Over the past few days the press and TV has been going beserk about the game Manhunt and the killing of a 14 year old by a 17 year old.
Now don't get me wrong,it was a brutal thing to do,but to suggest that a normal 17 year old would play a game and then go out and kill someone with a clawhammer is purely stupid.
The game had an 18 certificate slapped on it,contrary to some reports,and to suggest that a game that is intended for pure escapism would lead normal people to commit murder is perpostorous.
If you are going to ban violent games,then films and programmes will are more fantasy than your average horror flick,which portrays real people in the flesh as opposed to pixelated people.
I have played this game as well as many other violent games and it has never made me think of going out on rampages,but i'm normal(yeah honest gov).Some people with mental problems would view this differently,but they should'nt be playing these sort of games.
After the Columbine muders,some of the parents tried to take all the major players in the games market to court,Microsoft,Sony,Nintendo and EA among the first day of the hearing the judge threw it out.
Thats my rant over,thanks to everyone who read this.
Steve,xxx
(BTW were off to a wedding today,so any replies won't be responded to till tomoz.)
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Games and violence
I recently did an assignment at uni on this very topic. If I was that boring, I'd post the whole thing on here for you to see (I got a bloody good mark for it!) but I'm scared I'll frighten you all off.
Anyway, the top and tail of it, is that people who are influenced by such games and films must already have the inclination in them. If not, then think about this -
Watching something horrible doesn't make you horrible, watching something horrifying doesnt make you horrifying - it makes you horrified, watching beauty does'nt make you beautiful. Therefore, violence doesn't make you violent, it makes you violated against.
Now I'm off to find my assignment so I can edit this to read better!
Anyway, the top and tail of it, is that people who are influenced by such games and films must already have the inclination in them. If not, then think about this -
Watching something horrible doesn't make you horrible, watching something horrifying doesnt make you horrifying - it makes you horrified, watching beauty does'nt make you beautiful. Therefore, violence doesn't make you violent, it makes you violated against.
Now I'm off to find my assignment so I can edit this to read better!
Sex God
Most people, even teenagers, can tell the difference between fact and fantasy, right and wrong. Were this not the case, the bleeding hearts trying to ban things like war games would themselves be rampant psychopaths on account of having been brought up on Tom And Jerry. 
HOW violent is Tom & Jerry??? Every time another one squashed flat or put through a shredder or eaten by the ENORMOUS Bulldog!
What about my fav - Roadrunner? Another boulder falls, another chasm opens up, another machine eats up one or other of the characters. Didn't make me want to do any of those things as a pastime.
Happy-clappy boulderdash!
What about my fav - Roadrunner? Another boulder falls, another chasm opens up, another machine eats up one or other of the characters. Didn't make me want to do any of those things as a pastime.
Happy-clappy boulderdash!
I have to very strongly disagree with what I've read here.
Watching two ladies engaged in sexual activity makes me want to join in.
Watching a lady (or ladies) masturbate makes me want to join in.
Thinking about clareandsteve's homepage helps me sleep better.
Having a lady talk to me from 200 miles away, telling me what she wants to do and have done helps me sleep better.
Watching good, respectful and talented equestrians makes me want to emulate them.
Listening/reading bleeding heart, yoghurt knitting do-gooders makes me want to puke.
Sorry. No room for serious today.
Watching two ladies engaged in sexual activity makes me want to join in.
Watching a lady (or ladies) masturbate makes me want to join in.
Thinking about clareandsteve's homepage helps me sleep better.
Having a lady talk to me from 200 miles away, telling me what she wants to do and have done helps me sleep better.
Watching good, respectful and talented equestrians makes me want to emulate them.
Listening/reading bleeding heart, yoghurt knitting do-gooders makes me want to puke.
Sorry. No room for serious today.
Sex God
Quote by Marya
looking at Clare's avatar keeps me awake at night :shock:
funny enough marya.... yours does the same for me....
:D :D :D Sex God
Quote by Marya
looking at Clare's avatar keeps me awake at night :shock:
funny enough marya.... yours does the same for me....
:D :D :DOh, I hope you don't have nightmares!
it might be a rush of blood.. but it certainly isn't a nightmere..... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
I could never get my head around just what Andy Pandy and Looby loo and BIG TED ( bet he was too...? ), got upto in that basket?
And all I had was the poxy bat game on my telly as a youth, the tennis/football one...but it aint warped my brain?
I remember a purge on heavy metal in the 80's, when someone killed a relative because he played the record, on the wrong speed, backwards and the lyrics told him to do it. Yeah like I can just see that.. Nothing to do with the fact he was totally shitfaced with booze and those curly fags he had been smoking...
And all I had was the poxy bat game on my telly as a youth, the tennis/football one...but it aint warped my brain?
I remember a purge on heavy metal in the 80's, when someone killed a relative because he played the record, on the wrong speed, backwards and the lyrics told him to do it. Yeah like I can just see that.. Nothing to do with the fact he was totally shitfaced with booze and those curly fags he had been smoking...
Orgasminator
If you ask me, and no one did, its a load of trendy lefty bollox perpatrated by a bunch of Newspaper editors who should know better but, have come to believe what is written in their newspapers!
Sex God
It's a tricky one. I'm willing to believed that continuous exposure to violence (real or not) over a long period of time can increase our tolerance of it. A single game or film or song is not going to have any noticable effect (unless the individual is already unbalanced enough that almost anything could push them over the line). A particularly violent game won't have any direct effect, but it does create a precedent, and raises the level of the next generation of games. The long term effect could be harmful. But it's virtually impossible to know one way or the other.
I saw one report that claimed that it was a robbery gone wrong. The accused wanted money for drugs. I haven't seen drugs mentioned anywhere else, and not much is made of the robbery aspect. The press are interested in the game, and not much else.
Rockstar must be delighted. I don't think the game was selling very well. There was a little fuss made before it was released, but then silence. Now there's a huge fuss. A lot of noise being made on both sides. You couldn't buy better publicity.
I saw one report that claimed that it was a robbery gone wrong. The accused wanted money for drugs. I haven't seen drugs mentioned anywhere else, and not much is made of the robbery aspect. The press are interested in the game, and not much else.
Rockstar must be delighted. I don't think the game was selling very well. There was a little fuss made before it was released, but then silence. Now there's a huge fuss. A lot of noise being made on both sides. You couldn't buy better publicity.
What people watch must influence their behaviour to some extent otherwise companies would not pay vast sums for TV advertising (no, television silly!!)
But I do think things need to be kept in perspective, whoever did this must have had problems, and if the game didn't (or hadn't) triggered them who's to say something else wouldn't have at a later date?
That said I do personally find gratuitous violence in games or on screen offensive and unnecessary, and its got to have some effect in making violence more "accepted".
But this is never going to be a clear cut one...
But I do think things need to be kept in perspective, whoever did this must have had problems, and if the game didn't (or hadn't) triggered them who's to say something else wouldn't have at a later date?
That said I do personally find gratuitous violence in games or on screen offensive and unnecessary, and its got to have some effect in making violence more "accepted".
But this is never going to be a clear cut one...
I've been a senior manager in the games industry....the time when they started introducing 18 cert ratings on games.....and i saw a very different side to this situation!
Legally we were not able to sell 18 cert games to under 18's. However, with all the advice we gave, parents still came in to buy them for their teens........you can regulate the industry, not parents! POINT 1 over
whether these games, films, images have effect on the people that use them? Yes, they must do, that's the thrill.....however only the already deranged will act on these primal impulses.......these games are only a trigger......POINT 2 over
I f these games are only a trigger, do you sanitise society, or remove the individual/s?......thats where the problem is!........POINT 3 over
I think these individuals need help, and we need to identify them earlier, so that a simple thing like a game or film can't act as a trigger for them to carry out these horrendous acts!!!.....There endeth all my points....phew!
PS PORN AT AN EARLY AGE IS HEALTHY....LOOK AT ME......NORMAL!
Legally we were not able to sell 18 cert games to under 18's. However, with all the advice we gave, parents still came in to buy them for their teens........you can regulate the industry, not parents! POINT 1 over
whether these games, films, images have effect on the people that use them? Yes, they must do, that's the thrill.....however only the already deranged will act on these primal impulses.......these games are only a trigger......POINT 2 over
I f these games are only a trigger, do you sanitise society, or remove the individual/s?......thats where the problem is!........POINT 3 over
I think these individuals need help, and we need to identify them earlier, so that a simple thing like a game or film can't act as a trigger for them to carry out these horrendous acts!!!.....There endeth all my points....phew!
PS PORN AT AN EARLY AGE IS HEALTHY....LOOK AT ME......NORMAL!
I dont see anywhere an explanation of how the child got the game? no investigation.. for if the shop sold it to the boy then they should be prosecuted as it had an 18 Cert..
The parents of both boys must be going through hell and understandably so.. but where were the parents of the boy (with the hammer) when he was playing such a gratuitous game aimed solely at adults? did they buy him the game? if so they should be told.. did they know he was playing the game? if so then again they should be told they have some responsibility for what happened.
Im not being naive so if the boy downloaded or borrowed the game from a friend and the parents knew nothing about the types of games he was playing then my appologies and withdrawal of remarks are due.. but i find it highly unlikely, and the parents have a responsibility to know the kind of content their child is viewing on his computer.
Russ
The parents of both boys must be going through hell and understandably so.. but where were the parents of the boy (with the hammer) when he was playing such a gratuitous game aimed solely at adults? did they buy him the game? if so they should be told.. did they know he was playing the game? if so then again they should be told they have some responsibility for what happened.
Im not being naive so if the boy downloaded or borrowed the game from a friend and the parents knew nothing about the types of games he was playing then my appologies and withdrawal of remarks are due.. but i find it highly unlikely, and the parents have a responsibility to know the kind of content their child is viewing on his computer.
Russ
The kids at school are always talking about the latest game, and I am sure that this particular one has been mentioned.
Therefore the games are being passed around kids, some as young as 13. I think kids are influenced by what they see and do, and as others have pointed out, they must have some sort of 'dulling' effect.
It is common to see kids emulating the kung fu type film star, where they think they've suddenly become martial arts experts, and this sort of behaviour is also seen when they've been to see the latest war film. I've heard many a story by some teenage boy about how they would get an uzi (?) machine gun, and shoot some poor sod. Alright the reality is that given the chance, that they wouldn't be able to, but their minds are being pointed towards violence, and having their senses dulled by what they see.
I'm a great believer in kids being allowed to be kids.
Rich
Therefore the games are being passed around kids, some as young as 13. I think kids are influenced by what they see and do, and as others have pointed out, they must have some sort of 'dulling' effect.
It is common to see kids emulating the kung fu type film star, where they think they've suddenly become martial arts experts, and this sort of behaviour is also seen when they've been to see the latest war film. I've heard many a story by some teenage boy about how they would get an uzi (?) machine gun, and shoot some poor sod. Alright the reality is that given the chance, that they wouldn't be able to, but their minds are being pointed towards violence, and having their senses dulled by what they see.
I'm a great believer in kids being allowed to be kids.
Rich
Orgasminator
Quote by Bari
What people watch must influence their behaviour to some extent otherwise companies would not pay vast sums for TV advertising (no, television silly!!)
I would tend to 'argue' against that. Not matter how many times i watch those two women fight over the bumper packs of Always, that advert doesn't make me want to rush out and stack a trolly full of them!?!
But seriously, i think as many have already said, that if a person has a predisposed tendency towards a certain behaviour then the media s/he views can have an influence on them over an extended period.
However to blame just one game or one film on causing a specific action i find hard to believe.
I am caught between a rock and a hard place on this issue, against banning the game come in the arguments above. Lets face it this guy was deranged, if not for the video game he would have watched movies, if not movies fiction, if not that his own head...
There have been killers throughout history, they didn't need video games to start them. Also the killer was 17, that not a kid, he well on his way up there mentally, or should have been. A few months and he is an adult...
On the for banning this game, somewhere there has to be limit. This game is seriously violent, with very little moral code or reason for violence. Even other violent games tend to be set in some form of genre like a war, or alien attacks, very few are just about murder.
Lets face it if there was a game where you had to go down the street, pick a target, and them graphically would that be acceptable? So there are limits, this one game IMHO has either crossed them, or is damn close...
So personally I would ban, or limit this game, but not because someone killed someone else, just because there are limits. Where they are is for other more learned people to debate and society to agree on openly, not react to one tragic event...
There have been killers throughout history, they didn't need video games to start them. Also the killer was 17, that not a kid, he well on his way up there mentally, or should have been. A few months and he is an adult...
On the for banning this game, somewhere there has to be limit. This game is seriously violent, with very little moral code or reason for violence. Even other violent games tend to be set in some form of genre like a war, or alien attacks, very few are just about murder.
Lets face it if there was a game where you had to go down the street, pick a target, and them graphically would that be acceptable? So there are limits, this one game IMHO has either crossed them, or is damn close...
So personally I would ban, or limit this game, but not because someone killed someone else, just because there are limits. Where they are is for other more learned people to debate and society to agree on openly, not react to one tragic event...
Quote by tallnhairy
Even other violent games tend to be set in some form of genre like a war, or alien attacks, very few are just about murder.
What about something like Unreal Tournament, where the object is to kill other players.... and the most effective way of doing so is to shoot them in the back.
I can't help but wonder at the people who could possibly consider banning a game because it induces one individual to be violent.
If that's the case, we should ban life! Life is violent - war, crime, murder, sex offences - all these things existed well before the games console or the movie screen.
Older generations might talk about the 'youth of today' and how it wasn't like that in their day. Sorry- but bollocks! Granted, there was no car crime - but then, they didn't have cars! (ok, so I'm going quite far back now!)
Paedophiles weren't talked about but that doesn't mean there weren't any! I think most people were warned about the 'dirty old man' at the end of the street. And how many times do you hear about people coming forward and saying they were abused as children 50-odd years ago or whatever.
Rose-tinted glasses and Golden Days - it's rubbish. Just cos it wasn't talked about doesn't mean it didn't exist.
Houses were still burgled and banks were robbed. We have different crime now because we have a different society. Sure neanderthal man stole his neighbour's food - and his missus given half the chance!
Sorry, I'm ranting. My point is (yes, please get to it) ....
We shouldn't remove from society the things that incite a type of behaviour in one or two individuals. We should remove the individuals!
If that's the case, we should ban life! Life is violent - war, crime, murder, sex offences - all these things existed well before the games console or the movie screen.
Older generations might talk about the 'youth of today' and how it wasn't like that in their day. Sorry- but bollocks! Granted, there was no car crime - but then, they didn't have cars! (ok, so I'm going quite far back now!)
Paedophiles weren't talked about but that doesn't mean there weren't any! I think most people were warned about the 'dirty old man' at the end of the street. And how many times do you hear about people coming forward and saying they were abused as children 50-odd years ago or whatever.
Rose-tinted glasses and Golden Days - it's rubbish. Just cos it wasn't talked about doesn't mean it didn't exist.
Houses were still burgled and banks were robbed. We have different crime now because we have a different society. Sure neanderthal man stole his neighbour's food - and his missus given half the chance!
Sorry, I'm ranting. My point is (yes, please get to it) ....
We shouldn't remove from society the things that incite a type of behaviour in one or two individuals. We should remove the individuals!
Great post Marya!
Though I just have to add that I personally believe the media does put ideas into people's heads, that in no way negates an individual's responsibility for their actions. After all, nobody's putting a gun to someone's head and forcing them to kill people or have or whatever...
Though I just have to add that I personally believe the media does put ideas into people's heads, that in no way negates an individual's responsibility for their actions. After all, nobody's putting a gun to someone's head and forcing them to kill people or have or whatever...
It's all to do with communication as the famous Hypnotherapist Paul Mckenna has said.
Mckenna has mentioned that if people were taught how to use communication within the compulsory education system then issues such as anti - social crime would be less also the binge drinking culture that is within the U.K would'nt be the issue that it is currently.
But until the powers that be realise that communication is vital within life then crime & anti - social crime will happen due to the people that commit it not knowing how to express themselves then the rage builds up until something bad ot tragic occurs.
Lack of expression / communication skills could be the reason why within the U.K we have large amount of divorce & absenteeism from places from schools to work.
Until this issue is dealt with people will buy & get into debt, divorce & drink loads to get into fights at the weekend.
That's my view anyway.
Mckenna has mentioned that if people were taught how to use communication within the compulsory education system then issues such as anti - social crime would be less also the binge drinking culture that is within the U.K would'nt be the issue that it is currently.
But until the powers that be realise that communication is vital within life then crime & anti - social crime will happen due to the people that commit it not knowing how to express themselves then the rage builds up until something bad ot tragic occurs.
Lack of expression / communication skills could be the reason why within the U.K we have large amount of divorce & absenteeism from places from schools to work.
Until this issue is dealt with people will buy & get into debt, divorce & drink loads to get into fights at the weekend.
That's my view anyway.
I agree very much with Dragon, that communication is a key skill becoming a lost art.
And whilst I agree with Marya that life is violent it's only violent because we've become immune to it. Subjected to games, films, cartoons and real life children are desensitized to violence at an early age and whilst one particular game is unlikely to incite a child (or adult) to react, combined with everything else then it may act as a trigger.
Today's children live in a far more competitive, stressful world than 50 years ago and the strains of modern life just aren't recognised at an early enough age .... lets face it, parents aren't in touch with their offspring, teachers are often tied up in red tape and beaurecracy, social workers are overworked and criticised. Who will recognise these problems?
Our children are banned many things that other parent see as acceptable. They are limited as to what TV programmes they are allowed to watch, educational being top of the tree and even simple cartoons like Tom & Jerry are restricted (have you looked into how violent this is!) We don't allow them on the pc, they don't have computer games, we're aware of what sort of music they listen too. Japanese cartoons like Pokemon, Digimon etc are banned ... I once went onto the Pokemon website clicked a link and was transported to a Manga/Hentai Porn site!!!!! The same design studio produces children's cartoons and adult porn! And whilst I'm not a prude I don't want my children discovering it until they are past the age of consent!
One exposure is unlikely to incite a child to violence, but many exposures from an early age isn't healthy.
And whilst I agree with Marya that life is violent it's only violent because we've become immune to it. Subjected to games, films, cartoons and real life children are desensitized to violence at an early age and whilst one particular game is unlikely to incite a child (or adult) to react, combined with everything else then it may act as a trigger.
Today's children live in a far more competitive, stressful world than 50 years ago and the strains of modern life just aren't recognised at an early enough age .... lets face it, parents aren't in touch with their offspring, teachers are often tied up in red tape and beaurecracy, social workers are overworked and criticised. Who will recognise these problems?
Our children are banned many things that other parent see as acceptable. They are limited as to what TV programmes they are allowed to watch, educational being top of the tree and even simple cartoons like Tom & Jerry are restricted (have you looked into how violent this is!) We don't allow them on the pc, they don't have computer games, we're aware of what sort of music they listen too. Japanese cartoons like Pokemon, Digimon etc are banned ... I once went onto the Pokemon website clicked a link and was transported to a Manga/Hentai Porn site!!!!! The same design studio produces children's cartoons and adult porn! And whilst I'm not a prude I don't want my children discovering it until they are past the age of consent!
One exposure is unlikely to incite a child to violence, but many exposures from an early age isn't healthy.
I think Marya has made some good points and I would like to read her assignment in full as, having completed a media degree, I too ranted on about the subject in at least one essay.
If these games were cutting edge, "wow, games that are full of blood and guts" then maybe (just maybe) that could be seen as influencial. But they are in fact imitating the world as it is, where people do go around streets and cause other people harm and most people look the other way. Don't blame the PC game or the films for violence, they are just reflecting how people are now-a-days.
I disagree with Mayra that we didn't have "golden days" when you could "keep your house unlocked", I think we did. I am just 31, but in my life I have seen a worrying trend in people not giving a toss about their fellow man (or woman). How this came about, who knows, but it's how things are now and that is why its acceptable to fill the shelves with bloodthirsty games and gory films. It wouldn't surprise me if we actually went back to Gladiators, starting with a bit of violence and soon ending up with people dying on TV, televised executions, "documentaries" on abuse to children and animals would be old hat by then of course. Life is surprisingly cheap nowadays, lead stories in papers are about Beckham having a fling, whilst on page seven hundreds die in earthquakes somewhere. The war in Iraq seemed so bad, as did 9-11, but does it invoke such feeling now? I don't think it does, unless your directly involved, its just yesterdays news sad to say.
Phew! So I guess I'm saying the worlds crap, except for the bit you exercise your influence over. So do your best, but don't worry because in a decades time this will all have been a mildy violent time.
NOTE
I have now thought of another reason why I'd like to see Marya's essay and it has something to do with the redness of her ass in that Avatar. Guilty, even I have been corrupted.
If these games were cutting edge, "wow, games that are full of blood and guts" then maybe (just maybe) that could be seen as influencial. But they are in fact imitating the world as it is, where people do go around streets and cause other people harm and most people look the other way. Don't blame the PC game or the films for violence, they are just reflecting how people are now-a-days.
I disagree with Mayra that we didn't have "golden days" when you could "keep your house unlocked", I think we did. I am just 31, but in my life I have seen a worrying trend in people not giving a toss about their fellow man (or woman). How this came about, who knows, but it's how things are now and that is why its acceptable to fill the shelves with bloodthirsty games and gory films. It wouldn't surprise me if we actually went back to Gladiators, starting with a bit of violence and soon ending up with people dying on TV, televised executions, "documentaries" on abuse to children and animals would be old hat by then of course. Life is surprisingly cheap nowadays, lead stories in papers are about Beckham having a fling, whilst on page seven hundreds die in earthquakes somewhere. The war in Iraq seemed so bad, as did 9-11, but does it invoke such feeling now? I don't think it does, unless your directly involved, its just yesterdays news sad to say.
Phew! So I guess I'm saying the worlds crap, except for the bit you exercise your influence over. So do your best, but don't worry because in a decades time this will all have been a mildy violent time.
NOTE
I have now thought of another reason why I'd like to see Marya's essay and it has something to do with the redness of her ass in that Avatar. Guilty, even I have been corrupted.
Forum Virgin
I think the proposal for banning violent video games all comes down to the old "games are for kids" factor. In this thread alone there are several references to this misunderstanding, phrases such as "letting kids being kids" is irrelevant to the notion of banning games that are clearly marked as unsuitable for persons under 18 years of age.
I believe violent media is capable of de-sensitising children to real world violence; however I don't believe in introducing censorship and government legislation to replace parental responsibility.
I've played Manhunt (the game in question), enjoyed it and so far haven't had any impulses to commit acts of violence. Why should I and millions of others be denied this because of a retailer illegally selling age-restricted games to a minor or because of parents failing to monitor their kids' behavior and video game content?
I believe violent media is capable of de-sensitising children to real world violence; however I don't believe in introducing censorship and government legislation to replace parental responsibility.
I've played Manhunt (the game in question), enjoyed it and so far haven't had any impulses to commit acts of violence. Why should I and millions of others be denied this because of a retailer illegally selling age-restricted games to a minor or because of parents failing to monitor their kids' behavior and video game content?
TOO TRUE MATE...
And if the truth be known anyhow I bet the bottom dolar the gamestation in question is not only chipped to accept pirate copies BUT the game itself is a car booter or from a loaner copied on computer. Guidelines only exist in shops, and copies from others are not effected because most of the money is a quick buck to line someone elses pocket....
And if the truth be known anyhow I bet the bottom dolar the gamestation in question is not only chipped to accept pirate copies BUT the game itself is a car booter or from a loaner copied on computer. Guidelines only exist in shops, and copies from others are not effected because most of the money is a quick buck to line someone elses pocket....
