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Freedom - the Illusion

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TDH asked this in a string recently:
I know you are a moderator responsibilities etc...but does smack of censorship...and doesnt allow an honest impression of the individual..
TDH asked it as an honest question, it might sound a bit off quoted out of context like this, it really wasn't at all. It was a perfectly understandable question under the circumstances.
This question, and others like it, did make me think about the role of the moderators on the site, and the way that role is performed.
This string has the title "Freedom, the illusion" for a reason. There are some environments which are tightly controlled, the restrictions are rigid and confining like cages. You can see the boundaries and you are aware of them at all times. To be fair, often they are neutral, they are there to keep you in, but also to keep you safe.
Other environments allow more freedom to explore. You may be lucky enough to wander round and never actually bump into them. This gives the illusion of freedom.
The boundaries ARE there, and they are rigorously patrolled and enforced.
This is the nature of the site - the ethos is to allow a freedom within boundaries, which can be explored in safety. The role of the moderators is to ensure those boundaries are maintained and respected by all. The moderators were all members first, and became moderators because their personal boundaries were seen to compliment those of the site, and because they spend a great deal of time on the site by personal choice.
They are all very different people, who compromise with each other over their own personal values in order to strike a balance between freedom, honesty, openess, security, and respect for others. There is no real attempt to produce moderating clones. Diversity is one of the most important features of this site.
On to the point of all this blathering. The boundaries are not inflexible, and at times have been, and should continue to be challenged.
As there currently do not seem to be any emotive or personal issues on the table, I thought this might be a good time to invite comment on the moderating function within this site.
Things you think work really well.
Things you think could be improved.
Things you think should be dropped.
As much as possible, the site should be reflecting the collective attitudes and personal values of as many site members as possible.
Do you think this is being achieved??
PM's are welcome if you want to answer the question anonymously.
lhk
Kat
Kat Bluexxx and others...
I m impressed by the mods role where they get the time I do not know... same goes for those that police the Chatroom...
Keep up the very good work
Gmanxxx
Kat
I know I am still new on here but in my experience the mods are providing an excellent service. It would be unreasonable for anyone to expect that a wrong decision cannot be made as the mods are also human. However, all I have witnessed is fairness, friendliness and a very strong sense of caring for the site and it's members.
What amazes me is how you can do all this whilst obviously still having enormous fun on here.
Alex x x
Thinking about things that could be improved, couldn’t the “Lets Meet Up” area be just that, an area to “Post meet here, including personal meets, party invites, club get togethers, Munches, webcam sessions, phonesex and instant messaging”? If points are to be made about the content of an ad then let it be done by PM. If it’s a crap ad then it won’t be replied to, simple as. It can be pretty intimidating for people to post here, and, although I get the point about “making friends” in the forum first, that section isn’t headed “Lets meet up if you have posted regularly in the forum, made friends etc  Some couples/singles just want to meet strangers for sex, they aren’t interested in pursuing a friendship, and they shouldn’t be criticised for that. This site is here to serve all sorts of people, and if people are driven away then it’s the site that suffers. I’m sure everyone appreciates the hard work that is put in by everyone who helps to maintain the site and this is not a criticism, just a suggestion as to how things might be improved
Just in support of the great piece by Kat I have to say that us mods constantly communicate with each other about most things on the site.
For example - I recently asked the others to read a particular story because I really didn't like it and would have quite happily deleted it. The majority response was along the lines of 'we don't think it's our personal taste but it's not bad enough to delete', so it's still there.
My personal gripes have always been users who clog up the site, ie register and never post or the likes. maybe some culling of these is in order. Also sometimes you cannot tell if the person is male/female. A mod is a responsible job but like so many others good/bad cop stuff. i think if you run foul of one, and you express a decent attitude, say you said something out of context, then it can be clarified and diverted to the heap, legs slapped and the likes. If however you are just an arsehole, end of story, then to be honest I think why are you bothering at all to be on the site? I would just like to have a few more respond to some of my own post at times, but then I guess that is always the case if you are slightly off the in crowd.... Anyone kicking about with some time for a laugh always welcome to my posts...I dont bite...unless asked that is...!
As I have mentioned on a recent thread, I believe that the Mods do a fantastic job and are paramount to the popularity of this site.
I have, however noticed that sometimes threads are locked for no apparent reason. I just wondered what the criteria for locking a thread was?
I ask this not as a criticism, more as a point of curiosity.
Quote by Sgt Bilko
I have, however noticed that sometimes threads are locked for no apparent reason. I just wondered what the criteria for locking a thread was?
I ask this not as a criticism, more as a point of curiosity.

Hi Sarge..
Threads tend to be locked when they have run their natural course.. or if arguments tend to be going round in circles.. or if the original poster asks for it to be locked. Any thread can be unlocked if you would like to add something to it.
hope this helps
Steve
x
Sgt Bilko wrote:
I have, however noticed that sometimes threads are locked for no apparent reason. I just wondered what the criteria for locking a thread was? I ask this not as a criticism, more as a point of curiosity.

Hi Sarge.
The Forum, like the Chatroom has guides for moderators or System Operators to follow. In the Chatroon the rules are posted and all those entering the Chatroom are supposed to read them. (Sadly many do not)Certain subjects are forbidden e.g. The use of illegal substances, Under age sex etc. What the moderators and system ops have to remember is; That both the Forum and the Chatroom are public places and can be entered by anyone with access to a PC. Whilst I hope we all enjoy the various sites within Swinging Heaven, we have to be aware that complaints can be made by persons who do not approve of this site.
We do not want the site to be withdrawn, so policing it by Moderators and System Operators has to be the way to go. Most, if not all sites, with Forums or Chatrooms have some form of moderating going on. Even a sedate site like BIRD FORUM (An Ornithological Site) has moderators in their Forum.
In general terms I believe the Forum Moderators and the Chatroom System Operators, who are all unpaid volunteers do a bloody good job. We like this site or we wouldn't be 'Modding' or 'Opping' on it.
Harry0
This is the onlysite I look at; that can only because of the cracking job that is done by the 'mods' and' administrators'. Just cast a jaundiced eye over some of the quackery and rubbish that is peddled on the other 'swingers' sites'. Bomnus of course, umpteen free diallers every time you log on: problem is, you don't know about them until your wife gets the phone bill.
No, Mods do a fair job, considering the nature of humanity that confronts them.
Carry on ladies and Gentlemen
A
I liken this site to a newly emerging society that wants to become a democracy - in that the founding fathers probably were 'like minded' individuals with similar sensitivities and outlooks upon life - otherwise it probably wouldn't have been formed in the first place.
Once having been formed society tends to look for others to share its beliefs with and so grows - as the society gather more and more members opinions become more and more diverse and as such a degree of self regulation becomes necessary even if only from a purely administrative need.
'Society' (sic) grows, views become more disparate and self regulation becomes a more organic being and starts to develops 'rules' designed to support the needs of all members and the ever widening bredth of opinions as the membership grows (no pun intended!)
The more members, the more opinions are likely to be different from those of the 'founding fathers' but if the overarching aim is to allow a forum for 'like minded' (how loose that might be by now!) individuals to participate then there will always be a percentage of those that may be on the edge of accepted norms and views - it is at that point that the 'Moderators' have to exercise judgement on behalf of the 'society' as a whole - and in my opinion they do a damn fine job.
I think we have to accept that there will always be a number of people whose views may be different to mine.....but thats the price you pay for a democracy where each persons view is just as valid as anothers.
If someone wants to sign in as a 'guest' - let them - if they want to sign in as 'Vlad the Impala' (leaping majestically across the Veldt!) let them!
As long as people respect each other and the right to hold opposing views then I believe the 'society' will grow and be better for it.
I trust the 'Moderators' to uphold for the majority.
Crikey - didn't think I was going to type for that long! But thats one of the things I love about this site ...... I can!
I can't remember the exact quote or who said it, but something along the lines of "I may not agree with you, but I defend to the end your right to hold that view"
But then again i must just be talking complete bollocks! LOL
PS - If the 'Moderators' are the police - I'd love Dawn_Mids to handcuff me and make me serve out a sentence at 'Her Majesties pleasure!'
Quote by Feenix
But then again i must just be talking complete bollocks! LOL
Nope Nailed it Feenix. Thank you.
Quote by Feenix
"I may not agree with you, but I defend to the end your right to hold that view"
Wish I had thought of that! But it sent me on a hunt........
The phrase "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" is widely attributed to Voltaire, but cannot be found in his writings. With good reason. The phrase was invented by a later author as an epitome of his attitude. It appeared in The Friends of Voltaire (1906), written by Evelyn Beatrice Hall under the pseudonym S G. Tallentyre.
Hall herself claimed later that she had been paraphrasing Voltaire's words in his Essay on Tolerance: "Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so too."

