Moral dilemma

17 Sep 2005

Quote by pleasureseeker
"You ARE out there erm... playing"....I think you will find I am not
"You are on a swingers website without your wife's knowledge trying to find someone in the same predicament as you" wrong, I came here to ask advice, cant you read?
"m8" Im not your mate.
"Cheating = play by deception
Swinging = play by permission" Got anymore 'just add water' cliche's?

Your original post stated you were looking for advice.. then you posted this later in the thread (on page 2 to be precise)

Quote by pleasureseeker
Can I just add that I am not particualrly looking for swinging. a relationship with someone in the same predicament would be the ideal

Then further:

Quote by pleasureseeker
someone who I actually like and respect

Do you not like nor respect your wife? If not then leave her, and come on here a single guy and be accepted as genuine.
And then this:

Quote by pleasureseeker
and have a tangible relationship with outside of actual sex.

If actual sex is secondary to a tangible relationship then you already have that with your wife of 19 years ........ 19 years sounds very tangible to me.
I know people break up for all sorts of reasons but don't come on here trying to gloss over the cracks in your life with some sob story about your wife not liking sex anymore. Maybe it's you she don't like having sex with - who knows, but like someone else said in this thread - you almost had us with your first post then you backtracked with this lot.
Bottom line is: if you haven't got the balls to leave her and start afresh then at least be honest with us and her about it.

17 Sep 2005

Quote by Wishmaster
"You ARE out there erm... playing"....I think you will find I am not
"You are on a swingers website without your wife's knowledge trying to find someone in the same predicament as you" wrong, I came here to ask advice, cant you read?
"m8" Im not your mate.
"Cheating = play by deception
Swinging = play by permission" Got anymore 'just add water' cliche's?

Your original post stated you were looking for advice.. then you posted this later in the thread (on page 2 to be precise)

Quote by pleasureseeker
Can I just add that I am not particualrly looking for swinging. a relationship with someone in the same predicament would be the ideal

Then further:

Quote by pleasureseeker
someone who I actually like and respect

Do you not like nor respect your wife? If not then leave her, and come on here a single guy and be accepted as genuine.
And then this:

Quote by pleasureseeker
and have a tangible relationship with outside of actual sex.

If actual sex is secondary to a tangible relationship then you already have that with your wife of 19 years ........ 19 years sounds very tangible to me.
I know people break up for all sorts of reasons but don't come on here trying to gloss over the cracks in your life with some sob story about your wife not liking sex anymore. Maybe it's you she don't like having sex with - who knows, but like someone else said in this thread - you almost had us with your first post then you backtracked with this lot.
Bottom line is: if you haven't got the balls to leave her and start afresh then at least be honest with us and her about it.
I have been honest, you, and others can interpret things to suit your own amateur psycohlogy backgrounds. I have had opportunites to 'play' and have refused them. have the balls to walk out on wfe, kids 19 years of marriage? no I havent, but then I posted that much and funnily you didnt c&p that! maybe my wife doest want sex with me? I can actually live with that if she wants it with someone else, ok, off you go!
Do any of you swingers have sex with anyone who hasnt cheated??...honestly now?

17 Sep 2005

Quote by pleasureseeker
Hello all, Im very new on here and have been having a look around the site. I am married with kids and ...well I like what I see! however I have a wife who most certainly wouldnt like what Im seeing. Ive been faithfully married for 19 years but getting pretty peed off by my wifes decreasing interest in sex (queue up those with the "have you tried....etc" ...yes I have and some maybe my fault but I am not taking the blame, I am prepared to try different thingswithin our marriage but my wife most certainly is not) hence the dear deadrie post. Is there abyone else who has been or is in a similar situation? if so do you, or anyone have any advice before I wank myself stupid? this post will look like I havent got a clue what I want...well havent but quite open minded. have a dig if you feel like it but this is how it is.

To be honest mate, this subject has been round the block so many times on here, you could have got a consensus simply by doing a search on "extramarital" or "affair" or "frigid".
Anyway, what are you looking for?
A) a way to rekindle your wife's interest,
B) a way to satisfy your own needs without her participation, or
C) a way to deal with neither of those things happening?
A) If you're looking to get your wife more interested, then I humbly suggest that after 19 years you ought to know better than anyone how to talk to her and find out what it would take. Perhaps you're considering asking her to swing and that's why you're asking on a swingers site? Well, only you can know how best to raise the subject, but once that conversation is under way, you might think about suggesting she reads these forums. She would probably have some preconceived ideas about who and what swingers are and SH is far and away the best resource I can think of to demonstrate that the swinging community is as diverse as society. She might see something on here that strikes a spark - might not even have anything to do with swinging.
B) If you're testing the water with regard to finding an extramarital solution to your physical needs, then I can predict, having deliberately not read the rest of thread before answering you, that you will already have been told that if your wife consents to you playing away, you will find it much easier to make suitable contacts via this site than if she does not. Your post doesn't make that very clear and I think you won't find much in the way of useful advice unless you clarify your intentions.
C) If you're looking for advice on how to deal with your wife's lack of interest without actually changing the situation, you've already answered it... "do you, or anyone have any advice before I wank myself stupid?"
Forgive me if I'm reading more into your post than is there, but frankly I think you need to talk to your wife before talking to us, because from what you've said above, it doesn't seem that you've done much of that.
Regards,
Ice

17 Sep 2005

Quote by Wishmaster
"You ARE out there erm... playing"....I think you will find I am not
"You are on a swingers website without your wife's knowledge trying to find someone in the same predicament as you" wrong, I came here to ask advice, cant you read?
"m8" Im not your mate.
"Cheating = play by deception
Swinging = play by permission" Got anymore 'just add water' cliche's?

Your original post stated you were looking for advice.. then you posted this later in the thread (on page 2 to be precise)

Quote by pleasureseeker
Can I just add that I am not particualrly looking for swinging. a relationship with someone in the same predicament would be the ideal

Then further:

Quote by pleasureseeker
someone who I actually like and respect

Do you not like nor respect your wife? If not then leave her, and come on here a single guy and be accepted as genuine.
And then this:

Quote by pleasureseeker
and have a tangible relationship with outside of actual sex.

If actual sex is secondary to a tangible relationship then you already have that with your wife of 19 years ........ 19 years sounds very tangible to me.
I know people break up for all sorts of reasons but don't come on here trying to gloss over the cracks in your life with some sob story about your wife not liking sex anymore. Maybe it's you she don't like having sex with - who knows, but like someone else said in this thread - you almost had us with your first post then you backtracked with this lot.
Bottom line is: if you haven't got the balls to leave her and start afresh then at least be honest with us and her about it.
I think this should stop now. This is a bit like the Inquisition FFS. Give the guy a break. Nothing's perfect and we don't all say exactly what we mean all the time do we?
Pleasureseeker - you've had some good advice here. I'd just take it and move on to another thread - honestly.

17 Sep 2005

No, in 19 years I can honestly say I have not (I would post the roll eyes emoticon but it really doesnt do justice to the level of sarcasm I feel towards this post)! how come everyone knows that which I havent done???? perhaps its just the easy and lazy way of not admiting you dont actually have the answer? I dont expect the miracle cure but give me some credit for knowing a bit more about my marrieage than you do

17 Sep 2005

Hi pleasureseeker
I would just like to say you shouldn't assume that everyone on here is a swinger, the only safe assumption you could probably make is everyone here has an interest in sex and sexual relations, in whatever form that may take, hence the reason you are getting such strong and different opinions.
Secondly, I would like to ask if your wife has such a "straight laced" attitude to sex, why has it only just become a big problem now after 19 years, surely she hasn't only just adopted this attitude?
Have you thought about sex therapy?

17 Sep 2005

Point taken Tune, this is going nowhere. be happy in your lives...however you get there its your way, doesnt mean its everyone elses.

