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Thank you kiss
Sam xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
The thing is, in my humble opinion, that as a written form of communication, the forum can leave itself open to all sorts of interpretation.
There are no visual clues such as a look, an expression or any other body language to give pointers as to which way a comment is meant.......and thats assuming that IF there were visual clues that the person whom the comment is directed would plick them up.
This year my 9 year old son was diagnosed as dyspraxic, and some of the mental thought processing and socio-behavioural aspects of that mirror a condition called Aspergers syndrome. He lacks the ability to react appropriately in social situations, he lacks the ability to think through a situation and make his behaviour fit the situation.
He also cant understand visual and audial clues, such as a wink with a funny put down, sarcasm, tone of voice etc.......this is all linked to a part of his brain not forming correctly, and its something he will suffer from for all of his life.
We have learned a lot over the last year about the way our sons thought processes work.....and how they differ HUGELY from a 'normal' set of thought processes. We have also learned about why he behaves as he does. This has altered how we look at him, and more importantly how his teachers view him.
He was viewed as unruly, a trouble maker, aggressive, violent, abrasive, unco-operative, stubborn, pig headed, rude, bad mannered and just a general horrible little boy. He was a nightmare to handle both at home and at school and was disliked by many, if not all of his peers, and the staff in the school.
Since we had him diagnosed and have been given coping strategies, as have the school, the difference in him is amazing, and also the difference in the way the staff treat him because they now understand why he acts the way he does and says the things he does, is also amazing.
They now understand that a lot of what he says is not intentional, or meant as aggressive or rude, its just the way his brain has perceived a situation, and then reacted to that jumbled thought process. And also to understand the fact that he is always 100% convinced he is acting correctly and appropriately in all difficult situations.
Now it may appear as though I have rambled a lot about something totally unrelated, but what Im trying to say is that behind a keyboard and words on a screen....we could be anyone, and we shouldnt be judged and labelled for what we write.
Some people may have socio-behavioural conditons like dyspraxia/apergers/tourettes and this carries through into their typing. If we dont even know a person in real life, we cant hope to know what goes on in their heads when they post on here.
And you cant always spot the people with these conditions.....they can be eloquent, well read, well written, well educated (world famous artis LS Lowry was a sufferer) and via an anonymous writtem medium are for all the world like you and me.
Im not saying this is an excuse for everyone to be nasty, but just as a pause for thought that maybe there are more to people that a quick judgement about what they read on a screen.
For all I know, people might not be able to stand me, cos they think I'm far too twee and sugar coated nice, never having a bad word to say about anyone and being fairly middle of the road, without an opinion on things either way........to those I say, you dont know me and untill you take time to know me and walk a mile in my shoes, you would ever begin to understand that an image like that is so way WAY off the mark.
We are all extremely multi faceted individuals, and its a shame that words on a page can make people dislike us enough to avoid us, thus possibly never even meeting someone who could become a good friend.
Had I done that in my first few weeks of posting, after having a run in with a long posting member,I would have missed out on someone I admire, like and repect greatly, and who I am honoured to call a friend (all be it a cyber one)
Of course there will always be the nasty shit stirrers who are just nasty cos they like it......smackbottom
Think I have waffled on long enough, but I hope it all makes sense.......being labelled by people that dont know you isnt fun, its not nice......and I worry about how my son will fare in life, if people are gonna do that to him sad
Mrs B worship
Quote by Peanut

It's disgusting and unacceptable that people will resort to any level of violence, but some (and seeming, increasingly more of the populous) will. sad
As for not attending events for fear of this, I for one refuse to let others dictate either directly or indirectly what I can and cannot do with my personal time and that's in real life too, not just on forums.

I should just clarify that I did not avoid the munch I was referring to because of the threat of violence. It was just that I really did not want to be in the same room as someone I find so objectionable on here.

Your loss, their gain then. Simple as that.
The earlier point that electing not to post an opinion renders it valueless is in my view facile. A lot of people may very well want to express an opinion, which is perfectly valid, but just don't want some sort or pedantic, forensic dissection of it which then leads to an abusive confrontation. This has happened increasingly on here lately.
.

An opinion left unstated is about as useful as a chocolate teapot and may as well not exist for all the difference it will make to anything or anyone.
I've seen that accusation of "dissection" levelled before and frankly I believe it is total bollocks. Any element of a discussion, debate or opinion is fair game for commenting on. If people don't go to the trouble of caring what words they use then it's tough shit if someone picks up on it.
For a website that's supposed to be adults only there does seem to be an awful lot of cry babies here. FFS you're adults, try acting like it and stop whinging and whining like someone in the playground. "Mum, that man called me names because I posted something".
So long as what is said is within the AUP then there's nothing to complain about. If people are too sensitive to take some criticism then they really shouldn't be on the net, much less trying to join in adult debate. rolleyes
I think most of the above is misguided. I don't intend to go into a lengthy explanation as to why I think so because, quite frankly, I can't be bothered. But I will just pick up on the bit in bold.
This, Peanut, is where I differ with you fundamentally. Staying within the rules is not the name of the game. It is not about avoiding being banned - it is about acknowledging other people's right to express an opinion that may differ from yours without beating them into submission to ensure that you are right all the time.
The persistent and uncontrollable urge to do that without bye or leave and sometimes in the most withering terms just demonstrates an absence of respect for other people here.
.
Quote by westerross
Staying within the rules is not the name of the game. It is not about avoiding being banned - it is about acknowledging other people's right to express an opinion that may differ from yours without beating them into submission to ensure that you are right all the time.
The persistent and uncontrollable urge to do that without bye or leave and sometimes in the most withering terms just demonstrates an absence of respect for other people here.
.

Thats pretty much the reply I typed then deleted before submitting it :thumbup:
Dave notts is one of the people i'd really like to share a couple of hours and a curry with. Why on earth someone would want to vent vitriol on him I can't think but I guessthat the men in white coats didn't put the lights out early enough to stop them confused
Dave's a top fella....
Just dont strike up a convo with him in the toilet :lol2:
Quote by westerross
The persistent and uncontrollable urge to do that without bye or leave and sometimes in the most withering terms just demonstrates an absence of respect for other people here.
.

Can I just add ........... it isn't good to post something just to hurt ....... and sometimes I think some people do!!!
Gonna step outta this one now bolt
Happy Christmas kiss
Sam xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Quote by westerross
Staying within the rules is not the name of the game. It is not about avoiding being banned - it is about acknowledging other people's right to express an opinion that may differ from yours without beating them into submission to ensure that you are right all the time.
The persistent and uncontrollable urge to do that without bye or leave and sometimes in the most withering terms just demonstrates an absence of respect for other people here.
.

Tune, it is not often that I feel the need to quote you but that is a brilliant post, well said :thumbup:
Quote by Steve
Dave's a top fella....
:

:thumbup: Yep, he even jumped over a fence to save my witches hat!!!!!!
Quote by Lost
Dave notts is one of the people i'd really like to share a couple of hours and a curry with. Why on earth someone would want to vent vitriol on him I can't think but I guessthat the men in white coats didn't put the lights out early enough to stop them confused

Dave Notts, he can never find his way anywhere but flipping heck it he is worth meeting if its possible.
As Steve said, he is one top fella :thumbup:
Quote by westerross
Staying within the rules is not the name of the game. It is not about avoiding being banned - it is about acknowledging other people's right to express an opinion that may differ from yours without beating them into submission to ensure that you are right all the time.
The persistent and uncontrollable urge to do that without bye or leave and sometimes in the most withering terms just demonstrates an absence of respect for other people here.
.

worship :worship: :worship:
This just about sums it up for me at the moment... the constant digs, the points scoring and the belittling and tearing apart of peoples posts line by line has to at some point stop.... How it is stopped I really don't care anymore, but the more I see of it, the less I really want to be here.. and I am sure I am not the only person who feels this way
thank you tune for expressing it better than I could
Quote by fabio
Staying within the rules is not the name of the game. It is not about avoiding being banned - it is about acknowledging other people's right to express an opinion that may differ from yours without beating them into submission to ensure that you are right all the time.
The persistent and uncontrollable urge to do that without bye or leave and sometimes in the most withering terms just demonstrates an absence of respect for other people here.
.

worship :worship: :worship:
This just about sums it up for me at the moment... the constant digs, the points scoring and the belittling and tearing apart of peoples posts line by line has to at some point stop.... How it is stopped I really don't care anymore, but the more I see of it, the less I really want to be here.. and I am sure I am not the only person who feels this way
thank you tune for expressing it better than I could
No Fabbo, you're not the only one: I'm one more here who feels exactly the same. Thanks to Tuney and to you for putting it perfectly.
:thumbup: :thumbup:
Quote by fabio
Staying within the rules is not the name of the game. It is not about avoiding being banned - it is about acknowledging other people's right to express an opinion that may differ from yours without beating them into submission to ensure that you are right all the time.
The persistent and uncontrollable urge to do that without bye or leave and sometimes in the most withering terms just demonstrates an absence of respect for other people here.
.
this thread just about sums it all up for me good on ya dave and to all the contibutors, look at my thread about the forums and it just mirrors what has gone on in this one , like you dave would I want to be in the same pub or room with someone who has pulled you down in any shape of form and as to meeting them ???????????????? yeah right, what goes through someones mind when posting you a reply be it on here or privately just goes beyond my comprehension , I had a mail yesterday that was purile disgusting crass infant like and down right rude.....will just be watching from now one .....
worship :worship: :worship:
This just about sums it up for me at the moment... the constant digs, the points scoring and the belittling and tearing apart of peoples posts line by line has to at some point stop.... How it is stopped I really don't care anymore, but the more I see of it, the less I really want to be here.. and I am sure I am not the only person who feels this way
thank you tune for expressing it better than I could
okay here goes...
i am now getting sick of the people who are moaning about how bad it has got here.
i could say if you dont like it leave, but then id get why should we its just the odd one or two runining it for everyone.
i could say well ignore them and the forum is what YOU make it , so make it, stop running away and post with out getting drawn into the rows or bickering
i could say stop fecking moaning and stop making everyone parinoid and bloody say who you feel is this evil forum bone picker and say exactly why.
the people nit picking about the nit pickers is all getting to much.
i know i have appologised thinking its been me in some cases, but you know what if it is someone tell me.
if you dont like a thread dont go into it.
maybe this situation has found its strength from people letting it happen, i dont mean fight back, but just fecking post. let people have a opinion, if someone decides to pull a persons thread apart cuse they have feck all better to do with their day then ignore or report them.
we cant go through life liking everyone. so accept people here are real people and some will be twatters.
and those who are doing this nit picking, why are you doing it? are you trying to grasp the meaning of every single word?
CHILLAX people.
merry christmas and a happy new year .
post and be dammed or not post and watch it fall down.
xxx fem xx
I agree with fem4! So i will name and shame .........Lost the ba*tard mad
lol
well i didnt want to say it myself, good man lost for stepping up.
now your punishment is 50 lashings bend over slowly
:twisted: mmmmmmmmm
xx fem xxx
my rant woud probally have been better in the why people dont poat( edited to say post, i dont know what poating is, and by the sonds of it no one shold do it anyway lol) any more thread lol
but that issue has driffted into every bloody thread.
there are loads of great people on here, but they must post to make it great again.
xxxx fem xx
I can understand why people are fed up with the constant posturing that's rife lately. There are a lot of good discussions being started, but they're being overrun by the endless bickering.
I don't reply to many threads nowadays, but when I do I find myself spending far too much time reviewing and re-writing in an attempt to avoid the inevitable criticism.
As a mod I find it incredibly frustrating. The small number of people spoiling things for the majority are very aware of what passes under the AUP and craft their words to skirt just inside those boundaries.
My advice for those people with an issue is to also use the AUP to address their concerns:
Your Care
You may expect that the Operators, Moderators and Admin will act in the best interest of Swinging Heaven. By adhering to the above rules, you can expect not to be harassed by any member, Op, Mod or Admin, if you feel that you have grounds for a complaint then you may contact Admin with the date time with the details of what has occurred by using the ‘Contact Us’ section of this site.

If the situation continues I personally can't see any other outcome than Admin being forced to invoke the final parts of the AUP:
Notes
Swinging Heaven have the right to change the AUP at anytime without prior notice to its members, Ops or Mods.
Swinging Heaven have the right to withdraw membership without notice or explanation.
Swinging Heaven’s decision on any matter set out in this AUP shall be final.

It will be a great pity if things reach that stage, but the bottom line is that this site is a community and the people using it should act accordingly.
If all else fails remember the old saying: Illegitimus non tatum carborundum* ;-)
*Don't let the b'stards wear you down
Fem, I fully understand what you are saying.
What I've said further up the thread is exactly that - posting what I think about something that I've been biting my tongue about for some time. I guess because it is about a specific aspect of behaviour might make it look like nit-picking. It is not intended to be I can assure you.
I know I don't have to go into any thread that I will find objectionable but there have been many occasions recently when I've been reading a very enjoyable thread and then suddenly it has - say on page 4 - descended into a nasty personal exchange between two people. Do I then read on in the hope that mature behaviour will break out by page 5 and that the entertaining part can reach its conclusion? Well probably not - I normally just leave and realise that I've just wasted 20 minutes. It's a bit like yobbos breaking up a cinema film showing with a fight half an hour before it finishes.
.
Quote by vodka_babe22uk
my rant woud probally have been better in the why people dont poat( edited to say post, i dont know what poating is, and by the sonds of it no one shold do it anyway lol) any more thread lol
but that issue has driffted into every bloody thread.
there are loads of great people on here, but they must post to make it great again.
xxxx fem xx

The Chancellor has invented a new tax, nicknamed POAT
will let you off fem as its not ur faultI heard it was Dawnie's fault. dunno bolt
Quote by vodka_babe22uk

The Chancellor has invented a new tax, nicknamed POAT
will let you off fem as its not ur fault
I heard it was Dawnie's fault. dunno bolt
your so asking for it young man
wanders off looking for choonie for a snog in a dark corner
Post and be damned! :giggle:
Quote by vodka_babe22uk
wanders off looking for choonie for a snog in a dark corner

Dark corner over here.....
wink
.
Quote by fem_4_taboo
okay here goes...
i am now getting sick of the people who are moaning about how bad it has got here.
i could say if you dont like it leave, but then id get why should we its just the odd one or two runining it for everyone.
i could say well ignore them and the forum is what YOU make it , so make it, stop running away and post with out getting drawn into the rows or bickering
i could say stop fecking moaning and stop making everyone parinoid and bloody say who you feel is this evil forum bone picker and say exactly why.
the people nit picking about the nit pickers is all getting to much.
i know i have appologised thinking its been me in some cases, but you know what if it is someone tell me.
if you dont like a thread dont go into it.
maybe this situation has found its strength from people letting it happen, i dont mean fight back, but just fecking post. let people have a opinion, if someone decides to pull a persons thread apart cuse they have feck all better to do with their day then ignore or report them.
we cant go through life liking everyone. so accept people here are real people and some will be twatters.
and those who are doing this nit picking, why are you doing it? are you trying to grasp the meaning of every single word?
CHILLAX people.
merry christmas and a happy new year .
post and be dammed or not post and watch it fall down.
xxx fem xx

I've only quoted you fem as I am replying more to your post than anything else and not singling out any of your views kiss
The bit in bold is the main thing for me....
Yes you are right in what you say but I know that so many here are now fed up with having their views made to seem pointless and irrelavant(sp) by the constant disection of their post line by line or paragraph by paragraph that they are begining to believe it ......
If someones post is proved to be rubbish or ill informed with factual replies then that is a different matter but even that can be done in a far better way than it is.....
In essence everyone has the right to post what they believe to be true/correct/right without being torn to shreds...
If they are wrong then OK.........Lets tell them........But do it in such a way as to not be so offensive and degrading....
Those that skirt around the boundries of the AUP are in my view worse than those that simply blurt out "so and so is a complete twat"....
Not sure if I'm the only one who does it but I can just imagine someone disecting a post and rubbishing opinions written by someone else and after hitting submit stiing back in their chair and folding their arms with a smug look on their face....
Maybe its just a picture I conjure up with my over active imagination dunno
Maybe its something I am/have been guilty of in the past and I just dont realise it :dunno:
If it was I would hope to God someone would tell me :shock:
Quote by Steve
Maybe its something I am/have been guilty of in the past and I just dont realise it dunno

I'm sure we all have but then most people will intersperse it with some generosity and humility when it is appropriate and demonstrate that they are human after all.
.
Quote by Cubes
It will be a great pity if things reach that stage, but the bottom line is that this site is a community and the people using it should act accordingly.

Yep, it's a community and like any other community it will contain pedants, idiots, the 'say things without thinking' brigade, the intelligent and the emotional. If you met someone in real life whose aim was to make you look daft what would you do? Ignore them perhaps? Would you run to the police complaining they were bullying you? Of course you bloody wouldn't.
It the internet ffs! It's not real life, it doesn't mean a damn thing to your day to day life.....
Yes you are right in what you say but I know that so many here are now fed up with having their views made to seem pointless and irrelavant(sp) by the constant disection of their post line by line or paragraph by paragraph that they are begining to believe it ......
If someones post is proved to be rubbish or ill informed with factual replies then that is a different matter but even that can be done in a far better way than it is.....

Really, who do this say more about? If someone holds a belief or an opinion, why is it someone cannot argue and post their own thoughts on the subject? As long as it falls within the AUP of the site what rules are being broken?
Same old thing, someone says something whether ill informed or not, doesn't like a response so the bullying card comes out. Childish in my opinion, it should be a rule added to AUP imho, you post, you accept others may disagree with you strongly or not as the case may be. You post it, you stand by it and back it up, you can't or won't back it up then rightly so, it's fair game.
I for one do not wish to be part of a forum full of sycophants whose only interest is agreeing with each other and making those who are able to debate appear to be bullies.
Post and be damned.
Quote by staffcple
Yes you are right in what you say but I know that so many here are now fed up with having their views made to seem pointless and irrelavant(sp) by the constant disection of their post line by line or paragraph by paragraph that they are begining to believe it ......
If someones post is proved to be rubbish or ill informed with factual replies then that is a different matter but even that can be done in a far better way than it is.....

Really, who do this say more about? If someone holds a belief or an opinion, why is it someone cannot argue and post their own thoughts on the subject? As long as it falls within the AUP of the site what rules are being broken?
I didnt say that an argument against any post wasn't permitted or that it wasn't right.....
I said that the way in which it is done is the bugbear...
Discussions for and against any particular subject are what keeps forums going.......It is their reason for being...
And as for no rules are being broken rolleyes
Just because it is an internet forum does not mean that people can act how they please and a lot of the time remain just inside the boundries of what is acceptable....
It wouldn't be tolerated in the outside world so why should it be tolerated here ?
Same old thing, someone says something whether ill informed or not, doesn't like a response so the bullying card comes out. Childish in my opinion, it should be a rule added to AUP imho, you post, you accept others may disagree with you strongly or not as the case may be. You post it, you stand by it and back it up, you can't or won't back it up then rightly so, it's fair game.
I for one do not wish to be part of a forum full of sycophants whose only interest is agreeing with each other and making those who are able to debate appear to be bullies.
Post and be damned.

I dont recall anyone mentioning bullying dunno though to those on the receiving end of it on an almost regualr basis it can seem that way and I sympathise with them....
And I dont want to be part of a forum where everyone is fluffy and agrees with everything everyone else posts either.....
But I do want to part of one where users have respect for other users and dont see an opportunity to demoralise/ridicule or generally disect opinions because they can as the right thing to do....
Quote by Steve
okay here goes...
i am now getting sick of the people who are moaning about how bad it has got here.
i could say if you dont like it leave, but then id get why should we its just the odd one or two runining it for everyone.
i could say well ignore them and the forum is what YOU make it , so make it, stop running away and post with out getting drawn into the rows or bickering
i could say stop fecking moaning and stop making everyone parinoid and bloody say who you feel is this evil forum bone picker and say exactly why.
the people nit picking about the nit pickers is all getting to much.
i know i have appologised thinking its been me in some cases, but you know what if it is someone tell me.
if you dont like a thread dont go into it.
maybe this situation has found its strength from people letting it happen, i dont mean fight back, but just fecking post. let people have a opinion, if someone decides to pull a persons thread apart cuse they have feck all better to do with their day then ignore or report them.
we cant go through life liking everyone. so accept people here are real people and some will be twatters.
and those who are doing this nit picking, why are you doing it? are you trying to grasp the meaning of every single word?
CHILLAX people.
merry christmas and a happy new year .
post and be dammed or not post and watch it fall down.
xxx fem xx

I've only quoted you fem as I am replying more to your post than anything else and not singling out any of your views kiss
The bit in bold is the main thing for me....
Yes you are right in what you say but I know that so many here are now fed up with having their views made to seem pointless and irrelavant(sp) by the constant disection of their post line by line or paragraph by paragraph that they are begining to believe it ...... well there opinion couldnt hae been that strong in the first place if it couldbe changed so easily, they shouldnt have posted in the first place.
If someones post is proved to be rubbish or ill informed with factual replies then that is a different matter but even that can be done in a far better way than it is.....if everyones opinion is valid then my opinion is true so therfore it over rules their opinion and thats a fact.
In essence everyone has the right to post what they believe to be true/correct/right without being torn to shreds...
If they are wrong then OK.........Lets tell them........But do it in such a way as to not be so offensive and degrading.... i find it so offensive that you think im ofensive
Those that skirt around the boundries of the AUP are in my view worse than those that simply blurt out "so and so is a complete twat"....
Not sure if I'm the only one who does it but I can just imagine someone disecting a post and rubbishing opinions written by someone else and after hitting submit stiing back in their chair and folding their arms with a smug look on their face.... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: that look??
Maybe its just a picture I conjure up with my over active imagination dunno
Maybe its something I am/have been guilty of in the past and I just dont realise it :dunno:
If it was I would hope to God someone would tell me :shock:OKAY all the above bold bits were done as a piss take ,not of you lol but it shows how easy it is to just say shit for the sake of it. come on guys it takes more than that to make a good forumite, STOP the thread pulling apart,we could all do it but we dont have RESPECT.
xxxxxxxxxxxxx fem xxxxxxxx
this was not aimed at you steve it was used purely as an example of what i have seen done.
those are NOT my views lol
Quote by Cubes
my rant woud probally have been better in the why people dont poat( edited to say post, i dont know what poating is, and by the sonds of it no one shold do it anyway lol) any more thread lol
but that issue has driffted into every bloody thread.
there are loads of great people on here, but they must post to make it great again.
xxxx fem xx

The Chancellor has invented a new tax, nicknamed POAT
will let you off fem as its not ur faultI heard it was Dawnie's fault. dunno bolt
Oi! Stop stealing my lines!!! rolleyes
:giggle: