I have been reading about yet another innocent youth knifed to death in London.
I do not know how many that now makes this year alone but surely something has to be done, to stop this. Watching the parents of the 16 year old who just went out to buy his first lottery ticket, and then ends up dead killed by another teenager. For what? :shock:
Should carrying a knife carry a minimum 5 year prison term? Has this Government forgot the pledge it made? " tough on crime, tough on the causes on crime " What a joke that comment has since been proved to be.
Is there a way to stop these yobs from carrying knives, or do they reall y not give a toss about the law?
My opinion is that if they are caught carrying a knife then prison no questions asked. For using a knife a minimum 7 years and more if serious injury or death sustained in the attack. I mean 7 years not 18 months and then let out on good behaviour either. :shock:
Spare a thought today for the parents who have lost their children, to a knife wielding thug.
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Knife crime
When I was a kid, almost every boy I knew carried a pocket knife, I can't remember a single knife attack. A few of us even had large-ish sheath knives, not a single murder. A few years earlier the scout magazine carried advert for knives and axes that every boy should own and know how to use, no mass murders ensued.
A few years ago the Government brought in draconian legislation that banned all handguns after a deranged man went on a killing spree. We now have the most oppressive laws on the subject in the western world, and worse gun crime than America. Our Olympic pistol shooting team has to train abroad,because they may not own or keep their target pistols in the uk.
Demonizing the object is not the answer, be it a gun a knife a car a brick a screwdriver etc it's not the object its the user that needs to be delt I blame my bad spelling on my pencil or myself?...banning knives will not stop people using them, it will only deprive lawful users of a useful tool.
Please no more badly thought out hastily rushed through legislation just to feed the knee jerk ban everything dangerous, nanny state red tape loving, fanboys.
A few years ago the Government brought in draconian legislation that banned all handguns after a deranged man went on a killing spree. We now have the most oppressive laws on the subject in the western world, and worse gun crime than America. Our Olympic pistol shooting team has to train abroad,because they may not own or keep their target pistols in the uk.
Demonizing the object is not the answer, be it a gun a knife a car a brick a screwdriver etc it's not the object its the user that needs to be delt I blame my bad spelling on my pencil or myself?...banning knives will not stop people using them, it will only deprive lawful users of a useful tool.
Please no more badly thought out hastily rushed through legislation just to feed the knee jerk ban everything dangerous, nanny state red tape loving, fanboys.
Quote by Stormwalker
When I was a kid, almost every boy I knew carried a pocket knife, I can't remember a single knife attack. A few of us even had large-ish sheath knives, not a single murder. A few years earlier the scout magazine carried advert for knives and axes that every boy should own and know how to use, no mass murders ensued.
A few years ago the Government brought in draconian legislation that banned all handguns after a deranged man went on a killing spree. We now have the most oppressive laws on the subject in the western world, and worse gun crime than America. Our Olympic pistol shooting team has to train abroad,because they may not own or keep their target pistols in the uk.
Demonizing the object is not the answer, be it a gun a knife a car a brick a screwdriver etc it's not the object its the user that needs to be delt I blame my bad spelling on my pencil or myself?...banning knives will not stop people using them, it will only deprive lawful users of a useful tool.
Please no more badly thought out hastily rushed through legislation just to feed the knee jerk ban everything dangerous, nanny state red tape loving, fanboys.
Obviously not that draconian as if that is the case, how come that barrister had a gun in his flash house in Chelsea the other day? :shock:
And was firing it? All guns should be in a gun club locked away, out of harms way. Why do people have to have a gun in a residential house fgs? :shock:
The reason we all had knives as kids were times were different then, than to now. Obviously some people do not see we have a knife problem out there?
Sex God
Quote by Stormwalker
Obviously some people do not see we have a knife problem out there?
We don't, we have a people problem.
knifes dont kill people, people do - same as
guns dont kill people, people do
Sex God
Though I agree with most of what Storm says in his first reply on this I do however also believe that the gun laws bought in where just a 'knee jerk' reaction (
) to very uncommon events. The existing laws in my view were enough,
As for knives and knife attacks. God only knows how the parents grieve over the loss of these boys it must be horrendous on an unholy scale. In saying this the fact is these crimes are so very rare but due to the sensational elements involved become exploited by the ever increasing voracity of the media.
To give out a mandatory sentence of 5 years to young people just for possessing a knife in my view is far far to way over the top. As a schoolboy I carried a knife as did others in my year I never used but i did have it and I think if i had had a knife on me in previous school years due to the bullying i received if I'd had the guts
or was nuts enough yes i would of used it. But i never did and i'm glad of that.
To give to a boy (or girl i guess) of say seventeeneighteen-ish 5 years jail just for possessing a knife, when for some it is a way of feeling safer and a reaction to the social surroundings is crazy. Why not just double the youth offenders overnight giving them all records and more baggage to carry through their already for a lot dismal lives.
) to very uncommon events. The existing laws in my view were enough, As for knives and knife attacks. God only knows how the parents grieve over the loss of these boys it must be horrendous on an unholy scale. In saying this the fact is these crimes are so very rare but due to the sensational elements involved become exploited by the ever increasing voracity of the media.
To give out a mandatory sentence of 5 years to young people just for possessing a knife in my view is far far to way over the top. As a schoolboy I carried a knife as did others in my year I never used but i did have it and I think if i had had a knife on me in previous school years due to the bullying i received if I'd had the guts
or was nuts enough yes i would of used it. But i never did and i'm glad of that. To give to a boy (or girl i guess) of say seventeeneighteen-ish 5 years jail just for possessing a knife, when for some it is a way of feeling safer and a reaction to the social surroundings is crazy. Why not just double the youth offenders overnight giving them all records and more baggage to carry through their already for a lot dismal lives.
Mod
Unless anyone has a valid reason for carrying a knife and I don't mean for self defence then IMO they should get at least five years in the pokie..Maybe a bit harsh you might say but would it stop the tossers from carrying one?
But I can't abide people who think carrying a weapon makes them a big man and it nearly always ends in a death or at the very least someone being maimed for life.
But I can't abide people who think carrying a weapon makes them a big man and it nearly always ends in a death or at the very least someone being maimed for life.
(now i'm no killjoy) but after a little thought on this i'm wondering if you made this law how would the police police it surely by more stop and search powers which i'm sure we dont want, because unless you used the knife how else would a policeman know your carrying one unless he searched you?
Sex God
I wonder how many people used to carry pocket knives? I know both my grandfathers did.
Quote by cockslut
(now i'm no killjoy) but after a little thought on this i'm wondering if you made this law how would the police police it surely by more stop and search powers which i'm sure we dont want, because unless you used the knife how else would a policeman know your carrying one unless he searched you?
I agree 100% with stop and search. Without it the police cannot do their job properly, which I am sure we all want them to do?
If you have nothing to hide where is the problem? I am fully aware that it is people that kill but...if the penalties were much higher, would they still carry them, and more scary use them?
It is always the same answer but for those who do not agree with very harsh penalties for carrying a knife, would you feel different if someone you knew had been stabbed and killed by one? It is apparent to me that laws need to be changed so as to try and stop people from carrying one, and the only way you might is if tough prison terms were used. But we know to get a prison sentence now you have to do something pretty serious to be even considered for prison. :shock:
Stop and search laws and the human rights act have led to people being less afraid to carry one, as they know getting caught is no longer something to be scared of. How many others have to die before something is done? Many more I feel.
Quote by winchwench
There are no easy answers. However, many things can be used to commit acts of violence.
Where do we stop? Do we ban people from having glass in a public place? Mobile Phones?
Or should we tackle the underlying problem?
Knives will always be the weapon of choice for youths...
They will always be easy to come by, cheap & will always give the owner the cache of being 'hard' amongst his/her peers
As for tackling 'the underlying problem'?
What is the the underlying problem?
Personally I feel we are Soooooo far from the the underlying problem that no-body can see it!
Let's not forget this knife culture has been around far longer than we care to remember
What we see now is an explosion of fear violence & a 'fuck you till I get mine' attitude in the nation - not just the children!
....who do children/youths/young adults copy ffs?
US AS A NATION!!!
We all want a nation where the right to express one-self is paramount
But with that comes the stark responsibility to anyone who is unable to partake in the supposed utopia!
Fear will always breed ignorance & ignorance breeds anarchy!
We have ignorant children in our society who in turn will possiblyhave children of they're own...
How can anyone tackle the underlying problem?
It's far too easy to 'blame the parents' & that excuse has proven to to be so far off the mark time & time again add infinitum it just makes my blood boil when I hear it! Grrrrr...
Your average youth who wants to pack a blade does not think the same way as you or I because his/her priorities maybe to same end -to get by- but the method employed to get there can be completely alien.
A whole new radical way of thinking will be needed to sort this one out.
If your like me & think respect for one another will be the key to the underlying problem dream on
A youth carries a weapon because he/she craves that respectthing!
A whole new radical way of thinking will be needed to sort this one out.
..so far the most common way for someone to turn their back on carrying a knife is when it's too late!
Quote by redpantherman
There are no easy answers. However, many things can be used to commit acts of violence.
Where do we stop? Do we ban people from having glass in a public place? Mobile Phones?
Or should we tackle the underlying problem?
Knives will always be the weapon of choice for youths...
They will always be easy to come by, cheap & will always give the owner the cache of being 'hard' amongst his/her peers
As for tackling 'the underlying problem'?
What is the the underlying problem?
Personally I feel we are Soooooo far from the the underlying problem that no-body can see it!
Let's not forget this knife culture has been around far longer than we care to remember
What we see now is an explosion of fear violence & a 'fuck you till I get mine' attitude in the nation - not just the children!
....who do children/youths/young adults copy ffs?
US AS A NATION!!!
We all want a nation where the right to express one-self is paramount
But with that comes the stark responsibility to anyone who is unable to partake in the supposed utopia!
Fear will always breed ignorance & ignorance breeds anarchy!
We have ignorant children in our society who in turn will possiblyhave children of they're own...
How can anyone tackle the underlying problem?
It's far too easy to 'blame the parents' & that excuse has proven to to be so far off the mark time & time again add infinitum it just makes my blood boil when I hear it! Grrrrr...
Your average youth who wants to pack a blade does not think the same way as you or I because his/her priorities maybe to same end -to get by- but the method employed to get there can be completely alien.
A whole new radical way of thinking will be needed to sort this one out.
If your like me & think respect for one another will be the key to the underlying problem dream on
A youth carries a weapon because he/she craves that respect thing!
A whole new radical way of thinking will be needed to sort this one out.
..so far the most common way for someone to turn their back on carrying a knife is when it's too late!
Agreed hun, but I think fear is mistaken for respect. :thumbup:
Ban knives & the result will be A) Better knife concealment and / or B) A new "weapon of choice".....and so Ad Infinitum.
Our soon to be 18 year old is a model teenager. She's set up charities which have made a real difference to peoples lives around the world. She has never lifted a fiinger to anyone in anger. In a couple of months, she goes off on her first holiday with friends. They'll be spending some time wild camping off the beaten track. In preperation for the trip, I bought her a Swiss army knife type thingy. Should she be thrown into prison for carrying it on her trip?
Sex God
I would object to being stopped and searched on a whim by a police officer 
Just because a drunken/angry/vindictive/wronged (take your pick) person can't keep his hands to himself and stabs someone. If a police officer has just reason to believe I might be carrying an illegal weapon or something that I intend to use illegally then obviously do the search :thumbup: but if I have to factor in an extra 15 minutes to be stopped and searched every time I leave the house I'm not going to get a lot done in my day am I?
The majority of us are good honest citizens who don't go around killing people. Why should we have to alter our lives because of the one's who are not. If the right sentences were given out consistently and punishments fitted the crimes more effectively then maybe people would think more carefully before committing the crimes.
If one of my children were killed by a knife I would expect to see the murderer receive a life sentence if one of them was injured by a knife I would also expect to see a hefty prison sentence or rehabilitation period including anger management depending on the age of the person using the knife.
Two men! one fishes, camps lives an "outdoor life" and uses his knife on a daily basis for various "outdoor stuff" The other is a younger man lives in the city drinks rather alot and is generally angry or provocative to others and uses his knife to threaten or to "look hard" why should the first man have to alter his circumstance to fit the rules that have been made because of the second man's incapability to use his knife appropriately?? Deal with the crimes effectively and then maybe they won't happen so often.
I do know someone who was stabbed and I do also know someone who was shot. This still does'nt change my views.
Love
Fire xxx
Just because a drunken/angry/vindictive/wronged (take your pick) person can't keep his hands to himself and stabs someone. If a police officer has just reason to believe I might be carrying an illegal weapon or something that I intend to use illegally then obviously do the search :thumbup: but if I have to factor in an extra 15 minutes to be stopped and searched every time I leave the house I'm not going to get a lot done in my day am I? The majority of us are good honest citizens who don't go around killing people. Why should we have to alter our lives because of the one's who are not. If the right sentences were given out consistently and punishments fitted the crimes more effectively then maybe people would think more carefully before committing the crimes.
If one of my children were killed by a knife I would expect to see the murderer receive a life sentence if one of them was injured by a knife I would also expect to see a hefty prison sentence or rehabilitation period including anger management depending on the age of the person using the knife.
Two men! one fishes, camps lives an "outdoor life" and uses his knife on a daily basis for various "outdoor stuff" The other is a younger man lives in the city drinks rather alot and is generally angry or provocative to others and uses his knife to threaten or to "look hard" why should the first man have to alter his circumstance to fit the rules that have been made because of the second man's incapability to use his knife appropriately?? Deal with the crimes effectively and then maybe they won't happen so often.
I do know someone who was stabbed and I do also know someone who was shot. This still does'nt change my views.
Love
Fire xxx
An age old saying of mine is you cant legislate against the madmen...
Now I agree with some legislation. I feel far safer in the UK than the US. We cant bear arms, and guns are for hunting not defence. Equally I can see that assault rifles have very little place in society (AK47 for example). The same can be said of combat knives, designed to kill not cut.
A lock knife is a tool, an sas dagger is for killing. The trouble is a lock knife can kill, and how in law do you define an SAS dagger anyway?
Take the latest waste of time, banning swords. As an Aikido practitioner I know how to use a sword, and we dont use metal ones these days, not because of injuries, just insurance. However I like to own a couple for display, I find something deeply symbolic about them.
I think here I will point out Aikido is totally defensive, you learn no agressive moves and it is founded on disabling, never injuring let alone killing an attacker.
So the goverment banned swords as there were something like 39 incidents involving them. So now I cant buy a sword with a curve in it, but one exactly the same with a streight blade... yes that makes me feel safer.
Its like the guns, does it really hurt that I own a plastic BB gun to plink in my garden with? Lets go for the real ones on the streets guys, not the toys. If the toys can be made real ban them sure, but not the ones that cant.
Lets use some discretion here, I own a lot of knives, they are in the kitchen. Hey I like to cook. I also would like to carry my picnic stuff in the boat of my car without worrying that the knives in it are weapons. I bite my nails and want a 2 inch or so pocket knife to open stuff, cut fruit, and be a useful tool. Sadly I am too scared to get prosocuted.
Somewhere there must be a ballence, bearing in mind one of the tragic deaths this week was caused by broken glass not a weapon.
Now I agree with some legislation. I feel far safer in the UK than the US. We cant bear arms, and guns are for hunting not defence. Equally I can see that assault rifles have very little place in society (AK47 for example). The same can be said of combat knives, designed to kill not cut.
A lock knife is a tool, an sas dagger is for killing. The trouble is a lock knife can kill, and how in law do you define an SAS dagger anyway?
Take the latest waste of time, banning swords. As an Aikido practitioner I know how to use a sword, and we dont use metal ones these days, not because of injuries, just insurance. However I like to own a couple for display, I find something deeply symbolic about them.
I think here I will point out Aikido is totally defensive, you learn no agressive moves and it is founded on disabling, never injuring let alone killing an attacker.
So the goverment banned swords as there were something like 39 incidents involving them. So now I cant buy a sword with a curve in it, but one exactly the same with a streight blade... yes that makes me feel safer.
Its like the guns, does it really hurt that I own a plastic BB gun to plink in my garden with? Lets go for the real ones on the streets guys, not the toys. If the toys can be made real ban them sure, but not the ones that cant.
Lets use some discretion here, I own a lot of knives, they are in the kitchen. Hey I like to cook. I also would like to carry my picnic stuff in the boat of my car without worrying that the knives in it are weapons. I bite my nails and want a 2 inch or so pocket knife to open stuff, cut fruit, and be a useful tool. Sadly I am too scared to get prosocuted.
Somewhere there must be a ballence, bearing in mind one of the tragic deaths this week was caused by broken glass not a weapon.
Quote by GnV
Prison is no deterrent these days
3 meals a day and the best seat in the house for watching TV on the most up to date equipment available! :shock:
And access to "alternative" substances when they need them so as not to deprive them of their human rights
Don't make me laugh.
Don't believe everything you read in the tabloids!!
Quote by Mr-Powers
Prison is no deterrent these days
3 meals a day and the best seat in the house for watching TV on the most up to date equipment available! :shock:
And access to "alternative" substances when they need them so as not to deprive them of their human rights
Don't make me laugh.
Don't believe everything you read in the tabloids!!
Bloody well scares me :shock:
I have a young family, a job, and wife and I would die to go to jail. However if I had nothing I can see how it would be better than that in some ways. Still thats what community sentances are for, make people work.
Sex God
Quote by GnV
Prison is no deterrent these days
3 meals a day and the best seat in the house for watching TV on the most up to date equipment available! :shock:
And access to "alternative" substances when they need them so as not to deprive them of their human rights
Don't make me laugh.
When was the last time you were in prison GnV? Unable to eat what you want, unable to pick up the phone and speak to whoever you want to, unable to watch TV, listen to music, have the music that you like played when you wanted, sharing with someone you may detest and that has very bad personal hygene habits? I could go on but I don't want this to sound like I am sympathetic to prisoners. I am not, but I KNOW that it is not the way you suggest.
Sex God
Quote by firelizard
I would object to being stopped and searched on a whim by a police officer
I hate to say this... but welcome to the world of "stop and search"
I have been thru this for years... and I suspect I will keep going thru this for years to come.....
Quote by firelizard
Prison is no deterrent these days
3 meals a day and the best seat in the house for watching TV on the most up to date equipment available! :shock:
And access to "alternative" substances when they need them so as not to deprive them of their human rights
Don't make me laugh.
When was the last time you were in prison GnV? Unable to eat what you want, unable to pick up the phone and speak to whoever you want to, unable to watch TV, listen to music, have the music that you like played when you wanted, sharing with someone you may detest and that has very bad personal hygene habits? I could go on but I don't want this to sound like I am sympathetic to prisoners. I am not, but I KNOW that it is not the way you suggest.
Its not how you would suggest either I feel. Open prisons are a joke, and thats not listening to the press either.
Its a cushy life where drugs are readily available. Sorry but if a prisoner goes through bloody hard times, I for one dont give a flying toss...they deserve it.
Sex God
Quote by kentswingers777
Prison is no deterrent these days
3 meals a day and the best seat in the house for watching TV on the most up to date equipment available! :shock:
And access to "alternative" substances when they need them so as not to deprive them of their human rights
Don't make me laugh.
When was the last time you were in prison GnV? Unable to eat what you want, unable to pick up the phone and speak to whoever you want to, unable to watch TV, listen to music, have the music that you like played when you wanted, sharing with someone you may detest and that has very bad personal hygene habits? I could go on but I don't want this to sound like I am sympathetic to prisoners. I am not, but I KNOW that it is not the way you suggest.
Its not how you would suggest either I feel. You FEEL or you KNOW Kent? the two things are a world apart. Open prisons are a joke, and thats not listening to the press either. (To my knowledge you don't get put in open prisons for Knife or firearms offenses, which is what this thread is about.)
Its a cushy life where drugs are readily available. Sorry but if a prisoner goes through bloody hard times, I for one dont give a flying toss...they deserve it.
This is where I do differ from you Kent. I DO give a flying toss both about the prisoner and about the victim but I do agree that if given a prison sentence it should match with the crime and truly be a punishment.
Sex God
Quote by cockslut
have we thought also that some religions insist on certain ethnic groups must carry a "knife" would they be included if this came to power? or would they be exempt like they are in not wearing motorcycle helmets?
I'm sorry but they should not be allowed to carry knives....
If the law of the land forbids it then it has to be a blanket ban....
If their religion says they must do then they must find a country that has laws which allow them to do so...
Sex God
Quote by splendid_
if the law meant that people made moral choices that had only a positive impact on the world around them then there would be no..
drugs
domestic violence
homophobia
theft
fraud
burglary
murder
violence
threatening behaviour
speeding
dangerous driving
etc
etc
etc
etc
Ok can you give that to me again? in blonde speak please. Not the list obviously but the first bit 
and shouldnt you be :notes: ?
Sex God
Yep :thumbup: (Thanks Splen xx)
The thing with laws is that only the people that can be bothered to obey them on a particular day at a particular time will do so.
If you ban guns, people will still carry guns and if you ban knive's people will still carry knives.
TM Stormy (Who couldnt be bothered to post )
The thing with laws is that only the people that can be bothered to obey them on a particular day at a particular time will do so.
If you ban guns, people will still carry guns and if you ban knive's people will still carry knives.
TM Stormy (Who couldnt be bothered to post
) 
Sex God
Quote by Stormwalker
We don't, we have a people problem.
:thumbup:
