Declaration of war!!

21 Jul 2005

I think the general consensus is that something needs to be done.
Lots of suggestions have been made...some good, some not so.
I might be wrong but I don't think Sarge was trying to give the impression that he or the other mods wanted to decide what is a good post and what isn't.....that's up to all of us.
I think confused

: he was just pointing out that there is a lot of shite around at the moment - in general. Those who don't agree obviously haven't looked back to previous threads.
Yes, we all have different thoughts on what is shite and what isn't but be honest - when there are only 3 people replying to one thread continuously, could that not be taken to the chat room or via PM?
The site is made up of many individuals with many different opinions, quite rightly - what is clear is that a lot of us can't stand the "look at me" threads or the "I've changed my avatar, what do you think?".
I think I'm right in remembering there was a discussion on this last year where "celebratory" post counts should no longer be posted as every day someone else would be on their 100th or 200th post etc...... which was a damn good idea as it was becoming quite tedious.
I think most of us are guilty of posting rubbish at some point - it's only to be expected, but it seems that this has become the norm now...anything goes.
I do agree that what I might find complete rubbish someone might not but I don't think the issue is with the info threads or threads with some kind of path/topic etc
It is not the quantity of posts you make that get you invited to munches etc = yes you are encouraged to make yourself known by posting but that does not mean you have to post complete and utter crap.
We all need to take responsibility for what we post - just think before starting that thread: could it be PM'd? Could the title do with changing? Does this appeal to other members?
Just a small bit of thought is needed..... then hopefully things just might start to change!

21 Jul 2005

Oe er... lot of stuff. Let me summarise what I think were some good ideas and some bad. I think rather than getting on the is it good or bad bandwagon what we really need is a toolbox for out site mods to use to make Marks site work the way he wants. At the end of the day I have a lot of faith in our modding team, and a off topic area is not as draconian as a lock.
Firstly, lots of forums, bad idea, poor mods have more places to look. Also the cafe is the cafe because it covers such a wide range of topics. Having said that a place to move the clutter would not hurt. Yes people would moan, but hey the conversation can still carry on in there unlike a locked thread. I would call it the 'Out There...' forum. Not offensive, not off topic, just really, well, out there smile

If a topic is offensive then lock it and move it 'Out There' to save us all reading it.
Now a list of the other ideas I liked in short order to keep this post concise:

Cooling off period
Just a couple of days, maybe a week. Really just to stop the one hit wonders and those who are banned, come back, banned, come back... This would I think help the mods with a reduction in leg work.
Thread Titles
Quickest way to get 'Out There' post acrappy thread title. Mods if they have time can tidy a thread title or off to the bin goes the thread.
Top 5 done to death
We all moan about done to death, but what are they? Have a sticky or similar with the current top 5 no go areas for topics (or top 10 if we need it). any new thread on them is deleted, not sin binned, deleted. The list can change as and when people feel the need, just post what should come on the list and whenever a mod is bored (yeah I know they never are) they can nip through and update the list based on the replies then delete them.
Sunset period
Old idea I know I put to Mark before, but slightly different twist this time. The search button is not your friend, a real old post being trawled up is not as nice as re-doing somthing a year or so on. I think we should agree a time after which you can ask the same question or do the same topic. By all means refer back to the old post, but let sleeping dogs lie. I hate reading through a whole thought provoking thread, to find I already replied to it 6 months ago and now someone dragged it up with a 'this was good' comment.
Threads per day limit
I think if technically possible we should be limited to 2 new threads in a 24 hour period. This would make people a little more cautious about what they start as a thread. So you can post a joke, or a serious thread, but you cant spam the cafe with threads about how your thread was deleted, 6 jokes, and a winge...
Ok just my ideas, sorry this turned into a long reply but there were a lot to cover :) One last point with regard to godwins law, please can we delete the offending post, not lock the thread? I was really enjoying the ID cards thread and one twit says a word and bang, topic closed. Punish twit not rest of us :) If this thread had been locked after that idiot I would have gone to bed on time, but missed some really good debate.

