Moral dilemma

17 Sep 2005

Quote by Wishmaster
freckle, you freely used the term "cheat" which having sex outside of marriage without the knowledge and/or consent of the spouse is, however do you really think using such a loaded term about everyone who has sex outide marriage is pertinent? I feel cheated within my marriage and im sure im not alone in that. it is worth considering that people "cheat" because they are either selfish barstewards or at at the end of their tether with an unresponsive partner. you sound a very bitter person...perhaps this explians your viewpoint

In for a penny - in for a pound.......
19 years ago you stood next to your fiance and declared:
With thy body I thee honour
Forsaking all others until death us do part
...... now unless the marriage vows have changed significantly with the adendum "until you piss me off by not coming across with the goodies" - I believe the words you said to her 19 years ago still stand because they are obviously still stand for her, hence her unwillingness and reluctance to get involved in swinging.
Swingers are people who freely have sex with others WITH THEIR PARTNER'S CONSENT AND/OR BLESSING - if your partner decides that she does not want to 'swing' but is happy for you to do so then at least you will have given her the choice.
She can:
a) dissolve the marriage
b) swing with you (you could be wrong about her if you haven't asked her)
c) seek help WITH YOU to save your marraige
I spoke to a young couple recently on here who joined to swing. They then had second thoughts about it so my advice was not to do anything until they were both sure that swinging is what they BOTH wanted - they risked their relationship by going ahead when only one was keen on it - my advice to you is consult your wife or else risk the same end result.
ooooh wishy i luv it when u get all righteous, but i have to agree100% with wot u said.
sierra x x

17 Sep 2005

Can I just add that I am not particualrly looking for swinging. a relationship with someone in the same predicament would be the ideal, someone who I actually like and respect (not that im saying you all dont like and respect each other) and have a tangible relationship with outside of actual sex.

17 Sep 2005

I find it odd that a psuedo religious argument is put forward as a case against me when those who do so are engaging in behaviour for which Sodom and Gamorrah were destroyed?

17 Sep 2005

so you are looking for a new relationship? i think you have just checkmated yourself about the earlier comments from freckledbird and cheating etc.....
you have maintained up to now that you were only interested in the sex as your wife was now sexually obselete, and are here on asking for relationships on a more "personal level" rolleyes

and you HAD me on your side till then

17 Sep 2005

Quote by pleasureseeker
I find it odd that a psuedo religious argument is put forward as a case against me when those who do so are engaging in behaviour for which Sodom and Gamorrah were destroyed?

me thinks your on the wrong website if you are condeming those that you seek to covet

17 Sep 2005

Quote by steanrachy
...you have maintained up to now that you were only interested in the sex ? I have???
and you HAD me on your side till then

I'll miss you
so sex for people on here is a simple cold act? get real

17 Sep 2005

Quote by steanrachy
I find it odd that a psuedo religious argument is put forward as a case against me when those who do so are engaging in behaviour for which Sodom and Gamorrah were destroyed?

me thinks your on the wrong website if you are condeming those that you seek to covet
stean read the posts agan, im not doing the condemning!

17 Sep 2005

Pseudo religious argument or not, you married the woman!
You joined here today looking for absolution from us so that you can cheat on your wife with a clear conscience. If we had said 'Sure m8, come on in and let's play!' you'd have jumped straight in with both feet first and not given a toss for your wife, her feelings or your marraige (I dont believe you give a toss about any those things anyway).
The fact that you are now all defensive speaks volumes of you as a person - you are shallow and insincere. You led us to believe in your opening post that you were looking for advice - later you admit that a relationship with someone 'in the a same predicament as you' is what you're really looking for and that tells me one thing and one thing only:
You are a player.

17 Sep 2005

Quote by steanrachy
I find it odd that a psuedo religious argument is put forward as a case against me when those who do so are engaging in behaviour for which Sodom and Gamorrah were destroyed?

me thinks your on the wrong website if you are condeming those that you seek to covet
i think your one confused bloke, you need to put more effort into your marraige as you put into your posts.
sierra x x

17 Sep 2005

Quote by pleasureseeker
I find it odd that a psuedo religious argument is put forward as a case against me when those who do so are engaging in behaviour for which Sodom and Gamorrah were destroyed?

Isn't this a religious argument then? If it's a relationship other than swinging that you seek, then maybe you're in the wrong place, as others have suggested. The behaviours I engage in are with my hubby's consent. There are people on here who cheat, but I can honestly say that I have never swung with them knowing that they were a cheat. Unless anyone wants to confess?

