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It's time to speak up against 9/11 paranoia

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Just came across this:
"On Tuesday September 11, 2001, at least 35,615 of our brothers and sisters died from the worst possible death, starvation.
Somewhere around 85% of these starvation deaths occur in children 5 years of age or younger.
Why are we letting at least 30,273 of the most beautiful children die the worst possible death every day?
Every seconds another one of our fellow brothers and sisters dies of starvation.
Starvation doesn't just happen on Tuesday September 11, 2001, it happens everyday, 365 days per year, 24 hours per day, it never stops."
(Source: . Not sure about the "illumanti" references though tbh).
Best argument I've yet come across that sums up why I've always
felt that it's wrong to react to "9/11" in the way that many people -
especially many of our American friends - do. Fortunately it seems
that people who think the same about this as me are starting to come
out of the woodwork, which is good: for the last few years it's
clearly been politically incorrect to talk about the Twin Towers
disaster in terms other than holy reverence.
Yes, it was tragic. But it's time to move on. We need to stop allowing
those who govern us use "9/11" and phantom menaces to control us,
to remove our civil liberties.
Quote by Albert Einstein
The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.

Quote by Hierocles
We ought always to deal justly, not only with those who are just to us, but likewise to those who endeavor to injure us; and this, for fear lest by rendering them evil for evil, we should fall into the same vice.

Quote by Helen Keller
Science may have found a cure for most evils; but it has found no remedy for the worst of them all -- the apathy of human beings.

Quote by Mary Wollstonecraft
Every political good carried to the extreme must be productive of evil.

Quote by Molly Ivins
I believe that ignorance is the root of all evil. And that no one knows the truth.

Quote by Henry Brooks Adam
It is always good men who do the most harm in the world.

Quote by Robert Heinlein
But goodness alone is never enough. A hard cold wisdom is required, too, for goodness to accomplish good. Goodness without wisdom invariably accomplishes evil.

Quote by Friedrich Nietzche
Battle not with monsters
lest ye become a monster
and if you gaze into the abyss
the abyss gazes into you.
sad I cry at those sad adverts on the telly with the kids on it with malnutrition etc. Such a shame.
I donate money to Unicef biggrin
Quote by pendant
We need to stop allowing
those who govern us use "9/11" and phantom menaces to control us,
to remove our civil liberties.

I couldn't agree more. I don't, however, think that we have any right to dictate the process of mourning to the American people, or to anybody else affected, by stating that it's 'time to move on.'
I'm fairly disgusted by the article though. It's one thing to point out the inequities wealth and poverty, it's quite another to suggest that 9/11was carried out by some global governmental conspiracy.
It's a shame the author doesn't even get his conspiracy theories right. Although the term 'illuminati' was used by the Birch Group in the 60s as a mask for anti-semitism, it's more recently come to be associated (with more historical accuracy) with the freemasons, the Yale Skull and Bones* and the Christian right. They are not "otherwise known as the New World Order" - whichis a conspiracy theory founded in anti-semitism (It's the Zionist Occupational Government's (ZOG) New World Order).
*No, that film wasn't entirely a work of fiction :shock:
Quote by JonJon
I don't, however, think that we have any right to dictate the process of mourning to the American people, or to anybody else affected, by stating that it's 'time to move on.'

You are of course quite right here. Serious foot-in-mouth problem, I apologise unreservedly to anyone of whatever nationality who lost loved ones in that disaster. I wasn't referring to them, I was talking about everyone else caught up in the hysteria.
Did you see "The Power of Nightmares" documentaries on BBC recently, JonJon? Opened my eyes to some things - at least to the extent that it proved that others have considered similar issues to some things I worry about, proved I'm not completely insane (I reckon partially insane is the normal state, me ;)).
On your other point, "New World Order" is a pretty generic term. I'm not sure that anyone "has their conspiracies right", surely the important thing is whether or not they exist... ?
Quote by pendant
Did you see "The Power of Nightmares" documentaries on BBC recently, JonJon?

I did smile I'm not sure that I ever doubted we were being lied to sad
Quote by pendant
On your other point, "New World Order" is a pretty generic term.

Unfortunately it's not. It is used by some people (including Gorbachev) to refer to the growing unity between East and West on political and economic issues, but if you hear a conspiracy theorist talking of it you can be reasonably certain that the 'global financiers' and 'European elite' (more euphemisms) are about to come up. There is a very widespread, and very alarming, given the lessons of history, belief in a Zionist conspiracy :(
Quote by JonJon
On your other point, "New World Order" is a pretty generic term.

Unfortunately it's not. It is used by some people (including Gorbachev) to refer to the growing unity between East and West on political and economic issues, but if you hear a conspiracy theorist talking of it you can be reasonably certain that the 'global financiers' and 'European elite' (more euphemisms) are about to come up. There is a very widespread, and very alarming, given the lessons of history, belief in a Zionist conspiracy sad
OK, I'll take your word for it, I admit that I wouldn't be able to tell a Zionist conspiracy from a pork pie, and I'm afraid that as a result whatever your point is is lost on me :(
Sod conspiracies.
I apologise for providing the source for the quote, that just led us up the garden path.
Some 3000 people died (albeit tragically) over three years ago.
Meanwhile more than TEN TIMES that number of people die of starvation EVERY SINGLE DAY.

Can you say "Proportional response"?.
How about "Humanitarian crisis?".
When are we going to wake up and do something about this? At the moment, the answer seems to be "Sorry, squire, never, we're too busy locking things down to make sure that some idiot can't drive a car into a school and maybe kill one or two of our own kids." Or any number of other relatively trivial threats.
Perhaps if we as nations went and actually DID something to cure the world's problems instead of leaving it up to under-resourced charitable organisations, we might get those who currently don't like us very much to sit up and notice that we are actually the nice people we like to think we are?
Sorry if this sounds angry, but I am mad
Point taken about the message of the thread getting waylaid.
Quote by pendant
When are we going to wake up and do something about this?

I'd hazard a guess at never. There's no political, economic, or, locally, social advantage to helping the starving thousands of miles away. Fortunately there are aid organisations doing something, because there's very little chance of governmental interest in an issue that will not win votes mad
Quote by JonJon
Point taken about the message of the thread getting waylaid.

When are we going to wake up and do something about this?

I'd hazard a guess at never. There's no political, economic, or, locally, social advantage to helping the starving thousands of miles away. Fortunately there are aid organisations doing something, because there's very little chance of governmental interest in an issue that will not win votes mad
I can think of a few "local social advantages"... quoting myself from earlier:
Perhaps if we as nations went and actually DID something to cure the world's problems instead of leaving it up to under-resourced charitable organisations, we might get those who currently don't like us very much to sit up and notice that we are actually the nice people we like to think we are?

Theoretical local social advantage 1: Less terrorism
Theoretical local social advantage 2: Less money spent/(wasted?) on things like having security officers armed with sub-machine guns patrolling public places (I saw one at Heathrow airport only yesterday)
Theoretical local social advantage 3: More time spent by politicians on sorting out other important issues
Theoretical local social advantage 4: More lurve smile
Sadly, I think you're right, especially about the politicians being hard to convince that this is something worth putting on the agenda - especially as the "WoT" gives them so much air time. That's that then. /me waves bye bye to another 30,000 people today sad
I totally agree with whats already been put.I really sympathise with all the victims families of 9/11 it was a horrible thing but it really does pale into insignificance when put alongside the millions who have starved to death in third world countries.
Nothing of major importance will ever be done to help though,not unless the rich governments find something of value for themselves in these areas.
Quote by Steve_Lincs
Nothing of major importance will ever be done to help though,not unless the rich governments find something of value for themselves in these areas.

I can see a problem for any UK Government with this.
If all they do is give money, they get accused of giving to corrupt goverments who line their own pockets without the real resources being given to those that need it, i.e. Etheopia, Somalia, etc
If they do anything more active they get accused of "imperialism", i.e. Iraq
Bit of damned if you do and damned if you don't. I would like to see what people would like to see happening, not just saying "bloody government", but real solutions that we could accept. Bearing in mind, most of the electorate don't want tax increases for our own social problems, so what service would you want to cut to help others less fortunate.
Dave_Notts
The comparison is completely spurious , compounded by the fact that it is a selective view that belongs somewhere else.
Why is the comparison false? confused
Dave_Notts
I'm Bored.... in all honesty i'm bored of the whole "conspiracy", "oil" and "its insignificant compared to so and so event or disaster" ideas.
The fact is.. a hell of a lot of people died on 9/11.
A faceless coward of a terrorist was to blame.
No matter was else is going on in the world or has gone on it does not mean that this incident was any less relevant.
So this is how i see it... if you choose to forget it then forget it!.
Even if your not arsed then don't be arsed!.
But if people want to air their thoughts and choose to be angry and passionate about what isnt right in this or any other country then that is their right.,. just as it is anyone elses right to go on and on and on and on about the starving people in whatever country.... Theres an ex marine called william that sits at the end of the street whos starving for christs sake!.. why does it always come down to them starving people in africa or wherever else?.
So whatever the reason for this apparently unjust war! at least we are getting rid of some sick and twisted fanatics who use their own beliefs the way others of their religion would not!.
For all the anti war, pink and fluffy , its not winning but the taking part massive!
we wouldnt have the choice nor opportunity to air such views if we had'nt done "whats right" in the past!.
Could someone please take this soap box away from me and not give it back. Lets get back to the horny stuff!
Africa has had billions poured into it for year after year.
By everyone, including the usa.
The bank accounts of the rulers of said african countries get bigger and bigger.
The people still starve.
Meanwhile, various wars still fight on in africa, the guns still fire and the food aid gets appropriated for the "troops", the aid workers get killed.
Despotic rulers inherit countries of plenty and turn them into pits of dispair, and the guns still fire.
Democratic rulers run countries of plenty, for some, and nothing for others, while people starve and die of disease in areas where nobody cares. The aid workers still die, the children get to cure disease, the guns still fire, and the rich rulers....do they care about their own people ?
Nobody can cure starvation unless they first cure the sick minds of the people who "own" and "run" the countries that are home to the starving.
Tribalism, militarism and religion.
Three deadly sins.
This is something that i feel quite strongly about.. i was in the infantry for 8nhalf yrs i have sevred all over the world firstly in the gulf then northern ireland and at the beginning of 1993 where most of my nightmares come from bosnia,
my regiment were one of the first UN soldiers to be sent to bosnia i was stationed in Vitez, after some of the things i saw over there i am ashamed to be called a human being,
i don't really want to delve in to details, but let me put it this way me and my friends had to clean up certain villages after hey had been ethnically cleansed,. these villages didn't have bodies of men or soldiers these people were neighbours wives children and it was their neghbours who were killing them
. it is the sickest most disturbing nightmare i have ever dealt with and i'm not alone my friends were there and many others like them and many others still out there in iraq have a thought for the people who are out there now having to clean up the shit that we as human being make there is an evil in us all and i hope i never see it here.
Until last week, I would have voiced a strong opinion on this. Then last week I was training a course, on the course were two Ghanaian soldiers. On the Wednesday, one of them asked if he could keep his mobile phone on because he was waiting for an important personal call. During the morning, his phone rang half a dozen times. Each time he came back, his mate would ask him about the call.
At lunch time, I asked if being on the course was the best thing for him. It turned out that his family in Ghana had got caught up in the conflict, and he was trying to find out what had happened. The head fuck came, when he told me that if he and his friend had both been soldiers at home, they would have been on opposing sides.
The subject that day - Conflict Resolution. and the reason for the course - both soldiers (and everyone else on the course) were being posted to Iraq on peacekeeping duties. What they couldn't understand was why so much effort was being put into Iraq - and so little being done for Ghana.
It was easy for me to voice my opinion on issues when I was looking at the big picture, from a distance, but when it suddenly became personal, and I had to think about the individuals involved, I realised that I had no way of comprehending what it was all about.
I do believe that the original point of the post was correct - it is time that the events of 9/11 were put in perspective - one horrible tragedy in a world with too many.
lhk
Kat
Quote by Dave__Notts

If all they do is give money, they get accused of giving to corrupt goverments who line their own pockets without the real resources being given to those that need it, i.e. Etheopia, Somalia, etc
If they do anything more active they get accused of "imperialism", i.e. Iraq
Bit of damned if you do and damned if you don't. I would like to see what people would like to see happening, not just saying "bloody government", but real solutions that we could accept. Bearing in mind, most of the electorate don't want tax increases for our own social problems, so what service would you want to cut to help others less fortunate.

Thank you - you've hit the nail on the head.
We can do nothing as individuals. Nations can do nothing about this by themselves. Those supranational organisations that currently exist lack the resources to be truly effective: charities fail to convince individuals to commit more than a few pounds a month to their causes: the UN tries but fails, and will probably always fail, to unite the nations.
I suggest that the solution is for us to work towards a world government. The absolute number one priority of this body would be to find ways of resolving strife on the planet. They would investigate the results of the mistakes humanity has made in the past and move to correct those we are still making, in many theatres. If successful, it could turn to resolving other worthwhile matters.
No, this would not be cheap, although trade-offs will be found; dropping bread is far cheaper than dropping bombs. No, this would not be popular. Vested interests in the status quo would fight tooth and nail to retain their position.
Current superpowers (yes, I know there's currently only one of these) and petty dictators would be the hardest to convince to sign up to such a thing. The only way it could happen is if enough people across the world started calling for it.
Yes, this is a complex matter. But while we lack the will to even discuss it, more people starve on our streets, in Africa, many places. As things stand now: quite honestly I feel ashamed to be human, a part of the species the planet, fighting against itself.
I see a brighter future. It can begin here, it can begin now. If we have the will.