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Kids
Everybody is correct to a point. What seems to be overlooked here is the individual circumstances of a family. It`s impossible to make a blanket statement to determine why kids are off of the rails, because there will always be individual families who do not fit into that catagory. That`s what makes it such a touchy subject. Not all parents want, or deserve to be tarred with the same brush, but you can damn well guaruntee that there are some who deserve to be tarred with that brush.....and feathered......and possibly set fire to as well.
Venusxxx
Venusxxx
Sex God
the voice of reason as usual Miss V . I dont disagree with you , but when it comes to action and more specifically legislation and trying proactively to solve some of the problem then some kind of generalisation is a price we may have to pay to bring improvement . We cant always be flexible in a society , sometimes things must be adressed strictly and swiftly in order to preserve the very fabric of what society is . Of course we try and build in checks and balances , that is only right , but we cant allow the needs of a minority within a minority to continuously outweigh the needs and rights of the majority of citizens .
Sex God
Quote by Scandal
Not all parents want, or deserve to be tarred with the same brush, but you can damn well guaruntee that there are some who deserve to be tarred with that brush.....and feathered......and possibly set fire to as
If people blame parents for their childrens' behaviour, who do they blame for the parents behaviour?
The parents parents?
Of course youre right Scandal if things were that black and white it would be easy , but the problems of parenting and child behaviour have arisen from a slow culmination of factors. Its pointless historically analyzing who's fault it was . I dont want blame , I want responsibility . Our system doesnt seem to make the individual children responsible , and thats perhaps right up to a point , so we must look to their parents or guardians to be responsible . If we dont then what are we left with but anarchy ?
Quote by veejay
Have to say though, she never bad-mouthed her elders, she chose to play headgames with them instead, she constantly adopted strange behaviours in order to test her teachers.....they used to bloody fall for it too
Bloody goths :lol2:
Venusxxx
She sounds like a clever girl. Do you think her being bullied may have been a problem? Kind of reminds me of someone. Wasn't a bad kid, just in a difficult situation which caused them to react badly.
Yes, she is a clever kid, but well behind in her education. I was sick when she was 13, and it lasted for about two years, and whilst I was sick, she went off the rails. Although I taught her to stick up for herself at school, I was unaware of how badly ostericised she was by her peer group. She adopted a `fuck you` attitude to compensate. She has calmed down tremendously since I pulled her out of school, but she still has a lot to catch up on regarding her education. Unfortunately I wasn`t well enough to cope with getting her back on track and her GCSE`s. I felt getting her behaviour sorted was more important at the time, and put all of my effort into that, just offering a basic education until she could go to college to take her GCSE`s. She blew college out this year because the college she attended put her in foundation groups for every subject she took alongside students who had failed their exams. She hadn`t failed, she hadn`t taken them at all. She was under stimulated and started to skip class, so they booted her.
What made me angry was that I phoned the authorities for extra help whilst I was ill, and this help was denied. After I recovered, and was dealing with the fallout, which I had tried to avoid by admitting I needed some help, they were in our faces all the time, yet at that point I was doing everything there was to be done to put things right, the outside interferance just added more pressure to a bad situation, because at this point my eldest was so resentful of the `establishment` as she felt the system at school had let her down. I tried very hard to show the authorities I was willing to work with them, and encouraged her to do the same, but at this point the seed had already been sown.
I guess I wasn`t beating her enough, or she wasn`t taking hard enough drugs for them to have taken us seriously. There aren`t enough resources for Social services to help head things off at the pass. They are too busy dealing with the 13 year olds who live on the streets for weeks at a time smoking crack. I really believe that if I hadn`t have been lucky enough to be living where we are, then she could have easily been one of those kids, and this could have happened despite my asking for help.
Venusxxx
Quote by Scandal
Not all parents want, or deserve to be tarred with the same brush, but you can damn well guaruntee that there are some who deserve to be tarred with that brush.....and feathered......and possibly set fire to as
If people blame parents for their childrens' behaviour, who do they blame for the parents behaviour?
The parents parents?
Possibly, but circles can be broken. It`s not an easy subject, because it brings up the issue of how much morality is determined by nurture or nature. If an adults behaviour is criminal, then they need to be held accountable. Criminal behaviour is wrong, regardless of it`s roots. Not all parents who come from a bad background adopt the same behaviour and pass it on to their children. Those who do need to be held responsible, and re-educated...............if they are open to that, if not then tarred and feathered seems a pretty good option, because then I`d put their behaviour down to nature
Quote by Silk and Big G
Of course we try and build in checks and balances , that is only right , but we cant allow the needs of a minority within a minority to continuously outweigh the needs and rights of the majority of citizens.
The voice of practicality as always. I don`t disagree with this at all. It`s just how it needs to work if the trend is to be nipped in the bud. I`m just all too aware of how this could chew up and spit out the minority groups. I`m just saddened that there doesn`t seem to be the resources to avoid this.
Venusxxx
Orgasminator
Quote by Silk and Big G
Cant decide wether thats agreement or disagreement . Maybe its me .
It's really a combination. In my opinion, you need to have both for a failed person- parents who can't give a .... and kids intent on wrecking themselves. There are kids I've seen born in bad circumstances who change things for themselves and those who have it all yet still manage to screw things up.
It was my way of saying that there are sometimes when parents do try, yet they fail because the little bugger is determined to make a mess of themself. And in those situations you can't blame the parents so much (thoough there are parents who don't try at all/encourage bad behaviour too
). Orgasminator
Quote by Silk and Big G
So to sum up . It isnt parents responsibility to control their kids , unless it involves physical abuse .
Not at all. First of all, its every parents duty to protect their kids from harm And if you read what I have written above, you'll see that I say that parents need to teach their kids right from wrong, and not encourage them in the wrong direction
Quote by Silk and Big G
We shouldnt punish children in school for fear of causing them resentment but the "system" should be harsher in the way they punish them ,
We should punish kids- but there are ways of punishing people without humiliating them in front of others. How about detention? And visits to parenst of disuptive kids? If that doesnt work why don't they expel them, rather than pu55y foot about?
What we get now is a visit to a shrink who comes up with some excuse for them to get away with poor behaviour. Worst is when such kids get sent on special excursions and day trips. How does that solve anything?
Quote by Silk and Big G
oh and teachers are paedophiles.
I didn't say all of them are. It was just a side note I made. But I think everyone would agree that even today there will be paedos working as teachers. Remember the police guy who was working with the Soham families? wasn't he supposed to be one too?
So if you can get someone in such a position being a , then it isn't too outrageous to say that there will be afew teachers who are also that way.
Quote by jamnat20032003
i agree with bringing back the cane
to be honest i got most of my discipline from school
a teacher nowadays cant even touch a disruptive kid in their class
i got a belt a few times and it didnt do me any harm
Yup its gone pc mad, a kid if 12 these days has the arrogance of a kid of 14 or 15 "when i were lad!"
A good slapping and more boot camp would be cool
Jon
Sex God
Silk here. (apologies for the confusing of G and I posting our opinions).
Im not saying hitting a child is wrong, but in the same breath, I would chose many other avenues to discipline my child before resorting to physical intervention. I can accept there is a time and a place when a smack on the bottom can be more effective than stern words or sanctions but how do we as parents measure the force to which that smack is delivered and when that time is appropriate? Is a smack that bruises ok? Is a smack that doesn't, ok? When does challenging behaviour invite physical contact?
Lets use an example...
Your 2 year old has taken up biting. Often, the advice given is to bite back...to show them the pain they are creating, but what example is that? You then, cannot deny the confusion your 2 year old has. Its ok for Mummy to bite me, but I mustn't. (just curious to what other people think)
Being a parent aint easy, after all we have smacked our children at one time or another and felt bad about it. We are supposed to be responsible adults, but children in all their blessed glory, test that rationality and responsibility with unconscious and continual vigour. We have ALL met young children that we felt could have done with a smack from time to time, but is that our frustrations and inability to cope, talking?
I am often be blamed for being too PC, I wont deny that, but I am fortunate enough to have two children who are courteous, respectful and energetic youngsters. I also, as my career, work with emotionally damaged children, so taking into consideration, my misspent youth and what Im faced with on a daily basis, see both sides of the proverbial coin.
Im not saying hitting a child is wrong, but in the same breath, I would chose many other avenues to discipline my child before resorting to physical intervention. I can accept there is a time and a place when a smack on the bottom can be more effective than stern words or sanctions but how do we as parents measure the force to which that smack is delivered and when that time is appropriate? Is a smack that bruises ok? Is a smack that doesn't, ok? When does challenging behaviour invite physical contact?
Lets use an example...
Your 2 year old has taken up biting. Often, the advice given is to bite back...to show them the pain they are creating, but what example is that? You then, cannot deny the confusion your 2 year old has. Its ok for Mummy to bite me, but I mustn't. (just curious to what other people think)
Being a parent aint easy, after all we have smacked our children at one time or another and felt bad about it. We are supposed to be responsible adults, but children in all their blessed glory, test that rationality and responsibility with unconscious and continual vigour. We have ALL met young children that we felt could have done with a smack from time to time, but is that our frustrations and inability to cope, talking?
I am often be blamed for being too PC, I wont deny that, but I am fortunate enough to have two children who are courteous, respectful and energetic youngsters. I also, as my career, work with emotionally damaged children, so taking into consideration, my misspent youth and what Im faced with on a daily basis, see both sides of the proverbial coin.
Silky, I think most children go through that stage of biting. When mine did, I was often told to `bite her back`. I never did. The idea repulsed me. I have however, smacked my children in the past, yes there are other avenues at a parent`s disposal, but sometimes it`s just bloody quicker! I don`t mind admitting that sometimes I took an easier way out, much in the same way I don`t mind letting my children know that I am, in fact, human. The approach worked for me, as when they became older (about 7) I found that I rarely needed to smack them at all. Often a raised voice, or communicating my disappointment in their behaviour was enough to make them stop and think. In fact one of them once told me that out of all of the punishments I dished out, it was the look of disappointment which effected her the most. The line I ALWAYS drew when I smacked my children, was that I didn`t enjoy doing it. If I`d ever found myself wanting to smack them as a release, then that would be the worst thing for me to do.
No a smack that bruises is not ok. A smack that doesn`t probably isn`t if you want to be a perfectparent, but such an parent doesn`t exist (IMO), and neither do I think it takes a perfect parent to be a good one. Banning smacking altogether, when the vast majority of parents DON`t step over the mark doesn`t leave much room for the average parent. I do realise that many parents don`t smack their children at all, and this works very well for them, but every parent is likely to fall down in minor ways somewhere along the line, and I don`t see why smacking should be centered out from all the other minor infractions a parent can make.
A smack that doesn`t probably isn`t if you want to be a perfectparent, but such an parent doesn`t exist
I take that back. A perfect parent is one who can show their children that people have their frailties. Therefore I am the perfect parent. :smug:
Venusxxx
No a smack that bruises is not ok. A smack that doesn`t probably isn`t if you want to be a perfectparent, but such an parent doesn`t exist (IMO), and neither do I think it takes a perfect parent to be a good one. Banning smacking altogether, when the vast majority of parents DON`t step over the mark doesn`t leave much room for the average parent. I do realise that many parents don`t smack their children at all, and this works very well for them, but every parent is likely to fall down in minor ways somewhere along the line, and I don`t see why smacking should be centered out from all the other minor infractions a parent can make.
A smack that doesn`t probably isn`t if you want to be a perfectparent, but such an parent doesn`t exist
I take that back. A perfect parent is one who can show their children that people have their frailties. Therefore I am the perfect parent. :smug:
Venusxxx
Silky, as to the biting situation. All my kids went through it and yes, I did bite them back. It only took one bite from me for them to stop. The health visitor visited the day after I'd bitten my youngest. I pointed out to her, she just told me to inform his nursery before they reported it, which I did. Problem solved.
I did the same thing when they went through the kicking stage too.
I don't allow violent video games or movies, nor are they allowed to watch wrestling, because yes, it does make them more violent. (I only have boys)
I also have a wooden paddle that I paddle their butts with when they're really uncontrolable and all else has failed (my hands are for loving, the wooden paddle does the business) and none of them have needed it more than a couple a times a year each.
There is a fine line between physical discipline and abuse. Abuse is when you smack indiscriminately and leave marks. My kids only get it on their butts. No where else.
As for corprol punishment in schools... NO BLOODY WAY! How am I to know the person issueing that discipline is not of a violent nature? I'd rather the school inform me of my childs misbehaviour and I'll deal with it, or detention or other fun activities be taken from them.
Not the perfect mom. Just the best mom I know how to be. And a darn lot better at it than mine was!
PS. I wasn't a rebelious teenager. But I was fucked up none the less.
I did the same thing when they went through the kicking stage too.
I don't allow violent video games or movies, nor are they allowed to watch wrestling, because yes, it does make them more violent. (I only have boys)
I also have a wooden paddle that I paddle their butts with when they're really uncontrolable and all else has failed (my hands are for loving, the wooden paddle does the business) and none of them have needed it more than a couple a times a year each.
There is a fine line between physical discipline and abuse. Abuse is when you smack indiscriminately and leave marks. My kids only get it on their butts. No where else.
As for corprol punishment in schools... NO BLOODY WAY! How am I to know the person issueing that discipline is not of a violent nature? I'd rather the school inform me of my childs misbehaviour and I'll deal with it, or detention or other fun activities be taken from them.
Not the perfect mom. Just the best mom I know how to be. And a darn lot better at it than mine was!
PS. I wasn't a rebelious teenager. But I was fucked up none the less.
well look dont mean to sound likei know it all but have any of you with little b*****d neighbours like tried to have a joke or say hello while you are walking to your might bring and grow a little respect in them and that will give them a platform to develope some more.i had a laugh with the kids around my block coming home pissed and mucking around being a power ranger as well as being sober and saying alright and stuff and they all say hello and are quite are the same kids that when i was moving in they were throwing paint out of the balcony at the moving van and my mate was bshouting and yelling going saying you live in the comunitty aswell and well if some one spoke and they reconised that they had somthing in common like a football team or somthing then that is a base for respect and comunitty to to easy being anti social in a silent ,anti social world,town,housing when it comes to gangs then it is just them and us,i used to be a traveller and that is how it is,but when there is a bit of comunication then people are like'naw that bloke/lady is alright,i like her,him,leave him/her alone dont be a cunt'stuff like course be on your guard because you have to be but it might help talking to the kids and having a breeds respect.[maybe}it might be a good start.
Quote by Silk and Big G
Silk here. (apologies for the confusing of G and I posting our opinions).
Lets use an example...
Your 2 year old has taken up biting. Often, the advice given is to bite back...to show them the pain they are creating, but what example is that? You then, cannot deny the confusion your 2 year old has. Its ok for Mummy to bite me, but I mustn't. (just curious to what other people think)
coin.
....and the little buggers hurt don't they?!?!
the advice for children that bite is to bite them back...from some people. Others say to put them in a room on their own, others still suggest explaining to them why they shouldn't do it.
My little boy is 2 and a half and started biting a few months ago. I was first told of it at nursery, he bit another child. I couldn't really do anything then and there but I waited until that evening I pissed him off and he bit me. I took his hands, held him tight and told him in a stern voice that he is never to bite people (or animals, the cat was shitting himself!) and that if he did he would not have any respect from people, and made him sit on the stairs until he came in and said sorry....and he meant it. As young as he is that seemed to do it.
He has never tried to bite anyone again as far as I know.
The problem is, what works for one kid, may not work for another. They all have such differenct personalities that you just have to try each and every idea that you can think of in turn until you find one that works.
As for the differing advice, I firmly believe that a lot of it is to do with your own upbringing.
if you were brought up where a clip around the ear was common place, you are more likely to adopt the same policy with your own kids.
The real problem is unquantifiable because all situations are different, but I don't see how when a kid goes off the rails, it is not the parents fault. I do not believe that anyone is "born bad", merely the lessons that they lern in life teach them certain values.
Of course, this is not helped by overly liberal views towrds what parents can and can not do by the government. Nobody else (teachers, policemen) should ever hit my child, but neither should I be reported to the police if I give my child a smack on the hand!!!!
Bloody hell this subject makes me rant. I am normally very shy and quiet....
Danny, I do agree with much of what you are saying, but at some point as a child grows, a parent has to loosen those apron strings, and the environment a child is living in can have a huge impact upon their lives, as well as their parents. It can be very damaging to a teen not to have access to some independance and mix in with a peer group, but by the same token, the wrong peer group can lead to their undoing. To a teenager their peer group can become so much more important than their parents, it`s pretty normal for parents to become secondary to their social circle, it`s all a part of growing up. Add school to the mix, where they spend more time than with their parents, there can be plently over-looked depending on how vigilent the school is. For example, my daughter had access to alcohol through friends at school, if it had been a rougher inner-city school, she may have had access to much worse. It can be sooo easily over-looked. Kids are cunning like that.
I`d brought her up with all the chats about peer pressure etc which worked to a point, but she is a very strong-willed individual, one who all too often has to try things out for herself before she learns a lesson. That is her character. I probably raised her to be like that I admit, but if she can survive her teens, and I believe she will, this will act in her favour in the longrun, and she will reap the rewards (and hopefully thank us for it :P ).
Looking back, I can see so many instances where she could have gone off of the rails completely, and it`s seems to me, that it has been a combination of good parenting, the area we live in, and pure blind luck which has pulled her through. Not all parents have all three at their disposal.
Venusxxx
I`d brought her up with all the chats about peer pressure etc which worked to a point, but she is a very strong-willed individual, one who all too often has to try things out for herself before she learns a lesson. That is her character. I probably raised her to be like that I admit, but if she can survive her teens, and I believe she will, this will act in her favour in the longrun, and she will reap the rewards (and hopefully thank us for it :P ).
Looking back, I can see so many instances where she could have gone off of the rails completely, and it`s seems to me, that it has been a combination of good parenting, the area we live in, and pure blind luck which has pulled her through. Not all parents have all three at their disposal.
Venusxxx
FFS! My 13 year old has just rang in a state because a gang of kids have her and two of her friends hemmed in round her disabled gran`s house. She`s terrified.
Mars is running a temperature, and has warned he might possibly kill them when he gets there. I managed to get him to leave the jo-stick at home :shock:
Hoping that the girls aren`t daft enough to warn these kids that he`s on his way. Hope this gets nipped in the bud
Venusxxx
Mars is running a temperature, and has warned he might possibly kill them when he gets there. I managed to get him to leave the jo-stick at home :shock:
Hoping that the girls aren`t daft enough to warn these kids that he`s on his way. Hope this gets nipped in the bud
Venusxxx
Quote by Libra-Love
Silky, as to the biting situation. All my kids went through it and yes, I did bite them back. It only took one bite from me for them to stop. The health visitor visited the day after I'd bitten my youngest. I pointed out to her, she just told me to inform his nursery before they reported it, which I did. Problem solved.
Similar here .. my son only needed me to gently bite his hand and he's never done it since.
Quote by Libra-Love
I did the same thing when they went through the kicking stage too.
Thankfully we;ve never been through that
Quote by Libra-Love
I don't allow violent video games or movies, nor are they allowed to watch wrestling, because yes, it does make them more violent. (I only have boys)
Yep banned here too ... cartoons that are fairly violent are banned and they are restricted on how much they watch etc. I'm realtively over strict with them but they do appreciate it ~ they behave beautifully when in company
:) Quote by Libra-Love
PS. I wasn't a rebelious teenager. But I was fucked up none the less.
I was the rebellious teenager and totally fucked up
I swear my kids will be better and have better :)C x
