Discretion and the Morality Clause

21 Jun 2007

In the local paper, this is big news rolleyes

so I thought I'd bring it here for discussion. (I've edited out personal details...not that it really matters as this woman's face, name and personal info is all over the local rags anyway :roll smile

Perhaps as a timely reminder that the vanilla world really are still not open-minded, nor respectful of people's (our) personal discretion and right to a private life.

A school nurse who cared for children with special needs in Derby has been struck off from the profession for running her own pornographic website.
xxxxx, 41, broke down in tears after the Nursing and Midwifery Council's disciplinary committee yesterday decided her misconduct meant her fitness to practice as a nurse had been impaired.
The committee later decided that xxxx should be struck off rather than cautioned or suspended.
At the hearing in central London yesterday, xxxx, of Derby, admitted setting up a pornographic internet site and posting pictures of herself engaging in sexual activities.
But she denied her fitness to practice had been impaired as a result.
xxxx was sacked from xxxx School in November 2004 after an anonymous letter containing photos of her having sex was sent to the head teacher and chairman of governors.
She had worked at the xxxx school, which caters for more than 60 pupils, since 2001.
The Nursing and Midwifery Council heard xxxxx ended up with 500 members on her personal porn site after she set up the explicit web page on the age-restricted section of in July 2004.
Committee chairman xxxxx said they accepted that Ms xxxxx appeared to have a good working record but a caution or suspension would be an "insufficient sanction."
She said: "We have concluded that Miss xxxxx behaviour was fundamentally incompatible with being registered with the NMC.
"She was expected to uphold the good reputation of the profession. She manifestly failed in that duty and public confidence in the council would be undermined if she were not struck off."

I have in the past been bound, and know of several colleagues who are subject to a 'morality claus' in their employment contracts, which means effectively that any activity which is deemed to be detremental to the reputation of the profession (and they find out you're engaging in it) is summount to misconduct, and is a sackable & strike-offable offence :shock:
There has been alot of local support for the lady in the article, on the basis that what she does in her private life being exactly that - private - and as it doesnt affect her ability or approach to the 'day job and professional career, who the fuck are the NMC to decide that having her pics on a website is 'fundamentally incompatible' with the image of the profession?
I know there are alot of professional people on this site - so, what do you make of this?
It just underlines to me why discretion generally is (and should be)absolutely core to the swinging community, and why some to some people it is absolutely imperative - hence they are not able to post pics or 'go public' :cry:
What concerns me more though is that there are still people out there who, given the opportunity, can and will take pics/ vids/ stills from webcams and post them to your employer :roll: And given the scope of potential rejection, spite and people who just dont 'get it' in this scene, alongside the general chipping away of the importance of knowing who you're talking to and who's viewing/accessing your profile, gallery and advert pics here, its a risk many of us take every day :cry:
but...what do you make of it? wink

21 Jun 2007

I read this is a national newspaper yesterday and though "What a load of fucking bollocks!"
What really gets me is the fact that those people who complained and presided over the case will not be angels. They will be sexual beings and there is a high chance that some of them are more 'kinky' that this woman. They just haven't been caught.
The hypocrisy of it all drives me f*cking crazy!!!! mad

21 Jun 2007

Quote by Kiss
I read this is a national newspaper yesterday and though "What a load of fucking bollocks!"

Aye! - but a timely reminder to us all, me thinks wink

21 Jun 2007

This story brings to mind the furore about Sven Goren Erikson having an affair with a woman at the FA. His job was under threat because of his activities.
It seems strange that he and I guess others could lose their jobs because of this. Neither were married and no it seems would be hurt. As long as he still did his job who cares what he did in his spare time.
The case of the nurse is the same but possibly has a different emphasis. The nurse works with vunerable children and given most of the publics inability to seperate various sexual practices they presumably thought she would photographing the children or interfering with them in some manner. I have a gay friend who is a teacher who lives in fear of being accussed of 'fiddling with his pupils'
The pervertion feared is, I fear, in the mind of the accussers

21 Jun 2007

Quote by Darkfire
I read this is a national newspaper yesterday and though "What a load of fucking bollocks!"

