Doctors to have annual test from patients......

27 Jul 2008

Quote by Freckledbird

excalty what am talking about,if you have to challenge then raise some facts not trying to outshine everyone opinions with absolute nothingness

:shock:
Like these?

Quote by Phuckers
am just suprised this form of appraisals has not been practiced with doctors but this new move will affect their heavy workload,remember doctors are contracted to 60hours a week

Hmmm, 'fact' is, Poshkate has said that's not true in her experience. Who did you get your 'fact' from?

Quote by Phuckers
a doctor spend nearly quarter of their lifes training for the proffession

So, going on your 'fact', doctors will die at around 28? I think this has already been commented on, so I won't labour the point.

Quote by Phuckers
now in revenge they introduce tougher measures to try weed them off the country....

And that is opinion, not fact. There are no facts to be found that support this opinion.
Phuckers, if you're going to moan at someone for not quoting facts, make sure that you quote some that are correct. Peanut was debating points - I'm sure if you were to check out his facts about his GP surgery, you might find them to be true.
You're doing the same as usual - being rude to someone who has presented an alternative angle to the debate from you. If you don't want people to do that, don't post contentious threads that people have strong feelings about that may not match your own. If you want to post contentious topics, be prepared for the fact that someone will disagree with you. Peanut's contributions so far, won't result in this thread being locked.
i think you are mistaking me with someone who gives a shit about your bullish overtone,you are forgetting am the OP of this thread so by quoating my phrases you have omitted alot...ask yourself why people are running away from being teachers and doctors and yet they are career promising proffesions
you are always very quick to make it out that am rude and arrogant,advocating for others to boycott my threads,if you check my early posting you are the first to suffocant them with absurd comments and you've personally been responsible for over 7 of them been locked...now you turn around and say am rude to peanut
God knows what will happen to the likes of me when you become a mod

27 Jul 2008

Quote by Phuckers
Lots of other stuff, then:
God knows what will happen to the likes of me when you become a mod

What on earth makes you think I want to be a mod, or that I'm likely to become one? :shock:
My comments to you weren't rude or arrogant - and it's not me who gets your threads locked.

27 Jul 2008

Quote by Freckledbird

Lots of other stuff, then:
God knows what will happen to the likes of me when you become a mod

What on earth makes you think I want to be a mod, or that I'm likely to become one? :shock:
My comments to you weren't rude or arrogant - and it's not me who gets your threads locked.
I loves ya FB. redface

27 Jul 2008

Quote by kentswingers777

Lots of other stuff, then:
God knows what will happen to the likes of me when you become a mod

What on earth makes you think I want to be a mod, or that I'm likely to become one? :shock:
My comments to you weren't rude or arrogant - and it's not me who gets your threads locked.
I loves ya FB. redface

Oh, bugger! lol

27 Jul 2008

Quote by Freckledbird

excalty what am talking about,if you have to challenge then raise some facts not trying to outshine everyone opinions with absolute nothingness

:shock:
Like these?

Quote by Phuckers
am just suprised this form of appraisals has not been practiced with doctors but this new move will affect their heavy workload,remember doctors are contracted to 60hours a week

Hmmm, 'fact' is, Poshkate has said that's not true in her experience. Who did you get your 'fact' from?

Quote by Phuckers
a doctor spend nearly quarter of their lifes training for the proffession

So, going on your 'fact', doctors will die at around 28? I think this has already been commented on, so I won't labour the point.

Quote by Phuckers
now in revenge they introduce tougher measures to try weed them off the country....

And that is opinion, not fact. There are no facts to be found that support this opinion.
Phuckers, if you're going to moan at someone for not quoting facts, make sure that you quote some that are correct. Peanut was debating points - I'm sure if you were to check out his facts about his GP surgery, you might find them to be true.
You're doing the same as usual - being rude to someone who has presented an alternative angle to the debate from you. If you don't want people to do that, don't post contentious threads that people have strong feelings about that may not match your own. If you want to post contentious topics, be prepared for the fact that someone will disagree with you. Peanut's contributions so far, won't result in this thread being locked.
Seems par for the course on this Forum. lol

27 Jul 2008

:karaoke:
We are the Mods, We are the Mods, We are we are we are the Mods
:karaoke:
Sorry. redface

Showing my age there.....

27 Jul 2008

Just a couple of points re this thread, in regards to opening times, people need to actually take this 'out of the box' so to speak.
What has happended recently is that new diretives have been introduced to extend consultation hours, now this is different from the actual times a surgery is open, we for instance are providing 2 and a half hours additional consultation (appointments) per week.
These have to be provided 'outside' of the normal times that your surgery has its appointment's, therfore if a GP finishes his surgery at , he/she may well decide to add that extra time on to his afternoon surgery, and therefore may not need to extend their opening times to compensate.
On the issue of 'out of hours and weekend care' well this stopped years ago, the new contract ( a direct result of Tony Blairs NHS Plan )gave GP's the option of opting out of these services at the weekend, it was only signed by GP's on that basis, and I dont think there were many GP's who opted to continue to provide that service. It must be realised that since that contract started, it became the responsibility of Primary Care Trusts to provide that care, not GP's, the responsibility ended for GP's at the end of surgery.
When that happened, Practice's had their budgets decreased to reflect that level of finance that was previously in that budget, so what happened is that many GP's formed locally co-operatives to provide that service, and would (and still do) work in after hours co-operative, maybe once/twice a week, but less than what they would have done in their own practice, this was particularly appealing to small practices, where GP's were small in number, as they wouldnt have to provide surgeries as well as after hour care on a 24 hour basis, that wasnt good for the GP, and it certainly wasnt good for the patient.
As for accountability, well General Practice receives much of its income from what are known as enhanced services, which are add on's to the contract that the GP has (with the local PCT). The PCT doesnt give the money over lightly, to give you an idea of what we get funded for over and above the contract, we get money for Access, Choose and Book, the new extended consultation times, and we also have to do an annual patient questionnaire, that does ask questions about levels of satisfaction, these are made public, and are available to you whether or not your a patient or not under the FOI.
No one i know rests on their laurels in General Practice, and yes it is a business, you have to remember that GP's are self employed independant contractor's and are responsible for their business in the same way anybody else is, that's fact, and it is clear that this government have moved Primary Care nearer and nearer to the Private Sector.
Next time you need any vaccinations prior going on holiday, check some of the Private surgeries that are out there for their prices (in some places twice the fees that our GP's will charge you).
Primary care, and providing care for patients is not about privatisation, its about trust in people that you know, and I for one would strongly fight for the role of local GP's and surgeries to be enhanced and strengthened, at the moment the road is one of division, scaremongering, and deep mistrust.

27 Jul 2008

Quote by Phuckers
i think you are mistaking me with someone who gives a shit about your bullish overtone,you are forgetting am the OP of this thread so by quoating my phrases you have omitted alot...ask yourself why people are running away from being teachers and doctors and yet they are career promising proffesions

If you genuinely don't give a shit then why are you wasting your time replying to this?
Was does being the OP have to do things? It doesn't magically give you immunity from your comments being assailable. You had a go at me for saying "nothingness" and for being non factual, yet when someone points out that you are guilty of the same thing you accuse me of the same thing and you get bullish and argumentative. So far you have not given any accurate facts in this thread so it is somewhat hypocritical of you to throw out accusations that others are doing it.

you are always very quick to make it out that am rude and arrogant,

You are. Either live with the consequences or change. It's quite an easy concept to understand.

advocating for others to boycott my threads,if you check my early posting you are the first to suffocant them with absurd comments

FB? "Absurd"? I think not, at least nothing compared to equating 5 years of training to "quarter of their lives". By the way, did you know that vets do 7 years of training, yet I don't see you defending them.

and you've personally been responsible for over 7 of them been locked...now you turn around and say am rude to peanut

I really don't care how rude you are to me, but when you come up with bull masquerading as debate then I point it out. Likewise if you are factually wrong or have an opinion based on erroneous data then yes I will say so.
What you can't seem to handle is people telling you that you are wrong (factually that is) or that they disagree with you. When that happens you spit your dummy out.

God knows what will happen to the likes of me when you become a mod

There is no God.
Now that we've all had a whinge and and a pop at each other can we get back on track please?

27 Jul 2008

There's the "Oh God" of Hangovers. Terry Pratchett said so :smug:

27 Jul 2008

Quote by Rising
Just a couple of points re this thread, in regards to opening times, people need to actually take this 'out of the box' so to speak.
What has happended recently is that new diretives have been introduced to extend consultation hours, now this is different from the actual times a surgery is open, we for instance are providing 2 and a half hours additional consultation (appointments) per week.
These have to be provided 'outside' of the normal times that your surgery has its appointment's, therfore if a GP finishes his surgery at , he/she may well decide to add that extra time on to his afternoon surgery, and therefore may not need to extend their opening times to compensate.
On the issue of 'out of hours and weekend care' well this stopped years ago, the new contract ( a direct result of Tony Blairs NHS Plan )gave GP's the option of opting out of these services at the weekend, it was only signed by GP's on that basis, and I dont think there were many GP's who opted to continue to provide that service. It must be realised that since that contract started, it became the responsibility of Primary Care Trusts to provide that care, not GP's, the responsibility ended for GP's at the end of surgery.
When that happened, Practice's had their budgets decreased to reflect that level of finance that was previously in that budget, so what happened is that many GP's formed locally co-operatives to provide that service, and would (and still do) work in after hours co-operative, maybe once/twice a week, but less than what they would have done in their own practice, this was particularly appealing to small practices, where GP's were small in number, as they wouldnt have to provide surgeries as well as after hour care on a 24 hour basis, that wasnt good for the GP, and it certainly wasnt good for the patient.
As for accountability, well General Practice receives much of its income from what are known as enhanced services, which are add on's to the contract that the GP has (with the local PCT). The PCT doesnt give the money over lightly, to give you an idea of what we get funded for over and above the contract, we get money for Access, Choose and Book, the new extended consultation times, and we also have to do an annual patient questionnaire, that does ask questions about levels of satisfaction, these are made public, and are available to you whether or not your a patient or not under the FOI.
No one i know rests on their laurels in General Practice, and yes it is a business, you have to remember that GP's are self employed independant contractor's and are responsible for their business in the same way anybody else is, that's fact, and it is clear that this government have moved Primary Care nearer and nearer to the Private Sector.
Next time you need any vaccinations prior going on holiday, check some of the Private surgeries that are out there for their prices (in some places twice the fees that our GP's will charge you).
Primary care, and providing care for patients is not about privatisation, its about trust in people that you know, and I for one would strongly fight for the role of local GP's and surgeries to be enhanced and strengthened, at the moment the road is one of division, scaremongering, and deep mistrust.

But they still kept the same ammount of money I bet. :shock:
If you give anyone an easier option to the one they are currently doing, human nature will always take over, to take the easiest option. I would do the same I guess.
My GP did 9 years of training...6 at Uni and a further 3 to specialise in another field. That's 9 years out of their lives. So on that basis I do believe they have earned the right to earn what they earn but....They don't work the hours GP'S used too. When I was a kid if we wanted a doctor we nearly always got our own GP out of hours, who would turn up, no matter what the time. Nowadays anytime after 6 and you will get a locum.
It seems nearly everything boils down to money now and GP'S are no exception to this. All about budgets and targets and percentages, what bollocks. What about the care and wellbeing of the patient first and foremost?
I for one have nothing negative to say about any of my GP'S over the years, and have closer than most contact with two of them when people close to me at the time and now needed them the most. They both went over the call of duty and for that I will always be grateful.

27 Jul 2008

Quote by Phuckers

Whilst I think they deserve what they get I also feel that they should be more accountable to the people they represent...the patient. So I see nothing wrong in these proposals.

Kent, you need to lie down - you just agreed with Jaymar and me!
aaw bless him, he's quite cute really! :lol:
Not a bad shag either...so I have been told. cool

:rascal:
who said this is a hooking joint wink

who said it isn't? :wink:

27 Jul 2008

Quote by Phuckers
i think you are mistaking me with someone who gives a shit about your bullish overtone,you are forgetting am the OP of this thread so by quoating my phrases you have omitted alot...

there we go, the nastiness has started... class!
On this thread Phuckers, on this occasion people are not agreeing with you... dummy spat out. End of.

27 Jul 2008

Quote by Rising
Just a couple of points re this thread, in regards to opening times, people need to actually take this 'out of the box' so to speak.
What has happended recently is that new diretives have been introduced to extend consultation hours, now this is different from the actual times a surgery is open, we for instance are providing 2 and a half hours additional consultation (appointments) per week.
These have to be provided 'outside' of the normal times that your surgery has its appointment's, therfore if a GP finishes his surgery at , he/she may well decide to add that extra time on to his afternoon surgery, and therefore may not need to extend their opening times to compensate.

Again, it's all about what the GP decides and it is usually what is convenient for the GP not what is best for the patient.

On the issue of 'out of hours and weekend care' well this stopped years ago, the new contract ( a direct result of Tony Blairs NHS Plan )gave GP's the option of opting out of these services at the weekend, it was only signed by GP's on that basis, and I dont think there were many GP's who opted to continue to provide that service.

90% of doctors opted out. In many ways it demonstrates the changing loyalties of the doctors towards their patients and veering it to their own convenience. After all they do need more time off to spend all that extra moolah.

It must be realised that since that contract started, it became the responsibility of Primary Care Trusts to provide that care, not GP's, the responsibility ended for GP's at the end of surgery.

Now there's so spin if I ever saw some. Yes it became the responsibility of the PCT and no it didn't "end for GPs", it was rapidly given away en masse. It wasn't like the responsibility was ripped from them. They gave it away at the first chance they got.

When that happened, Practice's had their budgets decreased to reflect that level of finance that was previously in that budget,

Yet more spin. yes the practices had their budgets cut, but the GPs wage itself rose by almost 25%.

so what happened is that many GP's formed locally co-operatives to provide that service, and would (and still do) work in after hours co-operative, maybe once/twice a week, but less than what they would have done in their own practice,

What you mean is that they became their own locums and attracted additional wages for what once came under their original responsibility and original pay grade.

this was particularly appealing to small practices, where GP's were small in number, as they wouldnt have to provide surgeries as well as after hour care on a 24 hour basis, that wasnt good for the GP, and it certainly wasnt good for the patient.

If the GPs can do it as a cooperative how come they couldn't do it as a practice? Again, it's all about the filthy lucre. Why do something as one job and one wage when you can do two things and get two wages?

As for accountability, well General Practice receives much of its income from what are known as enhanced services, which are add on's to the contract that the GP has (with the local PCT). The PCT doesnt give the money over lightly, to give you an idea of what we get funded for over and above the contract, we get money for Access, Choose and Book, the new extended consultation times, and we also have to do an annual patient questionnaire, that does ask questions about levels of satisfaction, these are made public, and are available to you whether or not your a patient or not under the FOI.

I do like the way you choose to use practices as examples when it comes to finances, when it's actually the doctors themselves we are discussing.

No one i know rests on their laurels in General Practice, and yes it is a business, you have to remember that GP's are self employed independant contractor's and are responsible for their business in the same way anybody else is, that's fact, and it is clear that this government have moved Primary Care nearer and nearer to the Private Sector.

yes they are businesses and yes they are self-employed, but they are doing it with public funds. This alone should make them accountable to the public who are funding them.

Next time you need any vaccinations prior going on holiday, check some of the Private surgeries that are out there for their prices (in some places twice the fees that our GP's will charge you).

These are private sales using public funds to subsidise them. Is it any wonder they can undercut the private sector? Private surgeries have to fund all the outgoings themselves from their profits, NHS practice surgeries don't.

Primary care, and providing care for patients is not about privatisation, its about trust in people that you know, and I for one would strongly fight for the role of local GP's and surgeries to be enhanced and strengthened, at the moment the road is one of division, scaremongering, and deep mistrust.

And who is to blame for the mistrust? Could it be that the profession (which actually I admire greatly even though it doesn't appear so) who has been revered and put on pedestals for so long have started fighting back for their own interests and in doing so have shown that they are just as much self-serving as any other professional group. When the reality of that hits Joe Public it's hardly surprising that there's blowback.
For example it doesn't take a maths genius to understand that the pressure in the surgery could be cut in half overnight (metaphorically speaking) by the simple expedient of paying GPs 50k and having twice as many of them. Let's face it 50k is no pittance for a trained professional and is far higher than most people's incomes. 100k is ridiculous for a public employee in such a cash starved environment as the NHS.

27 Jul 2008

Quote by Peanut
Just a couple of points re this thread, in regards to opening times, people need to actually take this 'out of the box' so to speak.
What has happended recently is that new diretives have been introduced to extend consultation hours, now this is different from the actual times a surgery is open, we for instance are providing 2 and a half hours additional consultation (appointments) per week.
These have to be provided 'outside' of the normal times that your surgery has its appointment's, therfore if a GP finishes his surgery at , he/she may well decide to add that extra time on to his afternoon surgery, and therefore may not need to extend their opening times to compensate.

Again, it's all about what the GP decides and it is usually what is convenient for the GP not what is best for the patient.

On the issue of 'out of hours and weekend care' well this stopped years ago, the new contract ( a direct result of Tony Blairs NHS Plan )gave GP's the option of opting out of these services at the weekend, it was only signed by GP's on that basis, and I dont think there were many GP's who opted to continue to provide that service.

90% of doctors opted out. In many ways it demonstrates the changing loyalties of the doctors towards their patients and veering it to their own convenience. After all they do need more time off to spend all that extra moolah.

It must be realised that since that contract started, it became the responsibility of Primary Care Trusts to provide that care, not GP's, the responsibility ended for GP's at the end of surgery.

Now there's so spin if I ever saw some. Yes it became the responsibility of the PCT and no it didn't "end for GPs", it was rapidly given away en masse. It wasn't like the responsibility was ripped from them. They gave it away at the first chance they got.

When that happened, Practice's had their budgets decreased to reflect that level of finance that was previously in that budget,

Yet more spin. yes the practices had their budgets cut, but the GPs wage itself rose by almost 25%.

so what happened is that many GP's formed locally co-operatives to provide that service, and would (and still do) work in after hours co-operative, maybe once/twice a week, but less than what they would have done in their own practice,

What you mean is that they became their own locums and attracted additional wages for what once came under their original responsibility and original pay grade.

this was particularly appealing to small practices, where GP's were small in number, as they wouldnt have to provide surgeries as well as after hour care on a 24 hour basis, that wasnt good for the GP, and it certainly wasnt good for the patient.

If the GPs can do it as a cooperative how come they couldn't do it as a practice? Again, it's all about the filthy lucre. Why do something as one job and one wage when you can do two things and get two wages?

As for accountability, well General Practice receives much of its income from what are known as enhanced services, which are add on's to the contract that the GP has (with the local PCT). The PCT doesnt give the money over lightly, to give you an idea of what we get funded for over and above the contract, we get money for Access, Choose and Book, the new extended consultation times, and we also have to do an annual patient questionnaire, that does ask questions about levels of satisfaction, these are made public, and are available to you whether or not your a patient or not under the FOI.

I do like the way you choose to use practices as examples when it comes to finances, when it's actually the doctors themselves we are discussing.

No one i know rests on their laurels in General Practice, and yes it is a business, you have to remember that GP's are self employed independant contractor's and are responsible for their business in the same way anybody else is, that's fact, and it is clear that this government have moved Primary Care nearer and nearer to the Private Sector.

yes they are businesses and yes they are self-employed, but they are doing it with public funds. This alone should make them accountable to the public who are funding them.

Next time you need any vaccinations prior going on holiday, check some of the Private surgeries that are out there for their prices (in some places twice the fees that our GP's will charge you).

These are private sales using public funds to subsidise them. Is it any wonder they can undercut the private sector? Private surgeries have to fund all the outgoings themselves from their profits, NHS practice surgeries don't.

Primary care, and providing care for patients is not about privatisation, its about trust in people that you know, and I for one would strongly fight for the role of local GP's and surgeries to be enhanced and strengthened, at the moment the road is one of division, scaremongering, and deep mistrust.

And who is to blame for the mistrust? Could it be that the profession (which actually I admire greatly even though it doesn't appear so) who has been revered and put on pedestals for so long have started fighting back for their own interests and in doing so have shown that they are just as much self-serving as any other professional group. When the reality of that hits Joe Public it's hardly surprising that there's blowback.
For example it doesn't take a maths genius to understand that the pressure in the surgery could be cut in half overnight (metaphorically speaking) by the simple expedient of paying GPs 50k and having twice as many of them. Let's face it 50k is no pittance for a trained professional and is far higher than most people's incomes. 100k is ridiculous for a public employee in such a cash starved environment as the NHS.
Compare that ammount to a barrister or a consultant, who have probably had to do the same ammount in years as a GP. No doubt you will find the above mentioned jobs pay far more.
It is cash starved for similar reasons as to why most other practises like schools are cash starved. The wastage is incredible. In NHS trusts there are ten times more chiefs than red indians. A red indian is paid 50p and the chiefs get 100 grand. Not a good example but think people know what I mean.
As I have said it is all about targets and figures and percentages now, done by the suited and booted brigade. The only people to suffer here are as always the patients. Nothing will ever change on that score. Get rid of a lot of the chiefs and the paperwork crap, and the money that gets wasted will be a lot less, which can go to giving the patients better treatment.

27 Jul 2008

Quote by Peanut
Just a couple of points re this thread, in regards to opening times, people need to actually take this 'out of the box' so to speak.
What has happended recently is that new diretives have been introduced to extend consultation hours, now this is different from the actual times a surgery is open, we for instance are providing 2 and a half hours additional consultation (appointments) per week.
These have to be provided 'outside' of the normal times that your surgery has its appointment's, therfore if a GP finishes his surgery at , he/she may well decide to add that extra time on to his afternoon surgery, and therefore may not need to extend their opening times to compensate.

Again, it's all about what the GP decides and it is usually what is convenient for the GP not what is best for the patient.

On the issue of 'out of hours and weekend care' well this stopped years ago, the new contract ( a direct result of Tony Blairs NHS Plan )gave GP's the option of opting out of these services at the weekend, it was only signed by GP's on that basis, and I dont think there were many GP's who opted to continue to provide that service.

90% of doctors opted out. In many ways it demonstrates the changing loyalties of the doctors towards their patients and veering it to their own convenience. After all they do need more time off to spend all that extra moolah.

It must be realised that since that contract started, it became the responsibility of Primary Care Trusts to provide that care, not GP's, the responsibility ended for GP's at the end of surgery.

Now there's so spin if I ever saw some. Yes it became the responsibility of the PCT and no it didn't "end for GPs", it was rapidly given away en masse. It wasn't like the responsibility was ripped from them. They gave it away at the first chance they got.

When that happened, Practice's had their budgets decreased to reflect that level of finance that was previously in that budget,

Yet more spin. yes the practices had their budgets cut, but the GPs wage itself rose by almost 25%.

so what happened is that many GP's formed locally co-operatives to provide that service, and would (and still do) work in after hours co-operative, maybe once/twice a week, but less than what they would have done in their own practice,

What you mean is that they became their own locums and attracted additional wages for what once came under their original responsibility and original pay grade.

this was particularly appealing to small practices, where GP's were small in number, as they wouldnt have to provide surgeries as well as after hour care on a 24 hour basis, that wasnt good for the GP, and it certainly wasnt good for the patient.

If the GPs can do it as a cooperative how come they couldn't do it as a practice? Again, it's all about the filthy lucre. Why do something as one job and one wage when you can do two things and get two wages?

As for accountability, well General Practice receives much of its income from what are known as enhanced services, which are add on's to the contract that the GP has (with the local PCT). The PCT doesnt give the money over lightly, to give you an idea of what we get funded for over and above the contract, we get money for Access, Choose and Book, the new extended consultation times, and we also have to do an annual patient questionnaire, that does ask questions about levels of satisfaction, these are made public, and are available to you whether or not your a patient or not under the FOI.

I do like the way you choose to use practices as examples when it comes to finances, when it's actually the doctors themselves we are discussing.

No one i know rests on their laurels in General Practice, and yes it is a business, you have to remember that GP's are self employed independant contractor's and are responsible for their business in the same way anybody else is, that's fact, and it is clear that this government have moved Primary Care nearer and nearer to the Private Sector.

yes they are businesses and yes they are self-employed, but they are doing it with public funds. This alone should make them accountable to the public who are funding them.

Next time you need any vaccinations prior going on holiday, check some of the Private surgeries that are out there for their prices (in some places twice the fees that our GP's will charge you).

These are private sales using public funds to subsidise them. Is it any wonder they can undercut the private sector? Private surgeries have to fund all the outgoings themselves from their profits, NHS practice surgeries don't.

Primary care, and providing care for patients is not about privatisation, its about trust in people that you know, and I for one would strongly fight for the role of local GP's and surgeries to be enhanced and strengthened, at the moment the road is one of division, scaremongering, and deep mistrust.

And who is to blame for the mistrust? Could it be that the profession (which actually I admire greatly even though it doesn't appear so) who has been revered and put on pedestals for so long have started fighting back for their own interests and in doing so have shown that they are just as much self-serving as any other professional group. When the reality of that hits Joe Public it's hardly surprising that there's blowback.
For example it doesn't take a maths genius to understand that the pressure in the surgery could be cut in half overnight (metaphorically speaking) by the simple expedient of paying GPs 50k and having twice as many of them. Let's face it 50k is no pittance for a trained professional and is far higher than most people's incomes. 100k is ridiculous for a public employee in such a cash starved environment as the NHS.
My you do have a bee in your bonnet dont you? Well your entitled to your opinion, and its quite clear that you have little time for GP's and you make some valid points, all I know is that the GP's and staff in my practice are working as hard as ever, and are not nearly earning the sums you suggest. I know because I pay the salaries, and manage the budget.
I also know based on the strength of patient questionnaires, targets that we consistently hit, feedback from patients, a happy staff with absolutely no manpower turnover problems whats so ever, a good reputation, an excellent appointment system, a first class recall system, a modern surgery, a forward thinking manager, a great team of Nurses, on site Physio, on site Health Visitors, on site counsellors and midwifes, that we as a surgery provide a first class service to our patients, and I am very proud of that.
I hope you get well soon, perhaps you should move abroad for your care, and see if you can get a Doctor at 9am to see you, let alone anytime after

27 Jul 2008

Quote by Phuckers
have never heard of load of twiddle today,the knuckle head government announced measures to tests doctors competence anually,a move where patients accounts of their GP will determine their future...i ask is this move really to weed out incompetent doctors or there a secret agenda behind it...

Can I ask why you think why you think it's a load of 'twiddle'?
Surely making sure a Doctor is peforming as they should be is the same as you or I having a Supervision session with ourLine Managers?People's health are paramount and I totally agree with the new proposal.
the only reason i think this is a gimmick is words in bold,letting doctors future to be determined but mere patients who might have there own agenda is wrong..doctors have always been assesed by governing bodies
i totally agree. I work in General Practice and KNOW that the general public are fickle creatures. As was said earlier a patient with a grievance eg being refused a sick note when they are fit for work or refused a prescription the GP deemes un necessary are all to ready to complain. This does not mean the GP is bad. Therefore is the patient the right person to judge a doctors compitence. I suggest not. A GP's compitence should be judged but only by an independant body that knows and understands the role and ethics of a doctor and the psycology of health care and how patients are equally able to manipulate the system as a fraudulent GP.
Annually the government decide a proportion of patients per GP practice to be given a patient questionaire in to assess the GP patient friendlyness and satisfaction and this is assessed already by the PCT. The GP has to improve upon this in the next year and so the general public does have a say.
In GP surgeries we are also obliged to display a poster telling patients how to complain. This is a negative way to deal with things and many of us have also added tothe poster if you wish to complement the practice please do so.
Some of us work extreemlly hard for a society that are ready to crucify the service when they dont get there own way.
This all said tere will be, as in all walks of life, professionals that act unprofessionally and i agree if proven to be incompetent then they should re train or move away to another field.

27 Jul 2008

Quote by midsprincess
<<excuse the snipping>>In GP surgeries we are also obliged to display a poster telling patients how to complain. This is a negative way to deal with things and many of us have also added tothe poster if you wish to complement the practice please do so.
.

I totally agree, you don't always hear of the compliments, that's a really good idea actually.

27 Jul 2008

Quote by winchwench
There's the "Oh God" of Hangovers. Terry Pratchett said so :smug:

and I have been worshipping it all day!! :crazy:

27 Jul 2008

Quote by noladreams30
There's the "Oh God" of Hangovers. Terry Pratchett said so :smug:

and I have been worshipping it all day!! :crazy:
rotflmao

I can vouch for that!!!
Hope you're feeling much better after a nap kiss

27 Jul 2008

Quote by kentswingers777
Let's face it 50k is no pittance for a trained professional and is far higher than most people's incomes. 100k is ridiculous for a public employee in such a cash starved environment as the NHS.

You really didn't have to quote all of that just for a few sentences on the end you know.

Compare that ammount to a barrister or a consultant, who have probably had to do the same ammount in years as a GP. No doubt you will find the above mentioned jobs pay far more.

Barristers are not public service employees, they work in the private sector and the average barrister wage is nowhere near 100k. Likewise the average local solicitor doesn't manage to hit the 50k sum let alone the 100k. Just because they charge £200 an hour does not mean that they get paid that much. I have a close friend who's a solicitor of 20+ years experience who can attest to that. Especially in light of the recent shenanigans surrounding Lega Aid franchises.
I'm not sure what you mean "as doing the same years as a GP". A GP is a fully qualified doctor and is an end in itself. It isn't a waystation role onto further qualification as a consultant or whatever.

It is cash starved for similar reasons as to why most other practises like schools are cash starved. The wastage is incredible. In NHS trusts there are ten times more chiefs than red indians. A red indian is paid 50p and the chiefs get 100 grand. Not a good example but think people know what I mean.

From day one the NHS wasted cash, these days they've just got it down to a fine art. The upshot is though that if you pay someone more for doing less then it's logical that something is being wasted.

As I have said it is all about targets and figures and percentages now, done by the suited and booted brigade. The only people to suffer here are as always the patients. Nothing will ever change on that score. Get rid of a lot of the chiefs and the paperwork crap, and the money that gets wasted will be a lot less, which can go to giving the patients better treatment.

As Rising admitted that he was in charge of his practice's budget, salaries etc then effectively he is in the same category as the ones you mentioned above (albeit a lot further down in the financial pecking order).
NB: this was a lot longer but this bloody login timeout ended in me losing the lot so the above is just the highlights.

27 Jul 2008

Quote by Rising
My you do have a bee in your bonnet dont you?

If you mean that it's something I feel strongly about, then yes you would be right.

Well your entitled to your opinion, and its quite clear that you have little time for GP's

Actually you'd be wrong. As I've already said I admire doctors for what they do as a vocation. What pisses me off is when greed comes to the fore and patients begin to suffer.

and you make some valid points, all I know is that the GP's and staff in my practice are working as hard as ever, and are not nearly earning the sums you suggest. I know because I pay the salaries, and manage the budget.

Me experience of GP support staff is wide and varied and in the main I agree with you. They do a brilliant and difficult job... for about a quarter of what their boss the GP is on.

I also know based on the strength of patient questionnaires, targets that we consistently hit, feedback from patients, a happy staff with absolutely no manpower turnover problems whats so ever, a good reputation, an excellent appointment system, a first class recall system, a modern surgery, a forward thinking manager, a great team of Nurses, on site Physio, on site Health Visitors, on site counsellors and midwifes, that we as a surgery provide a first class service to our patients, and I am very proud of that.

And so you should be, but then they aren't the topic under discussion. In my experience the para-medical staff ARE the NHS and are vastly under rated and in the main are taken the piss of by NHS management who treat them like crap (for clarity I'm not saying that you do).

I hope you get well soon, perhaps you should move abroad for your care, and see if you can get a Doctor at 9am to see you, let alone anytime after

Oh I can get a doctor to see me at 8am, 9am or even I just have to wait 2 to 3 weeks for the appointment.

27 Jul 2008

Not doing any quotes as they're doing my eyes in. :crazy:
However, one of the GP's at our practice is also a Parish Councillor. Our kids go to school together, and his wife was my Physio (privately.) We were on passing hello terms, the kids were invited to each others parties etc etc.....until.....
Along with our neighbours, we spearheaded major opposition to a parish council proposition for the village.
From that day, he has given us the cold shoulder. You'd think we'd tried to poison him. Unfortunately, this attitude followed him into surgery. Not all GP's are consummate professionals. An internal watchdog would be entirely unaware of his attitude behind closed doors.
If a broad survey was taken of individual GP's, hopefully the patients with grudges would become apparent. Asking patients for their views is the only way to get an insight into what happens when the surgery door closes.

27 Jul 2008

Quote by Peanut
Let's face it 50k is no pittance for a trained professional and is far higher than most people's incomes. 100k is ridiculous for a public employee in such a cash starved environment as the NHS.

You really didn't have to quote all of that just for a few sentences on the end you know.

Compare that ammount to a barrister or a consultant, who have probably had to do the same ammount in years as a GP. No doubt you will find the above mentioned jobs pay far more.

Barristers are not public service employees, they work in the private sector and the average barrister wage is nowhere near 100k. Likewise the average local solicitor doesn't manage to hit the 50k sum let alone the 100k. Just because they charge £200 an hour does not mean that they get paid that much. I have a close friend who's a solicitor of 20+ years experience who can attest to that. Especially in light of the recent shenanigans surrounding Lega Aid franchises.
I'm not sure what you mean "as doing the same years as a GP". A GP is a fully qualified doctor and is an end in itself. It isn't a waystation role onto further qualification as a consultant or whatever.

It is cash starved for similar reasons as to why most other practises like schools are cash starved. The wastage is incredible. In NHS trusts there are ten times more chiefs than red indians. A red indian is paid 50p and the chiefs get 100 grand. Not a good example but think people know what I mean.

From day one the NHS wasted cash, these days they've just got it down to a fine art. The upshot is though that if you pay someone more for doing less then it's logical that something is being wasted.

As I have said it is all about targets and figures and percentages now, done by the suited and booted brigade. The only people to suffer here are as always the patients. Nothing will ever change on that score. Get rid of a lot of the chiefs and the paperwork crap, and the money that gets wasted will be a lot less, which can go to giving the patients better treatment.

As Rising admitted that he was in charge of his practice's budget, salaries etc then effectively he is in the same category as the ones you mentioned above (albeit a lot further down in the financial pecking order).
NB: this was a lot longer but this bloody login timeout ended in me losing the lot so the above is just the highlights.
You me old cocker have far too much time on your hands. lol

27 Jul 2008

Quote by midsprincess
have never heard of load of twiddle today,the knuckle head government announced measures to tests doctors competence anually,a move where patients accounts of their GP will determine their future...i ask is this move really to weed out incompetent doctors or there a secret agenda behind it...

Can I ask why you think why you think it's a load of 'twiddle'?
Surely making sure a Doctor is peforming as they should be is the same as you or I having a Supervision session with ourLine Managers?People's health are paramount and I totally agree with the new proposal.
the only reason i think this is a gimmick is words in bold,letting doctors future to be determined but mere patients who might have there own agenda is wrong..doctors have always been assesed by governing bodies
i totally agree. I work in General Practice and KNOW that the general public are fickle creatures. As was said earlier a patient with a grievance eg being refused a sick note when they are fit for work or refused a prescription the GP deemes un necessary are all to ready to complain. This does not mean the GP is bad. Therefore is the patient the right person to judge a doctors compitence. I suggest not. A GP's compitence should be judged but only by an independant body that knows and understands the role and ethics of a doctor and the psycology of health care and how patients are equally able to manipulate the system as a fraudulent GP.
Annually the government decide a proportion of patients per GP practice to be given a patient questionaire in to assess the GP patient friendlyness and satisfaction and this is assessed already by the PCT. The GP has to improve upon this in the next year and so the general public does have a say.
In GP surgeries we are also obliged to display a poster telling patients how to complain. This is a negative way to deal with things and many of us have also added tothe poster if you wish to complement the practice please do so.
Some of us work extreemlly hard for a society that are ready to crucify the service when they dont get there own way.
This all said tere will be, as in all walks of life, professionals that act unprofessionally and i agree if proven to be incompetent then they should re train or move away to another field.
:thumbup: