Love?

17 Jan 2006

Ive been a bit confused with all of this since the beginning....
After your post... i asked you a Q... and your answer was...
Am i right in thinking ur in the scene and your wife doesn't know??
She swings I swing, but not together. We talk about it but not what we have done. She know, she knows I know. The rules seem to have built themselves over the years. She prefers not to know my what, who, where, when. I would like to swing together, we respect each other wishes.
See these bits are what confuses me....

Quote by
She swings I swing, but not together. We talk about it but not what we have done.

And then you continue to say...

Quote by
She know, she knows I know

Well yes... you should do, you say you talk about it confused

Quote by
She prefers not to know my what, who, where, when.

But you said you talk about it dunno

17 Jan 2006

Quote by Lilmiss
Any matrix fans will tell you that love is a word and the semantics of the definition is based on personal experience and perception. We define our own world from our own childhood experiences and the subliminal conditioning that society exposes us to, however, we are also influenced by a host of other sources such as books, films, friends, ex partners and so on. . The definition of love varies according to the culture, belief system (if any), customs, and social etiquette. For example in some countries a man can have x amount of wifes etc whlst in another the same man would be considered a bigomist. Acceptance of the norm or questioning it would bring you closer to discovering who you are and what you expect from yourself and others.
Love is just a word; what really matters is the meaning that we give by definition based on your personal experience. With love comes expectations, illusions, dreams, comfort, reassurance, hurt, pain etc.
Whilst I am still a virgin to the swinging scene. Transactional Analysis may offer some of the answers to the question initially posted here. Most couples who are into the swininging scene have reached a state of adult consent that brings into play "I am OK You are OK". Isaac Newton would argue that the sum derived from a "positive number" and "a negative number" equals a "negative number". So for a couple to enjoy the swinging scene both partners would have to be in agreement based on the law of action and consequences derived from their personal values, and their definition of love which may differ anyone elses definition.
Love in my opinion is a child like emotion that is experienced through our childhood giving us our sense of worth and self esteem. So the dynamic of two child like personilities giving each other consent to be naughty can also be derived from transactional analysis. As humans we evolve and we make choices that would appear to be the right ones at the time based on our circumstances, environment etc. However, if at any point you begin to question the choices you've made then doubt might just creep in and then there is a danger that you could start to project your doubts on to your partner and that's when things can get very tricky.
As for one group of people with a "label" loving more than or less than another group is pure nonsense..I am afraid that we will never know the answer to that one because it is human nature to feel one thing and reveal a series of smoke screens to the world. Who would question the old couple who are not swingers but have just celebrated 40 years of marriage, and they still walk down the beach hand in hand. Have they loved less or more than a couple who happen to be swingers....That would depend on the dynamics of the relationship. Which brings me to my final point in that "relationship" is yet another word that gives meaning to a set of protocols that differ from couple to couple and does not necessarily involve "love" as habitual conditioning can also be a symptom of being in denial that one's relationship has passed it's sell by date but we continue to accomodate and even agree to certain terms that may not be favourable because of our fear of the unknown

Well.... i obviously haven't watched matrix!!!
WTF.... is all that about.....? Nobody has ask what's the definition of LOVE or what it mean....He asked......
So i ask myself is it that people who swing do not love, have not found love, or do they love more.?
Lets deconstruct the above sentence shall we Lilmiss...in the first instance the person is asking themselves if people who swing love, have found love or they love more? My point being in the "WTF" I wrote is that everybody has a different perception of what love is and considering that LOVE is the subject of the question in relation to swingers. Thus we should begin to answer the question by analysing what is meant by the word LOVE. The meaning of the word means different things to different people based on our own experience and perception so therefore the replies would differ depending on who you are and what your outlook is on the subject or would you disagree with that?
For example leyla/Snesh made a very concise definition of her experience and definition of love within the context of her relationship. A set of protocols and I would imagine Adult conversation has enabled them both to enjoy sex with third parties, based on trust, loyalty, etc. Whilst this might work for Snesh....stating the obvious I know...it might not work for everyone else if you are in a relationship then you need to define what love means. From the outset I kind of figured that the guy who posed the question is not really asking us, he is asking himself, so might there be a slight element of doubt? Who knows?
As for the Matrix...well I guess that I didn't need to add that on but if you've watched the bit with the trainman you may have understood what I was implying.

23 Jan 2006

Quote by banlwales
I just found myself writing love in another thread, so I am starting this one.
I like thinking about my wife have fun, no not just that all kinds of fun.
So i ask myself is it that people who swing do not love, have not found love, or do they love more.
I think I love my wife because I can see her having fun with out me. I do not own her, I love her.
so here I am, that's what I think.....What do you think?

I think you shouldn't put sex and love in the same basket.
They are separate entities that meet up every now and again.
I know my memory is fading but I definately remember swinging as a sex thing.
rolleyes

true but sometimes they meet and when they do it's wonderful.

