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John Cage
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Orgasminator
Quote by Serendipity
Pfffft - I was expecting an Ally McBeal megamix! I'm so not down with the kids
Bygones.
Fishisms
Nice to see you Dippy, it's been too long! Hope you're keeping well x
*Her*
Quote by zoidberg
Apologies if there is a thread on this already, but i cant find one so i am starting one!
4'33" for xmas No. 1?
Are they mad?
Personally speaking i love it.
what are your views and comments?
Please direct hate mail and death threats to my in-box!
I hear Take That did a cover version of this, only their version began with five gunshots! Much better
Sex God
First time I've stuck my head round the door of The Forum for weeks, and what do I find? A thread on John Cage. Firstly it shows what a wonderfully eclectic and occasionally rarified place The Forum is...
However, it also gets me started on a personal bete noir of mine. 4'33" is NOT music.
Sorry, in case that wasn't clear. 4'33" is NOT music!!!!!
I've had this discussion with musician friends of mine, many of whom don't agree with me, but I still can't help thinking there is more than a touch of "The Emperor's New Clothes" about this.
Now don't get me wrong. I absolutely accept that silence can be a part of music. There are numerous examples of where a moment's pause in a piece of music can be extremely effective and highly dramatic. Imagine a Shakespeare soliloquy without any pause or punctuation. It would lose it's dramatic impact and be reduced to a meaningless string of words (if anyone is tempted to say that Shakespeare IS a meaningless string of words - I suggest you don't!). Changes in pace and even some silence are the punctuation in music. But JUST silence?
I mean, no musical talent is required to either 'compose' it or to perform it. Somebody with absolutely no musical training or talent could come onto the stage of any concert hall in the world, sit at a piano stall without moving for four minutes and 33 seconds and then, what? Leave to a standing ovation and tumultuous applause? It's bonkers.
Still, on the positive side, as a trained pianist and organist, this is the only piece of music of which I can give a virtuoso performance on ANY instrument. From viols, shawms and sackbuts to drums, bass and theremin I am absolutely bloody note perfect! :smug: Which kind of proves my point. No talent needed.
..............and breathe....................
Will - rant over, I promise to behave now!
However, it also gets me started on a personal bete noir of mine. 4'33" is NOT music.
Sorry, in case that wasn't clear. 4'33" is NOT music!!!!!
I've had this discussion with musician friends of mine, many of whom don't agree with me, but I still can't help thinking there is more than a touch of "The Emperor's New Clothes" about this.
Now don't get me wrong. I absolutely accept that silence can be a part of music. There are numerous examples of where a moment's pause in a piece of music can be extremely effective and highly dramatic. Imagine a Shakespeare soliloquy without any pause or punctuation. It would lose it's dramatic impact and be reduced to a meaningless string of words (if anyone is tempted to say that Shakespeare IS a meaningless string of words - I suggest you don't!). Changes in pace and even some silence are the punctuation in music. But JUST silence?
I mean, no musical talent is required to either 'compose' it or to perform it. Somebody with absolutely no musical training or talent could come onto the stage of any concert hall in the world, sit at a piano stall without moving for four minutes and 33 seconds and then, what? Leave to a standing ovation and tumultuous applause? It's bonkers.
Still, on the positive side, as a trained pianist and organist, this is the only piece of music of which I can give a virtuoso performance on ANY instrument. From viols, shawms and sackbuts to drums, bass and theremin I am absolutely bloody note perfect! :smug: Which kind of proves my point. No talent needed.
..............and breathe....................
Will - rant over, I promise to behave now!
OOOh Will dont get me started on Shakespeare talk about................
Only joking. Merry christmas to you both.
Back onto this Cage thing. I am really fond of the piece simply because I have loved music since I was a child (a love nurtured by my my granny and her music hall performing family) and was delighted to discover in my early teens that "proper" musicians could have a sense of humour. It encouraged me to explore "old fashioned" music and find delightful things that I might never have otherwise discovered.
In terms of live performance, I would definitely need the assistance of a conductor as I would be unable to count the piece accurately on my own.
As for the campaign, after last years, I don't think a repeat is necessary.
Only joking. Merry christmas to you both.
Back onto this Cage thing. I am really fond of the piece simply because I have loved music since I was a child (a love nurtured by my my granny and her music hall performing family) and was delighted to discover in my early teens that "proper" musicians could have a sense of humour. It encouraged me to explore "old fashioned" music and find delightful things that I might never have otherwise discovered.
In terms of live performance, I would definitely need the assistance of a conductor as I would be unable to count the piece accurately on my own.
As for the campaign, after last years, I don't think a repeat is necessary.
Sex God
I just actually viewed that for the first time well I lie I viewed some of it mainly cus its immensely fucking boring. Belongs of the same shelf as the turner prize entries.
Who were all these people too? No one I recognize. Nice chance to get on video though and some free publicity, hypocrites.
Who were all these people too? No one I recognize. Nice chance to get on video though and some free publicity, hypocrites.
Master of Sex
Interesting to read some of the responses to this.
"Arty-farty nonsense... art for art's sake" says one. "Turner Prize... publicity hungry hypocrites" says another. Art is meant to be challenging. It's not just random silence. Each "performance" is meant to include the sounds of the surroundings in which it is played, so that birdsong, coughs, moving furniture etc are all included and therefore makes each "performance" individual and different. John Cage composed it in 1952 (so it predates rock n roll) and was influenced by Cage's interest in Zen Buddhism.
Why it was done is the same reason why Rage Against The Machine was done last year. As a protest to the bland, soulless warblings of Simon Bowel's ego massage that is The X Factor. RATM didn't exactly work as it was meant to though as they were/are signed to Bowel's record company so guess who made the money?
I support anything that will bloody Bowel's nose. He is slowly killing pop music with his glorified karaoke singers.
"Arty-farty nonsense... art for art's sake" says one. "Turner Prize... publicity hungry hypocrites" says another. Art is meant to be challenging. It's not just random silence. Each "performance" is meant to include the sounds of the surroundings in which it is played, so that birdsong, coughs, moving furniture etc are all included and therefore makes each "performance" individual and different. John Cage composed it in 1952 (so it predates rock n roll) and was influenced by Cage's interest in Zen Buddhism.
Why it was done is the same reason why Rage Against The Machine was done last year. As a protest to the bland, soulless warblings of Simon Bowel's ego massage that is The X Factor. RATM didn't exactly work as it was meant to though as they were/are signed to Bowel's record company so guess who made the money?
I support anything that will bloody Bowel's nose. He is slowly killing pop music with his glorified karaoke singers.
Sex God
Quote by Dave_Desert229
Interesting to read some of the responses to this.
"Arty-farty nonsense... art for art's sake" says one. "Turner Prize... publicity hungry hypocrites" says another. Art is meant to be challenging. It's not just random silence. Each "performance" is meant to include the sounds of the surroundings in which it is played, so that birdsong, coughs, moving furniture etc are all included and therefore makes each "performance" individual and different. John Cage composed it in 1952 (so it predates rock n roll) and was influenced by Cage's interest in Zen Buddhism.
Sorry this is just movement and noise in a room its still not music. When I fart in my office its not music and and exam hall full of pupils with chesty coughs is also not music. Also its not being played or performed as its just people sat in a room that does not qualify as playing or performing.
Utter tosh, even worse than Stock Aitken and Waterman