Aye! - but a timely reminder to us all, me thinks wink

Sadly yes. However I don't do anything naughty on cam in the chatrooms and although I'm not 'completely' safe I only ever have cam fun on MSN when the other person is on cam too.
It is a sorry state of affairs and when you have tabloids like TNOTW suggesting that having a 3some is 'depraved' :shock: it's all too obvious how fucked up things are.
When Mrs Kiss was asked to take part in a serious BBC documentary about breasts and self image etc she had to ask permission from her employer. From the same employer that probably had copies of the Sun with it's page 3 pictures laying about. mad

21 Jun 2007

Quote by keeno
The case of the nurse is the same but possibly has a different emphasis. The nurse works with vunerable children and given most of the publics inability to seperate various sexual practices they presumably thought she would photographing the children or interfering with them in some manner. I have a gay friend who is a teacher who lives in fear of being accussed of 'fiddling with his pupils'
The pervertion feared is, I fear, in the mind of the accussers

I'm afraid I dont agree keeno, she was sacked and struck off because of the morality clause...and the fact that someone lifted her pics off the site and sent them to her employers out of spite (or whatever possible reason they had to interfere in her personal life & bring it to the attention of the NMC)
I dont think it was (as far as the NMC are concerned) anything to do with the children she worked with or any percieved risk to them etc. There has never been any suggestion that because she works in a school, the kids are in any way involved... its that she engaged in 'deviant' ( rolleyes

) sexual practices (by posting her pics on a website) and this doesnt sit well with those who are concerned with the public image of her profession.
wink

21 Jun 2007

What an awful story and how sad for the nurse involved.
Isnt it a shame that in an age where we feel liberated enough to embrace our sexuality and sexual practices there are still small minded bigots that will question your morality and the capabilities to do your job?
Yes, im a member of a swinging website. Yes I have posted adult pics of myself online. Yes I am bisexual. But No, this would never affect my judgement in the workplace and as for putting my morality in question I find that truly insulting.
What a messed up world we live in confused

21 Jun 2007

As a teacher .. non practising, I know that my membership on this site could put my professional life in jeopardy should I decide to go back to work at anytime. However because I hate hypocrisy I would take that risk and have no problems with having face pics on my profile. Having had experience with some sad people taking still shots from my cam and using them for nefarious purposes I know the upset this can cause, but 1 argument that the nurse could have used is that the person who sent in the pics (anonymously) must have been using the site to have seen them in the first place. This sort of activity ranges over all walks of life, and all types of people indulge, and as has has been so rightly stated who are they to judge? We have the examples of our venerated MP's who pontificate about morality and the next thing we find is they are all over the papers having committed the very crime they were moralising about. We have members of the clergy committing horrendous crimes against children and then going into the pulpit every Sunday and preaching to do it and police do it, members of every professional body do it. Hence I trust no one and give everyone the benefit of the doubt. Does my being a member of this site compromise my professional ablity to carry out my job efficiently? I don't think so but I know there will always be a vast majority out there who would say yes. However I'm really not that bothered about what others think anymore so long as my conscience is clear thats good enough for me.

21 Jun 2007

Stuff like this is so is a really nasty mentality behind it.I take it these so-called moral people have never had
I am amazed by some pics on the ads here showing faces and locations to clearly.I fear for these people in case of some such backlash against them.
I know from how my workmates and certain friends and family members talk we are a LONG way from swinging and alternative sexuality in general being accepted by much of society and the media whips up the misconceptions.I sometimes wonder if the reporters that do that have ever had THEIR cocks sucked or pussies licked.
Maybe not lol!