17 Sep 2005

Quote by pleasureseeker
...Forgive me if I'm reading more into your post than is there, but frankly I think you need to talk to your wife before talking to us, because from what you've said above, it doesn't seem that you've done much of that.
Regards,
Ice

No, in 19 years I can honestly say I have not (I would post the roll eyes emoticon but it really doesnt do justice to the level of sarcasm I feel towards this post)! how come everyone knows that which I havent done???? perhaps its just the easy and lazy way of not admiting you dont actually have the answer? I dont expect the miracle cure but give me some credit for knowing a bit more about my marrieage than you do
I gave you precisely that credit, which is why I said you should be talking to her and not us because, I repeat, your post strongly suggested that you had not spoken to her about this subject. You've come here asking for advice and thrown every bit of it back in the faces of those who took the trouble to respond. If you were just here looking for a shag, why didn't you just say so.
I deliberately didn't read the whole thread until after I made my post because I didn't want to get bogged down in all the moralistic stuff which I knew your post would evoke. I chose to give you the benefit of the doubt because you didn't make it clear what you were looking for, but having read your subsequent comments and dummy throwing at not getting the answers you wanted, the best advice I can give you now is piss off.

17 Sep 2005

Quote by purple_cpl
Not what I wanted to hear????? read my first post again...line near the end is a clue!
your opinions shed no light on my situation.
!

You also invited people to have a dig, yet you object when they appear to (to you). It's a no-win for anyone unless they agree with you confused

You'll just reject their replies without any consideration.
Mr Purple wasn't suggesting you divorce her, I reckon he was saying that you should at least try and that divorce may be a last resort. If I misunderstood that, I apologise Mr Purple.
I asked a few questions in my reply, and was very open and sincere... I know now that clearly pleasureseeker is out on his own here, and doesnt know what he wants to hear. No more comments will be posted by me.
Frecklechick, thanks very much... you hit the nail on the head. just glad I wasnt sat here all night keeping up with the thread.... now classed as officially BORING . :?
Agreed :thumbup:
I sorted the job out on page 1!

17 Sep 2005

Glad the forum has been brought together.
sorted it ut on page 1? course you did, divorce the bitch eh? what a caring individual. your pic indicates your attitude...a general who is also a buffoon and out of touch with what is actaully going on.

17 Sep 2005

Quote by pleasureseeker
Glad the forum has been brought together.
sorted it ut on page 1? course you did, divorce the bitch eh? what a caring individual. your pic indicates your attitude...a general who is also a buffoon and out of touch with what is actaully going on.

:rotflmao: :rotflmao:
Not sure that I said that, baaaah!

17 Sep 2005

Quote by Ice Pie
but having read your subsequent comments and dummy throwing at not getting the answers you wanted, the best advice I can give you now is piss off.

:thumbup:

17 Sep 2005

Pleasureseeker made one mistake in his opening thread. He invited people to have a dig. And boy did they. From that point onwards he was, understandably, beleaguered and on the defensive. This then gave people the opportunity to then accuse him of 'only listening to views that aligned with his own'.
He is obviously inexperienced in arguing a point when confronted by a range of people who were indignant at his reaction - some of the indignation was righteous indeed.
I'm not saying that his position is particularly defensible but the guy was given no chance to absorb what was some good advice and maybe see that he might modify his view.
Classic pack demolition of a newcomer - not very pretty.
Pleasureseeker - I apologise for referring to you in the third person here - but I do it because I guess you might've 'pissed off'.

17 Sep 2005

Quote by westerross
Pleasureseeker made one mistake in his opening thread. He invited people to have a dig. And boy did they. From that point onwards he was, understandably, beleaguered and on the defensive. This then gave people the opportunity to then accuse him of 'only listening to views that aligned with his own'.
He is obviously inexperienced in arguing a point when confronted by a range of people who were indignant at his reaction - some of the indignation was righteous indeed.
I'm not saying that his position is particularly defensible but the guy was given no chance to absorb what was some good advice and maybe see that he might modify his view.
Classic pack demolition of a newcomer - not very pretty.
Pleasureseeker - I apologise for referring to you in the third person here - but I do it because I guess you might've 'pissed off'.

I didnt have a dig, if I say so myself, I gave bloody good advice!

17 Sep 2005

Quote by Happy Cats
I didnt have a dig, if I say so myself, I gave bloody good advice!

I agree - I guess you only threw in the divorce bit as a counter to sitting down and talking. The point I'm making is that the guy was staggering a bit from some fairly caustic treatment and he wasn't able to take any of the good advice on board - or, I guess, identify where it was coming from in the end. By the time he had the 'gritty' exchange with you he was long since a lost cause I think - if I remember rightly?

17 Sep 2005

Quote by westerross

I didnt have a dig, if I say so myself, I gave bloody good advice!

