Quote by buckingfabe
My view? Bring back capital punishment :twisted:
Would that be Capital Punishment?
Sorry couldn't help myself, that phrase has always tickled me.
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Is sending 16 year old to prison the answer?
Quote by buckingfabe
Maybe we should also sort out in this country what defines a "child" and an "adult". It is legal to have sex, get married and have children at 16 and yet 18 seems to be the generally held conception of coming of age. So those who choose to become parents at 16 can't legally drive a car, buy an alcoholic drink in a pub or vote. At 16 they can legally gamble (buy lottery tickets) and smoke. They can also be killed serving their country in the armed forces.
So are 16 year olds adults or children still? If they are children then they should be punished as children. Or maybe we could have a teen punishment system,like borstal or youth offenders but not as they exist at the moment. Then again some people will say that if they commit adult crimes then they should accept adult punishments.
My view? Bring back capital punishment :twisted:
Sorry but you have to now be 18 to but fags.
Secondly you can join the army at 16 but you cannot fight for your country until you are 18. We should know as mrs777's son has just joined and he is still 16.
I feel that up until 16 it should be the parents responsibility to look after their kid. After 16 they are then responsible for their own actions, and all that entails.
Quote by kentswingers777
Maybe we should also sort out in this country what defines a "child" and an "adult". It is legal to have sex, get married and have children at 16 and yet 18 seems to be the generally held conception of coming of age. So those who choose to become parents at 16 can't legally drive a car, buy an alcoholic drink in a pub or vote. At 16 they can legally gamble (buy lottery tickets) and smoke. They can also be killed serving their country in the armed forces.
So are 16 year olds adults or children still? If they are children then they should be punished as children. Or maybe we could have a teen punishment system,like borstal or youth offenders but not as they exist at the moment. Then again some people will say that if they commit adult crimes then they should accept adult punishments.
My view? Bring back capital punishment :twisted:
Sorry but you have to now be 18 to but fags.
Secondly you can join the army at 16 but you cannot fight for your country until you are 18. We should know as mrs777's son has just joined and he is still 16.
I feel that up until 16 it should be the parents responsibility to look after their kid. After 16 they are then responsible for their own actions, and all that entails.
I was going to say that bit about the fags! lol...
I used to work in law. I used to produce summonses for parents of under 17 yr olds (after 17 in law they're classed as adults). The parents in the eyes of the law were seen as the ones responsible if the kids committed a crime. It was horrible, believe me it's horrific to see decent loving parents hauled up before the court, quite often never been there in their lives!, all because their kid(s) quite often had got in with the wrong crowd.
My perception? prison? it depends on the track record and I'm sorry but if they're devious and wise enough to 'continually' commit the crime they should be punished to fit the crime. The punishment should fit the person not the age group.
Quote by jaymar
Maybe we should also sort out in this country what defines a "child" and an "adult". It is legal to have sex, get married and have children at 16 and yet 18 seems to be the generally held conception of coming of age. So those who choose to become parents at 16 can't legally drive a car, buy an alcoholic drink in a pub or vote. At 16 they can legally gamble (buy lottery tickets) and smoke. They can also be killed serving their country in the armed forces.
So are 16 year olds adults or children still? If they are children then they should be punished as children. Or maybe we could have a teen punishment system,like borstal or youth offenders but not as they exist at the moment. Then again some people will say that if they commit adult crimes then they should accept adult punishments.
My view? Bring back capital punishment :twisted:
Sorry but you have to now be 18 to but fags.
Secondly you can join the army at 16 but you cannot fight for your country until you are 18. We should know as mrs777's son has just joined and he is still 16.
I feel that up until 16 it should be the parents responsibility to look after their kid. After 16 they are then responsible for their own actions, and all that entails.
I was going to say that bit about the fags! lol...
I used to work in law. I used to produce summonses for parents of under 17 yr olds (after 17 in law they're classed as adults). The parents in the eyes of the law were seen as the ones responsible if the kids committed a crime. It was horrible, believe me it's horrific to see decent loving parents hauled up before the court, quite often never been there in their lives!, all because their kid(s) quite often had got in with the wrong crowd.
My perception? prison? it depends on the track record and I'm sorry but if they're devious and wise enough to 'continually' commit the crime they should be punished to fit the crime. The punishment should fit the person not the age group.
Your not as liberal as I thought you was Mar.