It sort of sums up what I was trying to say.
lhk
lhk
Scot
By that comment, I assume you are referring to me?
Although I had no intention of 'posts for the sake of it' occasionally they may have seemed so! There really was NO competition - that was a jokey thing somebody started in a thread and I continued the joke for a little while. Yes I let out a 'woohoo' when I reached 500 - but IT WAS ALL IN FUN!
The first week I was on the site - yes I probably posted in each and every thread I saw. I had plenty of time on my hands and I did get a little carried away. However by entering into so many threads I also learnt a lot and got to know some really lovely people a lot faster than I may otherwise have done. Likewise, those who have taken the time to contact me by PM, have also got to know my character a bit!
My actions may have irritated some members for which I apologise. It was never an intention to be a pest. I am certainly more careful about my postings, but I have no intention of stopping the occasional 'no value post' if it is in the name of having fun on here! Yes, some threads are serious and should remain so but many are just for fun and enjoyment - but if we restrict ALL responses to only those which add anything constructive to the site - many posters would feel quite intimidated and refrain from joining in.
Surely there should be room for all in this forum?
Hugs,
Alex x x
From someone, who regularly posts stuff of no real value in the 'come and shag me baby'...'I gotta big tool' stakes, I think it is just part of being an individual. If all the forum members just came on for a shag and a few smutty comments to tittilate and the likes, then It would not have a forum part. It offers scope to lets meet and the likes, and ok some stuff is wacky and OTT, but life is so? I will not and shall not ever become so serious to stop my ramblings, because they are part of me, and it is how I would like to have people know me. I think some have a false persona when they enter this site, and that is cool, but they only fool themselves?
As far as constructive comments, a screw is just a screw...end of story. What happens in real life is people get to know each other, and sex is MORE fun that way. Well in my books anyhows....
Quote by Honey
It is not helpful to comment on the content of peoples posts in Lets Meet Up
Broadly speaking?
Quote by Scot
some people are just having some sort of competition, to see who can have the most posts on here, and have nothing constructive to offer the site.

Quote by Alex
By that comment, I assume you are referring to me?

I took a different view - I thought Honey and Scot were commenting on the Moderating of Lets Meet Up.
That is the purpose of this thread, to give everyone the opportunity to contribute to how the site should be moderated. If you feel there is a moderating issue here, please identify it.
lhk
Honey said:
Quote:
It is not helpful to comment on the content of peoples posts in Lets Meet Up
Broadly speaking?I hope I summarised right.
If I understand it correctly, you are suggesting that postings in 'Lets Meet Up' Should stand as they are, good or bad, and the only replies that are posted on them should be responding to the advert, and not commenting on the content?
In terms of a moderating role that would require:
Moderators to NOT do it
Moderators to delete/edit any response which does comment on the content.
If individuals wish to comment on the content, it should be done by PM?
lhk
Kat
I did think hard and long before I replied to Scot in this thread as I do believe this is one of the threads which should NOT be hi-jacked.
I have tried to self 'moderate' my postings somewhat over the past few days. So perhaps there may be a small moderating issue here. Or perhaps we should have additional forums to the 3 we already have. Some to deal with more serious issues or help and advice. The Cafe could remain the fun and inane place it often it
Hugs,
Alex x
Alexandra wrote:-
Surely there should be room for all in this forum?

