My son and I just looked at that site together Postie.
His words not mine "They look like holiday snaps"
Thing is, that's what i thought too. He should label that album "These are the days that will fuck with your mind".
How can you holiday at war when the very people you've come to defend are not just struggling to live from day to day, but living in fear confusion, total disruption and muh more?
BIG FUCKING HERO!!!!
You took some beautiful pics of the country you desecrated. But will you be showing your comic book labelled piccies to your grand kids one day?
AAAARRRRGGGGGHHHH!!!!
DIRTY FUCKING SWINE!!!!!!!!
We can argue about the morality of taking a human life till we're blue in the face. For me personally, if some asshole wants to take my life or the lives of my family/freidns/etc..... or change my way of life then he's gonna get some serious hardship coming his way .... and if I have to kill him to protect my life et al then so be it.... I don't have a problem with it. A cornered parent will kill to defend its young/habitat...... and so will I.
Are Post Offices military targets? No, of course not, but they are STRATEGIC ones and the Allies were right to take them out ...In GW1, Iraq were infamous for using hospitals/schools/factories etc as places to hold western civilians so that they wouldn't be bombed...... that trick didn't work in GW2.
What I do object to however, is politician's telling us we must fight when the reasons our soldeirs are being required to sacrifice their lives for are known only to the elite few. Did Saddam Hussein really need 'taking out'? Probably not, but he did control an awful amount of oil and America stood to gain the most by controlling it. (think OPEC etc.... must be nice to be able to regulate oil prices in the upward trend if you have Iraq's 1/4 on tap too.) And after Saddam?? .... more in tribe bickering till another hardline extremist emerges and the circle begins again.
As for abuse by Allied troops of Iraqi prisoners...... thats a fact of life and a dirty aspect of war IT HAS ALWAYS HAPPENED AND ALWAYS WILL...... if you put a gun in the hands of a young man and tell him to go kill LEGALLY..... he's gonna go 'berserker' at some point.
You may disagree with me on these points but history is a very good recorder of the truth. Show me a war where civilians haven't died...... such a war has never been fought.
This shit will always go on as long as one nation has mor fire power than the other
and as long as the gross product of some compamies is greater then the gross product
of some nations.
What does the so called civilised wolrd think they are. First they try and enforce there
religion, then they take away anything worth while taking, when nothing is left they move out and let the poor bastards get on with themselves.
But what chance habe they got to stand up and fight in a normal way? Open there mouth and get eliminated by Bush and they likes.
Please do not get me wrong. What they do is certainly not right but what else can they do to be heard?
And what did Bush say, who is not for us is against us, basically enyony not agreeing with him will feel his power sooner or later. When attaking Afagnisthan he did not even
know were the country is and we are supposed to trust him?
If you ask me, all this shit is about power and money and people do not count in this game at all whether it is Muslims or Jews or ourselves, when we are in the way of these guys upping there profits we will have to go. It is as simple as that.
From glancing through the forum I noticed this thread. I can see from the thread that people have very different views, which is not surprising from the amount of people on the site.
By adding too the thread I am voicing my opinion and it might offend some people which I apologise for in advance.
Postie: Thank you for adding the link as it has brought some reality to people on the site whether they like it or not. I personally like the vivid pictures as it brings a true view on what is going on/was going on unlike the TV and newspapers (which have to stick to guidelines).
KBUK: You view is first hand so I have to bow down to you as I have no idea of what you have been through or what you have seen. I could not have done what you did and without people like you where would we all be. So thank you for the time you gave.
Libra: sorry to say this but you need to open your fucking mind up. People died on both side for their beliefs. Some paid to do a job and some fighting for what they believe in, but when it comes down to it people died in some horrific ways but due to censoring we have no idea on what actually happened.
In my view the people that took the photos are just trying to remind themselves of the harsh reality of what they are out there for and to remind the world on what is really going on. If I had the balls to be out there I would have taken pics like that just so I can look back and see what I have gone through.
Enough said and sorry if I have offended anyone (Libra).
Mr Tigs (male half of tigersgobounce69)
All this debate has led me to speculate what would have happened if things had turned out differently when the German army had invaded Poland.
History has shown us that Germany in the early 40's was guilty of many of the crimes now being levelled at Iraq. Building banned weapons, internal oppression, ethnic cleansing, having designs on neighbouring territories. Everything bar supporting international terrorism, although with a stretch of the imagination, the Spanish Civil war could fall into that category - which, incidentaly, contained the first ever incidence of the use of weapons of mass distruction. . Even with all this going on, many still took their holidays in Germany, and Germany was seen by as the shining light of Europe.
There are not many that now question the wisdom of fighting WW2 - however, most of the justification for the war came AFTER the event, when the sheer extent of atrocities was revealed. The happened because for the first 3 years of the war, we were the ones that got our arses kicked.
If the British Expeditionary force, the French army and the Russian army had done what was expected of them, and kicked the German Armies butt straight after the invasion of Poland, (which Germany claimed was mearly the reclaiming of an histrorically German region which had been illegally given to Poland) none of the subsequent atrocities would have occured, and no doubt we would be debating today whether the war against Germany was legally or morally right. Was this little man really as much of a danger as those warmongering polticians of the time claimed?
As far as the two wars against Iraq are concerned, we have no way of knowing what WOULD have happened if the Iraqi army had succeeded in defeating the coalition forces. In the same way that if Germany had been defeated in 1939, nobody would have believed Winston Churchill when he stood there and said "Germany was about to undertake a massive programme of genocide which would have resulted in the deaths of millions of innocent people, they were building a huge army, within 3 years they would have huge rockets that could be fired from Gemany and hit our cities, within 6 years they would have had a thing called an Atomic bomb which would have the force to level a whole city" -- It is easy to say "where is the proof" - where would have been the proof that Germany would have done all these things?
As far as the link to terrorism goes. Terrorism, and suicide bombers have been around for a very long time, and is not the exclusive domain of religious extremists. The highest incidence of suicide bombings is by the Tamil Tigers, who are not a religious but a marxist based ideology. Suicide attacks for them are not a question of religious martyrdom, mearly a viable military tactic when combating an enemy of superior numbers and technology.
Christian and Islamic countries have been fighting since the time of the crusades - and probably before that - the roots of modern conflict were sown generations ago, and ever since, extremist terrorist organisations, and states, on all sides have been able to find ever new reasons for waging that war. These roots are not religious, but nationalistic, it is about territory, influence and power, not God.
Taking a time slice of the last 10 years and saying "This is why London was bombed" is to ignore the previous thousand years that this war has been fought in so many different forms.
Islamic Fundamentalists fervently believe that the Christian community is seeking to eradicate islam from the world by undermining the sovereign states where Islam is the majority, and can provide countless historical pieces of evidence to prove that.
By the same token, Christians could do the same, by pointing out that there are now more practicing muslims than any other religious faith in the world.
The fact is, despite all that has happened, we exist in a world today that has greater religious tolerance and harmony than at any time in the last 2000 years. There are still those who wish to fight the old wars, but with time and hard work, even they will disappear to become mearly a footnote in history.
Trying to explain all that has happened in the last few weeks by only focussing on recent events is myopic.
lhk
Kat
Oh my! Here we go again.... (but i love it..)
Ice Pie, hopefully I am not "selectively quoting" but you said it was wrong to target civilians... yet it is precisely what WE (our side) have done in the war. I mentioned it further back in this thread that legitmate targets defined by the US/UK include post offices and telecoms buildings (plus many others). Neither are military targets, only strategic but we accept that civilians will die in the bombing runs on these buildings.
So what I (and some other here) are getting at is the hypocrisy of when it happens to our civilians...caught up in a strategic bombing. I don't think anyone here is saying it is ok to target civilians. But the fact is we started this war. And yes, Muslims see an attack on another muslim country by a Christian country as a reason to defend that country. Just as we sided on mainly a hegemonous "western" lines against the muslim world, when 9/11 happened.
Lets not forget that we also bombed Iraq between the Gulf wars too, we had a blockade, and that people died in that. That we mainly side with Israel against the palestinians, that we backed Saddam hussein in his fight against the "Mad Mullahs" of Iran in the Iran/ Iraq war. That Saddam Hussein and the Ba'athist were installed by the American government. That we have a long and bloody history of taking what we want from that region and leaving a trail of death and destruction in our wake.
Lets not be surprised when a a tiny handful of them have had enough and wreck some kind of retribution on us. Instead let's point the finger at who really started this conflict, that has not only torn apart lives in Iraq and Afghanistan, but is now bringing war to these shores too...
well...think I got the solution.....BAN RELIGION.....
that way no muslims..hindus...buddists...christians..or anything
no excuse for wars
nor excuse for terror...
never know without religion we might just all learn to live together in harmony !!!!!
da69ve its not about blame its about governments accepting responsibilities for their foreign policies. Its also about moslem governments and their treatment of their own populations which allows individuals to be drawn towards the more radical elements within islam.
:roll:
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