23 Jan 2006

Quote by Lilmiss
Any matrix fans will tell you that love is a word and the semantics of the definition is based on personal experience and perception. We define our own world from our own childhood experiences and the subliminal conditioning that society exposes us to, however, we are also influenced by a host of other sources such as books, films, friends, ex partners and so on. . The definition of love varies according to the culture, belief system (if any), customs, and social etiquette. For example in some countries a man can have x amount of wifes etc whlst in another the same man would be considered a bigomist. Acceptance of the norm or questioning it would bring you closer to discovering who you are and what you expect from yourself and others.
Love is just a word; what really matters is the meaning that we give by definition based on your personal experience. With love comes expectations, illusions, dreams, comfort, reassurance, hurt, pain etc.
Whilst I am still a virgin to the swinging scene. Transactional Analysis may offer some of the answers to the question initially posted here. Most couples who are into the swininging scene have reached a state of adult consent that brings into play "I am OK You are OK". Isaac Newton would argue that the sum derived from a "positive number" and "a negative number" equals a "negative number". So for a couple to enjoy the swinging scene both partners would have to be in agreement based on the law of action and consequences derived from their personal values, and their definition of love which may differ anyone elses definition.
Love in my opinion is a child like emotion that is experienced through our childhood giving us our sense of worth and self esteem. So the dynamic of two child like personilities giving each other consent to be naughty can also be derived from transactional analysis. As humans we evolve and we make choices that would appear to be the right ones at the time based on our circumstances, environment etc. However, if at any point you begin to question the choices you've made then doubt might just creep in and then there is a danger that you could start to project your doubts on to your partner and that's when things can get very tricky.
As for one group of people with a "label" loving more than or less than another group is pure nonsense..I am afraid that we will never know the answer to that one because it is human nature to feel one thing and reveal a series of smoke screens to the world. Who would question the old couple who are not swingers but have just celebrated 40 years of marriage, and they still walk down the beach hand in hand. Have they loved less or more than a couple who happen to be swingers....That would depend on the dynamics of the relationship. Which brings me to my final point in that "relationship" is yet another word that gives meaning to a set of protocols that differ from couple to couple and does not necessarily involve "love" as habitual conditioning can also be a symptom of being in denial that one's relationship has passed it's sell by date but we continue to accomodate and even agree to certain terms that may not be favourable because of our fear of the unknown

Well.... i obviously haven't watched matrix!!!
WTF.... is all that about.....? Nobody has ask what's the definition of LOVE or what it mean....He asked......
So i ask myself is it that people who swing do not love, have not found love, or do they love more.?
now we do agree about some thing

23 Jan 2006

jesus what scares me is when people consider a hollywood movie to be a religion and lifestyle guide.......matrix my arse...... lol

25 Jan 2006

OMG this all got very deep and complex
Love is a very dificult subject and not easy to define or put into words
There is all types of love and levels of love
All i know is i love sex
or do I just need it and mistake need for love
think im getting a head ache now
time to lie down
Bi-Guy-Notts

25 Jan 2006

Quote by
I just found myself writing love in another thread, so I am starting this one.
I like thinking about my wife have fun, no not just that all kinds of fun.
So i ask myself is it that people who swing do not love, have not found love, or do they love more.
I think I love my wife because I can see her having fun with out me. I do not own her, I love her.
so here I am, that's what I think.....What do you think?

I think you shouldn't put sex and love in the same basket.
They are separate entities that meet up every now and again.
I know my memory is fading but I definately remember swinging as a sex thing.
rolleyes

true but sometimes they meet and when they do it's wonderful.
erm...maybe, but I love my dogs and, erm, well, erm...i'm just not going there..!!!!

26 Jan 2006

Quote by Lilmiss
Ive been a bit confused with all of this since the beginning....
After your post... i asked you a Q... and your answer was...
Am i right in thinking ur in the scene and your wife doesn't know??

She swings I swing, but not together. We talk about it but not what we have done. She know, she knows I know. The rules seem to have built themselves over the years. She prefers not to know my what, who, where, when. I would like to swing together, we respect each other wishes.
See these bits are what confuses me....

Quote by
She swings I swing, but not together. We talk about it but not what we have done.

And then you continue to say...

Quote by
She know, she knows I know

Well yes... you should do, you say you talk about it confused

Quote by
She prefers not to know my what, who, where, when.

But you said you talk about it dunno

OK , we have talked about swinging, my wife will not talk about what she and I have done, she will not go swinging with me. She even refuses to talk about me finding what a guy left behind.
..........and I would like to go to a party with her..........does that tell you how much we love?
No it does not does it not. Love is in the head a concept without physical form which we all struggle to understand.

26 Jan 2006

Quote by easyease
jesus what scares me is when people consider a hollywood movie to be a religion and lifestyle guide.......matrix my arse......

So is 'Hollywood the opium of the people'

26 Jan 2006

Quote by easyease
jesus what scares me is when people consider a hollywood movie to be a religion and lifestyle guide.......matrix my arse......

Have you seen Logan's Run. Not the same I know.

26 Jan 2006

Quote by easyease
jesus what scares me is when people consider a hollywood movie to be a religion and lifestyle guide.......matrix my arse......

Hmmm! If you can ignore the violance in the film you will note that the trilogy makes consistent references to Eastern/Greek/and Bhuddist philosophies; in one or more of the scenes love and karma are two of many subjects that the film deals and that was my point of reference on the earlier thread. I can assure you that the Matrix isn't my lifestyle and/or religion so don't be scared....however you are entitled to your opinion easyease but I can assure you that an extremist evangelical preacher in the middle of OHIO would probably have something similar to say about the swinging lifestyle....so it really depends on your view of the world based on what you know and how you understand our individual "reality" which is often based on knowledge acquired from social conditioning and subliminal messages that bombard us each and every day. We then create our own experience within our own virtual world and environment.... so on this occassion lets agree to differ for in my opinion which is just as valid as yours the same logic of reality applies to love amongst other things, hence, why I drew an anology from the Matrix film(s)..... but please don't be afraid. I am not trying to convert you...not yet anyway!!
Maybe it's time for you to choose which pill to take either the blue pill or the red pill?