21 Jun 2007

Thanks Dark, this news is extremely unnerving.
It's certainly something new to think about for some of those members who were so firm in their opinions in this thread:
http://www.swingingheaven.co.uk/swingers-forum/viewtopic/120841.html

21 Jun 2007

Quote by Darkfire

The case of the nurse is the same but possibly has a different emphasis. The nurse works with vunerable children and given most of the publics inability to seperate various sexual practices they presumably thought she would photographing the children or interfering with them in some manner. I have a gay friend who is a teacher who lives in fear of being accussed of 'fiddling with his pupils'
The pervertion feared is, I fear, in the mind of the accussers

I'm afraid I dont agree keeno, she was sacked and struck off because of the morality clause...and the fact that someone lifted her pics off the site and sent them to her employers out of spite (or whatever possible reason they had to interfere in her personal life & bring it to the attention of the NMC)
I dont think it was (as far as the NMC are concerned) anything to do with the children she worked with or any percieved risk to them etc. There has never been any suggestion that because she works in a school, the kids are in any way involved... its that she engaged in 'deviant' ( rolleyes

) sexual practices (by posting her pics on a website) and this doesnt sit well with those who are concerned with the public image of her profession.
wink

As ever I didn't make myself clear. Yes the report stated it was her behaviour that lead to her being sacked but I would bet a sizable sum of money that in the backs of their minds was the thought that she was a pervert. In that, if she would post those images of her on a webpage she would 'naturally' be involved in other things.
So no she wasn't accused of interfering with the kids but it was in their minds when they made their decision.

21 Jun 2007

Quote by keeno

The case of the nurse is the same but possibly has a different emphasis. The nurse works with vunerable children and given most of the publics inability to seperate various sexual practices they presumably thought she would photographing the children or interfering with them in some manner. I have a gay friend who is a teacher who lives in fear of being accussed of 'fiddling with his pupils'
The pervertion feared is, I fear, in the mind of the accussers

I'm afraid I dont agree keeno, she was sacked and struck off because of the morality clause...and the fact that someone lifted her pics off the site and sent them to her employers out of spite (or whatever possible reason they had to interfere in her personal life & bring it to the attention of the NMC)
I dont think it was (as far as the NMC are concerned) anything to do with the children she worked with or any percieved risk to them etc. There has never been any suggestion that because she works in a school, the kids are in any way involved... its that she engaged in 'deviant' ( rolleyes

) sexual practices (by posting her pics on a website) and this doesnt sit well with those who are concerned with the public image of her profession.
wink

As ever I didn't make myself clear. Yes the report stated it was her behaviour that lead to her being sacked but I would bet a sizable sum of money that in the backs of their minds was the thought that she was a pervert. In that, if she would post those images of her on a webpage she would 'naturally' be involved in other things.
So no she wasn't accused of interfering with the kids but it was in their minds when they made their decision.
i'm sorry i have to agree with Darkfire...unless you actually read minds...how could you possibly say something like that!...she ran an adult website nothing more...if she had been accused of anything more without evidence to back it up...i'm sure she would have been taking her boss's to court!...

21 Jun 2007

Quote by keeno
So no she wasn't accused of interfering with the kids but it was in their minds when they made their decision.

I don't think you can make a statement like that unless you were there, Keeno. You can't possibly know what was in their minds, other than what they have said.
I do feel for the poor woman and I'd definitely have questioned the source of the pictures/information if I were her - because that source was obviously looking at similar material too.
Makes you more paranoid though, wondering if anyone is looking in here who could cause trouble. Then again, we have our own magazine (and members submitting articles) providing all the information that others might use.

21 Jun 2007

Quote by Mr-Powers

The case of the nurse is the same but possibly has a different emphasis. The nurse works with vunerable children and given most of the publics inability to seperate various sexual practices they presumably thought she would photographing the children or interfering with them in some manner. I have a gay friend who is a teacher who lives in fear of being accussed of 'fiddling with his pupils'
The pervertion feared is, I fear, in the mind of the accussers

I'm afraid I dont agree keeno, she was sacked and struck off because of the morality clause...and the fact that someone lifted her pics off the site and sent them to her employers out of spite (or whatever possible reason they had to interfere in her personal life & bring it to the attention of the NMC)
I dont think it was (as far as the NMC are concerned) anything to do with the children she worked with or any percieved risk to them etc. There has never been any suggestion that because she works in a school, the kids are in any way involved... its that she engaged in 'deviant' ( rolleyes

