I'll simply say this... Mark is someone I had an awful lot of respect for. Please note the use of the past tense.
EDIT: (Unable to access my Computer)
"Just a quick note to say this post was not originally a thread starter and has been turned into a new thread without my knowledge. In context, it was one slightly dissenting voice in an avalanche of praise, which accuratley reflected my opinion. Taken out of context as it now is, I feel is comes across as a far harsher criticism of Mark than I intended. I sincerely meant the first part of my post, my respect for Mark
was indeed deep and genuine. I know Mark didn't take his decision lightly, and I'm sure he's wrestled long and hard with the fact that 'taking the money' would lose him some of the respect that he has built up over the years."
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For Mark's Back
Quote by Mister_Discreet
I'll simply say this... Mark is someone I had an awful lot of respect for. Please note the use of the past tense.
without knowing everything, i know Mark put a load of effort into this...and time and money. Without him we'd be elsewhere. And all of the good times you have had via this site would never have happened.
I think you are being a bit harsh.
Quote by postie
I'll simply say this... Mark is someone I had an awful lot of respect for. Please note the use of the past tense.
without knowing everything, i know Mark put a load of effort into this...and time and money. Without him we'd be elsewhere. And all of the good times you have had via this site would never have happened.
I think you are being a bit harsh.
Postie you get a
assionkiss: It is more than a bit harsh and unnecessary too. You are in no position to judge and no position to know the exact reasons. Mark owes us nothing. He gave us an awful lot and now needs to be doing different things. I find it offensive that Mark is being talked about in these sort of terms. :twisted: :twisted:
Sex God
Before people start throwing their toys out of their prams in this thread as well just PLEASE consider the following......................
1) The New Owners may have sound business reasons for not wanting the change of ownership anounced before it was......... thats the way it is sometimes.
2) Mark may effectively have been gagged by 1) above, and even if he wasn't do you honestly think that something he started from scratch will be easy to let go of???....... for all you know the guy could be reading all of this feeling pretty emotional at the moment.
M
1) The New Owners may have sound business reasons for not wanting the change of ownership anounced before it was......... thats the way it is sometimes.
2) Mark may effectively have been gagged by 1) above, and even if he wasn't do you honestly think that something he started from scratch will be easy to let go of???....... for all you know the guy could be reading all of this feeling pretty emotional at the moment.
M
Quote by Jags
I'll simply say this... Mark is someone I had an awful lot of respect for. Please note the use of the past tense.
without knowing everything, i know Mark put a load of effort into this...and time and money. Without him we'd be elsewhere. And all of the good times you have had via this site would never have happened.
I think you are being a bit harsh.
Postie you get a
assionkiss: I'll hold you to that
:inlove:
( fuck it is late ! )
Quote by postie
I'll simply say this... Mark is someone I had an awful lot of respect for. Please note the use of the past tense.
without knowing everything, i know Mark put a load of effort into this...and time and money. Without him we'd be elsewhere. And all of the good times you have had via this site would never have happened.
I think you are being a bit harsh.
Postie you get a
assionkiss: I'll hold you to that
:inlove:
( fuck it is late ! )
Get to bed boy - you need your beauty sleep!!
Sex God
Hi Jags - don't suppose there is any chance of a snog is there? Not too snotty now 
but definitely feeling a bit mis!
Will
PS Sorry for the hijack!
but definitely feeling a bit mis!Will
PS Sorry for the hijack!
Quote by willxx69
Hi Jags - don't suppose there is any chance of a snog is there? Not too snotty now
Will
PS Sorry for the hijack!
What did I just say naughtiness
:smackbottom:Don't see him from one day to the next and then he strolls in and ignores you hmfph :cry: Flamin' typical.
Hope you're all ok Will
Jas
XXX
Sex God
Quote by Jas-Tim
Hi Jags - don't suppose there is any chance of a snog is there? Not too snotty now
Will
PS Sorry for the hijack!
What did I just say naughtiness
:smackbottom:Don't see him from one day to the next and then he strolls in and ignores you hmfph :cry: Flamin' typical.
Hope you're all ok Will
assionkiss:Jas
XXX:shock: :shock: :shock: What? Did I miss something? As if I could ever ignore you Jas. :passionkiss: :passionkiss:
We're fine thanks - and I have never forgotten that it is largely thanks to you
Will :passionkiss:
Sex God
Quote by Mister_Discreet
I'll simply say this... Mark is someone I had an awful lot of respect for. Please note the use of the past tense.
I am going to second that, harsh it may be but true.
Mark has done a great job with swinging heaven and it has been a wonderful site to be part of and a wonderful community - whether that continues is yet to be seen.
However, my last words to Mark are that I hope he was well paid.
I know being anything but touchy-feely about Mark on this thread is against the grain but to qoute various mods in the past.
"Goodbye and dont let the door hit you on the way out."
Roger the Dragon.
That's a bit harsh Roger! And rather selfish.
Surely you don't begrudge Mark having some kind of life of his own after all the hard work he has put in for us. Work he never got anything for (exept hassle from the whingers) until now.
I hope he received an obscene amount of money for this site and I hope he and his family enjoy every penny. Mark - if you are watching - good on ya!
His selfless hard work has enabled the site to become what it is. He provided the vehicle for the rest of us to become a community. Let's just be grateful to him for that.
Surely you don't begrudge Mark having some kind of life of his own after all the hard work he has put in for us. Work he never got anything for (exept hassle from the whingers) until now.
I hope he received an obscene amount of money for this site and I hope he and his family enjoy every penny. Mark - if you are watching - good on ya!
His selfless hard work has enabled the site to become what it is. He provided the vehicle for the rest of us to become a community. Let's just be grateful to him for that.
Sex God
Quote by Alexandra
That's a bit harsh Roger! And rather selfish.
Surely you don't begrudge Mark having some kind of life of his own after all the hard work he has put in for us. Work he never got anything for (exept hassle from the whingers) until now.
I hope he received an obscene amount of money for this site and I hope he and his family enjoy every penny. Mark - if you are watching - good on ya!
His selfless hard work has enabled the site to become what it is. He provided the vehicle for the rest of us to become a community. Let's just be grateful to him for that.
I stand by what I posted - and exactly what I posted.
I really do think he did a wonderful job with this site and I really do hope he got well paid.
However if he had had enough of swinging heaven there was no need to sell it to people who would turn it into a pay site, hence the slightly harsh past tense.
He has sold out - simple as that, good luck to him and I certainly wouldn't hate him for it but it does invalidate what Swinging Heaven stood for and what he created it to stand for.
Roger.
Well if the new owners are true to their word, they will not make what we currently have, chargeable.
They stated that they may charge for 'premium services' but existing members would not be charged initially - and in fact, may never be charged. I am not niaive in assuming this is written in stone - but it shows their initial thoughts on the matter.
So, as long as their statement that the site services we currently enjoy are not made chargeable remains true - where is the problem?
There are more than a few members who are quite capable of creating a similar set up to what we have now (in fact I was chatting to one last night who has the capability and the available server space). I am certain the new owners are very aware of the fact that if they upset the apple cart too much they will essentially lose their client base.
They stated that they may charge for 'premium services' but existing members would not be charged initially - and in fact, may never be charged. I am not niaive in assuming this is written in stone - but it shows their initial thoughts on the matter.
So, as long as their statement that the site services we currently enjoy are not made chargeable remains true - where is the problem?
There are more than a few members who are quite capable of creating a similar set up to what we have now (in fact I was chatting to one last night who has the capability and the available server space). I am certain the new owners are very aware of the fact that if they upset the apple cart too much they will essentially lose their client base.
Quote by Alexandra
Well if the new owners are true to their word, they will not make what we currently have, chargeable.
They stated that they may charge for 'premium services' but existing members would not be charged initially - and in fact, may never be charged. I am not niaive in assuming this is written in stone - but it shows their initial thoughts on the matter.
So, as long as their statement that the site services we currently enjoy are not made chargeable remains true - where is the problem?
There are more than a few members who are quite capable of creating a similar set up to what we have now (in fact I was chatting to one last night who has the capability and the available server space). I am certain the new owners are very aware of the fact that if they upset the apple cart too much they will essentially lose their client base.
I agree with Alexandra..!
CheekyChimp.....
It's all very well saying that this was a choice that Mark had to make. God knows, I am well aware of how the smallest of web sites can consume your life. BUT, did he have to do it the way that he did, selling the community in effect? If he valued the fact that this site is free so much - as in the 'This is a Free Site' section - then why could he not have offered it to the moderators to run as a co-operative? Why couldn't he have asked ANYONE to step into his shoes as a way of keeping everything free.
Brian and Sue.
Brian and Sue.
Quote by suzyandbrian1973
It's all very well saying that this was a choice that Mark had to make. God knows, I am well aware of how the smallest of web sites can consume your life. BUT, did he have to do it the way that he did, selling the community in effect? If he valued the fact that this site is free so much - as in the 'This is a Free Site' section - then why could he not have offered it to the moderators to run as a co-operative? Why couldn't he have asked ANYONE to step into his shoes as a way of keeping everything free.
Brian and Sue.
And why is it wrong to get some kind of monetary compansation for all his work?
He has a young family to consider - he has given up so much of his time in the past 3+ years and we have benefited from that. It is only right he gets some benefit from it too.
I wonder how many of the members of this community actually made a donation to help with site admin? Not very many I reckon - perhaps if we all had, Mark could have employed someone to assist him. This was a service he provided at no cost to us but at great cost to him and his family.
I wish everyone would stop berating him and just be bloody grateful he bothered to do it in the first place.
So many ungrateful sods on here - I am stunned!
Quote by Alexandra
It's all very well saying that this was a choice that Mark had to make. God knows, I am well aware of how the smallest of web sites can consume your life. BUT, did he have to do it the way that he did, selling the community in effect? If he valued the fact that this site is free so much - as in the 'This is a Free Site' section - then why could he not have offered it to the moderators to run as a co-operative? Why couldn't he have asked ANYONE to step into his shoes as a way of keeping everything free.
Brian and Sue.
And why is it wrong to get some kind of monetary compansation for all his work?
He has a young family to consider - he has given up so much of his time in the past 3+ years and we have benefited from that. It is only right he gets some benefit from it too.
I wonder how many of the members of this community actually made a donation to help with site admin? Not very many I reckon - perhaps if we all had, Mark could have employed someone to assist him. This was a service he provided at no cost to us but at great cost to him and his family.
I wish everyone would stop berating him and just be bloody grateful he bothered to do it in the first place.
So many ungrateful sods on here - I am stunned!
If Mark wanted universal thanks - or gave a toss about what we thought - he would have found a better way to do things AND have kept us all better informed.
Have another read of the section headed "This is a Free Site" and tell me whether people had every right to expect him NOT to make a fast buck at our expense.
Brian.
PS Mark seems to have had a lot of people assisting him. He dumped on them from a great hight too.
Sex God
Quote by suzyandbrian1973
Have another read of the section headed "This is a Free Site" and tell me whether people had every right to expect him NOT to make a fast buck at our expense.
Brian.
PS Mark seems to have had a lot of people assisting him. He dumped on them from a great hight too.
Have you bothered to read anything written by the people who were assisting Mark? Because as far as I can see, we've all wished Mark and his family the very best for the future and thanked him for setting up the site in the first place!
And please can you explain just how he's "made a fast buck at our expense"? Because the stuff I've read so far leads me to believe that (at least for the next 12 months) this isn't going to cost us anything!!
Sex God
Quote by Alexandra
It's all very well saying that this was a choice that Mark had to make. God knows, I am well aware of how the smallest of web sites can consume your life. BUT, did he have to do it the way that he did, selling the community in effect? If he valued the fact that this site is free so much - as in the 'This is a Free Site' section - then why could he not have offered it to the moderators to run as a co-operative? Why couldn't he have asked ANYONE to step into his shoes as a way of keeping everything free.
Brian and Sue.
And why is it wrong to get some kind of monetary compansation for all his work?
He has a young family to consider - he has given up so much of his time in the past 3+ years and we have benefited from that. It is only right he gets some benefit from it too.
I wonder how many of the members of this community actually made a donation to help with site admin? Not very many I reckon - perhaps if we all had, Mark could have employed someone to assist him. This was a service he provided at no cost to us but at great cost to him and his family.
I wish everyone would stop berating him and just be bloody grateful he bothered to do it in the first place.
So many ungrateful sods on here - I am stunned!
I am not so sure that it is ingratitude so much as a feeling that the underlieing principles of the site have changed - the whole basis behind Swinging Heaven is/was that it is/was free. It is one of the first words in the site description and it has been refered to repeatedly by the Mods as justification for what is or isnt permitted, it underlies the ethics of what munches and parties are allowed and in my opinion it is fundemental to what Mark wanted for the site. I think it is a shame that someone has respected as he was within the site has seen fit to hand on the site in the manner he has - I think he has probably done himself and his values more of a dis-service than he has to any of us.
If that feeling makes me ungrateful then so be it. I wont pass judgement on the new owners as we are yet to see what they will actually do, maybe Mark's legacy will depend on how wisely he has chosen the people to continue with the site.
Roger.
Quote by suzyandbrian1973
It's all very well saying that this was a choice that Mark had to make. God knows, I am well aware of how the smallest of web sites can consume your life. BUT, did he have to do it the way that he did, selling the community in effect? If he valued the fact that this site is free so much - as in the 'This is a Free Site' section - then why could he not have offered it to the moderators to run as a co-operative? Why couldn't he have asked ANYONE to step into his shoes as a way of keeping everything free.
Brian and Sue.
And why is it wrong to get some kind of monetary compansation for all his work?
He has a young family to consider - he has given up so much of his time in the past 3+ years and we have benefited from that. It is only right he gets some benefit from it too.
I wonder how many of the members of this community actually made a donation to help with site admin? Not very many I reckon - perhaps if we all had, Mark could have employed someone to assist him. This was a service he provided at no cost to us but at great cost to him and his family.
I wish everyone would stop berating him and just be bloody grateful he bothered to do it in the first place.
So many ungrateful sods on here - I am stunned!
If Mark wanted universal thanks - or gave a toss about what we thought - he would have found a better way to do things AND have kept us all better informed.
Have another read of the section headed "This is a Free Site" and tell me whether people had every right to expect him NOT to make a fast buck at our expense.
Brian.
PS Mark seems to have had a lot of people assisting him. He dumped on them from a great hight too.
I dissagree............
I suspect Mark did a lot of soul searching and I know the desision was not reached lightly..
His main reason was a personal one and one which we should all respect...
Do you know how many times he has been gotten out of bed at 3am to assist in making running repairs or attend to things that only he could tend to??
I suggest we all kick back and see how things progress and then we can start making basically what amount to slanderous comments....
Quote by Angel Chat
Have another read of the section headed "This is a Free Site" and tell me whether people had every right to expect him NOT to make a fast buck at our expense.
Brian.
PS Mark seems to have had a lot of people assisting him. He dumped on them from a great hight too.
Have you bothered to read anything written by the people who were assisting Mark? Because as far as I can see, we've all wished Mark and his family the very best for the future and thanked him for setting up the site in the first place!
And please can you explain just how he's "made a fast buck at our expense"? Because the stuff I've read so far leads me to believe that (at least for the next 12 months) this isn't going to cost us anything!!
Well, I'm speaking for myself here, not my wife, but I think that Mark has quite simply betrayed everything that he promised the community about it being free and run by swingers, for swingers. Anyone who believes that the SH community isn't going to lose out in the long term has their head in the clouds. Having once been accused of trying to make money out of a website by Mark (We weren't) I can't find it in myself to forgive him for selling SH without exploring other options. If I am wrong in what I am saying then why doesn't Mark have the decency to come here and explain himself?
Brian.
Quote by suzyandbrian1973
Have another read of the section headed "This is a Free Site" and tell me whether people had every right to expect him NOT to make a fast buck at our expense.
Brian.
PS Mark seems to have had a lot of people assisting him. He dumped on them from a great hight too.
Have you bothered to read anything written by the people who were assisting Mark? Because as far as I can see, we've all wished Mark and his family the very best for the future and thanked him for setting up the site in the first place!
And please can you explain just how he's "made a fast buck at our expense"? Because the stuff I've read so far leads me to believe that (at least for the next 12 months) this isn't going to cost us anything!!
Well, I'm speaking for myself here, not my wife, but I think that Mark has quite simply betrayed everything that he promised the community about it being free and run by swingers, for swingers. Anyone who believes that the SH community isn't going to lose out in the long term has their head in the clouds. Having once been accused of trying to make money out of a website by Mark (We weren't) I can't find it in myself to forgive him for selling SH without exploring other options. If I am wrong in what I am saying then why doesn't Mark have the decency to come here and explain himself?
Brian.
It was Marks site to do with as he wished...
Do you seek permission if you want to sell your car/house etc??........No
So why should he consult you if he finds he is no longer able to dedicate the time and resources to a site which keeps growing and needs constant attention ?
he did what he did for the best of reasons and I wish peeps would just stop knocking him...
Gets right on my fukin tits it does
:banghead: :banghead: Quote by suzyandbrian1973
Well, I'm speaking for myself here, not my wife, but I think that Mark has quite simply betrayed everything that he promised the community about it being free and run by swingers, for swingers. Anyone who believes that the SH community isn't going to lose out in the long term has their head in the clouds. Having once been accused of trying to make money out of a website by Mark (We weren't) I can't find it in myself to forgive him for selling SH without exploring other options. If I am wrong in what I am saying then why doesn't Mark have the decency to come here and explain himself?
Brian.
I really really hope that you are notsuggesting that Mark is not a decent person? I've read some utter nonsense this morning and am absolutely disgusted by what is being said about Mark.
I've said this just now to someone in PM but I'll say it here;
Mark gave you this site, your friends, your social life and your swinging life - he owes you nothing. He gave you a lot and you have given nothing! Now, how he choses to move on with his life is none of your business. Those who actually KNOW Mark appreciate the dilemna he was put under and those of you who don't know him have no idea. Be grateful that you've had the time here that you have had. If the site folds then you've gained a shedload of good stuff and if the site remains it'll be because people have pulled together. Either pull with us or move on out. Message is the same.
:roll: :roll: Sex God
Quote by suzyandbrian1973
[Well, I'm speaking for myself here, not my wife, but I think that Mark has quite simply betrayed everything that he promised the community about it being free and run by swingers, for swingers. Anyone who believes that the SH community isn't going to lose out in the long term has their head in the clouds. Having once been accused of trying to make money out of a website by Mark (We weren't) I can't find it in myself to forgive him for selling SH without exploring other options. If I am wrong in what I am saying then why doesn't Mark have the decency to come here and explain himself?
Brian.
What if... Mark spent a long time thinking about how much his family were losing out on his time when, after 3 years of running this site for no financial reward and that job was becoming a bigger and bigger burden. What if he set the site up with the sole intention of it being always and forever free without any comprehension of just how many people would want to use that resource. What if he was woken at 3am to sort out problems and then got nothing but abuse and complaints for his troubles. What if you had to deal with all this, and more than likely a hell of a lot more, but had previously said that you would do this for nothing. What would you do?
I suspect you don't really know the answer to that question because you aren't and never will be in that position. I also think that rather than slating the man who provided this service for 3 years plus without ever charging you for it, you should be thanking him and stop being so selfish and ungrateful.
The new site owners appear to be taking our comments on board. It remains to be seen whether they really will listen, but let's not forget the 3 years or so we did get from Mark.
Quote by suzyandbrian1973
Have another read of the section headed "This is a Free Site" and tell me whether people had every right to expect him NOT to make a fast buck at our expense.
Brian.
PS Mark seems to have had a lot of people assisting him. He dumped on them from a great hight too.
Have you bothered to read anything written by the people who were assisting Mark? Because as far as I can see, we've all wished Mark and his family the very best for the future and thanked him for setting up the site in the first place!
And please can you explain just how he's "made a fast buck at our expense"? Because the stuff I've read so far leads me to believe that (at least for the next 12 months) this isn't going to cost us anything!!
Well, I'm speaking for myself here, not my wife, but I think that Mark has quite simply betrayed everything that he promised the community about it being free and run by swingers, for swingers. Anyone who believes that the SH community isn't going to lose out in the long term has their head in the clouds. Having once been accused of trying to make money out of a website by Mark (We weren't) I can't find it in myself to forgive him for selling SH without exploring other options. If I am wrong in what I am saying then why doesn't Mark have the decency to come here and explain himself?
Brian.
We never owned the site in the first place - Mark did. As for the fact that things have changed and Mark has felt is necessary to sell - then people's lives and their circumstances change. We do not know (and nor do we have any right to know) Mark's personal circumstances.
Mark has sold the site - not us. We are all adults and can choose to stay or go. We all know where the exit is.
Quote by Jags
Well, I'm speaking for myself here, not my wife, but I think that Mark has quite simply betrayed everything that he promised the community about it being free and run by swingers, for swingers. Anyone who believes that the SH community isn't going to lose out in the long term has their head in the clouds. Having once been accused of trying to make money out of a website by Mark (We weren't) I can't find it in myself to forgive him for selling SH without exploring other options. If I am wrong in what I am saying then why doesn't Mark have the decency to come here and explain himself?
Brian.
I really really hope that you are notsuggesting that Mark is not a decent person? I've read some utter nonsense this morning and am absolutely disgusted by what is being said about Mark.
I've said this just now to someone in PM but I'll say it here;
Mark gave you this site, your friends, your social life and your swinging life - he owes you nothing. He gave you a lot and you have given nothing! Now, how he choses to move on with his life is none of your business. Those who actually KNOW Mark appreciate the dilemna he was put under and those of you who don't know him have no idea. Be grateful that you've had the time here that you have had. If the site folds then you've gained a shedload of good stuff and if the site remains it'll be because people have pulled together. Either pull with us or move on out. Message is the same.
:roll: :roll:And I STILL say that Mark should have come here and said his piece himself. And while he was at it, he could have told us how much money he got for this 'free forever' website.
I have no idea whether or not Mark is a decent person and will probably never find out. All I do know is that if he wanted this to be a stress free change of ownership where nobody got upset then he could have gone about things a lot better. Telling us more about who we now answer to on here would have helped as well. We will only ever have their side of things when we ask them a question now.
Come on, seriously. Are you actually saying that Mark couldn't have handled this better?
Brian.
Quote by suzyandbrian1973
Well, I'm speaking for myself here, not my wife, but I think that Mark has quite simply betrayed everything that he promised the community about it being free and run by swingers, for swingers. Anyone who believes that the SH community isn't going to lose out in the long term has their head in the clouds. Having once been accused of trying to make money out of a website by Mark (We weren't) I can't find it in myself to forgive him for selling SH without exploring other options. If I am wrong in what I am saying then why doesn't Mark have the decency to come here and explain himself?
Brian.
I really really hope that you are notsuggesting that Mark is not a decent person? I've read some utter nonsense this morning and am absolutely disgusted by what is being said about Mark.
I've said this just now to someone in PM but I'll say it here;
Mark gave you this site, your friends, your social life and your swinging life - he owes you nothing. He gave you a lot and you have given nothing! Now, how he choses to move on with his life is none of your business. Those who actually KNOW Mark appreciate the dilemna he was put under and those of you who don't know him have no idea. Be grateful that you've had the time here that you have had. If the site folds then you've gained a shedload of good stuff and if the site remains it'll be because people have pulled together. Either pull with us or move on out. Message is the same.
:roll: :roll:And I STILL say that Mark should have come here and said his piece himself. And while he was at it, he could have told us how much money he got for this 'free forever' website.
I have no idea whether or not Mark is a decent person and will probably never find out. All I do know is that if he wanted this to be a stress free change of ownership where nobody got upset then he could have gone about things a lot better. Telling us more about who we now answer to on here would have helped as well. We will only ever have their side of things when we ask them a question now.
Come on, seriously. Are you actually saying that Mark couldn't have handled this better?
Brian.
Why the fuck should he tell you how much he got for the sale of HIS invention???
If all you wanna do is knock the bloke I suggest you try and start a new thread as this one is only meant for good things not the mindless negativity that is all too prevolant at the moment.....
Sex God
Quote by Jags
Mark gave you this site, your friends, your social life and your swinging life - he owes you nothing. He gave you a lot and you have given nothing! Now, how he choses to move on with his life is none of your business. Those who actually KNOW Mark appreciate the dilemna he was put under and those of you who don't know him have no idea. Be grateful that you've had the time here that you have had. If the site folds then you've gained a shedload of good stuff and if the site remains it'll be because people have pulled together. Either pull with us or move on out. Message is the same.
Fair comment - however I do have two reservations.
Firstly, those of us who do not "Know" Mark in real life have only his posts to go on the same as we do with everyone else we haven't met yet, and to suggest that therefore our opinions are less important merely underlines that "c" word that we dont talk about.
Secondly, the site does exist because of Mark, however it would be a bit silly to forget that its success is due to all the people who make it up.
Roger.