26 Jan 2006

Quote by migsymalone
jesus what scares me is when people consider a hollywood movie to be a religion and lifestyle guide.......matrix my arse......

Hmmm! If you can ignore the violance in the film you will note that the trilogy makes consistent references to Eastern/Greek/and Bhuddist philosophies; in one or more of the scenes love and karma are two of many subjects that the film deals with and that was my point of reference. I can assure you that the Matrix isn't my lifestyle and/or religion so don't be scared....however you are entitled to your opinion easyease but I can assure you that an extremist evangelical preacher in the middle of OHIO would probably have something similar to say about the swinging lifestyle....so it really depends on where abouts you stand and what your view of the world depending on what you know and how you understand "reality" based on knowledge and experience of your world and environment.... so on this occassion lets agree to differ ..... but please don't be afraid..."The Matrix is everywhere"
Maybe it's time for you to choose which pill you will take the blue pill or the red pill?
We are the sum of our experience, we can be no more, but you still have self determination..
Remember you are a part of the matrix, you affect the matrix, you are affected by the 's the net of life not the thing in the film, which I never intend to see. Not my thing.

26 Jan 2006

Quote by banlwales
Well....how did you manage to write all that without getting "auto-logged-out"
well done..!!

cut & paste?

26 Jan 2006

Quote by migsymalone
jesus what scares me is when people consider a hollywood movie to be a religion and lifestyle guide.......matrix my arse......

Hmmm! If you can ignore the violance in the film you will note that the trilogy makes consistent references to Eastern/Greek/and Bhuddist philosophies; in one or more of the scenes love and karma are two of many subjects that the film deals and that was my point of reference on the earlier thread. I can assure you that the Matrix isn't my lifestyle and/or religion so don't be scared....however you are entitled to your opinion easyease but I can assure you that an extremist evangelical preacher in the middle of OHIO would probably have something similar to say about the swinging lifestyle....so it really depends on your view of the world based on what you know and how you understand our individual "reality" which is often based on knowledge acquired from social conditioning and subliminal messages that bombard us each and every day. We then create our own experience within our own virtual world and environment.... so on this occassion lets agree to differ for in my opinion which is just as valid as yours the same logic of reality applies to love amongst other things, hence, why I drew an anology from the Matrix film(s)..... but please don't be afraid. I am not trying to convert you...not yet anyway!!
Maybe it's time for you to choose which pill to take either the blue pill or the red pill?
karma, kismet or destiny,
which do you mean, man makes his own karma in past action, destiny is determined for us by the three woman spinning.
Do we have choice over our end or not. Do we just determine the colour while fate determines the shape.
Which of the world's philosophies do you follow or do you pick a bit from here and another from there. How can you choose a bit from there when translating it, the word into English it changes the meaning so much.

28 Jan 2006

Quote by
jesus what scares me is when people consider a hollywood movie to be a religion and lifestyle guide.......matrix my arse......

Hmmm! If you can ignore the violance in the film you will note that the trilogy makes consistent references to Eastern/Greek/and Bhuddist philosophies; in one or more of the scenes love and karma are two of many subjects that the film deals and that was my point of reference on the earlier thread. I can assure you that the Matrix isn't my lifestyle and/or religion so don't be scared....however you are entitled to your opinion easyease but I can assure you that an extremist evangelical preacher in the middle of OHIO would probably have something similar to say about the swinging lifestyle....so it really depends on your view of the world based on what you know and how you understand our individual "reality" which is often based on knowledge acquired from social conditioning and subliminal messages that bombard us each and every day. We then create our own experience within our own virtual world and environment.... so on this occassion lets agree to differ for in my opinion which is just as valid as yours the same logic of reality applies to love amongst other things, hence, why I drew an anology from the Matrix film(s)..... but please don't be afraid. I am not trying to convert you...not yet anyway!!
Maybe it's time for you to choose which pill to take either the blue pill or the red pill?
karma, kismet or destiny,
which do you mean, man makes his own karma in past action, destiny is determined for us by the three woman spinning.
Do we have choice over our end or not. Do we just determine the colour while fate determines the shape.
Which of the world's philosophies do you follow or do you pick a bit from here and another from there. How can you choose a bit from there when translating it, the word into English it changes the meaning so much.
How right you are as a given example of the term "Fate" or "Fatae"
Greek and Roman mythologies include three spiritual beings called in Greek Moirai, or in Latin Fatae who are meant to control the destiny of a person. There are references made by Shakespeare in Macbeth: The three witches have been linked to the three spinners from the old English term weird which has been translated to "destiny". The three "weird sisters" are the fates that controlled destiny...
The term Fatae is also referred to within the theological context of the "science" of demonology by the catholic church wich isn't surprising really because it is derived from Latin.
As one noble bhuddist said to me...you have many ways to climb a mountain but when you get to the top the view is the same but the perception may differ.

30 Jan 2006

Quote by Lilmiss
Any matrix fans will tell you that love is a word and the semantics of the definition is based on personal experience and perception. We define our own world from our own childhood experiences and the subliminal conditioning that society exposes us to, however, we are also influenced by a host of other sources such as books, films, friends, ex partners and so on. . The definition of love varies according to the culture, belief system (if any), customs, and social etiquette. For example in some countries a man can have x amount of wifes etc whlst in another the same man would be considered a bigomist. Acceptance of the norm or questioning it would bring you closer to discovering who you are and what you expect from yourself and others.
Love is just a word; what really matters is the meaning that we give by definition based on your personal experience. With love comes expectations, illusions, dreams, comfort, reassurance, hurt, pain etc.
Whilst I am still a virgin to the swinging scene. Transactional Analysis may offer some of the answers to the question initially posted here. Most couples who are into the swininging scene have reached a state of adult consent that brings into play "I am OK You are OK". Isaac Newton would argue that the sum derived from a "positive number" and "a negative number" equals a "negative number". So for a couple to enjoy the swinging scene both partners would have to be in agreement based on the law of action and consequences derived from their personal values, and their definition of love which may differ anyone elses definition.
Love in my opinion is a child like emotion that is experienced through our childhood giving us our sense of worth and self esteem. So the dynamic of two child like personilities giving each other consent to be naughty can also be derived from transactional analysis. As humans we evolve and we make choices that would appear to be the right ones at the time based on our circumstances, environment etc. However, if at any point you begin to question the choices you've made then doubt might just creep in and then there is a danger that you could start to project your doubts on to your partner and that's when things can get very tricky.
As for one group of people with a "label" loving more than or less than another group is pure nonsense..I am afraid that we will never know the answer to that one because it is human nature to feel one thing and reveal a series of smoke screens to the world. Who would question the old couple who are not swingers but have just celebrated 40 years of marriage, and they still walk down the beach hand in hand. Have they loved less or more than a couple who happen to be swingers....That would depend on the dynamics of the relationship. Which brings me to my final point in that "relationship" is yet another word that gives meaning to a set of protocols that differ from couple to couple and does not necessarily involve "love" as habitual conditioning can also be a symptom of being in denial that one's relationship has passed it's sell by date but we continue to accomodate and even agree to certain terms that may not be favourable because of our fear of the unknown

Well.... i obviously haven't watched matrix!!!
WTF.... is all that about.....? Nobody has ask what's the definition of LOVE or what it mean....He asked......
So i ask myself is it that people who swing do not love, have not found love, or do they love more.?
What is Love? There I asked it.
Love is the wish to protect, and make the object of love happy. Even to your own disadvantage, ie die for your country. Love does not need to be reciprocal, in deed if it were it could be considered a 'deal' rather than love. OK so that's my definition, but before we can discuss love we need to know what it IS! So far it is clear that we all understand something different by the word. For me love is not ownership, a deal, or sex. or control.

30 Jan 2006

Love is certainly not rationally explicable. And there are definitely different strokes for different folks. Jealousy is not about love; it's about ownership. The US polyamorists talk about 'Compersion' the pleasure we gets from watching those we love giving and receiving pleasure with each other.
We are big fans of love, and swing because we love each other. At a recent Greedy girls night we saw a young woman getting gang-banged by a series of eager single males, and she was having a very noisy and enjoyable time getting so much vigourous sex. Afterwards we watched her make love with her husband. This was different, quieter but passionate and tender; love in contrast to sex.

30 Jan 2006

Funny, Constance, but it could be that she is suffering from a bloke who is economical with da truth....

30 Jan 2006

Quote by
OK, what do I mean by love? Love is the wish to protect someone, to make them happy and it is sometimes about sharing. On the other hand there is a limit to love, I would not kill to make someone happy. So there is a limit to love, everyone has a different limit, even you. If you do not know who someone is you can not judge if they do or do not love.

Protection sure..... but to have mutual happiness first you must have:
Respect
Trust
Comunication
Understanding
And as far as your example of what you think love is.... there is no limit to what love can be, only the understanding of what that means and encompasses to each individual or couple.....

30 Jan 2006

Quote by
She swings I swing, but not together. We talk about it but not what we have done. She know, she knows I know. The rules seem to have built themselves over the years. She prefers not to know my what, who, where, when. I would like to swing together, we respect each other wishes.

Quote by
OK , we have talked about swinging, my wife will not talk about what she and I have done, she will not go swinging with me. She even refuses to talk about me finding what a guy left behind.
..........and I would like to go to a party with her..........does that tell you how much we love?
No it does not does it not. Love is in the head a concept without physical form which we all struggle to understand.

Right - can i ask you a question or three.....
Firstly - did you both used to swing before you met?
Did you meet on the swinging scene?
And if the both above are no, then how on earth did you end up swinging seperatly?
Who brough it up/went...(or not as the case may be).. first?
Not wishing to judge you or your relationship or the quality of the love that you have between you.....BUT.... this does somewhat seem to me to be a rather "strange" position that you are in. Are you sure you aren't both going off sleeping with other people just to hurt eachother because neither of you really wants to be doing it, and only are to "get back at" eachother.?!?!?!
I remain
Highly Confused
RM2

30 Jan 2006

Quote by constance
Ive been a bit confused with all of this since the beginning....
After your post... i asked you a Q... and your answer was...
Am i right in thinking ur in the scene and your wife doesn't know??

She swings I swing, but not together. We talk about it but not what we have done. She know, she knows I know. The rules seem to have built themselves over the years. She prefers not to know my what, who, where, when. I would like to swing together, we respect each other wishes.
See these bits are what confuses me....

