Quote by domino_2
Maybe nobody really gives a shit !
Well obviously people to give a shit, otherwise this thread wouldn't be on its 5th page.
:thumbup:
Agree totaly with the above comment.
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Fair membership costs? - Paying members & Free non-payin
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Sex God
we have one free account (liza`s ) and a paid couple`s account
so we can comment on both
so we can comment on both
Sex God
Quote by Aurora_female
Free members are here and yes some are aware that they exist, others are not, the site will stand by its agreement but no one can possibly think it is right that we pay for something we did not ask for also. This was never about being a free/paying member, but when it comes down to an "all singing, all dancing" then we should all share that cost.
can't quite work out if that is an argument for or against their being free members- i never asked for or particually wanted most of the changes as i pretty much just use the forums, which if anything have deteriorated since going commercial- the advert section still has the same ratio of dreamers, chancers, rude/arsey people with a few gems thrown in and the search function is a shite and useless as it was when i joined
So that leaves chat, which i don't use- wank pictures, which i don't use- wank movies- which i don't use.......in fact, can i just have the old site back and not pay anything for that instead? :mrgreen:
Quote by flower411
Free members are here and yes some are aware that they exist, others are not, the site will stand by its agreement but no one can possibly think it is right that we pay for something we did not ask for also. This was never about being a free/paying member, but when it comes down to an "all singing, all dancing" then we should all share that cost.
can't quite work out if that is an argument for or against their being free members- i never asked for or particually wanted most of the changes as i pretty much just use the forums, which if anything have deteriorated since going commercial- the advert section still has the same ratio of dreamers, chancers, rude/arsey people with a few gems thrown in and the search function is a shite and useless as it was when i joined
So that leaves chat, which i don't use- wank pictures, which i don't use- wank movies- which i don't use.......in fact, can i just have the old site back and not pay anything for that instead? :mrgreen:
I`ll second that !!
I`m still a bit confused about the original post ....I`ve read it and reread it and I`m still sure that it was a complaint about there being free members.
I`m sure there is plenty of evidence that many free members argued against lots of the changes and now we find find that paying members didn't want them either !! So who exactly did want them ?
It's what humans call progress. The need to change and improve something even if there's nothing up with the original! "Try our new and improved SH", "our best ever formula"...... a few months later "Even better value that before, new look SH" yadda yadda yadda
People should know by now that we always try to make things as complicated as we can for ourselves by changing things that ain't broke and breaking them in the process, all on the name of progress!!
Sex God
Quote by flower411
Free members are here and yes some are aware that they exist, others are not, the site will stand by its agreement but no one can possibly think it is right that we pay for something we did not ask for also. This was never about being a free/paying member, but when it comes down to an "all singing, all dancing" then we should all share that cost.
can't quite work out if that is an argument for or against their being free members- i never asked for or particually wanted most of the changes as i pretty much just use the forums, which if anything have deteriorated since going commercial- the advert section still has the same ratio of dreamers, chancers, rude/arsey people with a few gems thrown in and the search function is a shite and useless as it was when i joined
So that leaves chat, which i don't use- wank pictures, which i don't use- wank movies- which i don't use.......in fact, can i just have the old site back and not pay anything for that instead? :mrgreen:
I`ll second that !!
I`m still a bit confused about the original post ....I`ve read it and reread it and I`m still sure that it was a complaint about there being free members.
I`m sure there is plenty of evidence that many free members argued against lots of the changes and now we find find that paying members didn`t want them either !! So who exactly did want them ?
Agreed Flower - if not, why so many references to the 'free' members?
I don't use most of the features. Many of the changes have made little difference to me.
At the end of the day, nobody is made to pay - if you object so much or can't afford it, don't pay. Simples. And that's not a 'f*ck you' to paying members; it's just a pretty straightforward choice really.
Quote by meat2pleaseu
Free members are here and yes some are aware that they exist, others are not, the site will stand by its agreement but no one can possibly think it is right that we pay for something we did not ask for also. This was never about being a free/paying member, but when it comes down to an "all singing, all dancing" then we should all share that cost.
can't quite work out if that is an argument for or against their being free members- i never asked for or particually wanted most of the changes as i pretty much just use the forums, which if anything have deteriorated since going commercial- the advert section still has the same ratio of dreamers, chancers, rude/arsey people with a few gems thrown in and the search function is a shite and useless as it was when i joined
So that leaves chat, which i don't use- wank pictures, which i don't use- wank movies- which i don't use.......in fact, can i just have the old site back and not pay anything for that instead? :mrgreen:
That was in reference to posts that their whole debate was based on that they did not ask for the improvements, I don't think most of us did and I doubt most of us use every area either. If you read my next line and the rest of the post, you will see it was and is about sharing the new costs for the recent improvements only, not your membership, be that as some suggested a minimal fee for free members/a one off payment/the site raising revenue another way OR has now been done the trial fee scrapped and what seems a "normal" annual price rise to paying members.
As paying members we expect to pay and yes there are free members, my whole point is that if we were being loaded with an unfair price rise to cover this, then we should all share that cost, whether we asked for it or not.
Quote by flower411
Free members are here and yes some are aware that they exist, others are not, the site will stand by its agreement but no one can possibly think it is right that we pay for something we did not ask for also. This was never about being a free/paying member, but when it comes down to an "all singing, all dancing" then we should all share that cost.
can't quite work out if that is an argument for or against their being free members- i never asked for or particually wanted most of the changes as i pretty much just use the forums, which if anything have deteriorated since going commercial- the advert section still has the same ratio of dreamers, chancers, rude/arsey people with a few gems thrown in and the search function is a shite and useless as it was when i joined
So that leaves chat, which i don't use- wank pictures, which i don't use- wank movies- which i don't use.......in fact, can i just have the old site back and not pay anything for that instead? :mrgreen:
I`ll second that !!
I`m still a bit confused about the original post ....I`ve read it and reread it and I`m still sure that it was a complaint about there being free members.
Yes with respect to the new costs but if you read the whole post you will see it was never about scrapping free, I was aware of free members, the complaint was about cost and just some of us paying for that portion of the improvements that we all had put on us, wanted or not...
I`m sure there is plenty of evidence that many free members argued against lots of the changes and now we find find that paying members didn`t want them either !! So who exactly did want them ?
All I wanted was a full block, that means from mail/chat/profile :lol: But, I will also say that I like the new chat now so I guess sometimes we need dragging out of our caves from time to time. Quote by Freckledbird
At the end of the day, nobody is made to pay - if you object so much or can't afford it, don't pay. Simples. And that's not a 'f*ck you' to paying members; it's just a pretty straightforward choice really.
I agree, no one is forced to pay but if everyone just shut up and put up or left, the fee would still be £70 and not now £50 most likely.
I'm sure SH would tell you that as a business they would much rather hear what members do think, rather than not discuss and just go elsewhere. On this occasion, for me, they listened, be it about cost or something else, I am not one that will just walk away without seeing what can be done.
Sex God
Quote by Aurora_female
Yes with respect to the new costs but if you read the whole post you will see it was never about scrapping free, I was aware of free members, the complaint was about cost and just some of us paying for that portion of the improvements that we all had put on us, wanted or not...
If you want previously free members to pay for anything, then yes it clearly is about scrapping free.
Sex God
Quote by Freckledbird
Free members are here and yes some are aware that they exist, others are not, the site will stand by its agreement but no one can possibly think it is right that we pay for something we did not ask for also. This was never about being a free/paying member, but when it comes down to an "all singing, all dancing" then we should all share that cost.
can't quite work out if that is an argument for or against their being free members- i never asked for or particually wanted most of the changes as i pretty much just use the forums, which if anything have deteriorated since going commercial- the advert section still has the same ratio of dreamers, chancers, rude/arsey people with a few gems thrown in and the search function is a shite and useless as it was when i joined
So that leaves chat, which i don't use- wank pictures, which i don't use- wank movies- which i don't use.......in fact, can i just have the old site back and not pay anything for that instead? :mrgreen:
I`ll second that !!
I`m still a bit confused about the original post ....I`ve read it and reread it and I`m still sure that it was a complaint about there being free members.
I`m sure there is plenty of evidence that many free members argued against lots of the changes and now we find find that paying members didn`t want them either !! So who exactly did want them ?
Agreed Flower - if not, why so many references to the 'free' members?
I don't use most of the features. Many of the changes have made little difference to me.
At the end of the day, nobody is made to pay - if you object so much or can't afford it, don't pay. Simples. And that's not a 'f*ck you' to paying members; it's just a pretty straightforward choice really.
Its a funny old place, I have heard people complain about the forums not getting as many threads as they used to, and people not visiting the forums very much, then when some one starts a perfectly acceptable discussion which has attracted much comment, they are told, "shut up or pay up"
Sex God
Quote by Aurora_female
Hence I give up
Dont give up on forums. It's a contentious subject and people are quite protective, rightly so I guess, when suggestions are made about the possibilities of changing their 'grandfather rights' status on the site. Don't stop posting though. It might feel like it at times no one is attacking you personally and it's always a good subject area to get people motivated to post
Quote by Lost
Hence I give up
Dont give up on forums. It's a contentious subject and people are quite protective, rightly so I guess, when suggestions are made about the possibilities of changing their 'grandfather rights' status on the site. Don't stop posting though. It might feel like it at times no one is attacking you personally and it's always a good subject area to get people motivated to post
Very true but I truly don't take it personally, it's just that things don't seem to change much around here, I used to be quite a big forumite once upon a time, I watched how some either ignored new posters, were pedantic or down right rude at times and I watched many leave the forums. Me, I stayed as I'm not to be shooo'd off :lol:
This time though, I give up for now until something get up my nose again, but my "coffee mornings" in here are well and truly over from old.
I'm not biased in any way around the original posting :high-smile:. But for certain there's nothing wrong expecting logical debate about the reality around us, or is there??
Personally membership costs are ok for my pocket as they are. Also the maintained and ongoing free membership with almost full website access for a portion of non paying members is something I became aware of in times past.
However I’ve noticed throughout the last 6 pages there’s statements that paying members knew exactly what they're paying for. Suggestions they're well aware of the aforementioned free members existing on the site before they joined.
After nosing and reading around the site (whilst logged off as if just discovering the site and whilst logged on as a paid member) I can’t seem to find anything advising paying members that non paying members, with almost full website access, will exist or do exist in parallel.
Any offers on where or how this is spelt out before or after payment??
To make it clear...where on the site lol. As opposed to someone told me or owt else.
Personally membership costs are ok for my pocket as they are. Also the maintained and ongoing free membership with almost full website access for a portion of non paying members is something I became aware of in times past.
However I’ve noticed throughout the last 6 pages there’s statements that paying members knew exactly what they're paying for. Suggestions they're well aware of the aforementioned free members existing on the site before they joined.
After nosing and reading around the site (whilst logged off as if just discovering the site and whilst logged on as a paid member) I can’t seem to find anything advising paying members that non paying members, with almost full website access, will exist or do exist in parallel.
Any offers on where or how this is spelt out before or after payment??
To make it clear...where on the site lol. As opposed to someone told me or owt else.
Orgasminator
Quote by Somm
I'm not biased in any way around the original posting :high-smile:. But for certain there's nothing wrong expecting logical debate about the reality around us, or is there??
Personally membership costs are ok for my pocket as they are. Also the maintained and ongoing free membership with almost full website access for a portion of non paying members is something I became aware of in times past.
However I’ve noticed throughout the last 6 pages there’s statements that paying members knew exactly what they're paying for. Suggestions they're well aware of the aforementioned free members existing on the site before they joined.
After nosing and reading around the site (whilst logged off as if just discovering the site and whilst logged on as a paid member) I can’t seem to find anything advising paying members that non paying members, with almost full website access, will exist or do exist in parallel.
Any offers on where or how this is spelt out before or after payment??
I dont know but i think the assumption in this thread came from the following post
Quote by Aurora_female
I only have one thing to say. The free members were here when every paying member joined. Take a look at what you decide to pay for and then if you decide thats unfair dont join up. Why join up then moan about what was already in place well before you joined :dunno: I guess some will plead ignorance but thats just a good lesson to look harder at what you buy into.
I dont believe Admin are bound to leave us as free members its only a gentlemans agreement as it were. Though I'll say as I did in the other thread I wont be paying when there are other free sites out there. If all the sites were pay sites I would look at which was best and then decide but that isn't the case so would stick with a free one.
Yes I was aware of the free membership when I joined some years ago just after the change over and have never complained over it before, so will not plead ignorance. But when the site hikes up prices again and tells us it is for this and that, yet still there are free members, yes I will complain when we are all using the new services together, why should just some of us pay a newer site and others don't.
As said before it is not a witch hunt against the free members and it should not be down to "if you decide that's unfair don't join up" This should be a fairly run site to reflect the new modern site that we now have. Even a lower fee for previous "free" members would be fair, but to make some pay for all of and any improvements is just wrong in my opinion.
So it must be about out there somewhere?!?
Sex God
Quote by Bluefish2009
Its a funny old place, I have heard people complain about the forums not getting as many threads as they used to, and people not visiting the forums very much, then when some one starts a perfectly acceptable discussion which has attracted much comment, they are told, "shut up or pay up"
The lack of traffic on the forum isn't linked to the paying/non-paying aspect of the membership. The forum has peaks and troughs of posting activity.
This isn't a discussion - it's a moan, however you dress it up - 'why should the paying members subsidise the non-paying members?'. The answer is, you're not - some people have always been free members due to joining before the site became a pay site. Others have joined since, knowing they would have to pay for the service. Then they grumble when the costs rise. Do you moan at supermarkets when they increase their prices? No - you go elsewhere, do without or pay up. Same principle here really.
Oh, and then when anyone disagrees or posts anything that someone doesn't like, the old chestnut comes in - 'I give up, it's always the same/left before for the same reason/seen it all before'
Like it or not, the point is, you DO NOT have to pay; if you don't want to pay, leave.
As a Free member from way back when - 2004 i believe - there is no point me adding my voice to this subject, as the thread has covered most points, for and against, and is now starting to shift into the realms of repetition and........ the only thing i would say is...
Ever since 2004 I have never been a regular 'Forumite' as the number of posts i have made in 7 years clearly shows. Generally i find that the inane arguing of the Forum bores the pants off me...
But every now and again there is a thread that provokes real valuable discussion and worthwhile dialogue....this thread is one of them...I have actually read every post in detail and i rarely ever do that....
So congratulations to Aurora for raising the bar of Forum posts way above the norm (and lowering the prices for regulars hopefully)....
RWL
xx
ps...i love all the mathematical arguments over numbers...shame its all pure supposition......and probably wildly inaccurate....
one thing i would love to know...what are the real numbers...?
i.e. how many 'Free' members still use the site?
how many actual 'Fee paying' members are there?
I bet that makes very interesting reading...will we ever find out?
Ever since 2004 I have never been a regular 'Forumite' as the number of posts i have made in 7 years clearly shows. Generally i find that the inane arguing of the Forum bores the pants off me...
But every now and again there is a thread that provokes real valuable discussion and worthwhile dialogue....this thread is one of them...I have actually read every post in detail and i rarely ever do that....
So congratulations to Aurora for raising the bar of Forum posts way above the norm (and lowering the prices for regulars hopefully)....
RWL
xx
ps...i love all the mathematical arguments over numbers...shame its all pure supposition......and probably wildly inaccurate....
one thing i would love to know...what are the real numbers...?
i.e. how many 'Free' members still use the site?
how many actual 'Fee paying' members are there?
I bet that makes very interesting reading...will we ever find out?
Quote by Freckledbird
Its a funny old place, I have heard people complain about the forums not getting as many threads as they used to, and people not visiting the forums very much, then when some one starts a perfectly acceptable discussion which has attracted much comment, they are told, "shut up or pay up"
The lack of traffic on the forum isn't linked to the paying/non-paying aspect of the membership. The forum has peaks and troughs of posting activity.
This isn't a discussion - it's a moan, however you dress it up - 'why should the paying members subsidise the non-paying members?'. The answer is, you're not - some people have always been free members due to joining before the site became a pay site. Others have joined since, knowing they would have to pay for the service. Then they grumble when the costs rise. Do you moan at supermarkets when they increase their prices? No - you go elsewhere, do without or pay up. Same principle here really.
Oh, and then when anyone disagrees or posts anything that someone doesn't like, the old chestnut comes in - 'I give up, it's always the same/left before for the same reason/seen it all before'
Like it or not, the point is, you DO NOT have to pay; if you don't want to pay, leave.
Freckle....are you moaning, ranting or discussing ?? I cant quite make it out lol.
Sex God
Quote by Somm
Like it or not, the point is, you DO NOT have to pay; if you don't want to pay, leave.
Freckle....are you moaning, ranting or discussing ?? I cant quite make it out lol.
Bit of moaning really. But the point is still the same
Quote by Freckledbird
Like it or not, the point is, you DO NOT have to pay; if you don't want to pay, leave.
Freckle....are you moaning, ranting or discussing ?? I cant quite make it out lol.
Bit of moaning really. But the point is still the same
WELL whilst your moaning any chance you advise on my post above.....copied below ??? If you cant np x
Quote by Somm
I'm not biased in any way around the original posting :high-smile:. But for certain there's nothing wrong expecting logical debate about the reality around us, or is there??
Personally membership costs are ok for my pocket as they are. Also the maintained and ongoing free membership with almost full website access for a portion of non paying members is something I became aware of in times past.
However I’ve noticed throughout the last 6 pages there’s statements that paying members knew exactly what they're paying for. Suggestions they're well aware of the aforementioned free members existing on the site before they joined.
After nosing and reading around the site (whilst logged off as if just discovering the site and whilst logged on as a paid member) I can’t seem to find anything advising paying members that non paying members, with almost full website access, will exist or do exist in parallel.
Any offers on where or how this is spelt out before or after payment??
To make it clear...where on the site lol. As opposed to someone told me or owt else.
Sex God
Paying members do know what they are paying for - my other half is a paying member. They will also be aware that you can be a free member, albeit with limited access to the site. I don't know whether they'd be aware that there are members who have free membership due to being around in the early days of the site though. However, I think that's a common thing - I've seen other, previously free, sites which have become paysites and original members retained their free membership status.
Sex God
Quote by Somm
Can you answer my question yes or no ?? Someone green comes to this site to join. Where does it tell them ?? Or is it down to them discovering after payment ?? Or do you really think every or most new members somehow magically know beforehand ??
:mrgreen:
x
Haven't a clue
If someone "GREEN" joins the site or is just looking around.
They can plainly see it is a pay site.
They then decide to "join" or not.
Or would you prefer a 500 page introduction when you first log onto the site, and every time afterwards explaining in detail all the changes that have happened since the sites conception.
They can plainly see it is a pay site.
They then decide to "join" or not.
Or would you prefer a 500 page introduction when you first log onto the site, and every time afterwards explaining in detail all the changes that have happened since the sites conception.
Sex God
Quote by robbo-bi1
If someone "GREEN" joins the site or is just looking around.
They can plainly see it is a pay site.
They then decide to "join" or not.
Or would you prefer a 500 page introduction when you first log onto the site, and every time afterwards explaining in detail all the changes that have happened since the sites conception.
:thumbup:
Its not all that uncommon to find sites that have a similar legacy, so its usually accepted once people find out.
there's some web sites which specialise in detailing such things about web sites by recording their progress and changes.
but does anyone think like that when they see our gorgeous babes and boys having fun?
there's some web sites which specialise in detailing such things about web sites by recording their progress and changes.
but does anyone think like that when they see our gorgeous babes and boys having fun?
Quote by robbo-bi1
If someone "GREEN" joins the site or is just looking around.
They can plainly see it is a pay site.
They then decide to "join" or not.
Or would you prefer a 500 page introduction when you first log onto the site, and every time afterwards explaining in detail all the changes that have happened since the sites conception.
In the pages of the post statements have been made that people joined knowing that free full access members exist. As a result the post was considered moaning or complaining by a few hence i asked my quite simple question.
If if people are not advised or aware before or as they join/make payment then how can it be said they are fully aware of the free full access members. If they we're they could then make a decison on fairness and decide to join or not, correct ??
So can you answer the question as to where on the site this is spelt out ??
If it's a no from you also, then it's another np :color:
Quote by Cubes
I can clarify the 'why' of the free members. If you check back to what was being promised when I signed up for SH you'll find this:
Swinging Heaven is FREE and is staying that way
First things first. We get emails every now and then asking how to pay to use this site, or whether we will be making it a site you have to pay for to use in the future. We want to take this opportunity to say don't bother asking. No payment is required, no payment will ever be required. Keep your Credit Card in your pocket/purse! You will NOT come to this site one day and find that you have to pay to use it. We'd sooner stop all together than start charging anyone to use this site, and let that be the final word on the matter.
The source of that quote is available .
Please feel free to read the above quote.
If you search hard enough you could find the original post.(LINK)
If you seek then you shall find.
Or are you just another that wants everything finding for them.
Like i said earlier "we can have a 500 page header, with a box you have to tick after every paragraph, listing every change that happens.
Dont tick every box and you cant get in."
SIMPLES
Sex God
Quote by Freckledbird
If someone "GREEN" joins the site or is just looking around.
They can plainly see it is a pay site.
They then decide to "join" or not.
Or would you prefer a 500 page introduction when you first log onto the site, and every time afterwards explaining in detail all the changes that have happened since the sites conception.
:thumbup:
I agree, but I still see no reason, why people may not discuss, or moan about it if they feel so inclined, provided they are not rude... Just as others are entitled to moan about the moaning
Quote by robbo-bi1
I can clarify the 'why' of the free members. If you check back to what was being promised when I signed up for SH you'll find this:
Swinging Heaven is FREE and is staying that way
First things first. We get emails every now and then asking how to pay to use this site, or whether we will be making it a site you have to pay for to use in the future. We want to take this opportunity to say don't bother asking. No payment is required, no payment will ever be required. Keep your Credit Card in your pocket/purse! You will NOT come to this site one day and find that you have to pay to use it. We'd sooner stop all together than start charging anyone to use this site, and let that be the final word on the matter.
The source of that quote is available .
Please feel free to read the above quote.
If you search hard enough you could find the original post.(LINK)
If you seek then you shall find.
Or are you just another that wants everything finding for them.
Like i said earlier "we can have a 500 page header, with a box you have to tick after every paragraph, listing every change that happens.
Dont tick every box and you cant get in."
SIMPLES
Already read that 'source' the other day from a past post in this very thread.
As for the re-quoted source thats a web archive of an old page from the old website that belonged to the old owners (mark & helen) of the site before the current new owners. From times past when the site was in no way shape or form a pay site, was totally free hence no paying members existed.
That is the basis of the promise made by the new owners not to make the free full basic access members pay (also explained and quoted in a thread in this post).
If you read my actual question i'm not asking about or questioning that promise.
To explain what i asked is - where during the current sign up & payment are new paying members made aware of the situation of free full basic access members during their sign up and payment to the site. And when i say site that's the current site from which present terms and conditions apply.
If you seek you shall find
my actual post/question a few threads back. If you can answer mi question please do, if you cant....oh well
Have fun x
I