Of course there is Alexandra, by definition a Forum is a place where anyone can have their say on any matter. It's one of the few places that anyone can say (within the Forum Rules) exactly what they want to say. Comments can be critical, humerous, supportive or whatever. The number of posts a person makes is really irrelevant.
How many posts a person makes depends on the time they have available to enter The Forum. During the period November - March I could be in the forum all my waking hours because my work is seasonal. However, from April - October I can be working 18 hours a day and barely get the opportunity to scan the Forum, never mind put up a lot of 'posts'.
Whether SCOTTS post was aimed at Alexandra or not, I have found her 'posts' instructive, informative and humerous. From PM's I also know she is a very sensitive, kind and understanding lady. I for one would miss her 'posts' if she took offence at what is, in all honesty, totally undeserved criticism.
Harry0
_______________________
Quote by HarryO
by definition a Forum is a place where anyone can have their say on any matter. It's one of the few places that anyone can say (within the Forum Rules) exactly what they want to say.
Most of the rules are never defined, just sort of grow and become accepted. This (as Feenix said) is what has happened within the site.
It is not difficult to imagine that everyone has a slightly different perception of what the rules are. This can, and has, led to confusion and conflict.
Don't bring problems to this thread if you can avoid it. Say what you want, not what you don't want.
lhk
Thanks for that Harry - I'll pop the cheques in the pst later! wink
But I do think some of the critcism was probably warranted.
Now enough of that and let's get this thread back on track!
This thread is one of the more serious issues to be raised and anything constructive posted can only be to the benefit of this site
Hugs, Alex !
well kat i wasn't expecting debate like this in a swingers forum but when you think about it freedom and boundaries are at the heart of what we do.
i'm a newbie by the way and i've found the site immensely helpful.
during my teens and early twenties i acted like some kind of weekend anarchist, i rebelled against any sort of authority and control. looking back i can see the roots. after leaving school i worked for a famous ship based pirate radio station until the point when it was boarded by british government officials and violently shut down. thereafter any mention of governemnt by me was usually coupled with totaletarian. i can see my petty rebelling against the state just made me sound like a prick.
now i realise that human beings need guidance, they need boundaries set for them and without rules anarchy will ensue. i believe democracy, true democracy does not and can never exsist, because it doesn't work. nothing gets done cus everyone is being so bloody democratic. there has to be someone, or more likely some people at the helm. now i did not elect the moderators of this site but if i do not agree with their actions i am free to leave. that's as pure as democracy gets.
i get a good feeling about this site and when i disagree with the rules, boundaries or regulations that are imposed then, you'll hear from me, or not....... so in a nutshell (case more like), if the moderators are power crazed fanatics, then the site will soon fail, and it has not. yes i know this sounds soooo middle class but most 'decent' people can spot fairness a mile off..
god, was that a ramble or did it qualify as a mad rant???? any way enough of this heavy stuff i though we were here for sex and friendship.....
:jagsatwork: ? I only get power crazy when someone pays me to be it (i.e. at work!!) or when a man begs me to be it!!
I don't think you'll find any power crazy mods here.
As was pointed out by Kitkat, my comment was about the "Lets Meet Up "section. I find The Cafe very entertaining as it is! lol
Bed-head
hello and welcome from a fellow Salopian. May I say tht I enjoyed your thoroughly reasoned and interesting argument; I also agree with you.
A.
Scot see my appropriate apology in Cardnet's post. I was and have been out of order I apologise.
Gmanxxx
'As much as possible, the site should be reflecting the collective attitudes and personal values of as many site members as possible.
Do you think this is being achieved?? '
Indeed I do, and I'd like to take this opportunity to thank the mods for their ongoing devotion to the upkeep of this site. Moreover, I think it's worth bearing in mind that whatever degree to which SH becomes more and more public, ultimately it remains a private site, and thus at the discretion of those who run it to control it. I've seen this argument run on completely different sites, but the fundamental point is the same.
Quote by bed Head
well kat i wasn't expecting debate like this in a swingers forum
One of the reasons the site is so popular is because it promotes "Thinking Swinging". This is also part of the underpinning ethos of the site.
lhk
Very interesting topic Kat…..Thanks for posting it.
Here goes……
I honestly feel our Moderators are all very different and bring their own little something to the table. (Don’t get me onto difference and diversity, we could be here all night.)
I truly believe that we all have a right to speak our minds but we must not confuse this with basic manners.
You can write what you like in the forum but if it is considered offensive by those who moderate then you run the risk of the thread being locked or your post deleted. Is this fair? Is this a democracy? We all have our own views on the answer to those questions.
I personally am intrigued by others points of view and have very rarely seen anyone slated or abused for having a different opinion. People may disagree with others and there is nothing wrong with that. There will be occasions in a democracy when a person or groups of people are offended by what another person has to say. This does not mean we have to be abusive about others views. I have not agreed with many views in this forum but have never been rude (uhoh better go check my postings) to another member about their beliefs. Although get me on the drugs and illegal stuff and beware of my wrath!
Quote Kat:
As much as possible, the site should be reflecting the collective attitudes and personal values of as many site members as possible.
Do you think this is being achieved??