Quote by kentswingers777
Maybe we should also sort out in this country what defines a "child" and an "adult". It is legal to have sex, get married and have children at 16 and yet 18 seems to be the generally held conception of coming of age. So those who choose to become parents at 16 can't legally drive a car, buy an alcoholic drink in a pub or vote. At 16 they can legally gamble (buy lottery tickets) and smoke. They can also be killed serving their country in the armed forces.
So are 16 year olds adults or children still? If they are children then they should be punished as children. Or maybe we could have a teen punishment system,like borstal or youth offenders but not as they exist at the moment. Then again some people will say that if they commit adult crimes then they should accept adult punishments.
My view? Bring back capital punishment :twisted:
Sorry but you have to now be 18 to but fags.
Secondly you can join the army at 16 but you cannot fight for your country until you are 18. We should know as mrs777's son has just joined and he is still 16.
I feel that up until 16 it should be the parents responsibility to look after their kid. After 16 they are then responsible for their own actions, and all that entails.
I was going to say that bit about the fags! lol...
I used to work in law. I used to produce summonses for parents of under 17 yr olds (after 17 in law they're classed as adults). The parents in the eyes of the law were seen as the ones responsible if the kids committed a crime. It was horrible, believe me it's horrific to see decent loving parents hauled up before the court, quite often never been there in their lives!, all because their kid(s) quite often had got in with the wrong crowd.
My perception? prison? it depends on the track record and I'm sorry but if they're devious and wise enough to 'continually' commit the crime they should be punished to fit the crime. The punishment should fit the person not the age group.
Your not as liberal as I thought you was Mar.
Ooooh I am in a lot of aspects.... maybe I'm a 'swinging' libertanian?
Or maybe I'm getting less tolerant as I'm getting older?? :dry:
Either way...
that was a great idea! 
Quote by Freckledbird
He was punished for committing a crime. At 16, regardless of how 'angry at life' he was, he knew what was right and what was wrong. So yes, sending him to prison was the right thing to do. He let himself down, it was nothing to do with society.
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Quote by __random_orbit__
Sorry but you have to now be 18 to but fags.
Isn't that an arrestable offence in itsself?
lp
oooh you are a card! .... don't you ever laugh so much you run the risk of ripping those sexy pants?? 
I'm a dour chap... laughter is anathema.
(but I have an inhaler)
lp
so do you puff or blow?
dour? now there's a word I haven't heard in a while
Quote by __random_orbit__
so do you puff or blow?
dour? now there's a word I haven't heard in a while
you're laughing at me aren't you?
in my condition too...
told I hate this place.
lp
noooooooo I'm larfing with you!
(and you're condition looking at those pants is mighty fine thank you very much
)...OK OP hijack over, soweeee xx
i havnt read all the replies to this post but is it a subject always raises issues with me.
My husband was attacked by a gang of teenagers a few years back, simple because we told them to stop using the stair ways in our flats as somewhere to come and meet their mates and smoke dope and drink, we used to have to put up with this most nights, anyway one nightwe told them to clear off as usual and the kids decided to have a go back, most just verbally and throwing things but one lad who thought he was big and cleaver with his mates went to hit my husband over the back of the head with a bottle, as i shouted him he turned round and naturally lifted his arm to protect his head and ended up having his elbo very badly smashed, after the x ray the consultant said the bone was so badly shattered they wanted to amputate it from just above the elbo, luckly the surgeon he had said due to my husbands age he wanted to try and save the arm, it took four operations which included having the bones pinned together a metal plate and a bone graft taken from his hip to save his arm and even now he only has about 60% use/movement in his arm and hand, the lad who did it dropped his collage id card as he ran off and he was already well known to the police they knew him as soon as they saw his id card, he was only 17 and already had a criminal record that included, GBH, ABH, armed robbery (he mugged a old guy at knife point) to name a few, yet had never had a custodial sentence before, after it went to court with my husband he served 18 months, do i think he should have gone to prison? yes i do if he old enough to do the crime hes old enough to serve the time, maybe if he had been locked up when he was younger after attacking someone or mugging some innocent old guy then my husband would have a fully working arm now!!
My husband was attacked by a gang of teenagers a few years back, simple because we told them to stop using the stair ways in our flats as somewhere to come and meet their mates and smoke dope and drink, we used to have to put up with this most nights, anyway one nightwe told them to clear off as usual and the kids decided to have a go back, most just verbally and throwing things but one lad who thought he was big and cleaver with his mates went to hit my husband over the back of the head with a bottle, as i shouted him he turned round and naturally lifted his arm to protect his head and ended up having his elbo very badly smashed, after the x ray the consultant said the bone was so badly shattered they wanted to amputate it from just above the elbo, luckly the surgeon he had said due to my husbands age he wanted to try and save the arm, it took four operations which included having the bones pinned together a metal plate and a bone graft taken from his hip to save his arm and even now he only has about 60% use/movement in his arm and hand, the lad who did it dropped his collage id card as he ran off and he was already well known to the police they knew him as soon as they saw his id card, he was only 17 and already had a criminal record that included, GBH, ABH, armed robbery (he mugged a old guy at knife point) to name a few, yet had never had a custodial sentence before, after it went to court with my husband he served 18 months, do i think he should have gone to prison? yes i do if he old enough to do the crime hes old enough to serve the time, maybe if he had been locked up when he was younger after attacking someone or mugging some innocent old guy then my husband would have a fully working arm now!!
Sex God
Quote by naughtynymphos1
maybe if he had been locked up when he was younger after attacking someone or mugging some innocent old guy then my husband would have a fully working arm now!!
I'm still not sure either way as i know a few people who i've worked in prisons and YOI's in one way or another and there does seem to be a lot of lying round all day, smoking and doing bugger all or maybe playing pool or pissing about on the Playstations and Plasmas us nice tax payers have provided for them.
Then they moan about it being overcrowded, so i was thinking....
You know all those army barracks that have been shut down, fully equipped to house a few hundred bodies, that come complete with nice parade grounds and assult courses and floors that have been polished to a mirror like surface by decades of passing sqaddies, those places with no playstations and pool tables but lots of open spaces where some of our nice and friendly ex servicemen could be employed to relive their past by making the over cocky and clever kids run/jump/march for several hours a day until they're so tired they can't wait to crawl into bed and just sleep......;););)
Sex God
any 1 ever watch bad lads army???
well u thought it was fab apart from the fact they could walk away if they didn't like it
so i say bring back national service for all the young offenders would work a treat
both our lads r an the army cadets and it has been the making of um always polite n willing to help others of thier own volition if cadets can do that for good kids just imagine what a turn around it could create in the bad kids
well u thought it was fab apart from the fact they could walk away if they didn't like it
so i say bring back national service for all the young offenders would work a treat
both our lads r an the army cadets and it has been the making of um always polite n willing to help others of thier own volition if cadets can do that for good kids just imagine what a turn around it could create in the bad kids
Quote by meat2pleaseu
maybe if he had been locked up when he was younger after attacking someone or mugging some innocent old guy then my husband would have a fully working arm now!!
I'm still not sure either way as i know a few people who i've worked in prisons and YOI's in one way or another and there does seem to be a lot of lying round all day, smoking and doing bugger all or maybe playing pool or pissing about on the Playstations and Plasmas us nice tax payers have provided for them.
Then they moan about it being overcrowded, so i was thinking....
You know all those army barracks that have been shut down, fully equipped to house a few hundred bodies, that come complete with nice parade grounds and assult courses and floors that have been polished to a mirror like surface by decades of passing sqaddies, those places with no playstations and pool tables but lots of open spaces where some of our nice and friendly ex servicemen could be employed to relive their past by making the over cocky and clever kids run/jump/march for several hours a day until they're so tired they can't wait to crawl into bed and just sleep......;););)
actually i was more thinking if he had been banged up for earlier offenses he wouldnt have been walking the streets to attack my husband :shock:
Sex God
Quote by naughtynymphos1
maybe if he had been locked up when he was younger after attacking someone or mugging some innocent old guy then my husband would have a fully working arm now!!
I'm still not sure either way as i know a few people who i've worked in prisons and YOI's in one way or another and there does seem to be a lot of lying round all day, smoking and doing bugger all or maybe playing pool or pissing about on the Playstations and Plasmas us nice tax payers have provided for them.
Then they moan about it being overcrowded, so i was thinking....
You know all those army barracks that have been shut down, fully equipped to house a few hundred bodies, that come complete with nice parade grounds and assult courses and floors that have been polished to a mirror like surface by decades of passing sqaddies, those places with no playstations and pool tables but lots of open spaces where some of our nice and friendly ex servicemen could be employed to relive their past by making the over cocky and clever kids run/jump/march for several hours a day until they're so tired they can't wait to crawl into bed and just sleep......;););)
actually i was more thinking if he had been banged up for earlier offenses he wouldnt have been walking the streets to attack my husband :shock:
very true my sweet i say beat the little feckers
I have read all the replies to this thread and for some I agree should be locked up and punished. I don’t see prison with harden criminals as the place to go about doing this with teenagers, as I feel some that go in somewhat naïve do and can come out armed with more knowledge and understanding as to move their crimes up a notch.
I do feel that a boot camp system could work in some cases.
I know of a lad that was sent to prison for a petty crime, he got in with the wrong crowd. His mum abandoned him at the age of 14 she is a drug addict he practically had to fend for himself his story is a sad one.
There are a lot of kids like this one about. Sometimes children are not shown the right way by the people that should be there for them their parents, he was angry with society, asking him now he would say it was his mother he realises he was angry at, but could never bring himself to tell her how much he felt she had let him down.
I am not saying all 16 year olds shouldn’t go to prison but there are some that only if someone could take time to get to know them are not bad kids, he has now got the label of trouble which is such a shame I feel. AS he isn't a bad lad.
I do feel that a boot camp system could work in some cases.
I know of a lad that was sent to prison for a petty crime, he got in with the wrong crowd. His mum abandoned him at the age of 14 she is a drug addict he practically had to fend for himself his story is a sad one.
There are a lot of kids like this one about. Sometimes children are not shown the right way by the people that should be there for them their parents, he was angry with society, asking him now he would say it was his mother he realises he was angry at, but could never bring himself to tell her how much he felt she had let him down.
I am not saying all 16 year olds shouldn’t go to prison but there are some that only if someone could take time to get to know them are not bad kids, he has now got the label of trouble which is such a shame I feel. AS he isn't a bad lad.
Quote by Theladyisaminx
I have read all the replies to this thread and for some I agree should be locked up and punished. I don’t see prison with harden criminals as the place to go about doing this with teenagers, as I feel some that go in somewhat naïve do and can come out armed with more knowledge and understanding as to move their crimes up a notch.
I do feel that a boot camp system could work in some cases.
I know of a lad that was sent to prison for a petty crime, he got in with the wrong crowd. His mum abandoned him at the age of 14 she is a drug addict he practically had to fend for himself his story is a sad one.
There are a lot of kids like this one about. Sometimes children are not shown the right way by the people that should be there for them their parents, he was angry with society, asking him now he would say it was his mother he realises he was angry at, but could never bring himself to tell her how much he felt she had let him down.
I am not saying all 16 year olds shouldn’t go to prison but there are some that only if someone could take time to get to know them are not bad kids, he has now got the label of trouble which is such a shame I feel. AS he isn't a bad lad.
Am quite sure the people he did the crime against would agree with you minx. :shock:
Sex God
Quote by kentswingers777
I have read all the replies to this thread and for some I agree should be locked up and punished. I don’t see prison with harden criminals as the place to go about doing this with teenagers, as I feel some that go in somewhat naïve do and can come out armed with more knowledge and understanding as to move their crimes up a notch.
I do feel that a boot camp system could work in some cases.
I know of a lad that was sent to prison for a petty crime, he got in with the wrong crowd. His mum abandoned him at the age of 14 she is a drug addict he practically had to fend for himself his story is a sad one.
There are a lot of kids like this one about. Sometimes children are not shown the right way by the people that should be there for them their parents, he was angry with society, asking him now he would say it was his mother he realises he was angry at, but could never bring himself to tell her how much he felt she had let him down.
I am not saying all 16 year olds shouldn’t go to prison but there are some that only if someone could take time to get to know them are not bad kids, he has now got the label of trouble which is such a shame I feel. AS he isn't a bad lad.
Am quite sure the people he did the crime against would agree with you minx. :shock:
As victims they are going to feel differently of course. I think what Minx says is valid. Of course there are times when maybe incarcerating someone might be necessary. I believe though that this does not give the perpetrators of crime enough reason to stop doing so and in itself just makes them feel victimised not chastised.
Quote by Lost
I have read all the replies to this thread and for some I agree should be locked up and punished. I don’t see prison with harden criminals as the place to go about doing this with teenagers, as I feel some that go in somewhat naïve do and can come out armed with more knowledge and understanding as to move their crimes up a notch.
I do feel that a boot camp system could work in some cases.
I know of a lad that was sent to prison for a petty crime, he got in with the wrong crowd. His mum abandoned him at the age of 14 she is a drug addict he practically had to fend for himself his story is a sad one.
There are a lot of kids like this one about. Sometimes children are not shown the right way by the people that should be there for them their parents, he was angry with society, asking him now he would say it was his mother he realises he was angry at, but could never bring himself to tell her how much he felt she had let him down.
I am not saying all 16 year olds shouldn’t go to prison but there are some that only if someone could take time to get to know them are not bad kids, he has now got the label of trouble which is such a shame I feel. AS he isn't a bad lad.
Am quite sure the people he did the crime against would agree with you minx. :shock:
As victims they are going to feel differently of course. I think what Minx says is valid. Of course there are times when maybe incarcerating someone might be necessary. I believe though that this does not give the perpetrators of crime enough reason to stop doing so and in itself just makes them feel victimised not chastised.
In that case incarcerate them somewhere more appropriate, for example someone posted earlier in the thread about the bad boys camp. That sounds absolutely perfect to me. Drilling all day instead of playing the latest playstation game on a plasma screen (probably whilst their victim is arguing with their insurance company, if indeed they are insured).
The equivalent of national service would be the mutts nuts for sorting the little bastards out.
I should point out that last year I was the victim of a burglar and got a broken leg and a head first trip down the stairs passing through a glass door before landing. As such my sympathies do not lie with the little scrotes who perpetrate these crimes.
National service eh?
Anyone think it would work when taken together with the amount of 'rights' young adults have nowadays?
To instill discipline and responsibility, you first have to remove whatever counter productive behaviours are there, how is anyone going to do that when you can't shout harshly, beasting is watered down and the forces are being PC'd (and that's used as a cover all for namby pamby-ing)constantly?
Besides which the difference between our forces and a lot of other less 'capable' ones is our troops are professionals, not conscripted, do we really wish to be watering that down with conscripts who show no respect, no morals and no work ethic?
Things like bad lads army look like they work don't they? Never forget two things, it's edited and it's voluntary, as someone has already pointed out, they can (and do) walk away at any time.
If you want a decent and just society, it's pretty simple, make everyone over the age of 16 responsible for their own actions, not just criminal actions but every action.....under 16's but over the age of criminal responsibility, make the parents accountable, your child commits any offence, you serve the sentence, that should focus a few minds on parenting rather than other things that seem more important but really are not.
At the same time the population as a whole needs empowering, how many of these problems and those who cause them could be stopped at source if people knew they had the backing to challenge the people doing them? I'm not advocating vigilante groups before anyone jumps in, merely the community as a whole challenging them at every turn, gives people a sense of value in the places they live, things might change, til then? We're all doomed.
Anyone think it would work when taken together with the amount of 'rights' young adults have nowadays?
To instill discipline and responsibility, you first have to remove whatever counter productive behaviours are there, how is anyone going to do that when you can't shout harshly, beasting is watered down and the forces are being PC'd (and that's used as a cover all for namby pamby-ing)constantly?
Besides which the difference between our forces and a lot of other less 'capable' ones is our troops are professionals, not conscripted, do we really wish to be watering that down with conscripts who show no respect, no morals and no work ethic?
Things like bad lads army look like they work don't they? Never forget two things, it's edited and it's voluntary, as someone has already pointed out, they can (and do) walk away at any time.
If you want a decent and just society, it's pretty simple, make everyone over the age of 16 responsible for their own actions, not just criminal actions but every action.....under 16's but over the age of criminal responsibility, make the parents accountable, your child commits any offence, you serve the sentence, that should focus a few minds on parenting rather than other things that seem more important but really are not.
At the same time the population as a whole needs empowering, how many of these problems and those who cause them could be stopped at source if people knew they had the backing to challenge the people doing them? I'm not advocating vigilante groups before anyone jumps in, merely the community as a whole challenging them at every turn, gives people a sense of value in the places they live, things might change, til then? We're all doomed.
National service eh?
Could work for some but not for all I agree
Anyone think it would work when taken together with the amount of 'rights' young adults have nowadays.
Certain rights should be taken away at the time of being found guilty of inflicting crime against another
To instill discipline and responsibility, you first have to remove whatever counter productive behaviours are there, how is anyone going to do that when you can't shout harshly, beasting is watered down and the forces are being PC'd (and that's used as a cover all for namby pamby-ing)constantly?
The forces have served us well over the years I can not understand why it has to be changed.
But to instill discipline in children it has to come from the parents. I done a thread way back about smacking children, I was shocked at how many thought it should be made law not to smack your own child. I was never talking about a beating but a smack being used as a form of punishment for bad behaviour. As parents all we are trying to do is keep our children within the boundaries set.
Without boundaries children will think they can do exactly what they like without and Consequence.
Besides which the difference between our forces and a lot of other less 'capable' ones is our troops are professionals, not conscripted, do we really wish to be watering that down with conscripts who show no respect, no morals and no work ethic?
I agree with the first part of your thread.
I think national service could help some of the youths to find self worth, I agree it is not a place to send all.
Things like bad lads army look like they work don't they? Never forget two things, it's edited and it's voluntary, as someone has already pointed out, they can (and do) walk away at any time.
This was just another fly on wall programme.
If you want a decent and just society, it's pretty simple, make everyone over the age of 16 responsible for their own actions, not just criminal actions but every action.....under 16's but over the age of criminal responsibility, make the parents accountable, your child commits any offence, you serve the sentence, that should focus a few minds on parenting rather than other things that seem more important but really are not.
I agree with most of what you say I would just like to ask are all 16 year olds mature enough to be responisble for their own actions, I put that down to unbringing to, so I agree but I think there are also some that act and think younger than my youngest children that are 11 it is a different society that we live in today. Far different to when I was a child where the local bobby could clip you around the ear. Bring those times back is what I say! The children that thought they were tough in my day still showed fear when a policeman turned the corner. We all had more respect then.
At the same time the population as a whole needs empowering, how many of these problems and those who cause them could be stopped at source if people knew they had the backing to challenge the people doing them? I'm not advocating vigilante groups before anyone jumps in, merely the community as a whole challenging them at every turn, gives people a sense of value in the places they live, things might change, til then? We're all doomed
:thumbup: I totally agree with you.
Well said
Could work for some but not for all I agree
Anyone think it would work when taken together with the amount of 'rights' young adults have nowadays.
Certain rights should be taken away at the time of being found guilty of inflicting crime against another
To instill discipline and responsibility, you first have to remove whatever counter productive behaviours are there, how is anyone going to do that when you can't shout harshly, beasting is watered down and the forces are being PC'd (and that's used as a cover all for namby pamby-ing)constantly?
The forces have served us well over the years I can not understand why it has to be changed.
But to instill discipline in children it has to come from the parents. I done a thread way back about smacking children, I was shocked at how many thought it should be made law not to smack your own child. I was never talking about a beating but a smack being used as a form of punishment for bad behaviour. As parents all we are trying to do is keep our children within the boundaries set.
Without boundaries children will think they can do exactly what they like without and Consequence.
Besides which the difference between our forces and a lot of other less 'capable' ones is our troops are professionals, not conscripted, do we really wish to be watering that down with conscripts who show no respect, no morals and no work ethic?
I agree with the first part of your thread.
I think national service could help some of the youths to find self worth, I agree it is not a place to send all.
Things like bad lads army look like they work don't they? Never forget two things, it's edited and it's voluntary, as someone has already pointed out, they can (and do) walk away at any time.
This was just another fly on wall programme.
If you want a decent and just society, it's pretty simple, make everyone over the age of 16 responsible for their own actions, not just criminal actions but every action.....under 16's but over the age of criminal responsibility, make the parents accountable, your child commits any offence, you serve the sentence, that should focus a few minds on parenting rather than other things that seem more important but really are not.
I agree with most of what you say I would just like to ask are all 16 year olds mature enough to be responisble for their own actions, I put that down to unbringing to, so I agree but I think there are also some that act and think younger than my youngest children that are 11 it is a different society that we live in today. Far different to when I was a child where the local bobby could clip you around the ear. Bring those times back is what I say! The children that thought they were tough in my day still showed fear when a policeman turned the corner. We all had more respect then.
At the same time the population as a whole needs empowering, how many of these problems and those who cause them could be stopped at source if people knew they had the backing to challenge the people doing them? I'm not advocating vigilante groups before anyone jumps in, merely the community as a whole challenging them at every turn, gives people a sense of value in the places they live, things might change, til then? We're all doomed
:thumbup: I totally agree with you.
Well said
Quote by staffcple
National service eh?
Anyone think it would work when taken together with the amount of 'rights' young adults have nowadays?
To instill discipline and responsibility, you first have to remove whatever counter productive behaviours are there, how is anyone going to do that when you can't shout harshly, beasting is watered down and the forces are being PC'd (and that's used as a cover all for namby pamby-ing)constantly?
Besides which the difference between our forces and a lot of other less 'capable' ones is our troops are professionals, not conscripted, do we really wish to be watering that down with conscripts who show no respect, no morals and no work ethic?
Things like bad lads army look like they work don't they? Never forget two things, it's edited and it's voluntary, as someone has already pointed out, they can (and do) walk away at any time.
If you want a decent and just society, it's pretty simple, make everyone over the age of 16 responsible for their own actions, not just criminal actions but every action.....under 16's but over the age of criminal responsibility, make the parents accountable, your child commits any offence, you serve the sentence, that should focus a few minds on parenting rather than other things that seem more important but really are not.
At the same time the population as a whole needs empowering, how many of these problems and those who cause them could be stopped at source if people knew they had the backing to challenge the people doing them? I'm not advocating vigilante groups before anyone jumps in, merely the community as a whole challenging them at every turn, gives people a sense of value in the places they live, things might change, til then? We're all doomed.
The bit highlighted in blue I have been saying that for years. If that was brought in, which we know it will not, but if it was, you will see how many parents would bring their kids into line. The thought of the parent or parents having to pay for their kids actions would bring an end to most kids crime.
When it would actually cost the parent money then and only then would the parent take some sort of responsibility. Can you imagine this namby pamby Government actually doing this? Not in a million years. So we will just have to get used to the ferel thugs and little urchins that roam our streets, and cause havoc and fear to many.
I do not go with the " some 16 year old are too immature " rubbish. They are certainly mature enough to know the difference between right and wrong though!! They are quick enough to spout their rights at you.
National service whilst great in principle would not work for todays kids, with the PC brigade around. The answer is simple.... harsh penalties as the softly softly approach stinks, and is just not working at all. Bring in some magistrates that can actually dish out some sentences that mean something, not a poxy asbo that means nothing. What ever happened to the crap saying " tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime" ?. Thrown out with the rubbish I feel. Lets hope the Tories carry out their ideas not if but when they come to power. :fuckinghell:
Quote by Peanut
Have to make you right there Peanut, politics in this country now is not the polar opposite of red and blue anymore, just two very close shades of purple, like it or not the sole aim it appears is to support the status quo.
Imho what is needed is a complete overhaul, a period of a government of national responsibility, focused on saving this country and it's people from themselves, rather than 'statesmanship' for the benefit of the international community.
To solve the problems endemic in society today is not just a case of looking at what we do when someone breaks the law, although this is a big part, we also need to look at why?
When did criminality become a useful career choice? When did it become acceptable? When did prison become an 'occupational hazard'? When did we allow people to stop taking responsibility for their children and their actions? When did the ideal of community spirit die?
We need imho to re-think some aspects of law, basically bringing a mix of rights but adding a large dose of responsibilites with it, this to me is the biggest problem we face, almost everyone knows their rights but no one wants to know the responsibilities that should go hand in hand. I'd agree that a form of national service would go a long way to giving self worth and aims in life to people which does breed respect. I wouldn't go along the military route for anyone but a very small percentage, but there are other areas in which a scheme could be of benefit such as community work and the like.
Will it ever happen? I doubt it, the whole idea of giving up power I would imagine would take an awful lot of bravery, standing on a 'responsibility' ticket now would be difficult to say the least due in many cases to the social engineering that has been our history for the last 20 years.
Quote by staffcple
If you want a decent and just society, it's pretty simple, make everyone over the age of 16 responsible for their own actions, not just criminal actions but every action.....under 16's but over the age of criminal responsibility, make the parents accountable, your child commits any offence, you serve the sentence, that should focus a few minds on parenting rather than other things that seem more important but really are not.
But isn't that what is more or less already happening?? In the court of law a child under the age of 17 yrs is sentenced with the parent present. There are now laws for parents to be summonsed to court for just that. After the age of 17 they are sentenced as adults but with an age range of 17-21 it isn't prison, it's remand centres/young offender institutions, still punishment.
I can't go along with the 100% complete blame the parents bit and if any parent in this thread can stand up and say any different then please go ahead. Sometimes you know it's not ALWAYS the parents fault.
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