21 Jul 2005

Quote by Aldeway
So what constitutes a decent post ???? and in who's opinion ????
I thought the point of the cafe was to allow people the opportunity to say what they wanted to say .................. the fact that you dont want to hear it .............. or dont want to comment on it ............. doesn't make it crap ............ it just makes it irrelevant to you !!
Everyone on here is entitled to say what they want .............. if we were all the same wouldnt the world be a boring place ???
Your humour might not be mine........... and mine might not be yours ................. but does that mean that my humour has no place on here and yours does ????
I enjoy my time on this site coz of the diversity of the people on here..................... and that includes the silly, boring,not my taste threads !!!
Getting off the soap box now and going to hide in a dark dark corner !!!! lol

What she said. For all us happy campers, if the thread is shite then don't read it end to end and then moan about it. You have a choice.
STEP AWAY FROM THE DROSS! rolleyes

Don't need anyone to make up my mind for me on what i do or don't want to read. Thank you so very kindly.
For the mods, if you don't like reading all the crap guess you have 3 options...
1. resign your mod status (no conscription in this army eh Sarge?)
2. invent a variable and dynamic web based thread filter which highlights only those questionable words in posts that mean you NEED to take a look. Patent the idea, make a killing and increase the number of people who want to shag you exponentially.
3. Post a thread saying you are gonna cut the crap threads. Ooops already been done
....switches tongue from one cheek to other, steps into his flame proof boxers and waits ...
I bow down before you too!
i'm in so much shit now! lol
bolt

:bolt: :bolt: :bolt:

21 Jul 2005

Quote by Nomad_Soul
Post deleted by author because I think I misunderstood HappyCats sense of humour.
For which I apologise.
Sorry.

What happened?
I missed it! Mind you, you wouldnt be the first!

21 Jul 2005

Quote by bailiffs
I have gone back to last Saturday night at just to have a look at some of the thread themes that have been posted, up to now, about Thursday, about 5 days.
Weâ€™ve had â€“
23 x Hi Iâ€™m new
25 x I need help/ technical or otherwise
10 x Look at me
10 x Look at this link
7 x Jokes
4 x Congratulations
If I were able to answer perhaps a third of the help questions and posted â€œhiâ€ or â€œyou look greatâ€ or â€œ thatâ€™s a funny/good linkâ€ or â€œthatâ€™s funny a good jokeâ€ or â€œcongratulationsâ€, just by posting on these alone, starting from scratch, I would be on 62 posts at an average of 12.4 posts a day. In less than 3 months Iâ€™d have a full blue bar and be considered a seasoned member and contributed f**k all!
If there was a sticky for each of those topics, we could have removed 73 threads in 5 days.
Itâ€™s a start!

:worship: :worship: see not just a pretty face!!!!, you have a point!!!
oh im too confused with all this!!!! mad

good point but if you had a 'hi newbie here' sticky how many long term members would actually look at it

22 Jul 2005

What is wrong with shite posts? I have limited interests (the ones I have, I am passionate about), so I usually pop into the cafe once every few days, have a cursory glance at the more promising threads, and 99% of the time go away again. This isn't because the threads aren't interesting, it's because they aren't interesting to me.
A thread only becomes a thread when people reply, until then it's just a post. So if people are replying, on the topic of the original post, they're interested. Which means it can't be shite to them, even if it's shite to someone else (and this thread is shite to some, I'm sure).
If the long term posters want to close their little corner of the net off to anyone who doesn't fit their particular brand of clique, then fair enough, this is theirs to do with as they wish after all. Part of the reason I've become less interested is the hand of the mods seemed to be getting heavier, and the "search button is your friend" comment thrown about far too often for my liking (so something's been discussed months or years ago. Does that mean people cannot change their minds, and newbies can't have their say?). This thread just seems to be a natural progression from that attitude.
As I said, the admin and mods of this board can do with it what they want, but I'd like to hope they'd be accepting that not everyone thinks like them, and some actually like to talk about how many waffles they had, or would like a bit of support cause their goldfish is ill.
Long live the shite, if you don't like the thread just move on, how hard can that be?
/ rant

22 Jul 2005

Quote by Shambolic
What is wrong with shite posts? I have limited interests (the ones I have, I am passionate about), so I usually pop into the cafe once every few days, have a cursory glance at the more promising threads, and 99% of the time go away again. This isn't because the threads aren't interesting, it's because they aren't interesting to me.