17 Sep 2005

Quote by Wishmaster
Pseudo religious argument or not, you married the woman!
You joined here today looking for absolution from us so that you can cheat on your wife with a clear conscience. If we had said 'Sure m8, come on in and let's play!' you'd have jumped straight in with both feet first and not given a toss for your wife, her feelings or your marraige (I dont believe you give a toss about any those things anyway).
The fact that you are now all defensive speaks volumes of you as a person - you are shallow and insincere. You led us to believe in your opening post that you were looking for advice - later you admit that a relationship with someone 'in the a same predicament as you' is what you're really looking for and that tells me one thing and one thing only:
You are a player.

absolute rot! read my first post, who is asking for absolution? can that be given in here? you have a very high opinion of yourself. "come on mate lets play"?? I dont think so. you dont believe I "give a toss" re feelings? yeah right, if I didnt give a toss I would be out there...erm...playing!

17 Sep 2005

Quote by freckledbird
I find it odd that a psuedo religious argument is put forward as a case against me when those who do so are engaging in behaviour for which Sodom and Gamorrah were destroyed?

Isn't this a religious argument then? If it's a relationship other than swinging that you seek, then maybe you're in the wrong place, as others have suggested. The behaviours I engage in are with my hubby's consent. There are people on here who cheat, but I can honestly say that I have never swung with them knowing that they were a cheat. Unless anyone wants to confess?]
Freckle, this is 'the cafe' general discussion and chit chat, I mistakenly thought I could get some advice and opinions from thosse who had gone through or are going through something similar, I didnt realise you had to be a veteran swinger to post here.

17 Sep 2005

Obviously we don't know you or your wife and I only have 3 pages of posts to offer an opinion on here, but my advice would be to talk to your wife.
I know you say you've tried everything but looking at comments you've made I think there may be a lack of communication between you both. I'm not saying you don't talk to each other - but there maybe an unwillingness to discuss certain feelings.
You said that your wife doesn't find anyone else attractive (even celebrities) - Personally I find this very hard to believe unless as was previously stated that there is a medical issue (maybe one she is unaware of).
Also depending on her age and upbringing she may find dicussing sexual issues embarrassing and therefore just be burying her head in the sand.
I'm not sure what the answer is but I hope it would give you something to think about.

17 Sep 2005

Quote by pleasureseeker
I find it odd that a psuedo religious argument is put forward as a case against me when those who do so are engaging in behaviour for which Sodom and Gamorrah were destroyed?

Isn't this a religious argument then? If it's a relationship other than swinging that you seek, then maybe you're in the wrong place, as others have suggested. The behaviours I engage in are with my hubby's consent. There are people on here who cheat, but I can honestly say that I have never swung with them knowing that they were a cheat. Unless anyone wants to confess?]
Freckle, this is 'the cafe' general discussion and chit chat, I mistakenly thought I could get some advice and opinions from thosse who had gone through or are going through something similar, I didnt realise you had to be a veteran swinger to post got some advice, you didn't like it so you proceeded to "shout down" everyone who posted, starting with freckly. I think her comment was meant innocently in her first post, but you got your hackles up.
You lost your own argument, and as a neutral I could not believe what I was reading. You say about needing to be a "veteran swinger" to post here, that is not the case, BUT you do have to be polite and courteous, AND if you open yourself up for abuse with the phrase in your original post "have a dig if you feel like it" then you have to take a certain amount of "digs"
If you had been a bit more sincere, and not so abusive, I really, truly believe you would have got some good advice - as it stands now, I reckon you owe at least three of the best people on here a humble apology !!
BTW, I was in a marriage like yours for 9 years, and in the end she left me, I never cheated or looked elsewhere, I believed the vows I made, and whilst I tried my best to re-invigorate our relationship in never happened. ****Making up for it now though wink

****

17 Sep 2005

Quote by HornyLittleBlonde
Obviously we don't know you or your wife and I only have 3 pages of posts to offer an opinion on here, but my advice would be to talk to your wife.
I know you say you've tried everything but looking at comments you've made I think there may be a lack of communication between you both. I'm not saying you don't talk to each other - but there maybe an unwillingness to discuss certain feelings.
You said that your wife doesn't find anyone else attractive (even celebrities) - Personally I find this very hard to believe unless as was previously stated that there is a medical issue (maybe one she is unaware of).
Also depending on her age and upbringing she may find dicussing sexual issues embarrassing and therefore just be burying her head in the sand.
I'm not sure what the answer is but I hope it would give you something to think about.

Im deadly serious about her not finding anyone else attractive (she could be lying and hiding something but im pretty open with her so she has no need to be). Medical issues ruled out. the discussing sexual issues is the pertinant point, she had a pretty strict background and really clams up even when a mild sex scene comes on the telly to the point she switches it off. how to get round this? who knows?

17 Sep 2005

Looking through all the posts, I think you have been given some good advice biggrin

I think the only way forward ,as has been said is the 'big' chat with your wife.
If she thinks that she is making you unhappy, or can't satisfy you, it must make her feel quite bad, and can't be good for her confidence etc, which in turn, will effect her desires in the bedroom.
The balls in your court really. Carry on as you are, or do something about it with your wife :D

17 Sep 2005

Welsh, who have I abused? is this the que for me to be banned?