I agree - I guess you only threw in the divorce bit as a counter to sitting down and talking. The point I'm making is that the guy was staggering a bit from some fairly caustic treatment and he wasn't able to take any of the good advice on board - or, I guess, identify where it was coming from in the end. By the time he had the 'gritty' exchange with you he was long since a lost cause I think - if I remember rightly?
I was just being logical, if you have a problem with a partner and cant resolve it, you either put up with it or leave them.
I still dont know why he got pissy with me, I'm all of a tizz now!
wink

17 Sep 2005

I just wonder wether we are gonna have to get all serious and re-hash this arguament every time some joker underestimates the IQ of the board and tries once again to use his 'doubts' and 'my wife doesnt understand me' in order to get an "in" to the board .
Just treat this as the clumsy and transparent attempt at manipulation that it is , and take pride that we are lucky enough to be in the company of people here that see it for what it is , a poor opening gambit .
Peace

17 Sep 2005

Quote by HornyLittleBlonde
Obviously we don't know you or your wife and I only have 3 pages of posts to offer an opinion on here, but my advice would be to talk to your wife.
I know you say you've tried everything but looking at comments you've made I think there may be a lack of communication between you both. I'm not saying you don't talk to each other - but there maybe an unwillingness to discuss certain feelings.
You said that your wife doesn't find anyone else attractive (even celebrities) - Personally I find this very hard to believe unless as was previously stated that there is a medical issue (maybe one she is unaware of).
Also depending on her age and upbringing she may find dicussing sexual issues embarrassing and therefore just be burying her head in the sand.
I'm not sure what the answer is but I hope it would give you something to think about.

BINGO.................. thatâ€™s what i was going to say, only much more vociferously and at much greater length, so everyone worship

to HornyLittleBlonde for saving you from a fate Worse that death.
Now I am only on page 4, and really could not get to the end of the thread without making a comment, so if its been said â€¦â€¦â€¦.. I really donâ€™t give a toss ok, its too late and Iâ€™m tired.
Mate, Iâ€™m sorry for all the flack, but this is a SWINGERS site, we are a group of people who have been vilified by every section of society i.e. the press, as being a bunch of promiscuous , sex starved perverts who would shag your dog the minute you leave the room. So you need to cut us some slack when we get a little defensive ok?
I read your initial post and to be honest, my heart went out to you in a way, but at the same time I found it hard to believe that you had, as you said, â€œtried everythingâ€
You say you love your wifeâ€¦.. Ok, I can accept that, even though you are contemplating extramarital sojourns, well let me tell you something, I did that, I â€œcheatedâ€ on my wife once, for very very similar reasons, with both eyes closed â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦ I thought, wtf, what she doesnâ€™t know wont hurt her, blah blah â€¦. Well guess what, how ever clever you think you are, she will know, and she will find out.
Now if you do not love her, it wont matter a dam to you, and fair enough, you go ahead. But if you do love her, be prepared for the most painful moment of your life, because when you look into those hurting, confused, tear streaked eyes, your heart will break in two, and there is no sex in the universe worth that shame.
In the words of the unread bard BT ITS GOOD TO TALK.
If this has been covered after page 4, dunno

:cheers:

:thrilled:

18 Sep 2005

Quote by pleasureseeker
Can I just add that I am not particualrly looking for swinging. a relationship with someone in the same predicament would be the ideal, someone who I actually like and respect (not that im saying you all dont like and respect each other) and have a tangible relationship with outside of actual sex.

Wooooooooooooah! Dangerous ground! You said earlier that you love your wife and have no wish to leave her... Your statement is above all the quickest way to achieve that.
You meet a lady, she delights you with her intelligence, her beauty and sexual desire... just how are you going to manage to hide that from your wife? Unless you are a supreme actor you will change... the bounce in your step will be noticed...