Nothing is wrong with the ....... hmmm I don't want to call is 'shite posts' as you say, to some they're not ....... but there is nothing wrong with these posts, they don't break the AUP - what they do do is flood the Cafe. Some are interested? - that's a bit of a generous statement. Usually the maximum of interested people is about 3! These threads can still be read and responded to - but if they have no information, no questions, no story, no point, they can be taken off the top of the first page of the Cafe, thats all - just leave the Cafe with the threads that have a wider reach, doesn't even have to be on topic, if several people are responding, the newer people are also responding and not getting ignored like it's a 'private' conversation etc

A thread only becomes a thread when people reply, until then it's just a post. So if people are replying, on the topic of the original post, they're interested. Which means it can't be shite to them, even if it's shite to someone else (and this thread is shite to some, I'm sure).

Agreed, see above. But if you've got a couple or 3 people on here for a long stretch of time, the Cafe is going to be flooded with just their posts. They're having a laugh, bluddy enjoying themselves, fair play to em, bring it on ........... but it is extremely annoying for people that come on later on and see nothing more than a few people having conversations. No not restricted to one thread, it's always in every thread and every other post - even worse it's the same conversations, just different faces.
The thing is, this behaviour isn't restricted to certain people - we've ALL done it!! Sometimes you're having a blast and just dont realise it's changed to a 2/3 way conversation until quite late......... If it can get split off and shoved in a little corner somewhere, then you can carry on - it's just not at the top of the Cafe that's all, nowt more, not a discipline thing, just moved dunno

I'm going on about the 'chats' all the time here, but it's other kinds of threads too - for instance the ones with the question as the title and the "what do you think" as the post - people aren't interested in that - the only reason people post on it and keep it at the top of the Cafe is to tell em what a plank they are and to try harder with the opening post of a thread etc. Move it off the top of the Cafe and let them receive these opinions, if it suddenly goes on topic and people start answering their 'question' then bring it on back in the Cafe for a wider reach. The "do you like my avatar/theres nothing much wrong with me or my life but give me sympathy anyway" threads - how many people actually 'care'? Not bluddy many, if it's trivial then PM yer mates and tell em you're down/got a new av etc - if you can't do that then just have the thread moved off the top of the Cafe and into a little niche where people can massage your ego til your hearts content biggrin

If the long term posters want to close their little corner of the net off to anyone who doesn't fit their particular brand of clique, then fair enough, this is theirs to do with as they wish after all. Part of the reason I've become less interested is the hand of the mods seemed to be getting heavier, and the "search button is your friend" comment thrown about far too often for my liking (so something's been discussed months or years ago. Does that mean people cannot change their minds, and newbies can't have their say?). This thread just seems to be a natural progression from that attitude.

Nope, the last thing is to close off and form any kind of clique confused

Newer people can get totally swamped and lost in a sea of 'conversations' - They are going to get a lot more noticed, a lot quicker if they're posting some sort of point - rather than feeling they have to tell someone how great they are, because sometimes that's the only thing they can post on, due to every other thread being taken over with 2/3 way 'chats'
I've seen it, and how many people feel it! That feeling where you want to add to a thread, but it's a 'bit late' because 4 pages ago it was taken over.

As I said, the admin and mods of this board can do with it what they want, but I'd like to hope they'd be accepting that not everyone thinks like them, and some actually like to talk about how many waffles they had, or would like a bit of support cause their goldfish is ill.
Long live the shite, if you don't like the thread just move on, how hard can that be?
/ rant

Absolutely, not all people think like mods (even less think like Davej :shock: ) - so it would be an awful idea to have the mods 'decide' what is shite and what is good :shock: The mods would be in for one hell of a hard time and a lot of flaming because certain people 'were enjoying that' ............ I feel that there are certain kinds of threads/posts, they follow the same pattern. Easy to spot - if they have no question, no little story, no reasoning, a tiny reach of people (ie 2 or 3), no point, then just move it off the top of the Cafe ...... that's all, no telling off, no insulting - just moving it into a cosy spot so they can carry on and enjoy. cool

22 Jul 2005

Quote by tallnhairy
.
Firstly, lots of forums, bad idea, poor mods have more places to look. Also the cafe is the cafe because it covers such a wide range of topics. Having said that a place to move the clutter would not hurt. Yes people would moan, but hey the conversation can still carry on in there unlike a locked thread. I would call it the 'Out There...' forum. Not offensive, not off topic, just really, well, out there If a topic is offensive then lock it and move it 'Out There' to save us all reading it.
.

... Not necessarily.... I used to moderate a board (different subject matter!!) which had i think about 10,000 members at the time...... we had about 10 different areas, and a team of 8 moderators, who basically had their own specific areas to concentrate on, and then they just randomly surfed the rest...... system worked quite well for us

22 Jul 2005

Quote by Sgt Bilko
I hereby give notice that I (and hopefully the other Mods) will no longer tolerate shite threads or shite posts in the Cafe.
I have had enough!!!! I used to love this place and the people within it. Now I can barely stand moderating it, and if something isn't done soon this site will become as mundane and boring as all the other forums on the internet.
What has made this place so much better than all the others has been the mix of swinging, sex, funny and interesting posts/ threads from the members. Recently it has become a site where anyone can post anything about anything they want, whether the subject be interesting to most people or not.
NO MORE!! I am taking it upon myself to improve the standard of contributions here. I am so fed up of the standards now that I will stand or fall by that decision. I will either make this a better place or if you the members feel I am wrong, then I will leave, letting you decide what should or should not be allowed in here.
I hope to have your support, because this place is your place, and someone has to act on your behalf, but if I am wrong, and you tell me I am wrong, then I will accept that and leave you to the forum that you desire.

Hence the reason my post count is so low........I rarely post in here these days as there is very little that inspires me to do so..
Maybe its that I need far too much inspiration to be a valuable member dunno

Maybe its because the Cafe has changed :dunno:
Either way if someone is willing to make changes to try and "improve" things then I am in full support of this and welcome its arrival...
Spot on Sarge.... :thumbup:

22 Jul 2005

Quote by lincskate
[... Not necessarily.... I used to moderate a board...

Hang on a sec, I feel another variation of Godwin's coming on... be right back. lol

22 Jul 2005

Blithe Spirit..........
Your post is exactly my point !!! ............... you should post more often

22 Jul 2005

Quote by blonde
Blithe Spirit..........
Your post is exactly my point !!! ............... you should post more often

Do you know, I didnt read that!
I'm glad I just did, it was really good, bollocks mind, but really good! wink

22 Jul 2005

If you dont like the threads in the Cafe ............ post something interesting of your own !!
Why wait for someone else to post something interesting that you want to comment on ?
The only people who can change what is posted in here are the members doing the posting
Sam xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

22 Jul 2005

Quote by blonde
If you dont like the threads in the Cafe ............ post something interesting of your own !!
Why wait for someone else to post something interesting that you want to comment on ?
The only people who can change what is posted in here are the members doing the posting
Sam xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

When did I say that?

22 Jul 2005

Quote by blonde
So we are going for a "Cafe forum" and a "crap posts" forum ??? lol lol lol
Sorry...... but if I want to post a thread about world peace........ I will.......... and if I want to post a thread about .............. how to make a stew ...........i will !!!!
I am not breaking any rules and shouldnt be judged by anyone to be making a crap post !!
Some people want deep and meaning full discussions and others just want a giggle !!
I thought "EACH TO THEIR OWN" had a place on here ?

Hear Hear Sam ......... Well done! It needed to be said.
This site prides itself on it's policy of non-interference and unless someone breaks the rules - for which the Mods & Ops have been appointed - then posts should be left alone entirely. As blonde stated, posts quickly move off of page 1 if the users of this site deem them to be banal or pointless.
I have often thought that 3 categories in this section of SH is not enough for the diversity and amount of people that use this site. A Mayhem forum for ppl who want to post trivial messages would be a good addition to the site which would leave The Cafe as a place where users can discuss the finer points of swinging - as thats what we are all here for. ....... just a suggestion!!

22 Jul 2005

Quote by Wishmaster
Hear Hear Sam ......... Well done! It needed to be said.
This site prides itself on it's policy of non-interference and unless someone breaks the rules - for which the Mods & Ops have been appointed - then posts should be left alone entirely. As blonde stated, posts quickly move off of page 1 if the users of this site deem them to be banal or pointless.
I have often thought that 3 categories in this section of SH is not enough for the diversity and amount of people that use this site. A Mayhem forum for ppl who want to post trivial messages would be a good addition to the site which would leave The Cafe as a place where users can discuss the finer points of swinging - as thats what we are all here for. ....... just a suggestion!!

