debate; gender and jobs

31 Jan 2005

I was reading through this thread when I took offence at a comment(not the one quoted here) made about jobs and their expected gender.
The person gave this well structured reply to my grievance:

Reading the papers only last week it showed that the jobs most took up by males were plumbers/plasterers/builders etc, and females were mainly taking up jobs in the nurseing/teaching/caring sides of life.
I think most people would view these jobs and typically, traditionally "female" jobs.
Im not saying males cant be equally good doing these jobs, or females equally good doing alternative jobs.

I wondered why and how we feel each of us has picked up our own social expectations. Where do you feel the idea that girls are nurses and boys are doctors come from, for example?
I am not throwing insults I am genuinely curious as to how and if this perception will be changed in future generations? If by simply accepting things as a "fact" do we allow the behaviour patterns, expectations and stereotypical role models to continue?
kiss

31 Jan 2005

his point was valid i've never met a female plumber/plasterer, thats not to say there aren't any there just rare, there are also alot of female in the nursing industry but there are also alot of men, there are alot of female doctore and male doctors.
Its not as one sided as it used to be many people are equal when it comes to physically easier jobs, but its a scientific fact that the majority of men is stronger than the majoirty of women hence more men in labour intensive jobs.
I think women as nurses and men as doctors is a dated view, but i think its as equal now as its ever likely to get.

31 Jan 2005

Personnally I think we have gone through the worst of the steroetype in the last ten years. With all of the PC comments that are around now-a-days I believe that the times are already changing. It is only those who have been brought up with the perception of the roles of gender and jobs that seem to stand out now.
As people become more aware with themselves and others so do our children. So in answer to your curiousity (in my opinion) is that yes, the times are/have changed and you will only recognise the olden days because not everybody changes at the same speed and not all change is inherintly good.

31 Jan 2005

I don't think he was being sexist Gem, just making the observation that some jobs are seen as 'male' or 'female'. I don't necessarily agree with that, but I would say that there might be some jobs that a woman might find difficult, because of build or strength for example. There might also be some jobs that men could find difficult, but I think that might be because of other peoples' reactions when they tell them the job they do. I think a major part of peoples' reactions is down to how they were raised and the opinions and values that they have inherited from their parents.
Our children have been raised with the attitude of 'if you want to, try it' (within reason of course). I think that this applies to anything, whether it's occupations, hobbies or sexuality (as they get older and more aware). I wouldn't be upset at anything they wanted to try, as long as they've thought carefully about it and considered all the pros and cons. I would also say, 'don't knock it till you've tried it'. I think as a parent you worry anyway, whatever they decide to do, because you always think that you know best and it's hard to come to terms with the fact that they are old enough to make their own decisions about careers for example. All you can do is support them as best you can and be there when it goes pear shaped, if it does confused

Bev
xx

31 Jan 2005

I work in what is classed as the construction industry.
When I first started, I had major problems turing up on site and being told by a MCP
' your a woman' I was expecting a man!. The MCP in this case got put in this place :twisted:
Now, 10 years on I have no problems and am accepted for the job I do and the knowledge I have.
Mind you there are some lovely male builders out there lol

31 Jan 2005

I am going into the teaching profession and am constantly battling against the impressions that some children come to school with. Of course, by being a teacher I am myself conforming to the "stereotyped" job and gender link mentioned. I am in the job because that is where my skills and heart felt comfy. If I have to work for the best part of my life I figured I might as well choose a job I loved doing. No particular personal offence to anyone was meant.
I felt that his quote is a very key and valid point, one which set my brain ticking and whurring in over time actually! I'd like to think that I wouldn't be concerned with the profession my own children choose (when I eventually have some of my own) but is peer pressure amongst parents is also a factor?
I was discussing parenting with someone and they said they were condemned by some of the parents in the playground for buying their son a doll. I was shocked to find that the parents had targetted and deemed this "unsuitable parenting". I wondered if this went on when I was a child or whether me being female it was seen as more acceptable to encourage me to be "balanced" as I was allowed to play with racing cars, lego, dolls, a whole mixture of things confused

Quote by Mattmoleman
As people become more aware with themselves and others so do our children. So in answer to your curiousity (in my opinion) is that yes, the times are/have changed and you will only recognise the olden days because not everybody changes at the same speed and not all change is inherintly good.

How do you mean?
x

31 Jan 2005

Sorry littlegem. I think I was going off on a tangent. Something I often do. I don't believe promising little 'uns the world or in fact shattering their dreams. Tangent again....
Too much PC can make people not have their own opinions. Little 'uns have their own thoughts on this subject and their is not much anybody can do. They can only learn off others but they will eventually make up there own minds.
I don't know how old the little 'uns you teach are but if they have made up there minds then I don't believe there is a problem at all.

31 Jan 2005

I was once having a discussion with my class. One of the girls (9 years old at the time) said 'I'm going to wait until I'm 16 then get pregnant, then I'll get my own flat like my sister does. She works in Tesco's now' and one little boy (also 9) who said he was 'gonna rob houses like his dad' :shock:
So little to aspire to; their parents couldn't see the problem with it (revealed by further questioning/discussion)
Bev
xx

31 Jan 2005

I was brought up with very stereotyped views. Neither my sister, nor I were encouraged to even think about a career outside of the stereotypical female ones of the time becuase we were expected to get married and stay at home with the kids - and then maybe work in an office as a typist. Shock and horror when I said I wanted to go to University.
I now work in the very male dominated world of distribution, where I am the only woman in my team. We used to have a woman on the board of Directors. She was very well respected by all the women I knew in the company, but all the men just called her "the Rottweiller". She was no more aggressive than any of the male board members.
As for female builders etc - a friend of mine is a plasterer/decorater - and is sought after for the fact that she IS a woman! Single women and older people seem to prefer having a woman do the job. Is this another form of sterotyipng? Is she perceived as least threatening perhaps? dunno

31 Jan 2005

I chose my job because it's easy and well paid, no stereotypes there biggrin

31 Jan 2005

Quote by lucyuktv2
I chose my job because it's easy and well paid, no stereotypes there

Me too, apart from the well paid bit rolleyes

31 Jan 2005

Quote by bluexxx
I chose my job because it's easy and well paid, no stereotypes there

Me too, apart from the well paid bit rolleyes

so you're just easy then? :twisted: :twisted:

31 Jan 2005

I spent two years training as a car mechanic on my father's advice. He said a woman should always be able to look after her own car.
This was back in the mid 70's when this type of job was seen as a male occupation and consequently there was only one other girl in the group. Me, her and around 25 young lads cool

I've never worked in that field, but I do know there are lots of girl mechanics these days, and no one blinks at it, but then we were thought of as *butch* and *not very feminine* rolleyes

I've had the odd dabble now and again, and changed the clutch on my own car last year, although I don't fancy laying on the cold ground to change my rear silencer which needs doing.
Don't mind cold ground if we're out dogging though wink

:twisted:
Tracy-Jayne

31 Jan 2005

It ought to be obvious to all that pretty well ANY job can be done by either sex, but old-fashioned prejudices are still all around. I spent many years in the caring professions as a social worker in residential homes, and there are still people who think it's not quite a suitable job for a real bloke!
One other interesting development more recently is people who think that gay men and lesbians are more "caring" than straight people. There have always been many gay people of both sexes in care work, but a woman I know who used to employ a nanny for her children always advertised for nannies (male or female) in the Pink Paper (A London area gay mag - not sure if it still exists), as she thought that gay people were more caring - she wasn't gay herself!
Mike.

31 Jan 2005

Quote by MikeNorth
One other interesting development more recently is people who think that gay men and lesbians are more "caring" than straight people. There have always been many gay people of both sexes in care work, but a woman I know who used to employ a nanny for her children always advertised for nannies (male or female) in the Pink Paper (A London area gay mag - not sure if it still exists), as she thought that gay people were more caring - she wasn't gay herself!

Now there's one I haven't come across!!! :shock: Interesting theory. I suppose a lot of our preconceptions come from our own upbringing or experiences. She has probably had nothing but good expereinces with gay nannies and therefore has decided that all gay men/women are more caring.
If she had spent her informative years in my local, however, she would probably come away with the belief that all Lesbians are unemployed, fight and drink to much!! lol