy part of london and there is a drunk tramp that hangs around the area, he's been hanging around for years. Alot of the drivers(including me) buy him food on a regular basis, we don't give him money because he spends it on booze.
Last year he was beaten up badly and spent about a month in hospital. When he came out he was sober and social services put him into his own flat. This is the THIRD time this has happened.
Within a week he was back on the drink again and last week an ambulance came for him EVERY night. Whilst the ambulance is attending to him there could be someone dying of a heart attack who needs the ambulance more.
You can only help those who want to help themselves. We must draw the line somewhere.
My personal opinion is that this drunk tramp should be put down, radical I know, but how long can we keep trying to help him?.
I have tried to stay out of this thread but can't.
Here is a true story for you.
I work in a cab office in a busy part of london and there is a drunk tramp that hangs around the area, he's been hanging around for years. Alot of the drivers(including me) buy him food on a regular basis, we don't give him money because he spends it on booze.
Last year he was beaten up badly and spent about a month in hospital. When he came out he was sober and social services put him into his own flat. This is the THIRD time this has happened.
Within a week he was back on the drink again and last week an ambulance came for him EVERY night. Whilst the ambulance is attending to him there could be someone dying of a heart attack who needs the ambulance more.
You can only help those who want to help themselves. We must draw the line somewhere.
My personal opinion is that this drunk tramp should be put down, radical I know, but how long can we keep trying to help him?.
Master of Sex
Quote by browning
try solutions that actually work, as opposed to just removing those failed by society, from society, and sticking them in a 12 by 6 foot box?
I have tried to stay out of this thread but can't.
Here is a true story for you.
I work in a cab office in a busy part of london and there is a drunk tramp that hangs around the area, he's been hanging around for years. Alot of the drivers(including me) buy him food on a regular basis, we don't give him money because he spends it on booze.
Last year he was beaten up badly and spent about a month in hospital. When he came out he was sober and social services put him into his own flat. This is the THIRD time this has happened.
you want to execute unfortunates who are already living terrible lives?
surely this can`t be a serious post?
Within a week he was back on the drink again and last week an ambulance came for him EVERY night. Whilst the ambulance is attending to him there could be someone dying of a heart attack who needs the ambulance more.
You can only help those who want to help themselves. We must draw the line somewhere.
My personal opinion is that this drunk tramp should be put down, radical I know, but how long can we keep trying to help him?.
The traditional approaches just dont work. One definition od madness is doing the same things and expecting a different result.
I think society has to accept that some people are simply unable to function independently as part of society. Traditional gaol doesnt work for these people.
Once we have accepted this reality its a simple step to establish care homes, for the want of a betetr word,where peopel are made to work and live in a heavily regulated environment. Not a prison but a place where you can be cared for and grow and probably heal.
Bloody hell I sound like the old hippie i am again.
I think society has to accept that some people are simply unable to function independently as part of society. Traditional gaol doesnt work for these people.
Once we have accepted this reality its a simple step to establish care homes, for the want of a betetr word,where peopel are made to work and live in a heavily regulated environment. Not a prison but a place where you can be cared for and grow and probably heal.
Bloody hell I sound like the old hippie i am again.
