We are all aware now of the outcome of that terrible case where poor Ellie lost her life by a dog mauling her.
Do you think there should be stronger laws governing dangerous dogs? Do you think there should be stricter rules about owning pitbulls? Or do you think people should be more careful around dogs?
Just lately there has been more and more news of people being mauled by pit bulls. Another little girl in our area was hurt just this week. I think, and I'm sorry if this offends anyone, the time has come for these dogs to be destroyed completely. There needs to be a total ban on ANYONE owning these dogs fullstop, before anyone else gets hurt or worse, killed.
People say it's not the dogs that are the problem but the owners, I'm sorry but if it's inbred in the dog and that's their nature, nothing will stop them harming. Yes, to a certain degree the owner should take extra care when out walking with dogs. We have dogs (not pit bulls mind) and when we go out they are ALWAYS on their leads, under no circumstances will we allow them off their leads. They are the most lovely natured dogs but I wouldn't 100% trust any dog even my own.
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Dangerous Dogs
I agree with you on parts jaymar. To be honest tho there are other dogs which have infliced harm including death such as rottweilers, a while ago a 5 month old baby was killed by one. So although I agree that the dogs covered by the dangerous dogs act are dangerous there are still a few breeds which arn`t covered which maybe should be!. I doubt tho that any of the dangerous dogs covered will be "got rid of" completly.
I for one had never heard of 3 out of the 4 dogs covered by the act in this country!!.
This link shows the dogs covered if anyone is unsure what dogs they are.
We don`t have a dog ourselves however my mum does and he is a big german sheppard (police dog trained) but as daft as a brush. I would never trust him 100% around my two girls neither would my mum or stepdad even tho he was brought up around kids from a young age.
Hope this makes sense to somone else bar me
I for one had never heard of 3 out of the 4 dogs covered by the act in this country!!.
This link shows the dogs covered if anyone is unsure what dogs they are.
We don`t have a dog ourselves however my mum does and he is a big german sheppard (police dog trained) but as daft as a brush. I would never trust him 100% around my two girls neither would my mum or stepdad even tho he was brought up around kids from a young age.
Hope this makes sense to somone else bar me
Sex God
Sorry Mar, I'm one of those people who think it's down to the owner. Yes, some dogs are bred for certain purposes. Doesn't mean they all have to be good at it. This is the 'nature versus nurture' debate for dogs. They might be genetically predisposed to a certain characteristic, but if the owners don't encourage that, it's less likely to become a problem.
I think certain dogs have a reputation and will always draw media attention. I've known rottweilers, dobermanns (parents have two), pit bulls, all of which had lovely temperaments but people were scared of them just because of their breed.
As a child, we lived next door to people who had a Jack Russell - it bit off their grandchild's finger one day. An aunt of MrFB had a red setter that attacked her. I know of a spaniel that savaged a pet rabbit. As far as I'm aware, they aren't known for being dangerous dogs. Had they been pit bulls or rottweilers, maybe the stories would have made the newspapers. But they didn't.
Oh, and I'd never leave a baby or small child unattended with any dog, or cat for that matter.
I think certain dogs have a reputation and will always draw media attention. I've known rottweilers, dobermanns (parents have two), pit bulls, all of which had lovely temperaments but people were scared of them just because of their breed.
As a child, we lived next door to people who had a Jack Russell - it bit off their grandchild's finger one day. An aunt of MrFB had a red setter that attacked her. I know of a spaniel that savaged a pet rabbit. As far as I'm aware, they aren't known for being dangerous dogs. Had they been pit bulls or rottweilers, maybe the stories would have made the newspapers. But they didn't.
Oh, and I'd never leave a baby or small child unattended with any dog, or cat for that matter.
Quote by Freckledbird
Sorry Mar, I'm one of those people who think it's down to the owner. Yes, some dogs are bred for certain purposes. Doesn't mean they all have to be good at it. This is the 'nature versus nurture' debate for dogs. They might be genetically predisposed to a certain characteristic, but if the owners don't encourage that, it's less likely to become a problem.
I think certain dogs have a reputation and will always draw media attention. I've known rottweilers, dobermanns (parents have two), pit bulls, all of which had lovely temperaments but people were scared of them just because of their breed.
As a child, we lived next door to people who had a Jack Russell - it bit off their grandchild's finger one day. An aunt of MrFB had a red setter that attacked her. I know of a spaniel that savaged a pet rabbit. As far as I'm aware, they aren't known for being dangerous dogs. Had they been pit bulls or rottweilers, maybe the stories would have made the newspapers. But they didn't.
Oh, and I'd never leave a baby or small child unattended with any dog, or cat for that matter.
Jack Russells are the most vicious dog I have come across, just as well they are not bigger.
In general I consider it is the owners that need controlling. A dog is a killer, man now feeds them, but the instinct to kill is still there.
Sex God
Quote by
Jack Russells are the most vicious dog I have come across, just as well they are not bigger.
In general I consider it is the owners that need controlling. A dog is a killer, man now feeds them, but the instinct to kill is still there.
Humans have to kill animals to eat them (unless they are vegetarian)- we don't just wait for them to die then eat them. Doesn't make us all killers. I don't think I could eat something I'd killed - never had to do it.
And not all Jack Russells are vicious. Same for pit bulls/rottweilers/etc. I agree with you that it's the owners who need controlling.
Banning certain breeds of dog, will only encourage people to buy others with an inclination to be nasty. I've seen more and more people with Akitas; they are also known to be nasty - and they are more commonly the breed of choice for younger blokes who want to look 'hard'. Well, they are around here anyway.
Sex God
Sorry, it's 100% down to the owner. It is up to the owner to be responsible, with everything from choosing the most appropriate breed for their circumstances, to training that dog to behave politely in society, to managing the dog in whatever way necessary if that individual animal turns out to be a little shithead... as we sometimes get in the best of families ha ha.
It must be remembered that even the cutest cuddliest dogs are born potentially wild animals and socialisation with humans and other animals is vital from the earliest age. It is down to the breeder first and then the owner to ensure this happens. Or else there is a shithead dog, no matter what the breed. I say all this as the owner of four dogs. One had socialisation problems when she was a baby cos her breeder did not do enough to socialise her. She had a slight aggression problem with other dogs, never with humans. But it was managed by proper socialisation and not giving up on her. She is fine now btw. But in someone else's hands, she may well have become a nasty dog.
I read somewhere, can't recall where, that pit bulls are way down on the list of dogs most likely to bite. I suppose when they choose to they can cause a lot of damage in a short time. If my Yorkie decides to take a strop it would be slightly different than if a 50lb pit bull or a 80lb rottie decided to take pot shots at you. But even so, even toy breeds can cause nasty injuries if they really want to.
Sooooooo......... yeah, though some breeds are bred for a certain function, the people who CHOOSE to own and manage these dogs should take FULL responsibility.
Should the law be stricter? Not on the dogs, no.
It must be remembered that even the cutest cuddliest dogs are born potentially wild animals and socialisation with humans and other animals is vital from the earliest age. It is down to the breeder first and then the owner to ensure this happens. Or else there is a shithead dog, no matter what the breed. I say all this as the owner of four dogs. One had socialisation problems when she was a baby cos her breeder did not do enough to socialise her. She had a slight aggression problem with other dogs, never with humans. But it was managed by proper socialisation and not giving up on her. She is fine now btw. But in someone else's hands, she may well have become a nasty dog.
I read somewhere, can't recall where, that pit bulls are way down on the list of dogs most likely to bite. I suppose when they choose to they can cause a lot of damage in a short time. If my Yorkie decides to take a strop it would be slightly different than if a 50lb pit bull or a 80lb rottie decided to take pot shots at you. But even so, even toy breeds can cause nasty injuries if they really want to.
Sooooooo......... yeah, though some breeds are bred for a certain function, the people who CHOOSE to own and manage these dogs should take FULL responsibility.
Should the law be stricter? Not on the dogs, no.
Quote by Freckledbird
Jack Russells are the most vicious dog I have come across, just as well they are not bigger.
In general I consider it is the owners that need controlling. A dog is a killer, man now feeds them, but the instinct to kill is still there.
Humans have to kill animals to eat them (unless they are vegetarian)- we don't just wait for them to die then eat them. Doesn't make us all killers. I don't think I could eat something I'd killed - never had to do it.
And not all Jack Russells are vicious. Same for pit bulls/rottweilers/etc. I agree with you that it's the owners who need controlling.
Banning certain breeds of dog, will only encourage people to buy others with an inclination to be nasty. I've seen more and more people with Akitas; they are also known to be nasty - and they are more commonly the breed of choice for younger blokes who want to look 'hard'. Well, they are around here , not all Jack Russels, just the ones I have come across. I think it is their size and fear that tips them toward bit first and run for the bushes to hide.