17 Sep 2005

Quote by pleasureseeker
I find it odd that a psuedo religious argument is put forward as a case against me when those who do so are engaging in behaviour for which Sodom and Gamorrah were destroyed?

Isn't this a religious argument then? If it's a relationship other than swinging that you seek, then maybe you're in the wrong place, as others have suggested. The behaviours I engage in are with my hubby's consent. There are people on here who cheat, but I can honestly say that I have never swung with them knowing that they were a cheat. Unless anyone wants to confess?]
Freckle, this is 'the cafe' general discussion and chit chat, I mistakenly thought I could get some advice and opinions from thosse who had gone through or are going through something similar, I didnt realise you had to be a veteran swinger to post here.
Nobody said you have to be a 'veteran swinger' to post here. You've stated that you seek a relationship; this is a swinging site, not a contacts site. THAT is why I (and others) said you might be in the wrong place.

17 Sep 2005

Do not feed the troll!

You joined here today looking for absolution from us so that you can cheat on your wife with a clear conscience.

he didnt get that and will now continue the 'debate' in order to either (a) attempt to win people over or (b) to wind those of different views up more.
The moral arguement has been done to death, he didnt win it, so is now throwing the 'veteran swinger vs newbie' in for good measure.
Oooo, I'm such a party pooper :twisted:
*goes to get popcorn*

17 Sep 2005

My personal advice after reading thro all the posts are, just follow your heart, if you really could meet an new woman and have a relationship with her then go back to your wife and act like nothing has happened, go for it, at the end of the day its your life and you will do what you like anyway, i mean your not honestly going to take the advice of a bunch of strangers are you?
Tho my personal opinion after reading your posts are, i feel you are after more than just sex, if you was happy with your wife in all other areas than sex you would want to meet for a shag then go home, the fact you have put you do not want one night stands but are looking for one special woman you could have a relationship with says to me you are looking for someone new, and i feel that if you found such a lady you could respect and have a relationship with as well as a great sex life you would probabily leave your wife for her anyway. so what i don't understand is why you don't just tell her how you feel and go now by any more hurt is caused.

17 Sep 2005

Quote by pleasureseeker
Pseudo religious argument or not, you married the woman!
You joined here today looking for absolution from us so that you can cheat on your wife with a clear conscience. If we had said 'Sure m8, come on in and let's play!' you'd have jumped straight in with both feet first and not given a toss for your wife, her feelings or your marraige (I dont believe you give a toss about any those things anyway).
The fact that you are now all defensive speaks volumes of you as a person - you are shallow and insincere. You led us to believe in your opening post that you were looking for advice - later you admit that a relationship with someone 'in the a same predicament as you' is what you're really looking for and that tells me one thing and one thing only:
You are a player.

absolute rot! read my first post, who is asking for absolution? can that be given in here? you have a very high opinion of yourself. "come on mate lets play"?? I dont think so. you dont believe I "give a toss" re feelings? yeah right, if I didnt give a toss I would be out there...erm...playing!
You ARE out there erm... playing!
You are on a swingers website without your wife's knowledge trying to find someone in the same predicament as you........ so you can what, exactly?.... swap notes?? knitting patterns??
I don't have a high opinion of myself m8. I KNOW who and what I am ... a swinger - one that doesn't cheat on my partner and one that would not knowingly play with someone who IS cheating on their partner.
Cheating = play by deception
Swinging = play by permission
Go figure!

17 Sep 2005

I had had such a dilema over the years and it may have furred up my arteries

my site, my story and comments on there appreciated

17 Sep 2005

Quote by Wishmaster
I am ... a swinger - one that doesn't cheat on my partner .
Cheating = play by deception
Swinging = play by permission
Go figure!

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

17 Sep 2005

Quote by naughtynymphos1
My personal advice after reading thro all the posts are, just follow your heart, if you really could meet an new woman and have a relationship with her then go back to your wife and act like nothing has happened, go for it, at the end of the day its your life and you will do what you like anyway, i mean your not honestly going to take the advice of a bunch of strangers are you?
Tho my personal opinion after reading your posts are, i feel you are after more than just sex, if you was happy with your wife in all other areas than sex you would want to meet for a shag then go home, the fact you have put you do not want one night stands but are looking for one special woman you could have a relationship with says to me you are looking for someone new, and i feel that if you found such a lady you could respect and have a relationship with as well as a great sex life you would probabily leave your wife for her anyway. so what i don't understand is why you don't just tell her how you feel and go now by any more hurt is caused.