Yes Kat I do think the site reflects the collective attitudes of the members as much as is possible.
I believe people should be responsible enough to consider the impact of their postings upon others.
It is the responsibility of the Mods to take appropriate measures to protect the site and it’s members. Without them where would this site be? Think about it just for a moment and I think you will find the answer.
Love
Wilma
x x x x
See how serious I can be when I want to be!
Ok, I promised myself and someone else on here, that I wouldn't post on this thread as I felt it had all been said rather eloquently and the issues put forward raised a super response.
However, one thing I feel has to be said regarding the moderators is consistency. As long as all sing from the same hymn sheet and act on the same things in the same way...there can be no issues...however, there are times when "rules", written or unwritten are breeched and no-one acts. That I understand is down to personal opinion of the Mods, however many has been the time that personal opinion and expression of members has been criticised etc and like Wilma points out above
I truly believe that we all have a right to speak our minds but we must not confuse this with basic manners.
You can write what you like in the forum but if it is considered offensive by those who moderate then you run the risk of the thread being locked or your post deleted. Is this fair? Is this a democracy? We all have our own views on the answer to those questions.

As long as posts do not breach any laws or offend anyone surely people can express themselves in their own way. If someone wants to post "I have a fat eight inch cock and big titted wife..come and shag us " in the let's meet forum, then that is their choice/personality, its no ones business whether they get responses or not, it certainly isn't anyone business to offer advice where it's not asked for. Isn't that the point of having sticky threads for newbies etc. If they want the advice, they can go look for it.
We are who and what we are, as long as we break no law, hurt, offend or abuse anyone then surely we can post our opinions in the free environment of the forum. If we are to "fit" into a category that is defined by someone other than us, then you remove our freedom to be us, and make a mockery of the term forum.
There I put in my two penneth, have loads more, but I would only be repeating what many posters have already said!
Stu of the "Fran and variety"
Quote by Wilma
It is the responsibility of the Mods to take appropriate measures to protect the site and it’s members.
And on that note, the site does aim to promote an image of safe swinging under the loose definition of 'Recreational sex between consenting adults' This is a quote from The 'Swinging and Advice' Section.
Yes, you've guessed it, we're going with definition 2. Swinging isn't simply 'Wife Swapping', nor is it quite as simple as 'Recreational sex between consenting adults' - even though we prefer the latter definition. No, it's more a state of mind. It's about being free, and expressing yourself freely. It's about enjoying sex with other people while not endangering pre-existing relationships. It's about enjoying sexually liberated fun no matter whether you're a single person or a couple or a triple or...

One of the aims of the site is to provide a resource for swingers, and to present an image in line with that statement. In addition to this are the values of respect, honesty, openess, and thoughtfulness.
So the next question is: Does the moderating on the site result in the site having the type of image described above?
lhk
Kat