lesbians & strapons...a question

12 Apr 2007

Quote by Darkfire
Where's the problem in the concept of someone not being attracted to men yet wanting the physical pleasure of penetrative sex????
I am not suggesting strap ons etc are masterbation but purely pointing out that most people enjoy the physical feeling from sexual intercourse.
I have a strange feeling of walking into a storm.

weather forecast says its clear and sunny today :wink:
physical feeling of intercourse/ feeling 'full'/ 'having something inside her', yes, but with regard to the actual thread question, lesbian women who effectively denounce sexual attraction & pleasure (?? or do they??) from men/cock, who then play using cock shaped/ modelled toys and strap-ons .....
ok, so, I still dont get it lol

I'm gonna have to try it & do the research for myself :twisted:
It's not a guys actual cock /girls fanjita that attracts you to them in the first place though, is it?!
You are attracted to the person first, then 'the tools of their trade' next.
As has been said before, if a guy enjoys recieving anal, or having a strapon used on him, it doesn't mean he's gay and likes cocks, he just enjoys the sensation of the toy!
:dunno:
maz xx

12 Apr 2007

Quote by mazandden
It's not a guys actual cock /girls fanjita that attracts you to them in the first place though, is it?!

maz xx

i told you I was wierd! lol

not in the first place, no, but for me personally to play with cock, then yes, its a huge factor :shock: loon

12 Apr 2007

Quote by Darkfire

It's not a guys actual cock /girls fanjita that attracts you to them in the first place though, is it?!

maz xx

i told you I was wierd! lol

not in the first place, no, but for me personally to play with cock, then yes, its a huge factor :shock: loon

Den says when are you coming round?! rolleyes

m x

12 Apr 2007

I had my first strap-on experience a few weeks back, to me is was the way we did it that made it a good experience (me on top) and her hubby then joined us and then mine.. and oh dear I've gone all shy now.. redface

Seriously tho, it clearly was different than being f@cked by a man but for reasons I cannot describe, it's just nice and tender lol

12 Apr 2007

Quote by keeno
Where's the problem in the concept of someone not being attracted to men yet wanting the physical pleasure of penetrative sex????
Over the years my most consistant sexual partner has been my hand. Now I don't fancy my hand and though I have been to the pub and resturants with it I don't think it is a meaningful relationship. My hand is my fuckbuddy.
I am not suggesting strap ons etc are masterbation but purely pointing out that most people enjoy the physical feeling from sexual intercourse.
I have a strange feeling of walking into a storm.

:thumbup: totally agree.. I like to use my toys on myself when I have an urgency that needs to be addressed but much prefer the physical tenderness of being with another person, the kissing the cuddling the stroking... redface

there I go again!

12 Apr 2007

Quote by redpantherman
...I looooove oral and sometimes wish he'd got a cock on his chin to assist, sometimes fingers are just not enough.

Well you did ask! :rascal:
and I thought we were mates....
we'll order one but you have to deliver it personally by using your sat nav....
If you set off now you might make it by christmas.... after having been to 4 different countries... and tried giving it to the people across the road :giggle:

13 Apr 2007

Quote by Darkfire
physical feeling of intercourse/ feeling 'full'/ 'having something inside her', yes, but with regard to the actual thread question, lesbian women who effectively denounce sexual attraction & pleasure (?? or do they??) from men/cock, who then play using cock shaped/ modelled toys and strap-ons .....
ok, so, I still dont get it I'm gonna have to try it & do the research for myself :twisted:

The thread asked about lesbians in porn films, what you are talking about Dark is real lesbians - they are two very different things.
I'm not telling you how to suck eggs here, just thinking out loud. If a woman is a lesbian it's because she doesn't find men attractive. Why would she want anything that resembles a real cock? But that doesn't mean she wouldn't enjoy intercourse and non-phallic dildos.
BUT!!!
It actually isn't as simple as that. I was keeping it in general terms because that's what the question was asking.
Just like with most larger categories of sexual behaviour there are many 'sub-sections' of people that don’t fit into gay/straight pigeon holes.
The question asked about 'lesbians' - but if it had been also about Stone Butches or Femmes or Stone Femmes or Bois etc the question has a much more complex answer.
Femmes are essentially very feminine gay women that fancy and even adore very butch or even trans-women. You also have Stone Femmes that that adore butch women but only like to receive sexually, Stone Femmes tend to be partnered with Stone Butches - Stone Butches are butch 'women' that like to give sexually but not really receive.
Still with me? :lol:
Most Femmes and Butches do play with and enjoy very phallic cocks – you’d be surprised what there is available if you know where to shop. I can't tell you exactly why a Femme who is gay enjoys sucking on the very realistic cumming cock of a Butch as I've only experienced it from the Butches perspective. But it's usually about love/lust and giving the Butch their ultimate pleasure.
There are even more subsections and 'categories' of female to female/transfemale/butch sexuality that would just make this post too long. But if there are anymore questions I'm happy to try and answer them.
Darkfire as you seem very interested in this I will send you the link of a site/forum I'm a member of - I think the threads there are bound to keep you avidly reading for weeks. :lol:

13 Apr 2007

kis i am really intruiged by the sub cattegory thing and stuff, please xpand on it, if people dont mid the threa hijack.
cheers hun
xxx

13 Apr 2007

thanks Kiss :thumbup:

13 Apr 2007

Quote by well_busty_babe
kis i am really intruiged by the sub cattegory thing and stuff, please xpand on it, if people dont mid the threa hijack.
cheers hun
xxx

Hi WBB, my interpretations of the 'sub catergories' are just that, my own experiences and opinions.
I think it would be better (and easier to read! lol

) if I looked to other sources to find the widely accepted point/use of such terms as Boi etc rather than rambling on about my own thoughts and feelings about things.
Butch
Butch is a common nickname, particularly in the 19th and 20th centuries. It also refers to a woman, usually a lesbian, who self-identifies as such or whose appearance and/or mannerisms are more masculine than would be considered "tomboyish" particularly if she usually takes the butch role in a butch and femme relationship.
Femme
Slang for a feminine lesbian, and especially one who is attracted to masculine (or butch) lesbians.
Lipstick Lesbian
A lipstick lesbian is a slang term for a feminine homosexual woman who is attracted to another feminine woman, rather than a lesbian who is attracted to a more masculine woman.
Boi
It may also refer to a female-born or female-bodied person—sometimes transsexual, transgendered, or intersexed, sometimes not—who generally does not identify as, or only partially identifies as feminine, female, a girl, or a woman, although some 'bois' identify as one or more of these. Bois almost always identify as lesbians, dykes, or queers; many are also genderqueer or practice genderfuck. Bois can prefer a range of pronouns, including 'he', 'she', or gender-neutral pronouns.
Stone Femme
Stone femme has been used to describe several different kinds of femme (feminine) identities, sometimes within a broader identity or culture. Stone femme is used to describe a femme who is sexually receptive or who wishes not to touch the genitals of her partner. (There are it seems quite a few Stone Femmes on SH - they just didn't know that was the term fot it! :lol: :wink)
Stone Butch
A Stone Butch is a female-bodied person who is strongly masculine in character and dress, who tops her partners sexually (and sometimes emotionally), and who does not wish to be touched genitally. Not all stone butches identify in female terms, some are known to identify with male pronouns, and many stone butches - not all, but many - do not identify themselves with lesbian or within the lesbian community.
Butch/Femme relationship.
Butch and femme (french term for woman) are terms often used in the lesbian and gay subcultures to describe a person's approximate adherence to traditional masculine and feminine gender roles respectively, within a same-sex relationship, or to describe an individual generally. Femme is also frequently used in the transgender community.
Soft Butch
A soft butch is a lesbian, or sometimes a straight woman, who exhibits some stereotypical butch lesbian traits without fitting the masculine stereotype associated with butch lesbians. These traits may or may not include short hair, clothing that was designed for men, and masculine mannerisms and behaviors. Soft butches generally appear androgynous, rather than adhering to strictly feminine or masculine norms. In the spectrum of gender expression among lesbians, a soft butch lies in between a lipstick lesbian and a butch lesbian.
You see that now sexually there are no right or wrong answers with lesbians.
Now just don't ask me about Butches who Bottom! :lol:

13 Apr 2007

that was really interesting, the stone butch and stone femme are what really intruige me, i might do some research on it. thanks kiss

13 Apr 2007

Quote by well_busty_babe
that was really interesting, the stone butch and stone femme are what really intruige me, i might do some research on it. thanks kiss

You are welcome.
At the end of the day they are just labels for those who want/need one.
Feck knows what I am! Stone Butch Transwhatsit changing into a thingamy bob! lol

I have met some females who are eager to take but don't feel they wish to reciprocate, which suits me and is a situation I actively seek out.
But if I told them they were a Stone Femme they would freak out because it's me applying the label when it's not needed! :lol2:

13 Apr 2007

Quote by Kiss
I have met some females who are eager to take but don't feel they wish to reciprocate, which suits me and is a situation I actively seek out.

Bugger!

13 Apr 2007

Vaginas were made to accomodate penises. Penises were made to fit vaginas.
Do you know what, I've completely lost my train of thought 'coz i've just remembered the thread I woke up thinking about in the early hours.
If anyone can possibly second guess where I was going, feel free :giggle:
loon

13 Apr 2007

Quote by winchwench
Vaginas were made to accomodate penises. Penises were made to fit vaginas.
Do you know what, I've completely lost my train of thought 'coz i've just remembered the thread I woke up thinking about in the early hours.
If anyone can possibly second guess where I was going, feel free :giggle:

I don't wanna second guess where your goin wifey...
Why don't I just tell ya where your gonna get it! :twisted:

13 Apr 2007

Quote by well_busty_babe
that was really interesting, the stone butch and stone femme are what really intruige me, i might do some research on it. thanks kiss

You might want to read Stone Butch Blues by Leslie Feinberg - very interesting!

14 Apr 2007

Quote by triker69uk
........some of the reason must be the aversion to the male member ( this is my mindset so please dont take it wrongly).......

Just had to pick up on this comment in particular really. If we are talking about 'real' lesbians (I hate that term btw but its too late to think of a better one for it) its nothing to do with aversion to cock at all. Its to do with being attracted to women.
I know that might seem like a really obvious statement to most but I'm not a lesbian because I don't like cock, its an important distinction to make as far as I'm concerned. Its just a non-attraction if you see what I mean.
The other thing to consider that its then just an aversion to a phallus attached to a man. When we use our strap on I know that its Em on the other end of it whatever we are doing at the time. The sex is about us, not the dildo, not about our sexuality as such or the sexual politics of what we do, its just about the people involved and the physical sensation.
As Kiss has pointed out as well though, in using a strap on there are certain dynamics that can come into play depending on your relationship with whoever you are having sex with. The butch/femme siutation and its derivatives are the biggest one but it can permeate down as far as simple things like role play and fantasy, really disposable situations that have no impact on the everyday-ness of a relationship but appear to the outside to have some serious meaning or bearing if you start to critically analyze the toys being used.
It is fair to say that most lesbians I know and have known only use the plain unveined dildos, mainly one of the lesbian targeted silicone ones. This is because its not meant to replace or replicate a real cock, just to be of a suitable shape for the purpose for which it is intended - not withstanding the fact that they can look really pretty cool

I actually took part in some market research for someone who was wanting to launch a dildo onto the market specifically marketed for filling with sperm for self-inseminations - the dynamics of that would be a real melonbender for a lot of lesbians, I think thats why it never really took off :shock: wink

.
I hope some of this makes sense - it is Friday and it is late :wink:
(and Kiss, how could you not mention the diesel dykes :inlove: :twisted: :twisted:, they know all the good truck stops lol

)

14 Apr 2007

Quote by lavabubble
... its nothing to do with aversion to cock at all. Its to do with being attracted to women...
I know that might seem like a really obvious statement to most but I'm not a lesbian because I don't like cock, its an important distinction to make as far as I'm concerned. Its just a non-attraction if you see what I mean.
The other thing to consider that its then just an aversion to a phallus attached to a man.
It is fair to say that most lesbians I know and have known only use the plain unveined dildos, mainly one of the lesbian targeted silicone ones. This is because its not meant to replace or replicate a real cock, just to be of a suitable shape for the purpose for which it is intended - not withstanding the fact that they can look really pretty
I hope some of this makes sense - it is Friday and it is late

sorry to chop up your post Bubbles ( lol

) but these points particularly answer my questions, and along with Kiss's words of wisdom, makes perfect sense! thankyou! - one of the things I love about this forum, if you're willing to admit you cant get your head around something, there'll always be people who'll respond and give you the answers :thumbup:

(and Kiss, how could you not mention the diesel dykes :inlove: :twisted: :twisted:, they know all the good truck stops :lol: )

hope Dammy doesnt see this this morning, you'll make him all excited :quiver: rotflmao

14 Apr 2007

this may be me being a little bit insensitive, but i dont mean to be. but feel free to not ansew if you dont want to.
with the "stone" femme and butch thing, does the butch get any PHYSICAL pleasure? i know that obviously you get the emotional pleasure and the close feeling, but if the femme does not touch you in a sexual way, how do you get sexual satisfaction? i really am interested in this, i have been googling and everything.
from what i have read now ( but i may be not understanding i guess) the stone fem is going to be getting sexual pleasure and seems to be getting a whale of a time lol.
is it because the emotional feeling of giving is more important than the sexual satisfaction for a stone butch? and for the stone fem, is it a feeling that they are atracted to the person, but are not atracted to females? if that makes sense!
i know what i am trying to ask, but it is not coming across well in words.

14 Apr 2007

Lavabubble said:

It is fair to say that most lesbians I know and have known only use the plain unveined dildos, mainly one of the lesbian targeted silicone ones. This is because its not meant to replace or replicate a real cock, just to be of a suitable shape for the purpose for which it is intended - not withstanding the fact that they can look really pretty icon_

Thats what I was getting at! rotflmao

14 Apr 2007

Quote by celestria
I think it basically all comes down to enjoying the "filled" sensation when you're being played with. I looooove oral and sometimes wish he'd got a cock on his chin to assist, sometimes fingers are just not enough.

Are you saying that you'd like him to be more of a dickhead??

Quote by Kiss
Why don't men just sit down to pee and save pissing on the toilet and surrounding area?

It's the sudden cold sensation when the end of your cock dips into the water in the bowl .............. (what do you mean, I'm exaggerating?? confused

)

14 Apr 2007

Lavabubble! kiss

What a great post, I don't feel I could have made the great points you made because I don't see myself as a true lesbian. There doesn't seem to be any label for me right now. lol

Stone Butch is the closest for now.
Sorry I missed off 'Diesel ' - I didn't post all possible 'types', just the ones that I felt where the label was not only about a style of dress or appearance or job etc but labels that were also to do with sexual activity. Did that actually make sense? :lol:

Quote by well_busty_babe
this may be me being a little bit insensitive, but i dont mean to be. but feel free to not ansew if you dont want to.
with the "stone" femme and butch thing, does the butch get any PHYSICAL pleasure? i know that obviously you get the emotional pleasure and the close feeling, but if the femme does not touch you in a sexual way, how do you get sexual satisfaction? i really am interested in this, i have been googling and everything.
from what i have read now ( but i may be not understanding i guess) the stone fem is going to be getting sexual pleasure and seems to be getting a whale of a time lol.
is it because the emotional feeling of giving is more important than the sexual satisfaction for a stone butch? and for the stone fem, is it a feeling that they are atracted to the person, but are not atracted to females? if that makes sense!
i know what i am trying to ask, but it is not coming across well in words.

I don't think your questions are insensitive at all WBB. I don't identify 100% as Stone Butch but it's the only 'label' that really fits right now.
It's not something I really want to go into in the forum right now so I'll send you a PM.
All I can say is that even though I don't really like to be touched I enjoy a very full and satisfying sex life. wink

14 Apr 2007

Strap-on or no strap-on, as a wizened old heterosexual, I cannot imagine anything more erotic or exciting than watching two girls make love to each other ... and if you want a big bed to do it on ... and a tasty meal afterwards ...
... just give me call!!! biggrin

14 Apr 2007

This is a really interesting thread. I love that there is still so much I can learn on here.
Thank you kiss

Jas
XXX

14 Apr 2007

I never knew you had some many labels/types I'm learning too.

14 Apr 2007

Just wanted to mention that I was glad that my post made some sense, it was late and the thought process was a little fuzzy lol

!!

Quote by well_busty_babe
this may be me being a little bit insensitive, but i dont mean to be. but feel free to not ansew if you dont want to.
with the "stone" femme and butch thing, does the butch get any PHYSICAL pleasure? i know that obviously you get the emotional pleasure and the close feeling, but if the femme does not touch you in a sexual way, how do you get sexual satisfaction? i really am interested in this, i have been googling and everything.
from what i have read now ( but i may be not understanding i guess) the stone fem is going to be getting sexual pleasure and seems to be getting a whale of a time lol.
is it because the emotional feeling of giving is more important than the sexual satisfaction for a stone butch? and for the stone fem, is it a feeling that they are atracted to the person, but are not atracted to females? if that makes sense!
i know what i am trying to ask, but it is not coming across well in words.

It's a difficult thing to explain WBB, and to be honest unless you look at American sites you are not likely to find a lot of info about stone behaviour as its not really discussed on UK boards and the communities are not as prominent here.
The way I see it is that stone behaviour is powered by psychological feeling. It can be women who have issues with their image, their sexuality, their gender assignment or its just what does it for them - i.e. who they are. The way I then see it is that as it exists as a state of mind then the body doesn't need the sexual gratification it would ordinarily need/seek if someone was in a reciprocal sexual relationship.
The perception I have is that a lot of (stone)butch/(stone)femme relationships do mimic traditional gender roles, an ex of mine (a high femme) got involved with a butch as close to the dictionary definition of stone as I've ever met. As my ex had been in a lot of nasty relationships she basically wanted someone to protect her (and was quite open about it after a few weeks of us being together)- I wanted an equal and she wanted to be looked after in a way that I couldn't deal with - I didn't want the 'little lady at home with the tea ready' thing, but as far as I know she's still happy with the other woman now.
Its a bizarre thing really, and I'm well aware that it would come across that the stonefemme really wants to be living with a man even though that isn't the case. The gender of their partner is still important.
I suppose its the bit of a lot of lesbian relationships that is 'missing' if you like. Lesbians in my experience tend to have interdependent relationships - i.e. we both go downstairs if we think there's a burglar wink

whereas the butch (stone or otherwise) generally perceives theselves as the protector of the femme.
I am going to stop now as I don't know if this is still on track or if I'm rambling!!!

15 Apr 2007

Quote by lavabubble
Just wanted to mention that I was glad that my post made some sense, it was late and the thought process was a little fuzzy !!
this may be me being a little bit insensitive, but i dont mean to be. but feel free to not ansew if you dont want to.
with the "stone" femme and butch thing, does the butch get any PHYSICAL pleasure? i know that obviously you get the emotional pleasure and the close feeling, but if the femme does not touch you in a sexual way, how do you get sexual satisfaction? i really am interested in this, i have been googling and everything.
from what i have read now ( but i may be not understanding i guess) the stone fem is going to be getting sexual pleasure and seems to be getting a whale of a time lol.
is it because the emotional feeling of giving is more important than the sexual satisfaction for a stone butch? and for the stone fem, is it a feeling that they are atracted to the person, but are not atracted to females? if that makes sense!
i know what i am trying to ask, but it is not coming across well in words.

It's a difficult thing to explain WBB, and to be honest unless you look at American sites you are not likely to find a lot of info about stone behaviour as its not really discussed on UK boards and the communities are not as prominent here.
The way I see it is that stone behaviour is powered by psychological feeling. It can be women who have issues with their image, their sexuality, their gender assignment or its just what does it for them - i.e. who they are. The way I then see it is that as it exists as a state of mind then the body doesn't need the sexual gratification it would ordinarily need/seek if someone was in a reciprocal sexual relationship.
The perception I have is that a lot of (stone)butch/(stone)femme relationships do mimic traditional gender roles, an ex of mine (a high femme) got involved with a butch as close to the dictionary definition of stone as I've ever met. As my ex had been in a lot of nasty relationships she basically wanted someone to protect her (and was quite open about it after a few weeks of us being together)- I wanted an equal and she wanted to be looked after in a way that I couldn't deal with - I didn't want the 'little lady at home with the tea ready' thing, but as far as I know she's still happy with the other woman now.
Its a bizarre thing really, and I'm well aware that it would come across that the stonefemme really wants to be living with a man even though that isn't the case. The gender of their partner is still important.
I suppose its the bit of a lot of lesbian relationships that is 'missing' if you like. Lesbians in my experience tend to have interdependent relationships - i.e. we both go downstairs if we think there's a burglar wink

whereas the butch (stone or otherwise) generally perceives theselves as the protector of the femme.
I am going to stop now as I don't know if this is still on track or if I'm rambling!!!
not rambling at all, between your point of view and kiss.s explanations, i feel like i am understanding now.
my thoughts are that it seems to be about people getting what THEY want out of a relationship/sexual encounter, rather than what society expects them to get.
cant be anything wrong in that!
thanks for taking the time to explain.
WBB ( who must be a femme - cos she would NEVER go downstairs to catch the burglar! :lol: )
xxxxxxxxxxxxx

15 Apr 2007

Quote by lavabubble
I suppose its the bit of a lot of lesbian relationships that is 'missing' if you like. Lesbians in my experience tend to have interdependent relationships - i.e. we both go downstairs if we think there's a burglar whereas the butch (stone or otherwise) generally perceives theselves as the protector of the femme.
I am going to stop now as I don't know if this is still on track or if I'm rambling!!!

Sorry to chop your post up, as the rest of your post was good too, I just wanted to comment on this bit.
That's a big thing for me. I enjoy the stereo typical Male/Female gender roles. I like to be the provider and protector and to look after my partner etc.
Mrs Kiss is a strong woman who is fiercely independent and 10 years my senior, but over the years she has relinquished certain jobs to me as she never was very good with a power drill or plumbing etc. lol

15 Apr 2007

Quote by Kiss
...she never was very good with a power drill or plumbing etc.

See they're the only thing kinds of things we need a man for - we're far too busy listening to our KD Lang cd's and watching Ellen's chat show to plug the drill in :lol: :P

16 Apr 2007

Quote by lavabubble
...she never was very good with a power drill or plumbing etc.

See they're the only thing kinds of things we need a man for - we're far too busy listening to our KD Lang cd's and watching Ellen's chat show to plug the drill in :lol: :P

:rotflmao: :rotflmao:
I'm usually playing 'Constant Craving' on my guitar every five minutes! wink

Seriously though Mrs Kiss loves Ellen and I'm SO in her good books at the moment as I recently bought all the Ellen episodes season 1 to 5 on DVD from America.
We have a DVD player in the kitchen and I want Mrs Kiss to enjoy all that cooking and washing up that it's her duty to do while I fix the car or summint!
biggrin