Naughty that is the most sensible and helpful thing posted in response. you putforward two scenarios and im not sure I could carry either off. "... and i feel that if you found such a lady you could respect and have a relationship with as well as a great sex life you would probabily leave your wife for her anyway". this scares me because I could be on the verge of betraying my wife and I find the idea incredibly difficult to come to terms with. as for telling her and letting go? as it is, I hurt, no one else does, if I tell her, everyone hurts., Im not sure I could put them all through it or that what I want is that important anyway. Thank you, it has at least clarified one or two things in my head.

17 Sep 2005

Quote by SunBunny

I am ... a swinger - one that doesn't cheat on my partner .
Cheating = play by deception
Swinging = play by permission
Go figure!

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
oooo sunBunny. ur teeth are showing.... you sit awake all day and night waiting for me to post something you can have a pop at .... poor dearie...

17 Sep 2005

Quote by pleasureseeker
Naughty that is the most sensible and helpful thing posted in response.

hey i have my moments
I think to be honest most people when not happy will look for someone else b4 leaving their partner as they fear being on their own again and find the idea of leaving their partner for someone else much easier than going and being alone till someone else comes along, now obviously i am not saying i agree with this but people do grow apart, not everyone can be as happy 20 years later as they was on their wedding day and not everyone can make a marrage work thro trying, now of course it would be better if we could all live happily ever after but this is the real world and now days people don't have to stay in a unhappy marrage, but i still stand by what i said in my first posting, i have never agreed with cheating and i feel the only right thing to do is be 100% honest with her, it may hurt her feeling but don't you think she will be even more hurt if you did ever find your idea woman and left her?

17 Sep 2005

Quote by Wishmaster
Forsaking all others until death us do part

Ooops! An interesting little debate for swingers in that one! Always dangerous to resort to fundamentalism in my view.
One of the reasons why I come here - and I say this as a non-swinger - is that people tend to be tolerant hereabouts. I believe that to be partly because swingers tend to be a minority, misunderstood group but also because they have rationalised about what they really want and have come to a compromise - not on everything but on some important fundamentals.
I believe so far we've seen a guy come here on this thread, confused and looking for answers. One or two posters have extrapolated that to attribute a whole range of ulterior motives to him which by a process of insinuous debate has driven the guy into a corner.
I think that's a bit of a shame.

17 Sep 2005

"You ARE out there erm... playing"....I think you will find I am not
"You are on a swingers website without your wife's knowledge trying to find someone in the same predicament as you" wrong, I came here to ask advice, cant you read?
"m8" Im not your mate.
"Cheating = play by deception
Swinging = play by permission" Got anymore 'just add water' cliche's?

17 Sep 2005

Quote by Wishmaster
oooo sunBunny. ur teeth are showing.... you sit awake all day and night waiting for me to post something you can have a pop at .... poor dearie...

If you think that is the case I feel sorry for you. I am working 10 to 12 hour days and I visit the forum to lighten my head a little, and read something other than major corporate websites and annual reports in Spanish and French. I am not a big sleeper and am always at work by 6am, not in the chatroom talking crap.
What you do / say is of no consequence to me, and you are NOT the centre of my attention, I'm afraid to say.
But I couldn't possibly pass this opportunity by, given what you posted further up.
I guess you were baiting me, because you knew I was around tonight.
Who's sad now?

17 Sep 2005

Quote by pleasureseeker
Obviously we don't know you or your wife and I only have 3 pages of posts to offer an opinion on here, but my advice would be to talk to your wife.
I know you say you've tried everything but looking at comments you've made I think there may be a lack of communication between you both. I'm not saying you don't talk to each other - but there maybe an unwillingness to discuss certain feelings.
You said that your wife doesn't find anyone else attractive (even celebrities) - Personally I find this very hard to believe unless as was previously stated that there is a medical issue (maybe one she is unaware of).
Also depending on her age and upbringing she may find dicussing sexual issues embarrassing and therefore just be burying her head in the sand.
I'm not sure what the answer is but I hope it would give you something to think about.

Im deadly serious about her not finding anyone else attractive (she could be lying and hiding something but im pretty open with her so she has no need to be). Medical issues ruled out. the discussing sexual issues is the pertinant point, she had a pretty strict background and really clams up even when a mild sex scene comes on the telly to the point she switches it off. how to get round this? who knows?
Pleasureseeker
That was exactly what I was getting at. I wouldn't say she was intentionally lying by saying she doesn't find anyone else attractive - just that she findds it difficult/embarrassing to talk about.
I have worked with many women over the years who talk about "having to have sex" like it was some kind of chore.
What I've found from talking to some people is they usually don't enjoy it because they have hang ups about sex (and this usually stems from their upbringing/background). I once asked a women if she masterbated and she thought this alone was disgusting.
Please don't take offence, but the way you talk about sex with your wife sounds like a quick one on birthdays and at christmas with the lights out.
If you could get past your wifes embarrassment and communicate your feelings, wants and desires together I genuinely believe you and her may disciver a whole new side to your marriage