I agree man is a killer, but we have social controls in place to prevent us killing each day. The only control a dog has is the owner. Given the need and chance dog and man will kill.
Any dog can be dangerous, as for the dangerous dogs act, well thats just a farce, It came into place in 1991 so anyone who had a pit bull terrier then or any of the other 3 breeds has an old dog on its last legs or no longer has one.
The dog that killed Ellie shouldn't even have been here. Why isn't the dog owner being procecuted for having it? or anyone else that has one?
The dog that killed Ellie shouldn't even have been here. Why isn't the dog owner being procecuted for having it? or anyone else that has one?
Sex God
Quote by
Jack Russells are the most vicious dog I have come across, just as well they are not bigger.
In general I consider it is the owners that need controlling. A dog is a killer, man now feeds them, but the instinct to kill is still there.
Humans have to kill animals to eat them (unless they are vegetarian)- we don't just wait for them to die then eat them. Doesn't make us all killers. I don't think I could eat something I'd killed - never had to do it.
And not all Jack Russells are vicious. Same for pit bulls/rottweilers/etc. I agree with you that it's the owners who need controlling.
Banning certain breeds of dog, will only encourage people to buy others with an inclination to be nasty. I've seen more and more people with Akitas; they are also known to be nasty - and they are more commonly the breed of choice for younger blokes who want to look 'hard'. Well, they are around here , not all Jack Russels, just the ones I have come across. I think it is their size and fear that tips them toward bit first and run for the bushes to hide.
I agree man is a killer, but we have social controls in place to prevent us killing each day. The only control a dog has is the owner. Given the need and chance dog and man will kill.
All this Jack Russell wants to do is check her emails. Bloody kitten hogging the PC again.
Not ALL Jack Russells are agressive.
As I said, it's about socialisation. Period.
Sex God
Hi Bluexxxx 
See the kittens are winning again!!
See the kittens are winning again!!
Sex God
Quote by bluexxx
As I said, it's about socialisation. Period.
:thumbup: I had a conversation about this with someone last night and agreed that dogs, especially small ones should be properly socialised as puppys to stop problems later on in their lives.
we have a cross breed terrier,the silly little fucker isn't scared of anything...not long ago he decided to have a pop at a pitbull,it was quite funny watching this pitbull run for its life but it might not have turned out that way...every dog has the instinct to attack regardless of how loving you bring it up,they can still get jealous of say children taking their place...
Sex God
Yep, it's very true that small dogs are often totally inadequately socialised, even to the point where basics like housetraining go out of the window. I suppose it's cos you can pick up a barking Chi or yorkie and laugh about it, whereas you can't exactly tuck a snarling rottie under your arm and go "there there". Thing with small dogs is, they tend to be babied too much... picked up to much, not allowed to be a real dog. This can cause them to be overly afraid in situations that most dogs don't blink an eye at, such as walking down the street. In some individuals this can cause fear aggression. It is easily managed if you know what you're doing, but so many people don't.
Too many people buy dogs as fashion accessories - chis are now popular (and expensive) cos a few celebs have them. Same is happening with Yorkies atm. Other people buy staffies and pit bulls cos they look 'ard. A few years ago it was rotties, before that GSDs. Well, people don't realise that the cute little Yorkie is actually a real terrier and can easily be taught to hunt just as well as any other terrier might be. Dogs that are bought just to look a certain way still need all the training necessary for any dog. How many dogs per year end up in rescue cos people have simply got bored with them? And how many breeds now suffer from common hereditory problems, such as hip dysplasia and PRA cos of years of bad breeding? all comes back to bad breeding and inappropraite ownership, I'm afraid.
This fella is .. a complete softie in the house, won't say boo to a goose, even kittens beat him up... but put him on a lead and take him out and he's as 'ard as nails. Completely funny to watch
Too many people buy dogs as fashion accessories - chis are now popular (and expensive) cos a few celebs have them. Same is happening with Yorkies atm. Other people buy staffies and pit bulls cos they look 'ard. A few years ago it was rotties, before that GSDs. Well, people don't realise that the cute little Yorkie is actually a real terrier and can easily be taught to hunt just as well as any other terrier might be. Dogs that are bought just to look a certain way still need all the training necessary for any dog. How many dogs per year end up in rescue cos people have simply got bored with them? And how many breeds now suffer from common hereditory problems, such as hip dysplasia and PRA cos of years of bad breeding? all comes back to bad breeding and inappropraite ownership, I'm afraid.
This fella is .. a complete softie in the house, won't say boo to a goose, even kittens beat him up... but put him on a lead and take him out and he's as 'ard as nails. Completely funny to watch
All dogs are potential biters. The size & strength of dog determines it's ability to kill.
Dog's are greatly governed by their inbuilt "fight or flight" tendency. Some dogs, will choose to fight- some will choose to run away. Some breeds are more likely to do one, and some the other. However, there are always exceptions to the rule. I just tried to come up with the categorisation I know exsists somewhere which puts breeds into one or the other camp. I didn't find it- but this makes interesting reading :
Fuckwits who buy a dog to look 'ard are not going to train said dog to behave in a manner thats not 'ard.
Ban Fuckwits.
Dog's are greatly governed by their inbuilt "fight or flight" tendency. Some dogs, will choose to fight- some will choose to run away. Some breeds are more likely to do one, and some the other. However, there are always exceptions to the rule. I just tried to come up with the categorisation I know exsists somewhere which puts breeds into one or the other camp. I didn't find it- but this makes interesting reading :
Fuckwits who buy a dog to look 'ard are not going to train said dog to behave in a manner thats not 'ard.
Ban Fuckwits.
its also my opinion that all dogs have the potental to turn and bite.
I grew up with dogs, we had an Alsation and Labrador they were thought to trusted round us and the other kids in the street until one of them started getting nasty and then eventually biting me.....turned out he had cancer which was sending him mad.
I wouldnt trust any animal around me or my family
I grew up with dogs, we had an Alsation and Labrador they were thought to trusted round us and the other kids in the street until one of them started getting nasty and then eventually biting me.....turned out he had cancer which was sending him mad.
I wouldnt trust any animal around me or my family
Sex God
Quote by Mr-Powers
we have a cross breed terrier,the silly little fucker isn't scared of anything...not long ago he decided to have a pop at a pitbull,it was quite funny watching this pitbull run for its life but it might not have turned out that way...every dog has the instinct to attack regardless of how loving you bring it up,they can still get jealous of say children taking their place...
As you said, it might not have turned out that way. I'm not saying that you would, Mr P., but if that pitbull had turned round and possibly killed the terrier (who started it!), there are owners who would still blame the pit bull and it could possibly have made the news. Just because it was a pit bull.
Quote by Freckledbird
we have a cross breed terrier,the silly little fucker isn't scared of anything...not long ago he decided to have a pop at a pitbull,it was quite funny watching this pitbull run for its life but it might not have turned out that way...every dog has the instinct to attack regardless of how loving you bring it up,they can still get jealous of say children taking their place...
As you said, it might not have turned out that way. I'm not saying that you would, Mr P., but if that pitbull had turned round and possibly killed the terrier (who started it!), there are owners who would still blame the pit bull and it could possibly have made the news. Just because it was a pit bull.
i would have been upset for about an hour...but hey life goes on!
don't tell the wife i said that!
Sex God
Quote by solofunThe dogs owner, the uncle of the child who was killed, was sentenced to eight weeks in prison for having it.
Any dog can be dangerous, as for the dangerous dogs act, well thats just a farce, It came into place in 1991 so anyone who had a pit bull terrier then or any of the other 3 breeds has an old dog on its last legs or no longer has one.
The dog that killed Ellie shouldn't even have been here. Why isn't the dog owner being procecuted for having it? or anyone else that has one?
: :?Quote by Freckledbird
Sorry Mar, I'm one of those people who think it's down to the owner.
I don't disagree. I'd said 'some people say it's down to the owners' and that I personally think it's inbred into dogs, but yes I also agree a lot is down to how the owners bring up dogs.
As I said, we have two and we never ever show violence to them, they are treat with love and affection, I have never raised a hand or foot to any of my two and yet one of our dogs is as soft as clarts but if you come to our front door, the other will appear from nowhere and knock you off your feet! That's his instinct to protect his 'pack' therefore if someone comes to the front door I put him in the kitchen until I allow him in to greet the person, then he knows they are ok and licks them to death.
It's like I said, I wouldn't 100% trust even my own, maybe 95% but not 100.
Quote by lyns
I agree with you on parts jaymar. To be honest tho there are other dogs which have infliced harm including death such as rottweilers, a while ago a 5 month old baby was killed by one. So although I agree that the dogs covered by the dangerous dogs act are dangerous there are still a few breeds which arn`t covered which maybe should be!. I doubt tho that any of the dangerous dogs covered will be "got rid of" completly.