It wouldn't be interferering with a post, it would be just budging them over into another forum that you mentioned and said was a good thing.
Surely people aren't so precious that they're going to get upset they're moved to a different area to 'chat'. It's doing nothing more than taking it off the top of the Cafe, it's not being stopped, not being locked, not being deleted, just moved.
There are too many 'interesting threads' that have an exciting title, for example "OMG YOU NEVER GUESS WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" and a post that says nothing more than something like "I've been on here for 3 hours now, done 80 posts and still haven't had a coffee" evil

It isn't 'interesting' stuff - it quickly turns into an exchange with about 3 people and it stays at the top of the Cafe .......... all I wanna do is move em, please let me move em lol

22 Jul 2005

If another catagory is created, then moving threads to the correct area is a basic moderating duty. End of.
Venusxxx

22 Jul 2005

But will it still be the cafe or will it be called something else?
May I suggest the Gag room. Works on more levels than one.

22 Jul 2005

Quote by Libra+Love
But will it still be the cafe or will it be called something else?
May I suggest the Gag room. Works on more levels than one.

22 Jul 2005

Personally I think this discussion has reached it's conclusion.
It's been established that there are two very different types of thread in The Cafe. It's been established that one train of thought does not want to see one type of thread locked, and the other wants to see less of these threads in The Cafe.
It's pretty much evident that another catagory is needed to cater for this.
Simple really.
Venusxxx

22 Jul 2005

My opinion on this and slight suggestion would be:
Lots of irrelevant posts have been made. Not by a few, by the vast majority of the users in the cafe. I know I for one post some 'help needed' threads which will not be amusing or interesting to anybody other than those who want to bait it into a comic thread or those wanting to help.
Help threads and poor me threads have the tendancies of making me turn the computer off. To be quite frank my dear I just couldn't give a damn. They still get answered as others do care more than I. Others will be able to help with there own knowledge.
These are two types of threads that I think create a lot of less stimulating conversation.
A solution which I haven't really thought through yet would be to have a Personal Cafe. One that could be used for personal problems, situations, non swinging related advice threads. As this is still quite a wide and varied description it would still get a lot of posts in. It would still get the good threads and bad. At least they won't all be in the same place.
Just an idea.
Matthew

22 Jul 2005

Quote by Ice Pie
But will it still be the cafe or will it be called something else?
May I suggest the Gag room. Works on more levels than one.

Nobody is advocating gagging though. Quite the opposite. A separate area for things like private conversations of no interest to anyone except the 2 or 3 people involved, should actually cut down on the number of threads the mods have to lock.
I've followed the whole thread. I'm with the discussion. The mods are free to lock threads at their discretion. Members are free to post threads and respond as long as it's in keeping with the AUP. The AUP is set by the site owner and moderators.
And once again the forum grinds to a halt 'cause nobody is sure if the thread they're considering posting is acceptable or not. Seen it happen over and over again. But this time it was started by a moderator. The people who decide what is or isn't acceptable dunno

Am I wrong in in my assumption that the mods and Mark are the very people who setout the AUP?
Are swingers so closed minded that all they want to discuss is sex or debate serious in depth issues?
What happened to light hearted fun along the way?
Will the GFZ be binned in this new forum too?
And don't we all have more serious real life shit to be contending with than to bitch, gripe and moan about the triavia people post.
Sheesh....you deal with the trivia, I'll zip it with the rest of the people who are no longer sure what is or isn't an acceptable/interesting post (except for my Triple X Productions, hope that one is acceptable) and wait for the final outcome of this thread and the change in AUP/forum.

22 Jul 2005

Libra,
Come here and give me a cuddle ?
We can talk rubbish together !!!!

22 Jul 2005

Quote by blonde
You are Ops or Mods to enforce the site rules.......... not your own !!!

That's a killer argument with which I completely agree. I don't want the mods to presume to disallow anything that isn't already disallowed by the AUP, but I do think they should have the means to exercise some judgement over what's likely to irritate people pointlessly and put it somewhere where we can enter at our own risk. wink

But what gives anyone the right to decide what is likely to irritate people pointlessly !!!
We decide ourselves by not answering............ the thread moves down the page until it hits page 2 !!!
I dont want to be on a nanny site !!! Do u really ?
Hey, she's good in't she??!! Well said Blonde...I too agree that the boring threads are extremely tedious and have a lot of sympathy for Sarge's comment...but we have to put up with a little pain to live in a truly democratic society! biggrin

22 Jul 2005

Quote by Libra+Love
Members are free to post threads and respond as long as it's in keeping with the AUP.

And nothing that's been suggested will change that. In fact, it will enable people to post their "Look at me" stuff without having to worry about it getting locked, so those who like it will have even more of it. Everyone's a winner. lol

22 Jul 2005

Quote by alspals
but we have to put up with a little pain to live in a truly democratic society! :D

If I invite people to my house and some people are boring the arse off me, I might ask them to go to another room. That's because my house is not a democracy.
And neither is this website.
As I've said before, posting on someone else's website is a privilege not a right, and frankly it's a privilege that is becoming more and more abused by some incredibly selfish people.

22 Jul 2005

Quote by Ice Pie
As I've said before, posting on someone else's website is a privilege not a right, and frankly it's a privilege that is becoming more and more abused by some incredibly selfish people.

Sorry, Ice... gotta disagree here............ there is a trade off between a website owner enforcing HIS own rules and INVITING people to use the site. Too strict and the users will not return thereby negating the need for the site altogether........ too lax and the site is open to abuse.
Fair moderation by impartial Moderators is what's required here. Personal feelings should not even enter into it. If the rules are not broken then the post should be left as is.

22 Jul 2005

I kinda agree with Ice here. (yes I have had a severe blow to the head lol

).
In law there's two types of interpritation, the actuall written meaning and then the spirit in which the law was made.
Too many people seem to think that the former over-rides the latter.
Venus mentioned earlier that we could have a rating system for threads, where the number of posts decided where the thread stayed. Bad idea IMHO. People will post crap on a thread just because it'll keep it in the Cafe and they'll be using it to satisfy their own poor ego. It's a case of "I'm not breaking any of the rules as they're written, so what are ya going to do about it?" attitude and it sucks.
I know the mods here and I trust most of their judgement (sorry Sarge redface

:P :lol: ), OK all of their judgements, so why not have another area opened that's a dumping ground for the threads that 90% of people have little interest in?
Someone mentioned a democracy and in a democracy majority rules, so how about we start a poll (don't groan. We all like polls don't we? :lol: ) as to whether we start a new area for threads that don't appeal to the masses?

Quote by Wishmaster
As I've said before, posting on someone else's website is a privilege not a right, and frankly it's a privilege that is becoming more and more abused by some incredibly selfish people.

Sorry, Ice... gotta disagree here............ there is a trade off between a website owner enforcing HIS own rules and INVITING people to use the site. Too strict and the users will not return thereby negating the need for the site altogether........ too lax and the site is open to abuse.
To extremes of a very long spectrum in my opinion. What usually happens is that people reach a compromise. Those that respect the rules and like the place stay. Those that don't, don't.

Yep no problem with that, but I thought we were talking about moving threads that, in the fair and impartial mods view, wouldn't interest the majority of board users?

Wishmaster

Sex God

22 Jul 2005

Quote by easy
Someone mentioned a democracy and in a democracy majority rules, so how about we start a poll (don't groan. We all like polls don't we? ) as to whether we start a new area for threads that don't appeal to the masses?

What's the point?
If a particular thread doesn't appeal to the masses then it will simply slip off Page 1 and into SH oblivion - it won't need assistance from anyone. I really don't want to see a new forum filled with crap threads that no-one looks at - I could think of far better uses for a new forum - if we are indeed going to have one.

Ice_Pie

Sex God

22 Jul 2005

Quote by Wishmaster
As I've said before, posting on someone else's website is a privilege not a right, and frankly it's a privilege that is becoming more and more abused by some incredibly selfish people.

Sorry, Ice... gotta disagree here............ there is a trade off between a website owner enforcing HIS own rules and INVITING people to use the site. Too strict and the users will not return thereby negating the need for the site altogether........ too lax and the site is open to abuse.
Fair moderation by impartial Moderators is what's required here. Personal feelings should not even enter into it. If the rules are not broken then the post should be left as is.
It may seem to us as non-mods that personal feelings shouldn't enter into it, but I suspect if we were in their position and felt that the hospitality of the site was being abused, we'd struggle to remain dispassionate.
And I honestly don't think impartiality is an issue here. I think what Sarge is complaining about is a general trend, rather than a swipe at people he happens not to like, and maybe we all need to ask ourselves if we're responsible for contributing to that, because I think if we're honest we'll conclude that most of us actually are.