Quote by
She swings I swing, but not together. We talk about it but not what we have done.

And then you continue to say...

Quote by
She know, she knows I know

Well yes... you should do, you say you talk about it confused

Quote by
She prefers not to know my what, who, where, when.

But you said you talk about it dunno

OK , we have talked about swinging, my wife will not talk about what she and I have done, she will not go swinging with me. She even refuses to talk about me finding what a guy left behind.
..........and I would like to go to a party with her..........does that tell you how much we love?
No it does not does it not. Love is in the head a concept without physical form which we all struggle to understand.
Fuck all the philosophy, the movie cults, the transactional analysis and all the other crap. I diagnose that what your wife is suffering from is good old fashioned female embarassment and self doubt!
Then again I could be wrong............................................................
possible

30 Jan 2006

Quote by RidingMountains2
She swings I swing, but not together. We talk about it but not what we have done. She know, she knows I know. The rules seem to have built themselves over the years. She prefers not to know my what, who, where, when. I would like to swing together, we respect each other wishes.

Quote by
OK , we have talked about swinging, my wife will not talk about what she and I have done, she will not go swinging with me. She even refuses to talk about me finding what a guy left behind.
..........and I would like to go to a party with her..........does that tell you how much we love?
No it does not does it not. Love is in the head a concept without physical form which we all struggle to understand.

Right - can i ask you a question or three.....
Firstly - did you both used to swing before you met?
Did you meet on the swinging scene?
And if the both above are no, then how on earth did you end up swinging seperatly?
Who brough it up/went...(or not as the case may be).. first?
Not wishing to judge you or your relationship or the quality of the love that you have between you.....BUT.... this does somewhat seem to me to be a rather "strange" position that you are in. Are you sure you aren't both going off sleeping with other people just to hurt eachother because neither of you really wants to be doing it, and only are to "get back at" eachother.?!?!?!
I remain
Highly Confused
RM2
NO
NO
Don't know
Still confused? So am I!

31 Jan 2006

Quote by JudyTV
Any matrix fans will tell you that love is a word and the semantics of the definition is based on personal experience and perception. We define our own world from our own childhood experiences and the subliminal conditioning that society exposes us to, however, we are also influenced by a host of other sources such as books, films, friends, ex partners and so on. . The definition of love varies according to the culture, belief system (if any), customs, and social etiquette. For example in some countries a man can have x amount of wifes etc whlst in another the same man would be considered a bigomist. Acceptance of the norm or questioning it would bring you closer to discovering who you are and what you expect from yourself and others.
Love is just a word; what really matters is the meaning that we give by definition based on your personal experience. With love comes expectations, illusions, dreams, comfort, reassurance, hurt, pain etc.
Whilst I am still a virgin to the swinging scene. Transactional Analysis may offer some of the answers to the question initially posted here. Most couples who are into the swininging scene have reached a state of adult consent that brings into play "I am OK You are OK". Isaac Newton would argue that the sum derived from a "positive number" and "a negative number" equals a "negative number". So for a couple to enjoy the swinging scene both partners would have to be in agreement based on the law of action and consequences derived from their personal values, and their definition of love which may differ anyone elses definition.
Love in my opinion is a child like emotion that is experienced through our childhood giving us our sense of worth and self esteem. So the dynamic of two child like personilities giving each other consent to be naughty can also be derived from transactional analysis. As humans we evolve and we make choices that would appear to be the right ones at the time based on our circumstances, environment etc. However, if at any point you begin to question the choices you've made then doubt might just creep in and then there is a danger that you could start to project your doubts on to your partner and that's when things can get very tricky.
As for one group of people with a "label" loving more than or less than another group is pure nonsense..I am afraid that we will never know the answer to that one because it is human nature to feel one thing and reveal a series of smoke screens to the world. Who would question the old couple who are not swingers but have just celebrated 40 years of marriage, and they still walk down the beach hand in hand. Have they loved less or more than a couple who happen to be swingers....That would depend on the dynamics of the relationship. Which brings me to my final point in that "relationship" is yet another word that gives meaning to a set of protocols that differ from couple to couple and does not necessarily involve "love" as habitual conditioning can also be a symptom of being in denial that one's relationship has passed it's sell by date but we continue to accomodate and even agree to certain terms that may not be favourable because of our fear of the unknown

Well.... i obviously haven't watched matrix!!!
WTF.... is all that about.....? Nobody has ask what's the definition of LOVE or what it mean....He asked......
So i ask myself is it that people who swing do not love, have not found love, or do they love more.?
What is Love? There I asked it.
Love is the wish to protect, and make the object of love happy. Even to your own disadvantage, ie die for your country. Love does not need to be reciprocal, in deed if it were it could be considered a 'deal' rather than love. OK so that's my definition, but before we can discuss love we need to know what it IS! So far it is clear that we all understand something different by the word. For me love is not ownership, a deal, or sex. or control.