) sexual practices (by posting her pics on a website) and this doesnt sit well with those who are concerned with the public image of her profession.
wink

As ever I didn't make myself clear. Yes the report stated it was her behaviour that lead to her being sacked but I would bet a sizable sum of money that in the backs of their minds was the thought that she was a pervert. In that, if she would post those images of her on a webpage she would 'naturally' be involved in other things.
So no she wasn't accused of interfering with the kids but it was in their minds when they made their decision.
i'm sorry i have to agree with Darkfire...unless you actually read minds...how could you possibly say something like that!...she ran an adult website nothing more...if she had been accused of anything more without evidence to back it up...i'm sure she would have been taking her boss's to court!...
Just a cynical view of human nature, I guess. :roll:

21 Jun 2007

The thing is there are a lot of crap workers/bosses out there ballzing up their jobs and using any means they can to cover up and pass the blame on to other people to save their own necks, so outing someone is in their eyes, a legitimate means of distracting attention from their own ineptitude and incompetence. I've seen it happen time after time.
I'm just glad I am my own boss these days.
DD

21 Jun 2007

It never ceases to amaze me what information people put on the various sites about themselves, such as phone numbers, addresses, full locations, full faced photos, full faced videos, the type of employment they do etc etc.
Little wonder when the press are having a slow news day they go digging about to see what they can come up with, to join a site, like this is pocket money to them, and if it helps sells newspapers then all the better, even if they may have to wait a few months to find anything.
Hence the reason my face photos are in my private gallery, if I want anyone to know where I live in Milton Keynes I will be the one telling them.

21 Jun 2007

The problem is she agreed to those terms when she chose her profession, and NO I don’t agree with them and it is unfair but its like anything else in life always read the small print as they say, I think the fact she worked with children was a factor but that’s just my opinion, liberated or not the majority of parents will take notice when sex is mentioned in the same line as children, there’s probably a few teachers on here and they’ll probably use discretion as best they can, but isn’t running your own pornographic website when in that profession just asking for trouble? I think it is but again that’s just my opinion, Take Tommy Sheridan for instance, do you think the outcome would have been the same if he had his own pornographic website? Surely that’s just giving them the evidence they need to make their minds up in a society that thinks anything other than the norm is perverse.

21 Jun 2007

Quote by Xxxsexy24uxxx
Yes, im a member of a swinging website. Yes I have posted adult pics of myself online. Yes I am bisexual....
But No, this would never affect my judgement in the workplace and as for putting my morality in question I find that truly insulting.
What a messed up world we live in

:thumbup: - not only did they question it, they sacked her for it and struck her off the professional healthcare worker register!! :shock: mad

- which will I assume, come up on any future CRB check, so not only does she lose the 'professional' status, but any chance of working in nursing or with children, again.
Incidentally, several quotes in the local paper, including the headteacher, other teaching staff & parents indicate that the majority support Ms xxxxx. The 'issues' come from the school Governors who then passed it to the NMC.

21 Jun 2007

Quote by Darkfire
Incidentally, several quotes in the local paper, including the headteacher, other teaching staff & parents indicate that the majority support Ms xxxxx. The 'issues' come from the school Governors who then passed it to the NMC.

And who are the Governors of a School? The majority are laypeople, parents, members co-opted from the council, and often not professionals but in my experience people who like to big themselves up and enjoy the power that this voluntary position gives them. When the teaching profession allowed themselves to be hired, fired and monitored by outside agencies was the day it started to lose the professional status it deserves. (Does this sound bitter? Too bloody right it is. But that's another story)

21 Jun 2007

10.2

21 Jun 2007

don't start me off on BoG's Fabe lol

:taz:
bain of my bloody life! wink

it all certainly food for thought in terms of wht can happen when our private lives fall into the wronghands :wink:

21 Jun 2007

It does appear to be a problem with todays press yes but...
I can honestly say that I have no fear from anyone I have personally met or trusted my identity to on this site...
I choose carefully and have chosen well...