18 Sep 2005

Quote by pleasureseeker
...you have maintained up to now that you were only interested in the sex ? I have???
and you HAD me on your side till then

I'll miss you
so sex for people on here is a simple cold act? get real
Not at all pleasure seeker but if you continue to imply one thing and then in other thrreads later declare another, you will not be taken seriously and will find you become rather unpopular on the site.....
you havent had a good start i must say rolleyes

and your comment about missing us cut us soooo deeply i doubt we will ever recover from our wounds, oow i think its just reopened confused

18 Sep 2005

If actual sex is secondary to a tangible relationship then you already have that with your wife of 19 years ........ 19 years sounds very tangible to me.
I know people break up for all sorts of reasons but don't come on here trying to gloss over the cracks in your life with some sob story about your wife not liking sex anymore. Maybe it's you she don't like having sex with - who knows, but like someone else said in this thread - you almost had us with your first post then you backtracked with this lot.
b]
it was me me i tells you, i demand recognition and if you dont i will tell everyone that you slept in your parents bed with them till you left home.....
oh dear i think i just did, recognition denied redface

18 Sep 2005

Thread Hijack !!

Quote by steanrachy
who really expects to these days with 3 out of 5 marraiges ending in divorce and the average wedding costing upwards of Â£16000.....

Interesting quote there.......... we as in M & H have decided that our magic day will be 14th February 2006 (say ahhhh!)....... we've both been married before and have lived together for 5 years. We have decided that her young daughter will be sort of maid of honour, and my kids (both mid 20's) will be the witnesses, get married, have a meal to remember, go home..............
At the weekend we will anounce to all friends what we have done, and buy them all a drink............. total cost probably to be measured in the hundreds of Â£Â£Â£'s...... so what must some people be spending to get the average up to Â£16000?
Hijack Over..........
Pleasureseeker (if you are still here)!
We are new to this site and very new to the scene. we have done straight (I'm not bi)MMF with full penetration and we will be doing this again, In addition we are thinking about soft swing with another couple.
why wouldn't we be interested in someone like you?........ moral grounds?.......nah
We wouldn't be interested in you because you are in an obviously unhappy marriage..... tensions, reduced sex and all that. So what would happen if you were to be let loose with M & H?.......... quite simply you would want to take over, smother her, and prove your sexual prowess........ Then who knows, maybe you would start pestering her whilst I wasn't around.......umm that is not we would be looking for in a 3some. We look for good NSA sex and fun that involves all three people present. Sadly from our one experience to date we know that this can be hard to achieve with a married man in your predicament.......
You could try the single women that get on here, or the attatched ones that are free to maybe do 1 on 1....... problem is though if they saw what you have written on here about wanting to meet with someone in a similar predicament etc etc, you are likely to scare them off cos they themselves are probably just looking for NSA fun.
Bottom line is we sympathise with you and wish you luck, but we feel that you will be better off looking on a non-swinger site. Go and seek out others in your predicament (men as well as women)... talk to them, sort out in your own mind the right way forward for you, then go and do it.
M & H

18 Sep 2005

To continue Thread Hijack

Quote by Him'nHer
Thread Hijack !!
At the weekend we will anounce to all friends what we have done, and buy them all a drink............. total cost probably to be measured in the hundreds of Â£Â£Â£'s...... so what must some people be spending to get the average up to Â£16000?
Hijack Over..........
M & H

I used to organise weddings and I've been at a few where the bar bill alone was over Â£16,000 - its quite easy to see where all the money is wasted.

18 Sep 2005

Wow celticq, now that would be one hell of a hangover......... well it would when me credit card melted :dry:

18 Sep 2005

Roll-up, roll-up. The moral high-ground band wagon is about to leave and there are still a few seats at the back!
OK, the guy came on here and opened up. OK, his idea may not suit the values that some of you put on what it means to be a â€˜swingerâ€™.
I appreciate that a lively debate makes for interesting reading and draws out important points.
I totally support the right to have and share opinions and beliefs.
I know how strongly people feel when they find a subject that hits on their values.
And for what it is worth - here is my opinion:
The levels of hypocrisy in this CafÃ© are steadily rising each time a post like this occurs.
I know regular users of this site who are in a â€˜vanillaâ€™ marriage/relationship and yet they are accepted by the masses:
Oh yes, but one is a woman!
And another one says he is not here to swing â€“ but has tried his luck on more than one occassion!
Oh yes â€“ another one said he tells his vanilla partner about ALL of his swinging activities (though I have always thought of 1-2-1 meets as being shagging)
I know regular users of this site that have/do meet men who are in â€˜vanillaâ€™ relationships â€“ yet they call the men â€˜cheatsâ€™ and take the moral high ground. I think I know women that do the same - but I am not totally sure on that one.
There are regular users of this site that go to swinging clubs and the subject of â€œdo you have a partner at home?â€ is NEVER raised. FFS the subject of â€œby the way, what is your name?â€ barely gets brought up.
There are swinging couples on this site that attend munches and parties, accepted and befriended by you all â€“ yet they fuck like mad behind their partners backs. And who are they fucking? Other SH members!
You may wish to condemn this guy â€“ yet you condone the actions of others by failing to speak out against them as directly as you have with this guy.
What is the difference between him and them? Oh yes â€“ could it be - you chat to them in the chatroom/they post a lot on the forum/you have had them/you know people who know them/you have met them in person and aside from cheating they are a really nice person/people?
Maybe you only condone through ignorance or maybe you are choosing to ignore. But if you choose to ignore one, then why not the other?
Is it just easier to apply your morals to the â€˜new guyâ€™?
Note: This opinion of mine does not apply to everyone who has added their stab to this thread â€“ only those who choose to ignore and be selective of to whom their beliefs apply.

18 Sep 2005

Quote by Pete_sw
Obviously we don't know you or your wife and I only have 3 pages of posts to offer an opinion on here, but my advice would be to talk to your wife.
I know you say you've tried everything but looking at comments you've made I think there may be a lack of communication between you both. I'm not saying you don't talk to each other - but there maybe an unwillingness to discuss certain feelings.
You said that your wife doesn't find anyone else attractive (even celebrities) - Personally I find this very hard to believe unless as was previously stated that there is a medical issue (maybe one she is unaware of).
Also depending on her age and upbringing she may find dicussing sexual issues embarrassing and therefore just be burying her head in the sand.
I'm not sure what the answer is but I hope it would give you something to think about.

BINGO.................. thatâ€™s what i was going to say, only much more vociferously and at much greater length, so everyone worship

to HornyLittleBlonde for saving you from a fate Worse that death.

kiss

cheers hun
Unfortunately after he agreed with my comments that he can't discuss sexual issues with his wife, he then went on and have ago at Wishy and Ice (to name just 2) for suggesting that he hasn't tried to communicate.
I know some people have commented on how this guy's been treated, but I personally stayed out of the morality argument and just tried to offer the best advice I could.
I in no way tried to pass judgement on him personally - until now.
Mod Edit: Please don't post personal insults that add nothing to a debate!

18 Sep 2005

I agree wholeheartedly with Polo that moral high ground is a hard place to reach if your climbing equipment is the confused mix of values involved in what is loosely called swinging . I could give a toss about his morals , I just find it offensive that his opening gambit was so transparently manipulative , not to mention unoriginal.

18 Sep 2005

"Can I just add that I am not particualrly looking for swinging. a relationship with someone in the same predicament would be the ideal, someone who I actually like and respect ..."
OK this is what I posted, however it seems to be taken as me advertising and touting my wares, I can assure you all it was not, I have not placed any adds on this site nor contacted anyone in order to pursue this, it was more of a case of typing out loud. I will repeat, faithfully married for 19 years, had chances to stry but havent done so.
A relationship with another woman in the same predicament, in my confused state seems the logical option...however wrong it is or may appear to be. I cannot believe some of the judgemental attitudes on here and also the propensity to put the boot in when the smell of blood is in the air. I have asked twice without answer (ironically) and will ask again, can any of you honestly deny you have had sex with someone who was cheating?
Asshole I perhaps maybe but I deeply resent the liar accusation

18 Sep 2005

Quote by pleasureseeker
. I have asked twice without answer (ironically) and will ask again, can any of you honestly deny you have had sex with someone who was cheating?
Asshole I perhaps maybe but I deeply resent the liar accusation

I answered you, back on page three of this thread. You ignored it though and made comment about something else in the same post.

Quote by Freckledbird, on page 3
There are people on here who cheat, but I can honestly say that I have never swung with them knowing that they were a cheat. Unless anyone wants to confess?

, but that looks like an answer.

18 Sep 2005

half an answer maybe, because there was still a chance they were cheating...or is it sometimes better not to ask too much info?
Anyway sorry for neglecting your reply.