I for one had never heard of 3 out of the 4 dogs covered by the act in this country!!.
This link shows the dogs covered if anyone is unsure what dogs they are.
We don`t have a dog ourselves however my mum does and he is a big german sheppard (police dog trained) but as daft as a brush. I would never trust him 100% around my two girls neither would my mum or stepdad even tho he was brought up around kids from a young age.
Hope this makes sense to somone else bar me
I understand ya! :lol: and you are making perfect sense to me hun x
Quote by bluexxx
Sooooooo......... yeah, though some breeds are bred for a certain function, the people who CHOOSE to own and manage these dogs should take FULL responsibility.
I agree, but that dog should have then been muzzled and no where near children or in my opinion kept as a family pet
Should the law be stricter? Not on the dogs, no.
So what do you think of the pit bull in the case of little Ellie? Yes the grandmother shouldn't have allowed the dog in with Ellie, but don't you agree that dog is dangerous therefore the law should be stricter on that type of dog??
as i have worked in this field with certain animal orginisations and the police a pit bull is not a breed of dog ,it is a stafford bull terrier crossed with any large dog and any dog can be a dangerous dog ,they are only classed as a dangerous dog if they bite and draw blood,under the law if it does not draw blood it is not dangerous ,just classed as not under control
Quote by tangothree
as i have worked in this field with certain animal orginisations and the police a pit bull is not a breed of dog ,it is a stafford bull terrier crossed with any large dog and any dog can be a dangerous dog ,they are only classed as a dangerous dog if they bite and draw blood,under the law if it does not draw blood it is not dangerous ,just classed as not under control
I'm sure even the police or any animal organisations will know that a pit bull terrier is a breed of dog, in fact its a pedigree dog, one which in banned from the UK under the dangerous dogs act. As for a pit bull being any large dog bred with a Staffordshire bull terrier that’s nonsense, even if that were the case it would then be illegal to breed Staffordshire bull terriers. Pit bull terriers originate from America and are a pedigree breed, they are also known in America as an American Staffordshire bull terrier via the Kennel Club, which might be where your wires are crossed? I’ve also heard they have Irish versions but wouldn't know? I’m sure someone from Ireland may confirm this.
Sex God
Quote by tangothree
as i have worked in this field with certain animal orginisations and the police a pit bull is not a breed of dog ,it is a stafford bull terrier crossed with any large dog and any dog can be a dangerous dog ,they are only classed as a dangerous dog if they bite and draw blood,under the law if it does not draw blood it is not dangerous ,just classed as not under control
This link says different:
I grew up with dogs, one which was mine. We roamed the farm together. The school children would come into the yard and play with her, soft as cream, but if a stranger turned up, few would get out of the car.
I learned to read dogs, I knew which would be trouble, which to face down, which to ignore. The only dog I have run from is a Jack Russel. So if you can see me scaling a wall with this mad little terrier yapping away, have a laugh!, but I know what it had done to the postman and milkman.
I learned to read dogs, I knew which would be trouble, which to face down, which to ignore. The only dog I have run from is a Jack Russel. So if you can see me scaling a wall with this mad little terrier yapping away, have a laugh!, but I know what it had done to the postman and milkman.
Quote by jaymar
Just lately there has been more and more news of people being mauled by pit bulls..
There have been enough comments in this thread about whether its the owners fault or the dogs. I'm going back to this comment in the post that started the thread to say the real reason people are now demanding tougher action is that the press are reporting it more. The press print what sells papers. One weeks pitbull is another weeks kiddie fiddler.
I was once told (and I haven't trawled the facts n figures on the net to see how true it is, although it probably is) that accounts of child abductions etc is no worse now than it was 50 or 60 years ago, in fact today its probably a lot less. The only real thing that has changed is the tabloid media ramming every single instance down the gullable publics throat making them think "By eck, there was never this amount of it going on when i was young, its terrible today how many happen".
I watched this happen with SPAD's, red signals passed on the railway. 20+ years ago there were probaly 4 or 5 times the signals passed at danger than there is now. But they were never reported, never a cause for concern outside the railway industry, but once the media got its teeth into a it a few years ago, and reported almost every instance and suddenly the general public is under the impression that the railways are awash with Signals Passed At Danger and its sooo unsafe..
Back to the thread.. I grew up with German Shepherd's, owned an Akita and never had any trouble out of any, because they were socialised and trained properly....
