Love?

2 Feb 2006

Quote by eroticuk
Am i right in thinking ur in the scene and your wife doesn't know??

She swings I swing, but not together. We talk about it but not what we have done. She know, she knows I know. The rules seem to have built themselves over the years. She prefers not to know my what, who, where, when. I would like to swing together, we respect each other wishes.
Well IMHO.... i'd say there is less love in your relationship/marriage than what there is in any of the cpls on this site....
All the other cpls on this site, that i have met or spoken too do it together. They talk and take into consideration how the other feels and if they wanna meet the said cpl/single they are chatting to. Very few cpls i know swing seperatly... and if they do there partners know about it, also know exactly where they will be when meeting somebody else.
Sorry to drag this from page one Lilmiss, but I disagree so much with what you said.
My partner and I swing sepparately and we love each other so much it keeps us going through everything. There isn't a day passes by where I don't think about him even though he lives quite a few hundred miles away.
We don't tell each other everything we do or dont do because our main rule is to be safe. We leave that up to the discretion and judgement of the person going through with things as only the person themselves knows if theyre comfy or not.
This doesn't detract from how much we love each other or our commitment to one another either. We also talk about it but not the gory details of everything that happened cos we trust each other.
Do swingers have more love??? Well, its a real cross section of people and there is as much variety in the swinging scene as there is walking down the high street where you live. To generalise about love and swingers would be a huge mistake as swinging with others is about sex, physical stuff that doesn't really have room for loving extra people... thats polyamoury???
Do swingers have more trust than other couples might be a more cut a dried "Yes" or "no" answer, but with love... complicated thing as no-one can seem to define what love is and it means something different to each person.
kiss

Thank you, that puts it very nicely, but I do hope that is not the end of the thread.
Like you we both spend time away from each other.

2 Feb 2006

Quote by brandynsoda
Love is certainly not rationally explicable. And there are definitely different strokes for different folks. Jealousy is not about love; it's about ownership. The US polyamorists talk about 'Compersion' the pleasure we gets from watching those we love giving and receiving pleasure with each other.
We are big fans of love, and swing because we love each other. At a recent Greedy girls night we saw a young woman getting gang-banged by a series of eager single males, and she was having a very noisy and enjoyable time getting so much vigourous sex. Afterwards we watched her make love with her husband. This was different, quieter but passionate and tender; love in contrast to sex.

That seems to me a good example of difference between the way I feel for my wife and other women.
With other women it is pleasure with due concern for the woman's pleasure. With my wife it is more pleasure for her, not that doe's not mean pleasure for me. With my wife it is something more than sex, and it is motivated by more than sexual pleasure. Sex and love can and do exist apart, but can also exist together.

2 Feb 2006

I am going to be away for 3 or 4 weeks so please do not think that lack of reply is lack of interest. Please keep posting I am finding this an interesting in-site into our fellow swingers.
Back soon as I can.

3 Feb 2006

Quote by Lilmiss
Any matrix fans will tell you that love is a word and the semantics of the definition is based on personal experience and perception. We define our own world from our own childhood experiences and the subliminal conditioning that society exposes us to, however, we are also influenced by a host of other sources such as books, films, friends, ex partners and so on. . The definition of love varies according to the culture, belief system (if any), customs, and social etiquette. For example in some countries a man can have x amount of wifes etc whlst in another the same man would be considered a bigomist. Acceptance of the norm or questioning it would bring you closer to discovering who you are and what you expect from yourself and others.
Love is just a word; what really matters is the meaning that we give by definition based on your personal experience. With love comes expectations, illusions, dreams, comfort, reassurance, hurt, pain etc.
Whilst I am still a virgin to the swinging scene. Transactional Analysis may offer some of the answers to the question initially posted here. Most couples who are into the swininging scene have reached a state of adult consent that brings into play "I am OK You are OK". Isaac Newton would argue that the sum derived from a "positive number" and "a negative number" equals a "negative number". So for a couple to enjoy the swinging scene both partners would have to be in agreement based on the law of action and consequences derived from their personal values, and their definition of love which may differ anyone elses definition.
Love in my opinion is a child like emotion that is experienced through our childhood giving us our sense of worth and self esteem. So the dynamic of two child like personilities giving each other consent to be naughty can also be derived from transactional analysis. As humans we evolve and we make choices that would appear to be the right ones at the time based on our circumstances, environment etc. However, if at any point you begin to question the choices you've made then doubt might just creep in and then there is a danger that you could start to project your doubts on to your partner and that's when things can get very tricky.
As for one group of people with a "label" loving more than or less than another group is pure nonsense..I am afraid that we will never know the answer to that one because it is human nature to feel one thing and reveal a series of smoke screens to the world. Who would question the old couple who are not swingers but have just celebrated 40 years of marriage, and they still walk down the beach hand in hand. Have they loved less or more than a couple who happen to be swingers....That would depend on the dynamics of the relationship. Which brings me to my final point in that "relationship" is yet another word that gives meaning to a set of protocols that differ from couple to couple and does not necessarily involve "love" as habitual conditioning can also be a symptom of being in denial that one's relationship has passed it's sell by date but we continue to accomodate and even agree to certain terms that may not be favourable because of our fear of the unknown

Well.... i obviously haven't watched matrix!!!
WTF.... is all that about.....? Nobody has ask what's the definition of LOVE or what it mean....He asked......
So i ask myself is it that people who swing do not love, have not found love, or do they love more.?
What is Love? There I asked it.
Love is the wish to protect, and make the object of love happy. Even to your own disadvantage, ie die for your country. Love does not need to be reciprocal, in deed if it were it could be considered a 'deal' rather than love. OK so that's my definition, but before we can discuss love we need to know what it IS! So far it is clear that we all understand something different by the word. For me love is not ownership, a deal, or sex. or control.

With regard to your quote above in red.
The "Love" of two people you are referring to certainly DOES have to be reciprocal. If in a two person relationship it becomes none reciprocal then one of the two people has fallen out of love. Love in deep, meaningful and very complex. You cannot compare the love for your country which is basically a loyalty that need no reciprocal activity with the same love you have for a person. Lap dog love IE one way non reciprocal is indeed the road to disaster. I think you need to stop trying to justify certain important relationship issues and have a ride in the real world. If your own "Love" situation is indeed none reciprocal then you need to look at it in a very clear headed way and ask yourself: is this love or is it a fear of losing the status quo and hence a fear to move on? One of the main reasons we stay in a failing relationship or a failing career is the fear of the unknown and a reluctance to take a chance on moving on. This is fine if there is a positive and realistic reason to maintain the status quo but love is not necessarily the reason for it and we often actually kid ourselves that we are "In love" or "Love the person" when in fact we are in love with the situation or rather the perceived or desired situation. Its only when all this is clear in ones mind that reliable decisions can be made.
You appear to be be in a fog and looking to justify what you want to think rather than what is realistic.
Your statement of : "Love is the wish to protect, and make the object of love happy. Even to your own disadvantage, IE die for your country" is in my opinion verging on fanatical and very unrealistic and is even akin to a kind of religion that is practised in cults..
Hu.. and they say I'm confused. I am now :idea: :roll:

: .
Jude.
There are many who love the Queen, or loved her daughter in-law Di, but is that love returned. It may may be in the sense that the Queen is the servant of the people and she loves her subjects, but is that the same as love for one person. So I return to the Question What is love? Doe's a mother still love a child when it runs away, is that just holding on to the status-quo.
IF YOU ARE NOT WILL TO SACCAFICE FOR THE OBBJECT OF YOUR LOVE, IS IT LOVE?
I am a mother..... I LOVE my child.... I have always LOVED my child and i will always LOVE my child..... may she be the age she is now or when she is my age and got her own family....
And I think most parents will say exactly the same.
Im 30... and my parents still tell me they LOVE me now....
I wouldn't say parents and children come in the same catagory as LOVe between 2 adults towards eachother.
It could be said that love is different, or that the love we have is expressed in different ways. Perhap depending on who that person is, and their relationship to us.

3 Feb 2006

Quote by Lilmiss
:shock:

How did I shock you Lilmiss. How?
Travis

3 Feb 2006

Quote by Snesh
Just to prove that I *did* write my 'definition' of love.... here's the quote...
I just found myself writing love in another thread, so I am starting this one.
I like thinking about my wife have fun, no not just that all kinds of fun.
So i ask myself is it that people who swing do not love, have not found love, or do they love more.
I think I love my wife because I can see her having fun with out me. I do not own her, I love her.
so here I am, that's what I think.....What do you think?

I think love and sex are very distinct objects - having sex with someone doesn't mean that you love them, and being in love with someone doesn't mean that you want to have sex with them... it's all about your own personal definitions I suppose.
I love Mr Snesh because of who he is and who he makes me, as well as the cracking sex and the fact that we trust each other enough to be able to bring others in with us sexually without fear of recourse...
Layla xx
Yes, you did. Sorry, on re-reading it you made a good point
Travis xxx

20 Feb 2006

Quote by Lilmiss
Any matrix fans will tell you that love is a word and the semantics of the definition is based on personal experience and perception. We define our own world from our own childhood experiences and the subliminal conditioning that society exposes us to, however, we are also influenced by a host of other sources such as books, films, friends, ex partners and so on. . The definition of love varies according to the culture, belief system (if any), customs, and social etiquette. For example in some countries a man can have x amount of wifes etc whlst in another the same man would be considered a bigomist. Acceptance of the norm or questioning it would bring you closer to discovering who you are and what you expect from yourself and others.
Love is just a word; what really matters is the meaning that we give by definition based on your personal experience. With love comes expectations, illusions, dreams, comfort, reassurance, hurt, pain etc.
Whilst I am still a virgin to the swinging scene. Transactional Analysis may offer some of the answers to the question initially posted here. Most couples who are into the swininging scene have reached a state of adult consent that brings into play "I am OK You are OK". Isaac Newton would argue that the sum derived from a "positive number" and "a negative number" equals a "negative number". So for a couple to enjoy the swinging scene both partners would have to be in agreement based on the law of action and consequences derived from their personal values, and their definition of love which may differ anyone elses definition.
Love in my opinion is a child like emotion that is experienced through our childhood giving us our sense of worth and self esteem. So the dynamic of two child like personilities giving each other consent to be naughty can also be derived from transactional analysis. As humans we evolve and we make choices that would appear to be the right ones at the time based on our circumstances, environment etc. However, if at any point you begin to question the choices you've made then doubt might just creep in and then there is a danger that you could start to project your doubts on to your partner and that's when things can get very tricky.
As for one group of people with a "label" loving more than or less than another group is pure nonsense..I am afraid that we will never know the answer to that one because it is human nature to feel one thing and reveal a series of smoke screens to the world. Who would question the old couple who are not swingers but have just celebrated 40 years of marriage, and they still walk down the beach hand in hand. Have they loved less or more than a couple who happen to be swingers....That would depend on the dynamics of the relationship. Which brings me to my final point in that "relationship" is yet another word that gives meaning to a set of protocols that differ from couple to couple and does not necessarily involve "love" as habitual conditioning can also be a symptom of being in denial that one's relationship has passed it's sell by date but we continue to accomodate and even agree to certain terms that may not be favourable because of our fear of the unknown

Well.... i obviously haven't watched matrix!!!
WTF.... is all that about.....? Nobody has ask what's the definition of LOVE or what it mean....He asked......
So i ask myself is it that people who swing do not love, have not found love, or do they love more.?
What is Love? There I asked it.
Love is the wish to protect, and make the object of love happy. Even to your own disadvantage, ie die for your country. Love does not need to be reciprocal, in deed if it were it could be considered a 'deal' rather than love. OK so that's my definition, but before we can discuss love we need to know what it IS! So far it is clear that we all understand something different by the word. For me love is not ownership, a deal, or sex. or control.

With regard to your quote above in red.
The "Love" of two people you are referring to certainly DOES have to be reciprocal. If in a two person relationship it becomes none reciprocal then one of the two people has fallen out of love. Love in deep, meaningful and very complex. You cannot compare the love for your country which is basically a loyalty that need no reciprocal activity with the same love you have for a person. Lap dog love IE one way non reciprocal is indeed the road to disaster. I think you need to stop trying to justify certain important relationship issues and have a ride in the real world. If your own "Love" situation is indeed none reciprocal then you need to look at it in a very clear headed way and ask yourself: is this love or is it a fear of losing the status quo and hence a fear to move on? One of the main reasons we stay in a failing relationship or a failing career is the fear of the unknown and a reluctance to take a chance on moving on. This is fine if there is a positive and realistic reason to maintain the status quo but love is not necessarily the reason for it and we often actually kid ourselves that we are "In love" or "Love the person" when in fact we are in love with the situation or rather the perceived or desired situation. Its only when all this is clear in ones mind that reliable decisions can be made.
You appear to be be in a fog and looking to justify what you want to think rather than what is realistic.
Your statement of : "Love is the wish to protect, and make the object of love happy. Even to your own disadvantage, IE die for your country" is in my opinion verging on fanatical and very unrealistic and is even akin to a kind of religion that is practised in cults..
Hu.. and they say I'm confused. I am now :idea: :roll:

: .
Jude.
There are many who love the Queen, or loved her daughter in-law Di, but is that love returned. It may may be in the sense that the Queen is the servant of the people and she loves her subjects, but is that the same as love for one person. So I return to the Question What is love? Doe's a mother still love a child when it runs away, is that just holding on to the status-quo.
IF YOU ARE NOT WILL TO SACCAFICE FOR THE OBBJECT OF YOUR LOVE, IS IT LOVE?
I am a mother..... I LOVE my child.... I have always LOVED my child and i will always LOVE my child..... may she be the age she is now or when she is my age and got her own family....
And I think most parents will say exactly the same.
Im 30... and my parents still tell me they LOVE me now....
I wouldn't say parents and children come in the same catagory as LOVe between 2 adults towards eachother.
I'm saying that the LOVE is the same love, protect and make happy ect. BUT clearly the expression of that love is different. Love between two adults can be touched with lust, but love between adult and child can not.

20 Feb 2006

Well we have a little saying..... and its so true..
'They who play together stay together'
Well so far anyway lol......
Mike and Julie xx

21 Feb 2006

I am sure you are right but that does not stop us staying together for 25 very short years.

21 Feb 2006

Quote by JudyTV
I am sure you are right but that does not stop us staying together for 25 very short years.

Staying together for 25 years is in no way a sign of love, being in love, or loving someone. There have been and still are many long term relationships that are quite loveless and are long term for convenience. I was myself involved in a relationship lasting almost 20 years and if love was ever present then it died very quickly within the first few years you seem to be hung up on convincing us all about your own particular ideas of love. It begs the question of who are you keen on convincing us or yourself.
If we love someone we have no real need to continually prove it, or feel a need to convince others of our love because the person concerned will be aware of our love. Other peoples views on love may differ to those of your own. What is important to remember is that some people never find love, some people don't want to find love and there are others who absolutely do not believe in love. What was vitally important to us many years ago now fades into insignificance. Love is intangible and is not all things to all people,
Love in many cases causes more problems that it solves, in others it creates happiness and contentment.
Jude
No thing is all things to anyone!

21 Feb 2006

Quote by JudyTV
I am sure you are right but that does not stop us staying together for 25 very short years.

Staying together for 25 years is in no way a sign of love, being in love, or loving someone. There have been and still are many long term relationships that are quite loveless and are long term for convenience. I was myself involved in a relationship lasting almost 20 years and if love was ever present then it died very quickly within the first few years you seem to be hung up on convincing us all about your own particular ideas of love. It begs the question of who are you keen on convincing us or yourself.
If we love someone we have no real need to continually prove it, or feel a need to convince others of our love because the person concerned will be aware of our love. Other peoples views on love may differ to those of your own. What is important to remember is that some people never find love, some people don't want to find love and there are others who absolutely do not believe in love. What was vitally important to us many years ago now fades into insignificance. Love is intangible and is not all things to all people,
Love in many cases causes more problems that it solves, in others it creates happiness and contentment.
Jude
No thing is all things to anyone!
I have said that in many previous posts and I more or less said it in my last post. Your getting there.
Jude
I do hope not!

22 Feb 2006

As you said your past has effected your out look on life, that is true of everyone. That does not mean that your need to over look the fact that others have not had your life and there fore do not look at things in the same way. Love for some is meaningful and real.

27 Feb 2006

Quote by hisandhers"
http://www.swingingheaven.co.uk/swingers-forum/viewtopicpage/72444/20.html
explain what is the difference between 'love' & 'Lust"

I think you are referring to love/lust between consenting adults. If that is so then here is my answer:
Lust is 'lets get our togs off so I can enjoy your body'
Love is 'lets get our togs off so you can enjoy my body'
Love is 'lets go over to Adam's and Eve's place, I know you enjoy Adam'
Lust is ' lets go over to Adam's and Eve's place, so I can enjoy Eve'
From the outside Love and Lust can be confused, only the person feeling it real know what they feel!

27 Feb 2006

Loving yourself and knowing yourself is very important.
It helps you to tell other people how you want to be loved.
It helps you be aware of how others want and also need to be loved.
So when you have that sorted out, you can, if you want to, begin to spread your ability and skill of love, and in doing so help others achieve and/or repair their love.

28 Feb 2006

Quote by JudyTV

Love is about having to deal with someoneâ€™s dirty laundry, their mood swings, their dreams, and their ambitions, taking care of them when they are unwell or even worse.
Jude.

Now you are getting there!

3 Mar 2006

Quote by JudyTV

Love is about having to deal with someoneâ€™s dirty laundry, their mood swings, their dreams, and their ambitions, taking care of them when they are unwell or even worse.
Jude.

Now you are getting there!
As stated in a much earlier post. I have already been there. Do try and keep up dear, after all, it is your thread.. rolleyes

Jude.
But you have still not excpeted it have you?

3 Mar 2006

Quote by

Love is about having to deal with someoneâ€™s dirty laundry, their mood swings, their dreams, and their ambitions, taking care of them when they are unwell or even worse.
Jude.

Now you are getting there!
As stated in a much earlier post. I have already been there. Do try and keep up dear, after all, it is your thread.. rolleyes

Jude.
But you have still not excpeted it have you?
Expected what??? dunno

For it to be bumped continualy over the last month and find that no-one replies to it anymore cos it's now over 5 pages long and has a whole bunch of you posting after yourself quoting various things in order to prove a ppoint that already been made? :dunno:
Erm....
No, I didn't expect that at all confused

:roll:

3 Mar 2006

I have locked this because seems to be going in circles confused