Licensing Laws and Swingers Clubs

28 Nov 2005

Club Xtasia has applied for and been granted a drinks licence under the new licencing law which has just come into force, so one can assume that at some point in the future the bring your own bottle system will change there.
What's happened at other clubs? Have any other clubs been granted drinks licences? Or, have any clubs had "other" problems with complying with the new laws? Or is your local club not licenced at all?
I wonder what impact this new law is going ot have (if any) and I'd also be grateful if someone with more legal knowledge can explain why previously unlicenced private members clubs have now needed to obtain licences even if they don't sell alcohol. Colour me confused on that one.

28 Nov 2005

knowing the way the law is i would say no not to go down that line
the police and councils will have more access and can and will use that to close clubs
remember swinging clubs are on the margins of society and not accepted by authoritys

28 Nov 2005

Since putting my original post up, I've been doing a bit of research of my own...

Quote by
The Act establishes a single integrated scheme for licensing premises, which are used for the supply of alcohol, to provide regulated entertainment or to provide late night refreshment. Permission to carry on some or all of these licensable activities will now be contained in a single licence â€“ the premises licence, and the Act has accordingly swept away considerable red tape at a stroke.

So the way that reads, if you serve any "refreshments" (incl water and soft drinks) or you provide entertainments (e.g. music) then you ought to have no choice but to get a new licence.
Fringes of the law or not, swinging will either be inside of the law if you are in a licenced club, or outside of the law if the club is not licenced. Unless of course the unlicenced club is deadly silent and does not serve any food or drinks of any sort.

Quote by
Clubs which meet specified criteria set out in the 2003 Act are known as 'qualifying clubs' and the authority under which they may supply alcohol and conduct other 'qualifying club activities' from their premises is a club premises certificate issued by the licensing authority. The grant of a club premises certificate means that a club is entitled to certain benefits, ... There are also more limited rights of entry for the police and other authorised persons, as the premises are considered private and not generally open to the public.

So, as a Private Members Club, privacy is more assured than if you are in a bootleg club that isn't licenced, where I suspect the Police will have much more of an interest in entering.
Unless I read things wrongly...

28 Nov 2005

The laws that are now being enforced give the police more powers to enter a club. I had this disscussion with the owner of the last place I DJed at. He was well miffed. It works that any group of people of two or more singing you need an entertainments licence.
The old law meant that if you had a group on of up to 3 people you didnt need a licence. So small pubs only needed a drinks licence not the full hit entertainments licence. This dosent just affect sounds and beer once you go past the threshold you need other levels within the pub to be brought up to level to get your licence.
Also once that licence is granted you almost waive your right to stop people entering the premises. Or at least thats what I understand. So if the coppers want to come in to a clun for a quick blimp they can....

28 Nov 2005

Quote by Dune
The laws that are now being enforced give the police more powers to enter a club.

See the second quote in my previous post - the law draws a line between commercial night clubs and Private Members Clubs...or so it seems to me...

Quote by Dune
It works that any group of people of two or more singing you need an entertainments licence.
The old law meant that if you had a group on of up to 3 people you didnt need a licence. So small pubs only needed a drinks licence not the full hit entertainments licence.

Not sure about singing. Xtasia has always had a DJ and a dancefloor packed with people dancing, so I assume they would nave needed one of those PRS licences in any case, plus whatever entertainments licence that the Council would have wanted, so one licence for another seems to be the case here.

Quote by Dune
Also once that licence is granted you almost waive your right to stop people entering the premises.

Again see my comment about Private Members Clubs, and I can't see a law being passed that makes it impossible for owners to make responsible decisions on who to allow entrance to a premises.

Quote by Dune
So if the coppers want to come in to a clun for a quick blimp they can....

eh? Lost in dialect translation I'm afraid confused

28 Nov 2005

Quote by leprechaun
knowing the way the law is i would say no not to go down that line
the police and councils will have more access and can and will use that to close clubs
remember swinging clubs are on the margins of society and not accepted by authoritys

Leps has said it all here............. some enlightened authorities are allowing swinging clubs to thrive (notably Sheffield) whilst others have been known to force clubs out of business.
Point is as the law stands (not the new licencing laws), technically anyone running a club can be done for running a disorderly house (even though prostitution is not involved)... the new laws will do nothing to change this.
Doesn't apply to gay clubs though cos they are protected under gay rights laws.

28 Nov 2005

Quote by Him'nHer
some enlightened authorities are allowing swinging clubs to thrive (notably Sheffield) whilst others have been known to force clubs out of business.

I suppose as Xtasia have been granted an Alcohol licence when they never had one in the past, it means that their local authority is also "enlightened".
So what's the other point that you are making? That other swinging clubs should go underground again, ignore the law and NOT be licenced?
Surely this illegal approach to running a swingers club would have other major impacts like invalidating Public Liability Insurance and other issues concerning the Health & Safety of people attending the clubs won't it?

28 Nov 2005

Or go the whole hog and apply for a drinks licence?

28 Nov 2005

Quote by Jay
Or go the whole hog and apply for a drinks licence?

Which brings me round to one of my original questions...what are other clubs doing? Who is going (drinks) licenced? Be silly to turn up there with a bag full of cans/bottles if you didn't know that you can't drink them because booze is on sale at the bar.

28 Nov 2005

Quote by partyman
some enlightened authorities are allowing swinging clubs to thrive (notably Sheffield) whilst others have been known to force clubs out of business.

I suppose as Xtasia have been granted an Alcohol licence when they never had one in the past, it means that their local authority is also "enlightened".
So what's the other point that you are making? That other swinging clubs should go underground again, ignore the law and NOT be licenced?
Surely this illegal approach to running a swingers club would have other major impacts like invalidating Public Liability Insurance and other issues concerning the Health & Safety of people attending the clubs won't it?
Never said it was "illegal" all I said was some local authorities come down heavy on swinging clubs whilst others do not. And yestechnically the disorderly house bit is correct. One club in wales closed because the owner got hit by a "heavy" local authority and ended up with a Â£2000 fine for allowing swinging activities to take place in his club.
All that is happening is that all clubs will now have to have a licence be it for entertainment, alcohol, or other refreshment. Once licenced the local authorities could if they so wish have greater access to what goes on inside.

28 Nov 2005

Quote by Him'nHer
Never said it was "illegal" all I said was some local authorities come down heavy on swinging clubs whilst others do not.

Ahh, my initial reading of Leps's post was that he recommended not going down the line of getting a licence. Not sure now if he means a drinks licence or just an ordinary licence.
To be legal a club will have to get one of the licences, even if NOT a drinks licence. And I'm not sure how little difference there now is between the Police's or the Councils acces to a club if it has just a Premises Licence or if it has a Drinks Licence, under the new law.
I suppose a lot will depend on "real world" factors like how good your relationship with the local authorities and local cop shop are and if your club has had cause to give aggravation to the Police in the past.

28 Nov 2005

Quote by partyman
Never said it was "illegal" all I said was some local authorities come down heavy on swinging clubs whilst others do not.

Ahh, my initial reading of Leps's post was that he recommended not going down the line of getting a licence. Not sure now if he means a drinks licence or just an ordinary licence.
To be legal a club will have to get one of the licences, even if NOT a drinks licence. And I'm not sure how little difference there now is between the Police's or the Councils acces to a club if it has just a Premises Licence or if it has a Drinks Licence, under the new law.
I suppose a lot will depend on "real world" factors like how good your relationship with the local authorities and local cop shop are and if your club has had cause to give aggravation to the Police in the past.
Yes sorry partyman, I should've edited out the first line of Leps post before quoting him. I am commenting on the attitude of some local authorities, not the rights or wrongs of not licencing.