Continuing a tradition started with the first Essex Munch, here is a detailed breakdown of the finances for the second Essex Munch.
When we sent the venue details PM, we had 112 people on the guest list. Since this Munch was not intended to make a profit for charity, and we had around 90% of people on the PM list attend last time, we decided to reduce the suggested door contribution from £3 to £2. This would allow us to cover our costs and surprise our DJ Alex (who was donating his services free of charge) with a few bob to cover his equipment and travel.
We had a total of 33 cancellations in the 2 weeks after the PM was sent out, leaving us with 79 attendees, which would have brought us close to breaking even on the event, however, 21 people who had confirmed did not attend, leaving us with just 56 guests on the night.
Here are the final figures:
EXPENDITURE
Room hire
Badges/badge holders (some left over from previous munch, rest bought)
DJ: (Alex of AlexClaireCameron from Swinging Heaven worked for free)
Bouncers/door staff: (thanks to everyone who took a turn)
Total outgoings:
INCOME
Door takings (56 attendees, suggested donation £2 per head, thanks to those who gave extra):
LOSS
I'd like to thank everyone who attended and made is such a great night, and specifically Marcuso for offering to organise a whip-round to cover the loss, but as munch organiser I felt I would be doing the SH community a favour if I bit the bullet and used the fact that the event made an unexpected loss as a discussion-starter.
While I realise that many people have genuine reasons for having to cancel, and am very grateful to those on the list to wrote to explain and wish us well, I feel that we have a serious problem with the number of cancellations that the community should talk about.
There seems to be a trend of 'put your name down for everything and cancel later' emerging. I'm not sure what the solution is, and I'm willing to admit that the tendency of lists to close long before the event in question might be at least a partial cause of the problem, but I think it needs discussion, before someone makes a much larger unexpected loss, or organisers start to oversubscribe venues to ensure a reasonable number of people actually turn up. Over to you...
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Essex Munch II Accounts and Discussion
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Interesting question!
I had expressed my intention to attend both the Herts Munch and Wishmaster's birthday party but had to cancel on both unfortunately as I stupidly double booked myself - this was mostly because I'd not checked my diary properly, a commitment I couldn't back out of and to an extent, signing up for the party so far in advance that I forgot I'd made the commitment
I think it's a difficult situation, as giving people too much notice of an event can lead to them forgetting dates (like me!) and of course not enough notice makes planning difficult for organisers - but perhaps a limit on how far in advance something is advertised, say 1 month, would help in avoiding drop outs.
As for people cancelling, there's no excuse for not letting people know by PM/email/phone unless something really terrible happens. Maybe organisers can keep a list of people who are no-shows with no explanation and adopt a three strikes and you're out attitude, although that would affect the "everyone's welcome" nature of munches.
Would setting up a Paypal account for munches work better? where everyone pays the cover charge in advance? it's not a huge sum of a money if they decide not to go and lose the cash but it's not fair for organisers to be out of pocket.
Tricky subject.
I had expressed my intention to attend both the Herts Munch and Wishmaster's birthday party but had to cancel on both unfortunately as I stupidly double booked myself - this was mostly because I'd not checked my diary properly, a commitment I couldn't back out of and to an extent, signing up for the party so far in advance that I forgot I'd made the commitment
I think it's a difficult situation, as giving people too much notice of an event can lead to them forgetting dates (like me!) and of course not enough notice makes planning difficult for organisers - but perhaps a limit on how far in advance something is advertised, say 1 month, would help in avoiding drop outs.
As for people cancelling, there's no excuse for not letting people know by PM/email/phone unless something really terrible happens. Maybe organisers can keep a list of people who are no-shows with no explanation and adopt a three strikes and you're out attitude, although that would affect the "everyone's welcome" nature of munches.
Would setting up a Paypal account for munches work better? where everyone pays the cover charge in advance? it's not a huge sum of a money if they decide not to go and lose the cash but it's not fair for organisers to be out of pocket.
Tricky subject.
Has there been a pattern to who says they will attend and who's says they will not?
Perhaps newbies, get the gitters at the last moment and pull out?, Something like that.
How about having a standby list as well as your primary list? Your Primary list would consist of your regular attendees that are likely to always show and your standby list could be of Newbies couples/singles and pervious people that have repeatedly not shown or pulled out.
That way when a primary list person has to cancel, a suitable secondary person could be selected on the primary requirement (a couple for a couple or a single for a single)
Also I think you've gonna always have no-show's.. Maybe tell people that the limit of the hall etc is 150 when in fact its actually 125 just to cover sum costs... This way you are
allowing for the no-shows... Though that does pose a problem if they all turn up? But most venues wont have to much of a problem with a few extra people as long as you dont pack'em out...and abuse the venue.
Also increase the entrance fee by at least 50 pence, £5 a couple is very reasonable
Perhaps newbies, get the gitters at the last moment and pull out?, Something like that.
How about having a standby list as well as your primary list? Your Primary list would consist of your regular attendees that are likely to always show and your standby list could be of Newbies couples/singles and pervious people that have repeatedly not shown or pulled out.
That way when a primary list person has to cancel, a suitable secondary person could be selected on the primary requirement (a couple for a couple or a single for a single)
Also I think you've gonna always have no-show's.. Maybe tell people that the limit of the hall etc is 150 when in fact its actually 125 just to cover sum costs... This way you are
allowing for the no-shows... Though that does pose a problem if they all turn up? But most venues wont have to much of a problem with a few extra people as long as you dont pack'em out...and abuse the venue.
Also increase the entrance fee by at least 50 pence, £5 a couple is very reasonable
: 
Sex God
Clearly no one should be out of pocket with these things, but just how you make sure that you cover your costs isn't going to be easy.
suggestions such as non refundable deposits, an excessive charge at the door with a refund at the end, will no doubt come in, but are in themselves a pain in the arse to administer, either during the build up or on the night itself. You've already said that you had bumped the charge by a few coppers in the hope that you could give alex the DJ a drink out of it (absolutely right) but that the bump just wasn't big enough. Perhaps the only way is to have a bigger bump so that you do cover your costs including a drink for them that gave their time and if there is still some left, then fire it off to some charity. At the end of the day you gotta cover your costs and the munchers have got to trust you to use any excess appropriately. For my money you and those that helped you, could have a bloody good sunday lunch on it as a reward for a job well done, but that goes against the 'no profit' ethos.
I wish you had allowed marcuso to make a collection cos I doubt there was a person there that didn't recognise how well every aspect of the thing was organised and would have dug in their pockets for the few pennies that would have squared the thing for you.
The problem of the no shows is just as difficult because some will be genuine, lets face it we all have things crop up that mean we have to change plans, sometimes at the last minute and some will have put their name down with no real intention of turning up. it's a bugger, but it's life.
suggestions such as non refundable deposits, an excessive charge at the door with a refund at the end, will no doubt come in, but are in themselves a pain in the arse to administer, either during the build up or on the night itself. You've already said that you had bumped the charge by a few coppers in the hope that you could give alex the DJ a drink out of it (absolutely right) but that the bump just wasn't big enough. Perhaps the only way is to have a bigger bump so that you do cover your costs including a drink for them that gave their time and if there is still some left, then fire it off to some charity. At the end of the day you gotta cover your costs and the munchers have got to trust you to use any excess appropriately. For my money you and those that helped you, could have a bloody good sunday lunch on it as a reward for a job well done, but that goes against the 'no profit' ethos.
I wish you had allowed marcuso to make a collection cos I doubt there was a person there that didn't recognise how well every aspect of the thing was organised and would have dug in their pockets for the few pennies that would have squared the thing for you.
The problem of the no shows is just as difficult because some will be genuine, lets face it we all have things crop up that mean we have to change plans, sometimes at the last minute and some will have put their name down with no real intention of turning up. it's a bugger, but it's life.
Sex God
it is a very tricky subject.......
as the organsor of the last north east munch, and the next one i take the view that i am fully prepared to underwrite all the costs regardless... i get as much out of organising and the finished product as everyone else.... i didn't charge for the last one and i won't charge for this one, i have budgeted for everything and i know i can afford to do it... although i know that a lot of people probably could not
there was a whip round for the last one that would have underwritten the costs but i was of the view that should go to charity and if there is one done at the next north east munch i will do the same again......
i suppose it is going to vary from event to event.... the biggest problem is people who confirm and then don't let people know for any reason, i know that for the wigan mini munch... so many people wanted to go that they changed the venue and got a bigger one, only for so many people to pull out/no show that the original venue would have been big enough....
sean xxxxxxxx
as the organsor of the last north east munch, and the next one i take the view that i am fully prepared to underwrite all the costs regardless... i get as much out of organising and the finished product as everyone else.... i didn't charge for the last one and i won't charge for this one, i have budgeted for everything and i know i can afford to do it... although i know that a lot of people probably could not
there was a whip round for the last one that would have underwritten the costs but i was of the view that should go to charity and if there is one done at the next north east munch i will do the same again......
i suppose it is going to vary from event to event.... the biggest problem is people who confirm and then don't let people know for any reason, i know that for the wigan mini munch... so many people wanted to go that they changed the venue and got a bigger one, only for so many people to pull out/no show that the original venue would have been big enough....
sean xxxxxxxx
Quote by Shikukai
Has there been a pattern to who says they will attend and who's says they will not?
Perhaps newbies, get the gitters at the last moment and pull out?, Something like that.
There isn't really a pattern at all. Nervous newbies are slightly less likely to attend, but the whole point of munches is for newbies to have a way of meeting the regulars in an unpressured environment, and to see if they 'fit in'. It's easy to watch the regulars having a laugh in a pub and lose track of the reason for it all, but looking back on the events I've been involved in, the thing I'm most proud of is the way some new people arrive nervous and shy and leave grinning from ear to ear having found a crowd of like-minded (or even lick minded as I originally mistyped that!) they are glad to 'belong to'.
Quote by Shikukai
How about having a standby list as well as your primary list? Your Primary list would consist of your regular attendees that are likely to always show and your standby list could be of Newbies couples/singles and pervious people that have repeatedly not shown or pulled out.
We already do something very similar to this, just to filter out the sort of newbies that disappear from the site after a brief flurry of posts. I know I would not be happy to make our definition of how much of an 'active site member' you must be to get an invite any stricter, since I know we would have lost some great people who only just qualified with the limit we currently set.
Quote by Shikukai
That way when a primary list person has to cancel, a suitable secondary person could be selected on the primary requirement (a couple for a couple or a single for a single)
This would actually be against the munch rules. We must treat couples/single females/single males in exactly the same way, in order to be fair.
Quote by Shikukai
Also I think you've gonna always have no-show's.. Maybe tell people that the limit of the hall etc is 150 when in fact its actually 125 just to cover sum costs... This way you are allowing for the no-shows... Though that does pose a problem if they all turn up? But most venues wont have to much of a problem with a few extra people as long as you dont pack'em out...and abuse the venue.
Luckily our venue would have increased the space we had if we needed more, so we did not have a problem with an upper limit, but I can see this is already a problem for other organisers.
Quote by Shikukai
Also increase the entrance fee by at least 50 pence, £5 a couple is very reasonable
With hindsight, we should have done this, it would actually have been 50p a head less than the first Essex Munch, but if we had 112 people turn up, we would have ended up with over £100 profit. The munch rules wisely prohibit making money from munches, even if profits are subsequently donated to a worthy charity. Maybe we need some system for dealing with this eventuality?
Quote by fabio grooverider
it is a very tricky subject.......
as the organsor of the last north east munch, and the next one i take the view that i am fully prepared to underwrite all the costs regardless... i get as much out of organising and the finished product as everyone else.... i didn't charge for the last one and i won't charge for this one, i have budgeted for everything and i know i can afford to do it... although i know that a lot of people probably could not
I think you've hit the nail on the head there. I went into this event knowing that if noone turned up I'd be severely out of pocket, and at the end of the day I ended up paying less than I've spent on petrol to get to other munches, but I suspect that this issue is enough to put others off organising munches, and it's certainly put me off running an event any closer to central London, where room hire would be pricier. As it stands, we couldn't have used the venue we did have if we were paying for their DJ or having a buffet. Other venues we looked at wanted up to £1500 for a suitable room, and up to £15 a head for a buffet meal!
Quote by fabio grooverider
... i know that for the wigan mini munch... so many people wanted to go that they changed the venue and got a bigger one, only for so many people to pull out/no show that the original venue would have been big enough
Exactly. This trend is why I'm sticking my hand in the air now and saying 'we have a problem'.
No organiser should have to be out of pockets for what's supposed to be a fun event, because in the end you'll have less fun financially!
Perhaps make a point in the next Munch sticky the cost will be between £2 to £3. Charge £2 on the door and if a loss has been made then ask for the additional (Going on your pervious numbers) I cant see many people having a problem with that as long as it was stated on the original post?...
I do apologise if this doesn't make sense or isn't possible to implement, as I simply dont know the rules to arranging a Munch, that and the fact that we are new to the forum also.
Thanks for pointing out the faults in my previous post as well.
Perhaps make a point in the next Munch sticky the cost will be between £2 to £3. Charge £2 on the door and if a loss has been made then ask for the additional (Going on your pervious numbers) I cant see many people having a problem with that as long as it was stated on the original post?...
I do apologise if this doesn't make sense or isn't possible to implement, as I simply dont know the rules to arranging a Munch, that and the fact that we are new to the forum also.
Thanks for pointing out the faults in my previous post as well.
As I've never organised a munch and am only aware of venues in my,or my parents area, this is a genuine question.
Is it not possible to get venues where there is no charge, or a lot cheaper charge?
I'm aware that there are a few in this area and in B/Head/Liverpool where you can use a place and the cost is covered by their increased bar sales , or a nominal fee of
Rugby & social clubs tend to do very cheap venue hire as well.
As I say, I've never organised one, and it may be to get the current locations, you are having to pay more, is it worth thinking about moving them slightly off the beaten trail?
Sorry if I'm completely off track with this.
Jas
XXX
Is it not possible to get venues where there is no charge, or a lot cheaper charge?
I'm aware that there are a few in this area and in B/Head/Liverpool where you can use a place and the cost is covered by their increased bar sales , or a nominal fee of
Rugby & social clubs tend to do very cheap venue hire as well.
As I say, I've never organised one, and it may be to get the current locations, you are having to pay more, is it worth thinking about moving them slightly off the beaten trail?
Sorry if I'm completely off track with this.
Jas
XXX
Babe,
I hear what you are saying...... and agree completely....... that no-one should have been out of pocket !............ I dont understand why u didnt just ask everyone for a quid as they left.......... I am sure no-one would have objected !!
However, in defence of the people who didn't show up............ I think u should read the thread !!! At times it looked like the event was off............ I believe your co-host told the chatroom she was cancelling it.......... so is it really that much of a surprise if some people thought travelling to essex to a "Non event" might just be a bit of a waste of time ?
Like I said............. we had a great time......... it was good to meet old faces and new......... but I do understand...... why on this occasion......... some people didnt attend !!
Soz babe.......... dont mean to offend.................... but I have to say it like it is.........coz we do that on my planet !!! lol
I hear what you are saying...... and agree completely....... that no-one should have been out of pocket !............ I dont understand why u didnt just ask everyone for a quid as they left.......... I am sure no-one would have objected !!
However, in defence of the people who didn't show up............ I think u should read the thread !!! At times it looked like the event was off............ I believe your co-host told the chatroom she was cancelling it.......... so is it really that much of a surprise if some people thought travelling to essex to a "Non event" might just be a bit of a waste of time ?
Like I said............. we had a great time......... it was good to meet old faces and new......... but I do understand...... why on this occasion......... some people didnt attend !!
Soz babe.......... dont mean to offend.................... but I have to say it like it is.........coz we do that on my planet !!! lol
Sex God
Quote by Jas-Tim
As I've never organised a munch and am only aware of venues in my,or my parents area, this is a genuine question.
Is it not possible to get venues where there is no charge, or a lot cheaper charge?
I'm aware that there are a few in this area and in B/Head/Liverpool where you can use a place and the cost is covered by their increased bar sales , or a nominal fee of
Rugby & social clubs tend to do very cheap venue hire as well.
As I say, I've never organised one, and it may be to get the current locations, you are having to pay more, is it worth thinking about moving them slightly off the beaten trail?
Sorry if I'm completely off track with this.
Jas
XXX
jas it is a fair point darling... i know that the cost of getting a venue in newcastle city centre is a shed load more than the ones 5-10 minutes outside, which is why i am going for those...i am lucky where i know a few landlords and pitch the ideas to them, and badger them into submission....
the original ethos of the munches is that they are suppose to be free of charge, but i am fully aware venue wise that it may be easier to get cheaper venues up north than it may be to down south.......from my personal standpoint i don't like to charge and wouldn't but it can see it creeping in more and more......it is sad to see, but it may be one of them slow marches that is hard to stop.......
Quote by Shikukai
...Perhaps make a point in the next Munch sticky the cost will be between £2 to £3. Charge £2 on the door and if a loss has been made then ask for the additional (Going on your pervious numbers) I cant see many people having a problem with that as long as it was stated on the original post?...
I do apologise if this doesn't make sense or isn't possible to implement, as I simply dont know the rules to arranging a Munch, that and the fact that we are new to the forum also.
Well, I considering how drunk most people were by the end of the munch, and how messy it was sorting out change for a whole number of pounds when they were coming in sober...
I think just stucking a bucket out there and taking it away again when it's full enough might work better than trying to give out up to 112 lots of 13p change from a quid all at once, but what I'd ideally like to happen is simply for more people to turn up. It would have been a much better night if we had over 100, I'm feeling bad that some people came a very long way to what should have been a very big event and ended up at a medium to small one.
The rules to organising a munch are here:
http://www.swingingheaven.co.uk/terminology/munch.html
I strongly recommend giving it a go, it's a very rewarding job!
Quote by Shikukai
Thanks for pointing out the faults in my previous post as well
Faults? Not at all, thanks for jumping in and discussing, sorry if my reply came over as a telling off!
Quote by blonde
Babe,
I hear what you are saying...... and agree completely....... that no-one should have been out of pocket !............ I dont understand why u didnt just ask everyone for a quid as they left.......... I am sure no-one would have objected !!l
I did think about that, but the way I look at it is that I was promising people a bigger, better, more swinger-packed event that I was actually able to deliver, so it would be wrong of me to ask for more money. I feel a munch organiser shouldn't be charging the people who did come for the problem with people who didn't. This isn't a money problem for me, it's a venue size and planning issue.
As for the specific problems with this event, I really don't want to go over them in this thread, but suffice to say we didn't see a particular rise in cancellations around that time, and the cancellation/not turning up problem seems to be affecting many events on SH.
Quote by Mister_Discreet
Babe,
I hear what you are saying...... and agree completely....... that no-one should have been out of pocket !............ I dont understand why u didnt just ask everyone for a quid as they left.......... I am sure no-one would have objected !!l
I did think about that, but the way I look at it is that I was promising people a bigger, better, more swinger-packed event that I was actually able to deliver, so it would be wrong of me to ask for more money. I feel a munch organiser shouldn't be charging the people who did come for the problem with people who didn't. This isn't a money problem for me, it's a venue size and planning issue.
As for the specific problems with this event, I really don't want to go over them in this thread, but suffice to say we didn't see a particular rise in cancellations around that time, and the cancellation/not turning up problem seems to be affecting many events on SH.
Babe,
I really do think you are beating yourself up for nothing !!! It was a really good night ! and £3 £4 £5 each would have made no difference to any of us I am sure........... Steve was paying anyway............ lol
I think you have to expect a number of people to not turn up....... its what some people do unfortuneately........ maybe we should start to keep a record of how many people confirm then dont attend....... so that when u organise something u know the rough percentage of non attendees....... then u can take that into account when covering the costs !!
It was a great night and U really should have asked for a quid more from everyone !!!!
If you had money left over...... it could have been held over until the next do !
Quote by Jas-Tim
As I've never organised a munch and am only aware of venues in my,or my parents area, this is a genuine question.
Is it not possible to get venues where there is no charge, or a lot cheaper charge?
Good point. We spent quite a while looking at venues, and the place we ended up with wasn't the cheapest but we decided that the cost was well worth it for the facilities provided. We had quite a long list of criteria that we wanted our venue to have, and we would have had to compromise if we wanted a cheaper option. Making a loss is only a symptom of us not getting people turning up, it's not the problem itself. We could have run a free event, but in a worse venue, but I think the expense was well worth it.
For the record, here's a list of what we were looking for:
A big room that we had exclusive use of
A bar in the room
A reasonably 'posh' venue
Allowing us to use our own DJ
Allowing us to bring our own buffet
Plenty of free car parking
Easy to get to from the M25
Good public transport
Close to a reasonably large hotel
Good bar food
Not too expensive to hire room
Good selection of reasonably priced (for this part of the world!) non-own-brand drinks
We ended up compromising on the buffet (theirs or nothing, a head payable in advance) because the bar food was so good, and on public transport (there is none!) because the venue scored so highly on all the other points.
Mr D when we organised the last Scottish munch in Glasgow it was difficult finding a venue that was reasonable ...
After trawling all through the city centre we eventually found one for £50.. which we didn't mind footing the bill for as it wasn't too unreasonable plus there was a few extra things laid on.. With Ken(hubby) being a dj we had our own equipment so that problem was solved..
We didn't expect anyone to put their hands in their pockets at all as there was never a vast amount of expense involved, Unknown to us Vickyuk and Little took in a collection to cover the cost which we felt a tad about, but kindly to make profit but merely to cover costs
No one from the site expects anyone to be out of pocket when arranging a munch especially having to hire of a venue..In fact I would say most people are only too happy to contribute.. I think you should have let Marcuso do a collection for you and I'm sure most if not all would have contributed , there certainly would be have no expectations of you footing the bill..
Lucy xxx
After trawling all through the city centre we eventually found one for £50.. which we didn't mind footing the bill for as it wasn't too unreasonable plus there was a few extra things laid on.. With Ken(hubby) being a dj we had our own equipment so that problem was solved..
We didn't expect anyone to put their hands in their pockets at all as there was never a vast amount of expense involved, Unknown to us Vickyuk and Little took in a collection to cover the cost which we felt a tad
about, but kindly to make profit but merely to cover costsNo one from the site expects anyone to be out of pocket when arranging a munch especially having to hire of a venue..In fact I would say most people are only too happy to contribute.. I think you should have let Marcuso do a collection for you and I'm sure most if not all would have contributed , there certainly would be have no expectations of you footing the bill..
Lucy xxx
Quote by blonde
...I really do think you are beating yourself up for nothing !!! It was a really good night ! and £3 £4 £5 each would have made no difference to any of us I am sure........... Steve was paying anyway............ lol
Actually, I was trying to beat up people who confirmed but didn't turn up!
I'm glad you had a good night, and I think we all did, but I don't think the event went as well as the first one, simply because the numbers were much lower.
Last time we asked for a £3 donation on the door, held a raffle, and someone also passed a pint glass round for Alex the DJ. We ended up making a donation of over £200 to charity. Some people thought this was all too much fundraising, and the munch rules were amended to reflect this shortly after.
Quote by blonde
I think you have to expect a number of people to not turn up....... its what some people do unfortuneately........ maybe we should start to keep a record of how many people confirm then dont attend....... so that when u organise something u know the rough percentage of non attendees....... then u can take that into account when covering the costs !!
I realise we have to expect a certain level of no-shows, but we've seen this level go up from 20% to 50% recently. I simply think it's gone too far, which is why I'm kicking up a fuss!
Quote by blonde
It was a great night and U really should have asked for a quid more from everyone !!!!
If you had money left over...... it could have been held over until the next do !
Currently the rules forbid asking for money more than once, and holding funds over til the next do opens up a while new can of worms (as well as forcing the organiser of a munch to keep on running then forever!). But I think the important thing here is to fix the core problem of people not turning up rather than fixing the symptoms.
We found the ideal solution to this with our notts found a few places where you put a deposit on the room and get it back on the he room hire was free if enough was taken at the bar,and there was certainly no problems there 
Also things like badges,well get some sticky labels and a couple of pens and get peeps to write their own names a treat
Youll never be able to stop people from not turning happen that put going to a munch the last thing on your mind.
I do think that paying for a munch isnt a problem for peeps attending as its cheaper than most things,but I think if you can work on a deposit idea then everyones a winner :D
Also things like badges,well get some sticky labels and a couple of pens and get peeps to write their own names a treat
Youll never be able to stop people from not turning happen that put going to a munch the last thing on your mind.
I do think that paying for a munch isnt a problem for peeps attending as its cheaper than most things,but I think if you can work on a deposit idea then everyones a winner :D
Why is there a need to hire a place....munches have been held in pubs before without the need to pay or cordon off areas for munch attendees,why the need to give these greedy landlords more money when they are getting more cash from the large amout of people from what could be a quite night!......i say this because when i went to the first essex munch i thought it was cheeky they were charging £150 for the use of part of the pub that would have been quite anyway.....and they must have made a small fortune from us that night!
I am one of the people that no-showed, I have no real reason nor excuse for not doing and it won't happen again.
I apologise to you MD, I am still very happy to make a contribution and will do so next time I see you.
As has been said, deposits are probably ideal, but they are time consuming to get in, but it does show commitment.
A humbled
Chris
I apologise to you MD, I am still very happy to make a contribution and will do so next time I see you.
As has been said, deposits are probably ideal, but they are time consuming to get in, but it does show commitment.
A humbled
Chris
I have read through this thread and can totally sympathise with munch organisers being out of pocket.
Whilst I appreciate that munches are supposed to be 'free' this is not always possible with the volume of people turning up. If 50-100 people showed up at a local pub you would probably find that most wouldn't fit in (i mean physically) unless it was one of the big pubs out in the sticks or in the middle of town centres. You may also find that due to volume many people would wander off in groups to other pubs/clubs.
I beleive munches are about like minded people getting together, so the only solution most of the time is hiring a room big enough. Unfortunately in the day and age that means it is going to COST.
As long as any profit is not pocketed by the organisers they should be no reason why small deposits should not be collected from everyone in advance.
If by some stroke of luck there is a small profit at the end of the night, I can't think of anyone that would be upset if it was donated to a charity chosen by the organisers.
If this was stated at the beginning of the munch thread, then no-one would have the right to complain as they are aware of it in advance. This deposit would then cover the organisers in the event of no-shows.
As was suggested before, a simple pay pal account or deposit account ( i set up one on-line with my bank for similar reasons and never had an hassle about it) would suffice.
Now I have typed my fingers to the bone and waffled long enough I will shut up :lol: :lol:
Whilst I appreciate that munches are supposed to be 'free' this is not always possible with the volume of people turning up. If 50-100 people showed up at a local pub you would probably find that most wouldn't fit in (i mean physically) unless it was one of the big pubs out in the sticks or in the middle of town centres. You may also find that due to volume many people would wander off in groups to other pubs/clubs.
I beleive munches are about like minded people getting together, so the only solution most of the time is hiring a room big enough. Unfortunately in the day and age that means it is going to COST.
As long as any profit is not pocketed by the organisers they should be no reason why small deposits should not be collected from everyone in advance.
If by some stroke of luck there is a small profit at the end of the night, I can't think of anyone that would be upset if it was donated to a charity chosen by the organisers.
If this was stated at the beginning of the munch thread, then no-one would have the right to complain as they are aware of it in advance. This deposit would then cover the organisers in the event of no-shows.
As was suggested before, a simple pay pal account or deposit account ( i set up one on-line with my bank for similar reasons and never had an hassle about it) would suffice.
Now I have typed my fingers to the bone and waffled long enough I will shut up
:lol: :lol: Point 1 - geography - this is always likely to be a problem in the South. Things just bloody cost more. It is unlikely there will be a national solution to this problem as what is available North of Watford is unlikely to be found South of it.
Point 2 - What you get for free/low cost may not always be as suitable as a fee charging alternative - let's face it, the type of venue does contribute to the overall feel of the night.
Point 3 - collecting deposits in advance would be really tricky if you think about it - would you want to give out your address to all and sundry?
Suggestion - Personally I would have no quibbles with a premunch poll to nominate a charity and make it a fund raising event (if a free/low-cost venue could not be found).
Charge a fiver and all money over the cost of the event goes to the charity. A copy of the receipt of the charitable donation could be forwarded to niminated persons (if people are worried about it becoming a profit making event). Having said that - If someone wants to go to all that effort to pocket £80-£100, then they will never make a living at it!
Point 2 - What you get for free/low cost may not always be as suitable as a fee charging alternative - let's face it, the type of venue does contribute to the overall feel of the night.
Point 3 - collecting deposits in advance would be really tricky if you think about it - would you want to give out your address to all and sundry?
Suggestion - Personally I would have no quibbles with a premunch poll to nominate a charity and make it a fund raising event (if a free/low-cost venue could not be found).
Charge a fiver and all money over the cost of the event goes to the charity. A copy of the receipt of the charitable donation could be forwarded to niminated persons (if people are worried about it becoming a profit making event). Having said that - If someone wants to go to all that effort to pocket £80-£100, then they will never make a living at it!
Ok the way I see it is that we have a set series of costs, these are unlikely to rise so it is easy to divide the costs by the attendies to get a per head figure. Now to cover those who don't show we have to guess the cover charge resulting in a risk to the organisers of either being over budget and getting slapped wrist for making a profit (even if given away) or being out of pocket...
The only viable solution I can see (as this is normally only a few pounds per head) is the non refundable deposit. Now this is hard to administer, and if you divide it by the 150 head count you may still run short
So as a comprimise how about this:
Take total cost and divide by 100. Everyone who says they want to go and meets the requirements goes on the reserve list. Then the 1st 100 places on the confirmed list will cost you the cover charge of say £2. What you get for being one of the first 100 is a guarenteed place and to know you helping the event go ahead for that nice warm glow.
Anyone who does not want to pay the cover charge can remain on the reserve list which can remain open until the week before the munch when a nice simple random choice of who gets the remaining 50 spaces is run.
:arrow: So you get lists open for longer as in the end last spaces are raffled / random choice
:arrow: Guarenteed no over/undershoot of monies as paid in advance
:arrow: Some members can still go totally free
:arrow: Those that cover the costs get the warm feeling of helping fellow man, oh and security of one of the first 100 spaces.
No great solution to all ill's but maybe another idea for the mix? End of day different approaches will work for different events.
EDIT: Finger tied (like tongue tied with a keyboard) corrected... Oh and to follow Pololady I know deposits would be a pain, some form of paypal or anon mailbox maybe?
The only viable solution I can see (as this is normally only a few pounds per head) is the non refundable deposit. Now this is hard to administer, and if you divide it by the 150 head count you may still run short
So as a comprimise how about this:Take total cost and divide by 100. Everyone who says they want to go and meets the requirements goes on the reserve list. Then the 1st 100 places on the confirmed list will cost you the cover charge of say £2. What you get for being one of the first 100 is a guarenteed place and to know you helping the event go ahead for that nice warm glow.
Anyone who does not want to pay the cover charge can remain on the reserve list which can remain open until the week before the munch when a nice simple random choice of who gets the remaining 50 spaces is run.
:arrow: So you get lists open for longer as in the end last spaces are raffled / random choice
:arrow: Guarenteed no over/undershoot of monies as paid in advance
:arrow: Some members can still go totally free
:arrow: Those that cover the costs get the warm feeling of helping fellow man, oh and security of one of the first 100 spaces.
No great solution to all ill's but maybe another idea for the mix? End of day different approaches will work for different events.
EDIT: Finger tied (like tongue tied with a keyboard) corrected... Oh and to follow Pololady I know deposits would be a pain, some form of paypal or anon mailbox maybe?
Sex God
We were one of the couples who couldn't go but we did let Mr_D know, rather than just not turning up. We don't mind making a contribution to cover some of your costs, Mr_D.
TnH that sounds very reasonable.
TnH that sounds very reasonable.
Sex God
Tallnhairy, the only problem with saying that the first 100 can definately have a place is that you end up with people putting their name down just for the sake of knowing they are on the list before it closes. We had a few who did that for the last 2 Wigan Munches and then cancelled just a few days before, meaning it was much too late to offer the place to anyone else.
The main problem with Munches are the people who confirm they are attending and then never show. I know that there are loads of reasons why they end up not coming, and a lot of them are genuine, but we found that the same people who did this at the first munch, who later apologised, then went and did it again at the second munch! Maybe I should have learned the first time!
As for costs, we had a much bigger response than we originally expected so I spent ages trying to find another venue at short notice. The one I had booked was free but I eventually found an alternative which would hold up to 150 people and only cost £45 but it would not have been my first choice due to location. We then spent around £15 making bades (laminator sleeves, saftey pins, card etc). These cost more than originally planned as people had said they were coming and then cancelled at short notice, meaning I had a lot of wasted badges. We also spent £50 buying food for the buffet and this did not include paper plates, serviettes etc. So total cost was around £110 but I did get £20 back from the venue as there had been no damage and they had done very well on bar takings.
By the time of the munch 150 (ish) members had asked to come, and around 120 confirmed. On the night, 80 turned up.
A collection took place and £67 (cant remember the pence) was collected. I also owed someone £10 for a Birthday Cake bought for one of the people attending, which meant I was left with around £5 7had not covered all my costs. (Please note, I did not keep exact figures, i had no reason to, I did not organise the collection and did not ask for this to be done).
Am not bothered about the costs,NOI did the munch because I wanted to organise it, and it would have cost me more than this if I had gone on a good night out!
What did annoy me and will probably stop me from ever organising another (still very angry about this) is that people confirm they are definately attending and then on the night, they dont show. They dont even bother to contact you after the munch to explain why they did not attend. Even if they pm'd and said sorry but I couldnt be bothered to attend, then at least you knew why!
The other thing which annoyed me on the night and still irks me, was that people used the munch to organise after munch party which actually ended up being a 'leave the munch early party' and go to a Club. I know I will probably be slatted for mentioning this, but how would they like it if they had spent months organising something for someone else to come along a couple of days before and completely hikack it by taking away a large number of your guests!
We had intended to organise a 70's night later this year and had found a suitable venue which holds up to 200 people. However, the way I feel at the moment, I very much doubt this will go ahead.
So how do we stop people like Mister_Discreet being put in this position again? The answer, well I dont know, I really wish I did. The one thing I do know is that my Munch Organising days are over!
The main problem with Munches are the people who confirm they are attending and then never show. I know that there are loads of reasons why they end up not coming, and a lot of them are genuine, but we found that the same people who did this at the first munch, who later apologised, then went and did it again at the second munch! Maybe I should have learned the first time!
As for costs, we had a much bigger response than we originally expected so I spent ages trying to find another venue at short notice. The one I had booked was free but I eventually found an alternative which would hold up to 150 people and only cost £45 but it would not have been my first choice due to location. We then spent around £15 making bades (laminator sleeves, saftey pins, card etc). These cost more than originally planned as people had said they were coming and then cancelled at short notice, meaning I had a lot of wasted badges. We also spent £50 buying food for the buffet and this did not include paper plates, serviettes etc. So total cost was around £110 but I did get £20 back from the venue as there had been no damage and they had done very well on bar takings.
By the time of the munch 150 (ish) members had asked to come, and around 120 confirmed. On the night, 80 turned up.
A collection took place and £67 (cant remember the pence) was collected. I also owed someone £10 for a Birthday Cake bought for one of the people attending, which meant I was left with around £5 7had not covered all my costs. (Please note, I did not keep exact figures, i had no reason to, I did not organise the collection and did not ask for this to be done).
Am not bothered about the costs,NOI did the munch because I wanted to organise it, and it would have cost me more than this if I had gone on a good night out!
What did annoy me and will probably stop me from ever organising another (still very angry about this) is that people confirm they are definately attending and then on the night, they dont show. They dont even bother to contact you after the munch to explain why they did not attend. Even if they pm'd and said sorry but I couldnt be bothered to attend, then at least you knew why!
The other thing which annoyed me on the night and still irks me, was that people used the munch to organise after munch party which actually ended up being a 'leave the munch early party' and go to a Club. I know I will probably be slatted for mentioning this, but how would they like it if they had spent months organising something for someone else to come along a couple of days before and completely hikack it by taking away a large number of your guests!
We had intended to organise a 70's night later this year and had found a suitable venue which holds up to 200 people. However, the way I feel at the moment, I very much doubt this will go ahead.
So how do we stop people like Mister_Discreet being put in this position again? The answer, well I dont know, I really wish I did. The one thing I do know is that my Munch Organising days are over!
Sorry to hear about your bad xp nwc There is a whole other thread there but I think the new guidelines outlaw such activity now.
Countering on the point you raised about my post, while people may rush to get on 'the list' they would be paying to do so. Yes they may drop at the last minute, in truth that may happen anyway. At least the bills would all be covered thus acheiving my goal with the idea of not being out of pocket.
I also think the act of having to signup and pay up front would block out the signup for everything, turn up for nothing people. Not just the parting with cash, also the ability to leave the list open for longer for the final raffle places. This lets you weed out those who have since dropped off the site before the raffle, without having to overtly remove people from a list.
In fact the final 50 (in my example) need never be published, and you could require them to PM you back within 5 days of the offer or lose their space... Lots more possibilities to keep things fair, but increase attendance %. A 50% drop out is way too high...
There is a whole other thread there but I think the new guidelines outlaw such activity now.Countering on the point you raised about my post, while people may rush to get on 'the list' they would be paying to do so. Yes they may drop at the last minute, in truth that may happen anyway. At least the bills would all be covered thus acheiving my goal with the idea of not being out of pocket.
I also think the act of having to signup and pay up front would block out the signup for everything, turn up for nothing people. Not just the parting with cash, also the ability to leave the list open for longer for the final raffle places. This lets you weed out those who have since dropped off the site before the raffle, without having to overtly remove people from a list.
In fact the final 50 (in my example) need never be published, and you could require them to PM you back within 5 days of the offer or lose their space... Lots more possibilities to keep things fair, but increase attendance %. A 50% drop out is way too high...
