The "bareback totally unprotected sex room" thread began to explore some ideas around fantasy vs illegality that I felt deserved a dedicated airing.
From that thread I picked out two view points (and this thread is meant to explore all the others):
1. It is fantasy.... anything goes in fantasy and freedom of speech should allow the most outrageous of fantasies.
2. It is fantasy but acceptable fantasies should be regulated by the legal norms. So it is OK to fantasise about getting another man's wife pregnant since that is legal but it is not ok to fantasise about child since that is illegal. So child rooms should be banned (hoorah) but "getting a strangers wife pregnant" rooms are OK.
I disagree with the black and white of fantasy about a legal act is OK whilst fantasy about an illegal act is wrong. Firstly, and for the avoidance of any doubt at all I think that fantasising about any act involving children is horrid and is sufficient grounds for the involvement of the police
Let me share my own personal history....
A long long time ago... I can still remember... I answered an ad on loot (pre-internet days) . I was about 23 she was about 30. The ad was in the "naughty" section but just expressed a desire for "no strings fun" and we exchanged letters (yes - really was pre-internet) which resulted in phone calls and phone sex. During which we explored the fact that we were "sexually charged" strangers. This exploration culminated in a fantasy play. We'd never met... in fact she never knew my name but she asked that I pretend to break into her apartment and her. I was very circumspect and went to the extent of recording an entire conversation from the receptionist at her work answering the phone all the way through to her "agreeing to be " - this resulted in me knowing her name but to repeat at no point has she ever known my name. On the allotted night, I phoned her as agree from just outside her apartment, this was her cue to leave the door ajar and I entered in torch light and proceeded to play out a whole scene. We had agreed safe words and I would've stopped at the merest hint of an issue but that was not required. We both really enjoyed the experience. It was never repeated and we never met but we did talk on the phone for many months and years afterwards. She has since become a well known journalist but to this day she has very little idea of who I am.
So to get to my point. I felt that in the other thread the simplistic "legal fantasies are good.... illegal fantasies are wrong" was too simplistic. is rightly illegal but I played out a fantasy that was very enjoyable for both parties. So I reject the black and white argument that it is wrong to fantasise about illegal acts (although to make the point one last time I do feel it is abhorrent to have any sexually motivated discussion on children).
Thoughts please -which illegal acts is it ok to fantasise about and why?
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Fantasy vs Illegality vs Rights vs Responsibilities
Quote by UrbanSin
The "bareback totally unprotected sex room" thread began to explore some ideas around fantasy vs illegality that I felt deserved a dedicated airing.
From that thread I picked out two view points (and this thread is meant to explore all the others):
1. It is fantasy.... anything goes in fantasy and freedom of speech should allow the most outrageous of fantasies.
2. It is fantasy but acceptable fantasies should be regulated by the legal norms. So it is OK to fantasise about getting another man's wife pregnant since that is legal but it is not ok to fantasise about child since that is illegal. So child rooms should be banned (hoorah) but "getting a strangers wife pregnant" rooms are OK.
I disagree with the black and white of fantasy about a legal act is OK whilst fantasy about an illegal act is wrong. Firstly, and for the avoidance of any doubt at all I think that fantasising about any act involving children is horrid and is sufficient grounds for the involvement of the police
Let me share my own personal history....
A long long time ago... I can still remember... I answered an ad on loot (pre-internet days) . I was about 23 she was about 30. The ad was in the "naughty" section but just expressed a desire for "no strings fun" and we exchanged letters (yes - really was pre-internet) which resulted in phone calls and phone sex. During which we explored the fact that we were "sexually charged" strangers. This exploration culminated in a fantasy play. We'd never met... in fact she never knew my name but she asked that I pretend to break into her apartment and her. I was very circumspect and went to the extent of recording an entire conversation from the receptionist at her work answering the phone all the way through to her "agreeing to be " - this resulted in me knowing her name but to repeat at no point has she ever known my name. On the allotted night, I phoned her as agree from just outside her apartment, this was her cue to leave the door ajar and I entered in torch light and proceeded to play out a whole scene. We had agreed safe words and I would've stopped at the merest hint of an issue but that was not required. We both really enjoyed the experience. It was never repeated and we never met but we did talk on the phone for many months and years afterwards. She has since become a well known journalist but to this day she has very little idea of who I am.
So to get to my point. I felt that in the other thread the simplistic "legal fantasies are good.... illegal fantasies are wrong" was too simplistic. is rightly illegal but I played out a fantasy that was very enjoyable for both parties. So I reject the black and white argument that it is wrong to fantasise about illegal acts (although to make the point one last time I do feel it is abhorrent to have any sexually motivated discussion on children).
Thoughts please -which illegal acts is it ok to fantasise about and why?
I would find it amazing if anyone actually answered that question on here. For reasons I would have thought would have been obvious.
Sex God
Hi UrbanSin and welcome to the forums.Your post raises some very interesting points. I've got to pop out, but I shall ponder and get back to you.
Sex God
Quote by Kaznkev
i believe it is ok to fantasise about anything.
Hi Kaz, am still loving your stuff although in my opinion it's not cut and dried.
And can write the replies to that statement right now.
But it is the only logically consistent view i can have,i like many things that the average swinger would not get turned on by.i am quite open about the fact i find watersports a turn on for example.
Watersports are not illegal so fill your boots (Oh my word!)
The average swinger gets turned on by things that the nills world might find wrong.
But it maybe that the average swinger has limitations to, OK maybe to differing extent of what's acceptable in today's moral climate. That which is arrived at by the consensus of the majorities. If the consensus is that certain things are illegal then that becomes unacceptable and is deserving of thought as to those having fantasies about illegal activities as to what's going on in their minds and questioning themselves why. Not the easiest idea I know, and maybe not the most comfortable.
Even if only fantasy, things such as and are acts which even if only in thought and not deed there is no possible, reasonable way in which the subject of said fantasy can be consenting. Even if that were the case with the subject concerned it would be very Walt Disney and would actually be the fantasists own consent which is, I hope you'll agree, folly.
It is a spectrum,and i do not see how i have the right to say this is where the line is should my opinion carry more weight ?
Why do you not hold that right? If that right is held by the majority and what is acceptable you have every right to say where the line is drawn. Of course you/we all have the right to question the validity of the argument and if fault is found with it to then change the view of what is right or wrong to fit in with the what majority find acceptable and to have a sociocultural code based on that. If found coming down on the side of the minority the one must question why they are doing so, whilst living with, until and if, that changes.
Now i am sure some will argue that fantasising about illegal acts leads to doing them.
This is pretty much the second wave feminist arguement against all pornography,that by objectifying women is caused.
I as a man cannot, and probably will never, be able to answer a woman's emotional and intellectual whilst being a man, and vice versa
Or that you men are so unable to control yourselves once you see a woman you desire. i am sure you see why that is an offensive suggestion to third wavers like myself are pro porn and sex work as legitimate choices .
See last green entry.
So to recap,where are we,people can control themselves,people find different things hot,what matters is the choices they make.
Surely that is the important are responsible for our actions,no excuses,no get porn made me do it is a weak persons excuse,a way of saying it is not my fault. Close to the peado who says the child led me on.
Precisely. Then by surely having the thought and wanting to do something about it must be wrong, And self examination of why those thoughts occurred must be an issue dealt with, possibly with the aid of professional third parties
So we either allow any fantasy and say it is actions that matter,or we are imo left allowing people not to take full responsibility for the choices they make.
Turn that statement on it's head for a moment... We allow the reality and say it is those actions that matter, and we are left allowing people to take responsibilty for their actions.
Sorry to go on a bit,but it is a very interesting question.
Yeah it's a goodun ain't it mate :thumbup:
Sex God
As we have practicing Christians here thought it would be interesting to mention this. Does the bible not say that sin is in the mind as well as in the body or something to that affect?
Sex God
Quote by tweeky
As we have practicing Christians here thought it would be interesting to mention this. Does the bible not say that sin is in the mind as well as in the body or something to that affect?
Christians? bunch of of wanker*s say I. Oh, and not to seem to appear to differentiate between the other religions just in case of causing offense, they're a bunch of tossers too. There ya go, very even handed of me say I.
Sex God
Quote by Lost
As we have practicing Christians here thought it would be interesting to mention this. Does the bible not say that sin is in the mind as well as in the body or something to that affect?
Christians? bunch of of wanker*s say I. Oh, and not to seem to appear to differentiate between the other religions just in case of causing offense, they're a bunch of tossers too. There ya go, very even handed of me say I.
Well I'll disagree there. Think the principal of the Christian way of life is fine, shame its all caused so many wars and death
Dont have any kind of problem with anyone who wants to try and live by the basic Christian principals as taught by the bible. Most of its good common sense, Thou shall not steal, shall not commit murder etc etc. 
Warming the Bed
Quote by Lost
Christians? bunch of of wanker*s say I. Oh, and not to seem to appear to differentiate between the other religions just in case of causing offense, they're a bunch of tossers too. There ya go, very even handed of me say I.
You cause offense by expressing your disdain for those who have faith in such an immoderate and unintelligent way.
Sex God
Quote by Unc
Christians? bunch of of wanker*s say I. Oh, and not to seem to appear to differentiate between the other religions just in case of causing offense, they're a bunch of tossers too. There ya go, very even handed of me say I.
You cause offense by expressing your disdain for those who have faith in such an immoderate and unintelligent way.
Why are they unintelligent and immoderate? though for a number of them that's undeniably the truth.
As for disdain, my deep and long experiences, with being involved with both Baptists and Methodists. Of the Christian faith. And one more minor, though nonetheless, not pleasant experience with some members of the Islamic faith. For me is justifies my thought on their organisations practices. Of course there are many fine people involved in these organisations which is a shame as the organisations don't deserve them.
I'd love to wake up tomorrow and find religion eradicated from the collective minds of this worlds population. Unfortunately, I also realise, that within five minutes some git will bring about another fictitious and undeserving deity to sadly take their place and ruin yet another load of people.
I go with Stephen Fry's opinion of religion which is, to say, not very high.
Quote by Lost
Christians? bunch of of wanker*s say I. Oh, and not to seem to appear to differentiate between the other religions just in case of causing offense, they're a bunch of tossers too. There ya go, very even handed of me say I.
You cause offense by expressing your disdain for those who have faith in such an immoderate and unintelligent way.
Why are they unintelligent and immoderate? though for a number of them that's undeniably the truth.
No he is saying you have expressed your disdain in an immoderate and unintelligent way!
some aspects of mixed fantasy/reality are regulated by law. take for example stalkers. whose major preoccupation is fantasy, with the occasional foray into the real. finally resulting in a restraining order.
but sometimes its also 'unreasonable behaviour' which is largely a fantasy but with the more complicated feature of convincingly real actions.
so its not such a clear cut issur
but sometimes its also 'unreasonable behaviour' which is largely a fantasy but with the more complicated feature of convincingly real actions.
so its not such a clear cut issur
Warming the Bed
Quote by Unc
You cause offense by expressing your disdain for those who have faith in such an immoderate and unintelligent way.
Quote by Lost
Why are they unintelligent and immoderate? though for a number of them that's undeniably the truth.
They aren't, you are.
Quote by Lost
As for disdain, my deep and long experiences, with being involved with both Baptists and Methodists. Of the Christian faith. And one more minor, though nonetheless, not pleasant experience with some members of the Islamic faith. For me is justifies my thought on their organisations practices. Of course there are many fine people involved in these organisations which is a shame as the organisations don't deserve them.
So you believe your limited personal experience and opinion gives you the right to be abusive to all those who have faith? If I was to call you a wanker and a tosser for being so small minded, Admin would have reason to warn or possibly ban me for personal abuse. Apparently being abusive to all members who both read your post and have faith is perfectly acceptable; wrongly in my opinion.
Quote by Lost
I'd love to wake up tomorrow and find religion eradicated from the collective minds of this worlds population. Unfortunately, I also realise, that within five minutes some git will bring about another fictitious and undeserving deity to sadly take their place and ruin yet another load of people.
I go with Stephen Fry's opinion of religion which is, to say, not very high.
You have every right not to have faith. You have every right to give your opinions on religion. You even have the right to be unintelligent. You do not however have the right to be abusive, disrespectful of others beliefs and downright unpleasant.
fantasy's about illegal things can blur the lines between what is actually reality and fantasy.
There are many sexual practises that I would not wish to par-take in ..watersports for example....but as fully legal, and between two or more consulting adults, then I simply turn and say each to their own.
Fantasy about anything illegal, I do think is very dangerous....and for some can lead to fantasy becoming reality !!!!
There are many sexual practises that I would not wish to par-take in ..watersports for example....but as fully legal, and between two or more consulting adults, then I simply turn and say each to their own.
Fantasy about anything illegal, I do think is very dangerous....and for some can lead to fantasy becoming reality !!!!
Sex God
Quote by Mr-Powers
Christians? bunch of of wanker*s say I. Oh, and not to seem to appear to differentiate between the other religions just in case of causing offense, they're a bunch of tossers too. There ya go, very even handed of me say I.
You cause offense by expressing your disdain for those who have faith in such an immoderate and unintelligent way.
Why are they unintelligent and immoderate? though for a number of them that's undeniably the truth.
No he is saying you have expressed your disdain in an immoderate and unintelligent
Sighhh. I do know what Unc's intention was, though there was a comma missing, so I read it as it was written. I was rude and the remark was unintelligent but that's how I feel about religion.
Lost fully respect the fact...you have no time for religion. And indeed Religion has been at the fore front of many disputes and wars over the years.
However saying all the people that have faith in religion...are wankers and tossers is disrespectfull to those people.
I have no real faith myself.....but to have great respect for those that have.
However saying all the people that have faith in religion...are wankers and tossers is disrespectfull to those people.
I have no real faith myself.....but to have great respect for those that have.
Sex God
Quote by Unc
You have every right not to have faith. You have every right to give your opinions on religion. You even have the right to be unintelligent. You do not however have the right to be abusive, disrespectful of others beliefs and downright unpleasant.
I gave my opinion to the religion, not the people who use it, then went on to say a number, admittedly omitting to say in my experience, are immoderate and unintelligent. Which in my experience is true.
I said emotive stuff about an emotive subject of which i hold strong emotion. I also dare say i am neither moderate or intelligent to any great extent though i lack in neither to any great extent either. however. I usually get by in an average fashion. If it's OK for the BBC to allow there presenters to say the same, and worse I believe Fry's phrase was something like "Religion....arse gravy of the worst sort" Then I have no regrets in how i feel about religion
Sex God
Ahh I did post christians as opposed to Christianity, my mistake if anyone is unduly offended. then I apologise I re read my unthoughtout post and i was in error
I'll rephrase.
Christianity along with other religions is wank.
l'll not delete the post before this one as it shows me I should be more careful,yet another lesson for me to learn
I'll rephrase.
Christianity along with other religions is wank.
l'll not delete the post before this one as it shows me I should be more careful,yet another lesson for me to learn
Quote by Lost
Ahh I did post christians as opposed to Christianity, my mistake if anyone is unduly offended. then I apologise I re read my unthoughtout post and i was in error
I'll rephrase.
Christianity along with other religions is wank.
l'll not delete the post before this one as it shows me I should be more careful,yet another lesson for me to learn
We always learn. I had to re-read this a few times to work out why people were getting upset. Now I can see as I read it the way you thought you wrote it. I have had a lesson to read it properly.
Dave_Notts
Sex God
Just thinking theres some limited scope here 
I have partaken in some sexual activities that would be deemed illegal. No one was hurt or forced to do anything but then I couldn't mention them in this thread as that would break the AUP. Hmm its a bit hard to say what I want to say without giving an example. Now I cant debate properly and feel again oppressed by society and therefore for the first time in ages rebellious and anti establishment :twisted:
Come on ... who wants a fight :sparring: :lol2:
I have partaken in some sexual activities that would be deemed illegal. No one was hurt or forced to do anything but then I couldn't mention them in this thread as that would break the AUP. Hmm its a bit hard to say what I want to say without giving an example. Now I cant debate properly and feel again oppressed by society and therefore for the first time in ages rebellious and anti establishment :twisted: Come on ... who wants a fight :sparring: :lol2:
Orgasminator
Quote by UrbanSin
I disagree with the black and white of fantasy about a legal act is OK whilst fantasy about an illegal act is wrong. Firstly, and for the avoidance of any doubt at all I think that fantasising about any act involving children is horrid and is sufficient grounds for the involvement of the police
Let me share my own personal history....
A long long time ago... I can still remember... I answered an ad on loot (pre-internet days) . I was about 23 she was about 30. The ad was in the "naughty" section but just expressed a desire for "no strings fun" and we exchanged letters (yes - really was pre-internet) which resulted in phone calls and phone sex. During which we explored the fact that we were "sexually charged" strangers. This exploration culminated in a fantasy play. We'd never met... in fact she never knew my name but she asked that I pretend to break into her apartment and her. I was very circumspect and went to the extent of recording an entire conversation from the receptionist at her work answering the phone all the way through to her "agreeing to be " - this resulted in me knowing her name but to repeat at no point has she ever known my name. On the allotted night, I phoned her as agree from just outside her apartment, this was her cue to leave the door ajar and I entered in torch light and proceeded to play out a whole scene. We had agreed safe words and I would've stopped at the merest hint of an issue but that was not required. We both really enjoyed the experience. It was never repeated and we never met but we did talk on the phone for many months and years afterwards. She has since become a well known journalist but to this day she has very little idea of who I am.
So to get to my point. I felt that in the other thread the simplistic "legal fantasies are good.... illegal fantasies are wrong" was too simplistic. is rightly illegal but I played out a fantasy that was very enjoyable for both parties. So I reject the black and white argument that it is wrong to fantasise about illegal acts (although to make the point one last time I do feel it is abhorrent to have any sexually motivated discussion on children).
Thoughts please -which illegal acts is it ok to fantasise about and why?
The most obvoius point to me reading this is that yes, while is legal what you acted upon here wasn't actually . It was a carefully worked out and most importantly agreed upon scene between two consenting adults. There is nothing wrong with either fantasising about or doing that.
Whilst it might have been based on the concept of it wasn't actually . It was just overpowering sex and as much as you would like to think that is what you played out, its a world away from the reality. Therefore to me the legal/illegal side of the line is still simplistc and clear. If its illegal to do then you're on very shakey ground.
Its more about how we define the legal things we do to make them sound/feel like something that they're really not. You may have defined it as or play but what you fantasised about was not illegal as it wasnt truely .
It sounded like great fun incidentally.
Sex God
Quote by Lost
I believe Fry's phrase was something like "Religion....arse gravy of the worst sort"
That was Fry's comment on Dan Brown's The Da Vinci Code...not the same thing.
Sex God
You can't censor peoples imagination- or we really will live in the ultimate police state :scared:
Sex God
Quote by MikeNorth
I believe Fry's phrase was something like "Religion....arse gravy of the worst sort"
That was Fry's comment on Dan Brown's The Da Vinci Code...not the same thing.
OKOKOKOK The actual quote kn QI regarding religion by Fry was - "Religion - Shit it!"
Sex God
Quote by meat2pleaseu
You can't censor peoples imagination- or we really will live in the ultimate police state :scared:
We cant have a cake with a cock on it in a swingers forum, anythings possible
