Discuss away! (split from 'Explosion in London')

7 Jul 2005

Quote by Libra+Love
Tell you what....when the two of them finally get it all done and everything is blown to fuck....I'd rather be the one comforting those with lost loved ones(assuming mine are spared) than "discussing" who fucked up and is to blame while the carnage is still falling round us!!!!!!!

Gee, thats a might fine horse you have their Libra! How many hands? 25? Would you like a hand dismounting? Hmmmm
Sorry but seriously, I think the mawkish sentiments expressed elsewhere is annoying to me. I would rather debate with someone who has a different viewpoint, and maybe change that opinion, which may save some "arab looking fella" getting a kicking, than express some moral outrage or faux-sympathy.
Doesn't it cross your mind that there may be a reason this happened? We took it to another thread to keep it out of yours, go and play sympathy-nurse elsewhere if you have nothing to debate....

7 Jul 2005

Quote by postie
I saw the Blair speech with Shrub standing behind. Was it just me or did Bush look like he was trying to supress a smirk?
And it looked like he was thinking this:
" Oh Yes.... now it all comes together, we bomb them and then call them terrorists when they bomb us, then we'll say they are against freedom while we change the laws to incarcerate people without trial, then to stop the terrorism we stoked up we'll bring in I.D cards to keep tabs on the law abiding population, brilliant!!! Mwahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahaha......."

No it wasn't just you. I saw it too but I am sure that a few conspiracy theorist site might have a take on it but then that another story.

7 Jul 2005

Quote by postie
I saw the Blair speech with Shrub standing behind. Was it just me or did Bush look like he was trying to supress a smirk?
And it looked like he was thinking this:
" Oh Yes.... now it all comes together, we bomb them and then call them terrorists when they bomb us, then we'll say they are against freedom while we change the laws to incarcerate people without trial, then to stop the terrorism we stoked up we'll bring in I.D cards to keep tabs on the law abiding population, brilliant!!! Mwahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahaha......."

I'm with marmalade.....brave leaders have to take brave decisions and for the good of the world.....ask people in Iraq and majority are happy about the removal of Saddam. Ask most people of this country if they are happy about the bombing and quite obvouisly outraged about it. Thats the differance....if it was wrong or right is a matter of opinion but there is little doubt the removal of Saddam made the world a safer place. Howevr the people who have undertaked todays work are simple terrorists....small bands of people who are intent of causing terror....we should all roundly condem there actions and unite to show these people that they will never win and never break the spirit of the british people.

7 Jul 2005

Quote by Jags
My only comment - and it's a personal one:
I hope that all of the people complaining about the PM VOTED in the last general election. No vote = no voice. That's what we have a democratic system for.
If you didn't vote then blame youself for the government we have. You should not read into that statement either support or criticism for the current government.

I did vote and I can honestly say I did not vote for Mr Tony Blair. I know that may surprise you lol

7 Jul 2005

Quote by Jags
My only comment - and it's a personal one:
I hope that all of the people complaining about the PM VOTED in the last general election. No vote = no voice. That's what we have a democratic system for.
If you didn't vote then blame youself for the government we have. You should not read into that statement either support or criticism for the current government.

As a lifelong socialist, trade unionist and Labour voter i voted Lib-Dem in a direct protest at the Govts actions. I am proud to say my Labour MP is now an ex-Labour MP.
As the saying goes, Not in My Name!

7 Jul 2005

Lets be honest........
How many of us have the full facts on anything that's happening lately????????????
And if we don't have the FULL facts how can we possibly debate it???
All we have is propagander from all sides....... And a lot of gung ho comments in the press..
Other than that all I'd care to add is that of all the people I personally know ---- From many and varied religious and other beliefs -----
NOT ONE has ever given any indication that they approve of any form of violence...... In fact ALL people of ALL faiths that I personally know Condemn violence of any form.
So I do hope that people everywhere will stay calm and NOT try to retaliate against anyone whom they don't like the look of!!!!!!!
And if anyone reading this of any faith wants to say something - then say it to your religious leaders, your politicians, your people in positions of power and trust..... and especially to your God.
Here would be my prayer/wish/instuctions to my kids.........
For crying out loud........ Why the F**k can't we just all be tolerent, friendly and co-operate in making this beautiful planet a place where our children can be truly free..... and we can all get along and respect each other.
My apologies to anyone whom may be upset or offended by any comment made by myself....