21 Jun 2007

A lot of the issues around this topic have always affected lesbians and gay men - and perhaps to a lesser extent bisexuals. In terms of swinging, it again raises the issue of whether it is a lifestyle choice or an expression of one's sexuality. If it is the latter, then it would be interesting to see if a person sacked because they were a swinger could claim discrimination under the Sexual Orientation Act :idea:

21 Jun 2007

If one publicises one's sex life in any way, it is no longer 'private', is it? It becomes available to be used by anyone who wishes to use it in almost any way.
Especially these days with the ease of reproducing photographs on the internet.
An unfortunate lack of judgement and trust, by someone who; understandably; only wished to fulfill their sexual enjoyment.

21 Jun 2007

Quote by Mallock2006
It does appear to be a problem with todays press yes but...
I can honestly say that I have no fear from anyone I have personally met or trusted my identity to on this site...
I choose carefully and have chosen well...

Of the people I have chosen to meet, I fear none.
I do have some reservations about people invited to events that I've attended and subsequently heard things about though.

21 Jun 2007

Quote by Freckledbird
It does appear to be a problem with todays press yes but...
I can honestly say that I have no fear from anyone I have personally met or trusted my identity to on this site...
I choose carefully and have chosen well...

Of the people I have chosen to meet, I fear none.
I do have some reservations about people invited to events that I've attended and subsequently heard things about though.
The only people I have reservations about are those who have appeared to be one thing yet turned out to be totally the opposite...
Thankfully those are people I have not entrusted with any personal information...

21 Jun 2007

Quote by flower411
Ok, I ve skimmed over this thread half digesting the comments but to be honest not reading everything in depth. Sorry if that upsets anyone
I have recently taken our face pics off our profile, for no specific reason, just had a bad feeling and as it happens my bad feelings are often right ""wooo wooo spooky !!"" and all that
But if articles like this are appearing in the press and shit like this is happening shouldn`t we be turning to our very own media team to do something ??
They must have contacts and they must be able to find out how to start petitions and who to give them to.
........

and you will be the first person to sign?
I am not sure I would be.

21 Jun 2007

This is quite a scary article regardless of what your profession is.
I'm appalled of the treatment of this woman. I'm a nurse too and what I do in my private life is just that, PRIVATE. I do NOT take it to work with me. I do NOT discuss my private life with anyone there and what I do in my own home bears no relevance on the care I give my patients nor my ability to do my job! My choice to keep my private life just that is the main reason why I won't put face pics on my profile.
Stories like this really make my blood boil mad

It reflects the double standards dished out by 'authority figures' all over the country. How many High Court judges, lawyers, doctors, accountants, headmasters and other professional people can be counted amongst the members of this and similar sites and would their professional abilites be questioned if they were to be 'outed'?
Maybe a little more discretion on her part could have avoided this ( ie, keeping face pics off the site ) but it still narks the fuck out of me all the same evil

21 Jun 2007

Quote by Sassy-Seren
This is quite a scary article regardless of what your profession is.
I'm appalled of the treatment of this woman. I'm a nurse too and what I do in my private life is just that, PRIVATE. I do NOT take it to work with me. I do NOT discuss my private life with anyone there and what I do in my own home bears no relevance on the care I give my patients nor my ability to do my job! My choice to keep my private life just that is the main reason why I won't put face pics on my profile.
Stories like this really make my blood boil It reflects the double standards dished out by 'authority figures' all over the country. How many High Court judges, lawyers, doctors, accountants, headmasters and other professional people can be counted amongst the members of this and similar sites and would their professional abilites be questioned if they were to be 'outed'?
Maybe a little more discretion on her part could have avoided this ( ie, keeping face pics off the site ) but it still narks the fuck out of me all the same

I'm almost certain there members of those proffesions in here, whats the betting none of them will post in this thread, or make it known what they do but they are ready to dish it out.

21 Jun 2007

teacher and school governor here redface