With regard to your quote above in red.
The "Love" of two people you are referring to certainly DOES have to be reciprocal. If in a two person relationship it becomes none reciprocal then one of the two people has fallen out of love. Love in deep, meaningful and very complex. You cannot compare the love for your country which is basically a loyalty that need no reciprocal activity with the same love you have for a person. Lap dog love IE one way non reciprocal is indeed the road to disaster. I think you need to stop trying to justify certain important relationship issues and have a ride in the real world. If your own "Love" situation is indeed none reciprocal then you need to look at it in a very clear headed way and ask yourself: is this love or is it a fear of losing the status quo and hence a fear to move on? One of the main reasons we stay in a failing relationship or a failing career is the fear of the unknown and a reluctance to take a chance on moving on. This is fine if there is a positive and realistic reason to maintain the status quo but love is not necessarily the reason for it and we often actually kid ourselves that we are "In love" or "Love the person" when in fact we are in love with the situation or rather the perceived or desired situation. Its only when all this is clear in ones mind that reliable decisions can be made.
You appear to be be in a fog and looking to justify what you want to think rather than what is realistic.
Your statement of : "Love is the wish to protect, and make the object of love happy. Even to your own disadvantage, IE die for your country" is in my opinion verging on fanatical and very unrealistic and is even akin to a kind of religion that is practised in cults..
Hu.. and they say I'm confused. I am now :idea: :roll:

: .
Jude.
There are many who love the Queen, or loved her daughter in-law Di, but is that love returned. It may may be in the sense that the Queen is the servant of the people and she loves her subjects, but is that the same as love for one person. So I return to the Question What is love? Doe's a mother still love a child when it runs away, is that just holding on to the status-quo.
IF YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO SACCAFICE FOR THE OBBJECT OF YOUR LOVE, IS IT LOVE?

31 Jan 2006

:shock:

31 Jan 2006

Quote by Lilmiss
Any matrix fans will tell you that love is a word and the semantics of the definition is based on personal experience and perception. We define our own world from our own childhood experiences and the subliminal conditioning that society exposes us to, however, we are also influenced by a host of other sources such as books, films, friends, ex partners and so on. . The definition of love varies according to the culture, belief system (if any), customs, and social etiquette. For example in some countries a man can have x amount of wifes etc whlst in another the same man would be considered a bigomist. Acceptance of the norm or questioning it would bring you closer to discovering who you are and what you expect from yourself and others.
Love is just a word; what really matters is the meaning that we give by definition based on your personal experience. With love comes expectations, illusions, dreams, comfort, reassurance, hurt, pain etc.
Whilst I am still a virgin to the swinging scene. Transactional Analysis may offer some of the answers to the question initially posted here. Most couples who are into the swininging scene have reached a state of adult consent that brings into play "I am OK You are OK". Isaac Newton would argue that the sum derived from a "positive number" and "a negative number" equals a "negative number". So for a couple to enjoy the swinging scene both partners would have to be in agreement based on the law of action and consequences derived from their personal values, and their definition of love which may differ anyone elses definition.
Love in my opinion is a child like emotion that is experienced through our childhood giving us our sense of worth and self esteem. So the dynamic of two child like personilities giving each other consent to be naughty can also be derived from transactional analysis. As humans we evolve and we make choices that would appear to be the right ones at the time based on our circumstances, environment etc. However, if at any point you begin to question the choices you've made then doubt might just creep in and then there is a danger that you could start to project your doubts on to your partner and that's when things can get very tricky.
As for one group of people with a "label" loving more than or less than another group is pure nonsense..I am afraid that we will never know the answer to that one because it is human nature to feel one thing and reveal a series of smoke screens to the world. Who would question the old couple who are not swingers but have just celebrated 40 years of marriage, and they still walk down the beach hand in hand. Have they loved less or more than a couple who happen to be swingers....That would depend on the dynamics of the relationship. Which brings me to my final point in that "relationship" is yet another word that gives meaning to a set of protocols that differ from couple to couple and does not necessarily involve "love" as habitual conditioning can also be a symptom of being in denial that one's relationship has passed it's sell by date but we continue to accomodate and even agree to certain terms that may not be favourable because of our fear of the unknown

Well.... i obviously haven't watched matrix!!!
WTF.... is all that about.....? Nobody has ask what's the definition of LOVE or what it mean....He asked......
So i ask myself is it that people who swing do not love, have not found love, or do they love more.?
What is Love? There I asked it.
Love is the wish to protect, and make the object of love happy. Even to your own disadvantage, ie die for your country. Love does not need to be reciprocal, in deed if it were it could be considered a 'deal' rather than love. OK so that's my definition, but before we can discuss love we need to know what it IS! So far it is clear that we all understand something different by the word. For me love is not ownership, a deal, or sex. or control.

With regard to your quote above in red.
The "Love" of two people you are referring to certainly DOES have to be reciprocal. If in a two person relationship it becomes none reciprocal then one of the two people has fallen out of love. Love in deep, meaningful and very complex. You cannot compare the love for your country which is basically a loyalty that need no reciprocal activity with the same love you have for a person. Lap dog love IE one way non reciprocal is indeed the road to disaster. I think you need to stop trying to justify certain important relationship issues and have a ride in the real world. If your own "Love" situation is indeed none reciprocal then you need to look at it in a very clear headed way and ask yourself: is this love or is it a fear of losing the status quo and hence a fear to move on? One of the main reasons we stay in a failing relationship or a failing career is the fear of the unknown and a reluctance to take a chance on moving on. This is fine if there is a positive and realistic reason to maintain the status quo but love is not necessarily the reason for it and we often actually kid ourselves that we are "In love" or "Love the person" when in fact we are in love with the situation or rather the perceived or desired situation. Its only when all this is clear in ones mind that reliable decisions can be made.
You appear to be be in a fog and looking to justify what you want to think rather than what is realistic.
Your statement of : "Love is the wish to protect, and make the object of love happy. Even to your own disadvantage, IE die for your country" is in my opinion verging on fanatical and very unrealistic and is even akin to a kind of religion that is practised in cults..
Hu.. and they say I'm confused. I am now :idea: :roll:

: .
Jude.
There are many who love the Queen, or loved her daughter in-law Di, but is that love returned. It may may be in the sense that the Queen is the servant of the people and she loves her subjects, but is that the same as love for one person. So I return to the Question What is love? Doe's a mother still love a child when it runs away, is that just holding on to the status-quo.
IF YOU ARE NOT WILL TO SACCAFICE FOR THE OBBJECT OF YOUR LOVE, IS IT LOVE?
I am a mother..... I LOVE my child.... I have always LOVED my child and i will always LOVE my child..... may she be the age she is now or when she is my age and got her own family....
And I think most parents will say exactly the same.
Im 30... and my parents still tell me they LOVE me now....
I wouldn't say parents and children come in the same catagory as LOVe between 2 adults towards eachother.

31 Jan 2006

This love things been around a long whlie. The Greeks have four words for love of people (as opposed to sex or ice-cream or chocolate)
They are: Philos, Storge, Eros and Agape.
Philos is the love we have for friends; companionship and comradeship. It is difficult to have a one sided philos, but if found it usually takes the form of hero-worship.
Storge is the love we usually have for our children, a desire to nurture and protect, and implies a parent-child relationship.
Eros is the physical love we are probably talking about here, and is often just another word for lust. Nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't need to be returned for us to feel it. It has little lasting value if not augmented by one of the other kinds of love.
Agape is a selfless love for one's fellow creatures; the sort of thing Jesus Christ is said to have practiced, or Ghandhi.

1 Feb 2006

Quote by brandynsoda
This love things been around a long whlie. The Greeks have four words for love of people (as opposed to sex or ice-cream or chocolate)
They are: Philos, Storge, Eros and Agape.
Philos is the love we have for friends; companionship and comradeship. It is difficult to have a one sided philos, but if found it usually takes the form of hero-worship.
Storge is the love we usually have for our children, a desire to nurture and protect, and implies a parent-child relationship.
Eros is the physical love we are probably talking about here, and is often just another word for lust. Nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't need to be returned for us to feel it. It has little lasting value if not augmented by one of the other kinds of love.
Agape is a selfless love for one's fellow creatures; the sort of thing Jesus Christ is said to have practiced, or Ghandhi.

I think you have just said it eros is lust, not love. Each of the above word represent a concept which does not directly over lap with concepts represented by English word. Along with the other three I add love of a mentor, sometimes present, but not by any means always.
Lust doe's not infer a willingness to do something for which there is no personal gain.
Love on the other hand doe's. If the willingness to act without gain is not there then I suggest that the word love is just a mask for lust.

1 Feb 2006

Quote by JudyTV
Any matrix fans will tell you that love is a word and the semantics of the definition is based on personal experience and perception. We define our own world from our own childhood experiences and the subliminal conditioning that society exposes us to, however, we are also influenced by a host of other sources such as books, films, friends, ex partners and so on. . The definition of love varies according to the culture, belief system (if any), customs, and social etiquette. For example in some countries a man can have x amount of wifes etc whlst in another the same man would be considered a bigomist. Acceptance of the norm or questioning it would bring you closer to discovering who you are and what you expect from yourself and others.
Love is just a word; what really matters is the meaning that we give by definition based on your personal experience. With love comes expectations, illusions, dreams, comfort, reassurance, hurt, pain etc.
Whilst I am still a virgin to the swinging scene. Transactional Analysis may offer some of the answers to the question initially posted here. Most couples who are into the swininging scene have reached a state of adult consent that brings into play "I am OK You are OK". Isaac Newton would argue that the sum derived from a "positive number" and "a negative number" equals a "negative number". So for a couple to enjoy the swinging scene both partners would have to be in agreement based on the law of action and consequences derived from their personal values, and their definition of love which may differ anyone elses definition.
Love in my opinion is a child like emotion that is experienced through our childhood giving us our sense of worth and self esteem. So the dynamic of two child like personilities giving each other consent to be naughty can also be derived from transactional analysis. As humans we evolve and we make choices that would appear to be the right ones at the time based on our circumstances, environment etc. However, if at any point you begin to question the choices you've made then doubt might just creep in and then there is a danger that you could start to project your doubts on to your partner and that's when things can get very tricky.
As for one group of people with a "label" loving more than or less than another group is pure nonsense..I am afraid that we will never know the answer to that one because it is human nature to feel one thing and reveal a series of smoke screens to the world. Who would question the old couple who are not swingers but have just celebrated 40 years of marriage, and they still walk down the beach hand in hand. Have they loved less or more than a couple who happen to be swingers....That would depend on the dynamics of the relationship. Which brings me to my final point in that "relationship" is yet another word that gives meaning to a set of protocols that differ from couple to couple and does not necessarily involve "love" as habitual conditioning can also be a symptom of being in denial that one's relationship has passed it's sell by date but we continue to accomodate and even agree to certain terms that may not be favourable because of our fear of the unknown

Well.... i obviously haven't watched matrix!!!
WTF.... is all that about.....? Nobody has ask what's the definition of LOVE or what it mean....He asked......
So i ask myself is it that people who swing do not love, have not found love, or do they love more.?
What is Love? There I asked it.
Love is the wish to protect, and make the object of love happy. Even to your own disadvantage, ie die for your country. Love does not need to be reciprocal, in deed if it were it could be considered a 'deal' rather than love. OK so that's my definition, but before we can discuss love we need to know what it IS! So far it is clear that we all understand something different by the word. For me love is not ownership, a deal, or sex. or control.

With regard to your quote above in red.
The "Love" of two people you are referring to certainly DOES have to be reciprocal. If in a two person relationship it becomes none reciprocal then one of the two people has fallen out of love. Love in deep, meaningful and very complex. You cannot compare the love for your country which is basically a loyalty that need no reciprocal activity with the same love you have for a person. Lap dog love IE one way non reciprocal is indeed the road to disaster. I think you need to stop trying to justify certain important relationship issues and have a ride in the real world. If your own "Love" situation is indeed none reciprocal then you need to look at it in a very clear headed way and ask yourself: is this love or is it a fear of losing the status quo and hence a fear to move on? One of the main reasons we stay in a failing relationship or a failing career is the fear of the unknown and a reluctance to take a chance on moving on. This is fine if there is a positive and realistic reason to maintain the status quo but love is not necessarily the reason for it and we often actually kid ourselves that we are "In love" or "Love the person" when in fact we are in love with the situation or rather the perceived or desired situation. Its only when all this is clear in ones mind that reliable decisions can be made.
You appear to be be in a fog and looking to justify what you want to think rather than what is realistic.
Your statement of : "Love is the wish to protect, and make the object of love happy. Even to your own disadvantage, IE die for your country" is in my opinion verging on fanatical and very unrealistic and is even akin to a kind of religion that is practised in cults..
Hu.. and they say I'm confused. I am now :idea: :roll:

: .
Jude.
Most of us are not asked to die for one county and that is an ex-stream example. Love how ever requires us to act with out personal gain. If we only act out of self interest then we are incapable of love, or have not found it. We are without love destined to live out our lives as greedy, pleasure seeking...
Oh and just to remind you 100 British men and women have now given up their lives for their country in Iraq. That according to you makes the people who defend your rights and life fanatical practicing some kind of religious cult. Don't mix TURE LOVE up with religion, I have no religion science fills that roll for me.

1 Feb 2006

Quote by JudyTV
, your getting the different types of love confused with each other, or are you saying that ALL love is the same, surely not?. I love my parents in a totally different way to how I love my country and the two are loved in a different way that I would love another human being not related to me. I love certain types of architecture but certainly not in any way that I love a person. The love I feel to-wards a person would need to be reciprocated for it to survive. Perhaps you need to re assess here.
This example you quoted below is such a bad analogy it really is grasping at straws and is un related to the love you originally posted about and is a desperate attempt at justification of what you WANT to think.

...Quote...There are many who love the Queen, or loved her daughter in-law Di, but is that love returned. It may may be in the sense that the Queen is the servant of the people and she loves her subjects, but is that the same as love for one person....Quote

Your just trying to make things fit into your own way of thinking. The world is wrong and is right? honey with respect, I don't think so. Here is a typical example of where once again you are falling into the trap of tram-line thinking and refusing point blank to think out of the box. You really don't want to listen to anyone, I cant see why you asked the question in your very first post because you didn't want anyone to give you an answer, unless that answer agreed with your own thinking. This could possibly be the rout cause of your problem as it appears to show the inability to accept suggestions and alternative thinking. Somehow I don't think you want to think in any way other than what you have already preconceived.
Jude

I do not love architecture, I like it. You seem to use the word far more freely than I do.

1 Feb 2006

Quote by Lilmiss
Am i right in thinking ur in the scene and your wife doesn't know??

She swings I swing, but not together. We talk about it but not what we have done. She know, she knows I know. The rules seem to have built themselves over the years. She prefers not to know my what, who, where, when. I would like to swing together, we respect each other wishes.
Well IMHO.... i'd say there is less love in your relationship/marriage than what there is in any of the cpls on this site....
All the other cpls on this site, that i have met or spoken too do it together. They talk and take into consideration how the other feels and if they wanna meet the said cpl/single they are chatting to. Very few cpls i know swing seperatly... and if they do there partners know about it, also know exactly where they will be when meeting somebody else.
Sorry to drag this from page one Lilmiss, but I disagree so much with what you said.
My partner and I swing sepparately and we love each other so much it keeps us going through everything. There isn't a day passes by where I don't think about him even though he lives quite a few hundred miles away.
We don't tell each other everything we do or dont do because our main rule is to be safe. We leave that up to the discretion and judgement of the person going through with things as only the person themselves knows if theyre comfy or not.
This doesn't detract from how much we love each other or our commitment to one another either. We also talk about it but not the gory details of everything that happened cos we trust each other.
Do swingers have more love??? Well, its a real cross section of people and there is as much variety in the swinging scene as there is walking down the high street where you live. To generalise about love and swingers would be a huge mistake as swinging with others is about sex, physical stuff that doesn't really have room for loving extra people... thats polyamoury???
Do swingers have more trust than other couples might be a more cut a dried "Yes" or "no" answer, but with love... complicated thing as no-one can seem to define what love is and it means something different to each person.
kiss