7 Jul 2005

Quote by seagull69
My only comment - and it's a personal one:
I hope that all of the people complaining about the PM VOTED in the last general election. No vote = no voice. That's what we have a democratic system for.
If you didn't vote then blame youself for the government we have. You should not read into that statement either support or criticism for the current government.

I did vote and I can honestly say I did not vote for Mr Tony Blair. I know that may surprise you lol

Well as your from the Midlands that makes sense - TB's seat is about 200 miles North!

7 Jul 2005

Quote by postie
Gee, thats a might fine horse you have their Libra! How many hands? 25? Would you like a hand dismounting? Hmmmm
Sorry but seriously, I think the mawkish sentiments expressed elsewhere is annoying to me. I would rather debate with someone who has a different viewpoint, and maybe change that opinion, which may save some "arab looking fella" getting a kicking, than express some moral outrage or faux-sympathy.
Doesn't it cross your mind that there may be a reason this happened? We took it to another thread to keep it out of yours, go and play sympathy-nurse elsewhere if you have nothing to debate....

Oooo...look at you.
I give an opinion and I'm on my high horse. You give yours and it's more valid than mine? dunno

Sometimes it's good to be different. It's what you can learn from and how you treat those different to you that makes the differnce. Geddit? Cause our politicians haven't.

7 Jul 2005

Quote by deancannock
I saw the Blair speech with Shrub standing behind. Was it just me or did Bush look like he was trying to supress a smirk?
And it looked like he was thinking this:
" Oh Yes.... now it all comes together, we bomb them and then call them terrorists when they bomb us, then we'll say they are against freedom while we change the laws to incarcerate people without trial, then to stop the terrorism we stoked up we'll bring in I.D cards to keep tabs on the law abiding population, brilliant!!! Mwahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahaha......."

I'm with marmalade.....brave leaders have to take brave decisions and for the good of the world.....ask people in Iraq and majority are happy about the removal of Saddam. Ask most people of this country if they are happy about the bombing and quite obvouisly outraged about it. Thats the differance....if it was wrong or right is a matter of opinion but there is little doubt the removal of Saddam made the world a safer place. Howevr the people who have undertaked todays work are simple terrorists....small bands of people who are intent of causing terror....we should all roundly condem there actions and unite to show these people that they will never win and never break the spirit of the british people.
Please explain to me how the world is a safer place now that Saddam has been removed. How was Saddam a threat to world peace with his tin pot army. I personaly think the US and it neo conservatives are a very serious threat to world peace. They have an agenda and it is a very dangerous one.

7 Jul 2005

Quote by seagull69
Tell you what....when the two of them finally get it all done and everything is blown to fuck....I'd rather be the one comforting those with lost loved ones(assuming mine are spared) than "discussing" who fucked up and is to blame while the carnage is still falling round us!!!!!!!

I understand your sentiments but discussing who fucked up helps to understand the situation we are in and to find a way to a more peaceful world. I find it ironic that before i went on holiday to Russia. I was worried about bombs going off in Moscow in relation to the situationin Chechnya, and then this happens. I find it a very depressing day. Sadly I feel that the future does not look bright today sad

Thank you presenting it to me from a different angle.

7 Jul 2005

Quote by deancannock
I saw the Blair speech with Shrub standing behind. Was it just me or did Bush look like he was trying to supress a smirk?
And it looked like he was thinking this:
" Oh Yes.... now it all comes together, we bomb them and then call them terrorists when they bomb us, then we'll say they are against freedom while we change the laws to incarcerate people without trial, then to stop the terrorism we stoked up we'll bring in I.D cards to keep tabs on the law abiding population, brilliant!!! Mwahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahaha......."

I'm with marmalade.....brave leaders have to take brave decisions and for the good of the world.....ask people in Iraq and majority are happy about the removal of Saddam. Ask most people of this country if they are happy about the bombing and quite obvouisly outraged about it. Thats the differance....if it was wrong or right is a matter of opinion but there is little doubt the removal of Saddam made the world a safer place. Howevr the people who have undertaked todays work are simple terrorists....small bands of people who are intent of causing terror....we should all roundly condem there actions and unite to show these people that they will never win and never break the spirit of the british people.
Fine sentiments there Mr Cannock, so when do we invade Zimbabwe? :shock:

7 Jul 2005

Quote by deancannock
I saw the Blair speech with Shrub standing behind. Was it just me or did Bush look like he was trying to supress a smirk?
And it looked like he was thinking this:
" Oh Yes.... now it all comes together, we bomb them and then call them terrorists when they bomb us, then we'll say they are against freedom while we change the laws to incarcerate people without trial, then to stop the terrorism we stoked up we'll bring in I.D cards to keep tabs on the law abiding population, brilliant!!! Mwahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahaha......."

I'm with marmalade.....brave leaders have to take brave decisions and for the good of the world.....ask people in Iraq and majority are happy about the removal of Saddam. Ask most people of this country if they are happy about the bombing and quite obvouisly outraged about it. Thats the differance....if it was wrong or right is a matter of opinion but there is little doubt the removal of Saddam made the world a safer place. Howevr the people who have undertaked todays work are simple terrorists....small bands of people who are intent of causing terror....we should all roundly condem there actions and unite to show these people that they will never win and never break the spirit of the british people.
The people of Iraq may be happy at the removal of SH.......and I for one don't dispute that Iraq is probably a better place for his having been removed......However - most would also have preferred that the removal of SH didnt also mean the destruction of the country's infrastructure and major loss of civilian life.......I may think GB is a despot in the making at times......but I dont necessarily think the way to remedy that is to blast innocent americans.

7 Jul 2005

Quote by postie
I saw the Blair speech with Shrub standing behind. Was it just me or did Bush look like he was trying to supress a smirk?
And it looked like he was thinking this:
" Oh Yes.... now it all comes together, we bomb them and then call them terrorists when they bomb us, then we'll say they are against freedom while we change the laws to incarcerate people without trial, then to stop the terrorism we stoked up we'll bring in I.D cards to keep tabs on the law abiding population, brilliant!!! Mwahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahaha......."

I'm with marmalade.....brave leaders have to take brave decisions and for the good of the world.....ask people in Iraq and majority are happy about the removal of Saddam. Ask most people of this country if they are happy about the bombing and quite obvouisly outraged about it. Thats the differance....if it was wrong or right is a matter of opinion but there is little doubt the removal of Saddam made the world a safer place. Howevr the people who have undertaked todays work are simple terrorists....small bands of people who are intent of causing terror....we should all roundly condem there actions and unite to show these people that they will never win and never break the spirit of the british people.
Fine sentiments there Mr Cannock, so when do we invade Zimbabwe?
I was waiting for the attack on Russia for its activities in Chechnya, lol

7 Jul 2005

Quote by Libra+Love
Tell you what....when the two of them finally get it all done and everything is blown to fuck....I'd rather be the one comforting those with lost loved ones(assuming mine are spared) than "discussing" who fucked up and is to blame while the carnage is still falling round us!!!!!!!

Sorry Libra, I checked, and you didn't add to the debate. I may be wrong but it reads to me like you want us to stop "discussing"..... which isn't debating, if you ask us to stop.
You can have the moral high ground if you want it, I'm quite happy here in the gutter....
( im sailing too close to the wind here, and I don't want to get banned, so I am stopping)

7 Jul 2005

Quote by Jags
My only comment - and it's a personal one:
I hope that all of the people complaining about the PM VOTED in the last general election. No vote = no voice. That's what we have a democratic system for.
If you didn't vote then blame youself for the government we have. You should not read into that statement either support or criticism for the current government.

I disagree there Jags, a democratic system is there to allow you to vote, not to force you to vote.
At one recent (local) election I drew a line through all boxes and wrote "Intentionally spoiled", it was my choice and democratic right to do that.
Surely it should be just as much my democratic right to sit on my arse and put Trisha on.
Chris

7 Jul 2005

Quote by postie
I would rather debate with someone who has a different viewpoint, and maybe change that opinion,

Open minded then are we postie?

7 Jul 2005

Quote by JucyLucy
[
The people of Iraq may be happy at the removal of SH

There was an Iraqi Swinging Heaven...... ????????? lol

7 Jul 2005

Quote by Jags
My only comment - and it's a personal one:
I hope that all of the people complaining about the PM VOTED in the last general election. No vote = no voice. That's what we have a democratic system for.
If you didn't vote then blame youself for the government we have. You should not read into that statement either support or criticism for the current government.

our troops were already in Iraq at the time of the last election and its probably slightly naive to think that a change of government would have elicited a hasty withdrawal of our armed forces.

7 Jul 2005

Quote by marmalaid
I would rather debate with someone who has a different viewpoint, and maybe change that opinion,

Open minded then are we postie?
I like to think so... debating with someone of the same viewpoint is a but, erm, pointless.... and I could change my mind if you have an argument strong enough!

7 Jul 2005

Quote by postie

If only there had been :lol:

7 Jul 2005

Quote by postie
Sorry Libra, I checked, and you didn't add to the debate. I may be wrong but it reads to me like you want us to stop "discussing"..... which isn't debating, if you ask us to stop.
You can have the moral high ground if you want it, I'm quite happy here in the gutter....
( im sailing too close to the wind here, and I don't want to get banned, so I am stopping)

Well, as long as you know your place.
I posted an opinion, you not only disagree with it, but go into full blown attack rolleyes

taking a dig at someone's morals whether high ground or not is looking to incite.
I do peace. That's me. That's why I'm not a politician. And the mother in me tells me to care about people in pain. If that's the moral high horse you're takling about...hey mate...I'm ordering me a customised saddle!

7 Jul 2005

Quote by postie
In the main "london bombs" thread a few people expressed outrage at this happening and seemed to want to exact revenge on someone. But lets just stop for a moment and think..... because that may be the very reason they came here to plant bombs in the first place... we have bombed innocent people in their country!
As I think scandal said : we have sown the wind and we shall reap the whirlwind.
We invade another country, that had nothing whatsoever to do with the Twin-Towers/911 or Al-Queda, using 2 major armies of the developed world to crush a tin pot dictator. We destroy the infrastructure and we are still , even now, fighting an insurgency in which innocent people are killed by our side. That then descends into some kind of hellish nightmare of an occupation where the re-building of the infrastructure is given to mainly American companies.
We are complicit in the destruction of life in Iraq. There are mothers and fathers there who don't know why their kids were killed by us. I AM NOT saying the bombs in London are justified, but I am saying we have to look at our own actions first before we start to descend into some kind of "why us?....lets kick some ass" American-like reaction.
Tonight, some people are going to get beaten up, or worse, somewhere, just because they happen to live in the UK and look like an arab. It'll be the same kind of small minded hatred that fuelled Kristall Nacht in Nazi Germany.... And it stinks.
We started an illegal war, we bombed people, we smashed a country to smithereens just so we could grab the oil and sell the rebuilding rights to Mega-Corps Inc.
And if it wasn't a war for oil, why aren't we invading Zimbabwe or North korea? (or a dozen other tin pot dictators that are at least as bad as Saddam Hussein?)
Gawd... i'm going to get slated.... but it's my view, and lastly, I DON'T THINK IT WAS RIGHT TO PLANT BOMBS HERE EITHER!!!!

Wow, what a post worship

Sorry, can't add anything to this debate, only came in here to demand that JoeMiller like me!!!!! Then saw that post, superb :worship:
:jagsatwork: JoeMiller, get yer backside in my office now - and you better have your liking pants on!! smackbottom

7 Jul 2005

Quote by Libra+Love

Sorry Libra, I checked, and you didn't add to the debate. I may be wrong but it reads to me like you want us to stop "discussing"..... which isn't debating, if you ask us to stop.
You can have the moral high ground if you want it, I'm quite happy here in the gutter....
( im sailing too close to the wind here, and I don't want to get banned, so I am stopping)

Well, as long as you know your place.
I posted an opinion, you not only disagree with it, but go into full blown attack rolleyes

taking a dig at someone's morals whether high ground or not is looking to incite.
I do peace. That's me. That's why I'm not a politician. And the mother in me tells me to care about people in pain. If that's the moral high horse you're takling about...hey mate...I'm ordering me a customised saddle!
I think that there is a time coming very soon that those of us that do peace need to stand up and be counted.
"Stuff their f*4king armies killing isn't my idea of fun" SLF

7 Jul 2005

Quote by seagull69

Sorry Libra, I checked, and you didn't add to the debate. I may be wrong but it reads to me like you want us to stop "discussing"..... which isn't debating, if you ask us to stop.
You can have the moral high ground if you want it, I'm quite happy here in the gutter....
( im sailing too close to the wind here, and I don't want to get banned, so I am stopping)

Well, as long as you know your place.
I posted an opinion, you not only disagree with it, but go into full blown attack rolleyes

taking a dig at someone's morals whether high ground or not is looking to incite.
I do peace. That's me. That's why I'm not a politician. And the mother in me tells me to care about people in pain. If that's the moral high horse you're takling about...hey mate...I'm ordering me a customised saddle!
I think that there is a time coming very soon that those of us that do peace need to stand up and be counted.
"Stuff their f*4king armies killing isn't my idea of fun" SLF
maybe if those that do peace stood for election the world may become a more peaceful place........or maybe not .....

7 Jul 2005

Quote by Libra+Love
I do peace. That's me. That's why I'm not a politician. And the mother in me tells me to care about people in pain. If that's the moral high horse you're takling about...hey mate...I'm ordering me a customised saddle!

I think we are on the same side then Libra, I am against the bombing here and the war in Iraq. Andthe next war these two Muppets decide to start. In my original post I was trying to say that it will become tit-for-tat retribution if we don't discuss and maybe understand why we were bombed today.
Maybe, just maybe, someone who expressed sentiments in your "london bombed" thread will read it and not go out and increase the hatred as he seemed to want to do. Thats why I wrote that.

7 Jul 2005

Quote by JucyLucy
maybe if those that do peace stood for election the world may become a more peaceful place........or maybe not .....

If elections changed anything, they'd make it illegal to vote... lol

7 Jul 2005

:jagsatwork: :jagsatwork: :jagsatwork:
Mod's hat on:
Discussion and debate are more than welcome in this thread.
What won't be tolerated are personal attacks/ abusive posts or posts which seem to incite violence or hatred towards any ethnic or religious group which may or may not be involved in this episode.
Enjoy the debate!
biggrin

7 Jul 2005

Quote by postie

maybe if those that do peace stood for election the world may become a more peaceful place........or maybe not .....

If elections changed anything, they'd make it illegal to vote... lol

thought it was in some countries :shock:

7 Jul 2005

Hi Guys;
I am all for debate about the reasons behind the London bombs (or indeed any bombs from Madrid or elsewhere) - I just thought the other thread was the wrong place and someone would end up being offended.
Whatever the reasons, terrorist bombing is evil and wrong and usually attacks innocent people with no distinction. Where a government army goes to war they at least attempt to minimise civilian casualties.

7 Jul 2005

I think I am right in saying that it was the British that first launched a poison gas attack on the Kurds in the 1920's. As distressing as these pictures are they could come from anywhere not just Iraq. What about what Israel has done to the Palestinians. The Contra Death squads in Nicaragua sponsered by the USA. The list could go on. This government or previous governments don't give a damn about civilians all they care about is power and how much profit they can make for their big business pay masters.