Is it time for some form of National Service in modern Britain?
I live in a shared house. Ive shared with JB, a 30 yr old single guy, a reformed bad boy whos now found God and changed his ways. Hes quiet, respectful and good company.
On Wednesday, all hell let loose when the landlord moved 2 kids in. Shes late teens, sheepish, hes late teens, cropped hair, gelled down, pasty white skin, constantly sniffing no doubt due to his sinuses rebelling at the nicotene cloud he lives in and looks shifty. ( yes im sounding like my mum i kno)
First the stench of nicotene, the loudess of music, the constant bumping of walls, stamp stamp stamp up and down stairs at all hours, then finding the front door unlocked at all hours, the mess left in the kitchen.
Last night i had not long got in from work, just logged on to here actually, sat reading and WTF. I thought the front door was coming off the hinges. I looked out the window and some spotty faced kid with a tin of beer was bashing down the front door. I settled back into reading mail and the noise continued. I snapped and went down stairs in my tee shirt and knix, opened the unlocked door and told the kid to fk off, he started pulling faces and i stepped out into the road and told him to run while he could, ....and he did. Man over the road looking through curtians was impressed!!
I went down stairs for a wee at 7ish to find a big lump of green snot on the tiolet seat. Stormed up to the kids room and asked for some of his time, marched him down and asked him to identify the lump on the seat. Mumbled grunts followed, and he cleaned it off, appologied and swore it wouldnt happen again.
I later went out to get a take away, ....door unlocked, so i locked it, went up road, came back 10 mins later, ......door unlocked again. Deep breath, dont over react Amy.
Went to the loo at 8 this morning and checked the loo seat before sitting, .... dirty little **** has pissed all over it. The kitchen is trashed, washing up left, a lump of cheese on the floor, the bin stinks of fag ends.
Just called landlord, said i wasnt paying rent for every day the kid is in the house, explained why and he said 'OH no, we had to give him a chance but i will move him out today"
It seems the kid has a history and clearly doesnt know how to live in civilised company.
Whos fault is this?, i know hes got a dad, possibly a mum too, so why is he a wild animal.
Yeah, i know some of you are parents of teenagers and your going to say they can be a handful, but im sure they dont behave like this?
Do we need a compulsory national service type "finishing school" for teenagers who need educating, guiding and moulding into shape by valued role models?
Join the most popular community of UK swingers now
Login
National Service?
Most of my "men" have been military. I dont conciously check to see if hes military before i decide to manouver......( a man chases a woman till she catches him), but i guess the way they behave attracts me and its all because of the training and discipline.
I wasnt thinking of national service in the 1950's sense of the word, but certainly some compulsary personal training to instill all the good qualities that seem to be lacking in majority of the youth of today.
I was raging inside but didnt blow my top. I remembered how my step dad would handle the situation and applied accordingly. As much as i hated step dad, he taught me, ....through beating and punishment....how to behave and do the right thing. Well there is a right and wrong way to do things, he was wrong, but same end result.
Im not advocating beating and harsh treatment unless its a last resort with the real hard nuts who cant learn any other way.
I treated the kid as an adult, asked for his help with "our" problem, and made it clear though superior attitude and posturing that he had to find the solution.
I had hoped he would see the importance of acting resposibly, but when he pissed on the seat this morning, i knew the lesson wasnt learned, so the stick has come out and ive evicted him.
I wasnt thinking of national service in the 1950's sense of the word, but certainly some compulsary personal training to instill all the good qualities that seem to be lacking in majority of the youth of today.
I was raging inside but didnt blow my top. I remembered how my step dad would handle the situation and applied accordingly. As much as i hated step dad, he taught me, ....through beating and punishment....how to behave and do the right thing. Well there is a right and wrong way to do things, he was wrong, but same end result.
Im not advocating beating and harsh treatment unless its a last resort with the real hard nuts who cant learn any other way.
I treated the kid as an adult, asked for his help with "our" problem, and made it clear though superior attitude and posturing that he had to find the solution.
I had hoped he would see the importance of acting resposibly, but when he pissed on the seat this morning, i knew the lesson wasnt learned, so the stick has come out and ive evicted him.
Just called landlord, said i wasnt paying rent for every day the kid is in the house, explained why and he said 'OH no, we had to give him a chance but i will move him out today"
It seems the kid has a history and clearly doesnt know how to live in civilised company.
Did the landlord, or you, or anyone else in the house bother to introduce yourselves, sit down over a cuppa and establish some form of relationship and more importantly ground rules before you waded in being a bit heavy handed laying the law down?
I have complete empathy with you that his behaviour is inappropraite and is making you mad, but, disrespect breeds disrespect and when you are aware that there is 'some history' with this lad, its also highly likley that he's very familiar with irate people like you banging on his door in a confrontatinal manner, and it will get you nowhere - other than another young adult being shifted from pillar to post because in all likelihood doesnt know what is acceptable or not because no-one's bothered to sit and explain it rationally.
What does JB think to this, btw? from a 'reformed character' point of view.
Quote by Darkfire
Just called landlord, said i wasnt paying rent for every day the kid is in the house, explained why and he said 'OH no, we had to give him a chance but i will move him out today"
It seems the kid has a history and clearly doesnt know how to live in civilised company.
Did the landlord, or you, or anyone else in the house bother to introduce yourselves, sit down over a cuppa and establish some form of relationship and more importantly ground rules before you waded in being a bit heavy handed laying the law down?
I have complete empathy with you that his behaviour is inappropraite and is making you mad, but, disrespect breeds disrespect and when you are aware that there is 'some history' with this lad, its also highly likley that he's very familiar with irate people like you banging on his door in a confrontatinal manner, and it will get you nowhere - other than another young adult being shifted from pillar to post because in all likelihood doesnt know what is acceptable or not because no-one's bothered to sit and explain it rationally.
What does JB think to this, btw? from a 'reformed character' point of view.
Darkfire
I didnt bang on his door in an irate manner, i treated him like an adult, asked for his time and help in resolution. I havent been disrespectful at any time. Taking the moral high ground from the outset puts me in an unassailable position later.
Im the responsible adult here and need to show that.
The first i knew of them moving in was when i went downstairs on wed afternoon and saw a stranger in the hall way with a binbag. I asked who she was and what she was doing.
The landlord is just here to make money, not run a social club, ....hes not interrested in social ettiquette
JB, is an evangelical born again christian who sees the good in everyone, including the drug dealing slag we had here at xmas, hes non confrontational and a wimp when it comes to problems, besides he was out last night and sleeps all day
Quote by Geminifemale
a man chases a woman till she catches him
..... the fog clears!!!.....
If National Service were around when I were a teenager, I'd rather have gone to gaol... just a personal thing...
... though now being at a safe distance from such a trial (namely: old).. I say; Byyy the leftah!.. quick 'arch! ep-ight, ep-ight, ep-ight eys front, shoulders back!
lp
Sex God
just wanted you to know im reading this
:gagged:
Edit: oops! nealy forgot
LP that would be " Def, Dike" btw
:gagged:
Edit: oops! nealy forgot
LP that would be " Def, Dike" btw
Quote by Geminifemale
Darkfire
I didnt bang on his door in an irate manner, i treated him like an adult, asked for his time and help in resolution. I havent been disrespectful at any time. Taking the moral high ground from the outset puts me in an unassailable position later.
Im the responsible adult here and need to show that.
really?
Quote by Geminifemale
... moved 2 kids in. Shes late teens, sheepish, hes late teens, cropped hair, gelled down, pasty white skin, constantly sniffing no doubt due to his sinuses rebelling at the nicotene cloud he lives in and looks shifty.
... some spotty faced kid ...
I snapped and went down stairs in my tee shirt and knix, opened the unlocked door and told the kid to fk off, he started pulling faces and i stepped out into the road and told him to run while he could, ....and he did.
Stormed up to the kids room and asked for some of his time, marched him down and asked him to identify the lump on the seat. Mumbled grunts followed, and he cleaned it off, appologied and swore it wouldnt happen again.
.... dirty little **** has pissed all over it.
Just called landlord, said i wasnt paying rent for every day the kid is in the house, explained why and he said 'OH no, we had to give him a chance but i will move him out today"
It seems the kid has a history and clearly doesnt know how to live in civilised company.
...why is he a wild animal.
...the drug dealing slag...
I treated the kid as an adult, asked for his help with "our" problem, and made it clear though superior attitude and posturing that he had to find the solution.
I had hoped he would see the importance of acting resposibly, but when he pissed on the seat this morning, i knew the lesson wasnt learned, so the stick has come out and ive evicted him.
I dont need to say anything else :lol: I have my 'work' head on and so is best I give this thread a wide berth :thumbup: I dont think for one minute you should put up with the situation, but I dont think your appraoch is the best one, either.
I think you should have a word with your landlord hun. It's unacceptable for him to expect you to put up with this kid's behaviour as he's obviously not house trained in the slightest!
I'm all for the return of National Service and would have no qualms about my son spending 2 years doing it. Although he IS house trained and very respectful I think there is a need for ALL teenagers to be taught how to behave and some more than others are in dire need of some discipline.
I've already expressed my views in a previous thread about a 'Bad Lad's Army' style boot camp to be introduced for young offenders
I'm all for the return of National Service and would have no qualms about my son spending 2 years doing it. Although he IS house trained and very respectful I think there is a need for ALL teenagers to be taught how to behave and some more than others are in dire need of some discipline.
I've already expressed my views in a previous thread about a 'Bad Lad's Army' style boot camp to be introduced for young offenders
Well Darkfire, no matter how angry inside i am and whotever i write here, i havent been rude or lost my temper with the kid, ..his mate however got an earfull and with good reason. Ive just been downstairs to tell another door banger to bugger off. For all i know, the kid is a drug dealer, hes only been here 68 hours and his druggie mates are calling. JB and I have just got over the hassle at xmas.
If this kid has a history (of what sort i dont know) would it be appropriate for them to be in National service. Im all for national service as i think kids can learn alot from it, self respect,self sufficient, a trade, pride, but not all kids would be suited for it. Plain unruly ones yes but kids with emotional problems maybe no. I think they should make joining the service as opposed to national service more appealing to the youngters of today. Give them a good wage, make them aware of the exciting opportunities that can be had from it, ie travelling the world etc and maybe more would be willing to do it.
Louise xx
Louise xx
Quote by Geminifemale
It seems the kid has a history and clearly doesnt know how to live in civilised company.
Whos fault is this?, i know hes got a dad, possibly a mum too, so why is he a wild animal.
Yeah, i know some of you are parents of teenagers and your going to say they can be a handful, but im sure they dont behave like this?
Just because he's got parents doesn't mean he will be perfect. Perhaps he's never been taught how to socialise properly? A child will very often grow up to take on their parents values, so therefore if the parents were unsocial and had no manners, the child will probably carbon copy this.
It takes a patient person to try and help the lad rather than keep throwing them out onto the streets to go and find yet another home and maybe he seriously does not realise what he is doing wrong as no one is telling him?
But maybe he is just lazy, who knows but is anyone actually taking the time to find out?
I spent time in the forces. I had a tough, tough time. Because of my gender and also because the profession I had, had been "men only" until my joining.
I learnt a lot. Had a relatively good time. Really livedfor the time I was in.
Would I change it ? No.
would I wish it on anyone else ? No.
would I bring back national service? No.
Behaviour breeds behaviour. We as a society, shaped and tainted by a totally biased media, hold teenagers up as the vilest things to walk the earth. How do they shake off that image when it is perpetuated by blind f@@king ignorance in people who judge others randomly and with such damning, sanctimonious suggestions, as a national service.
The army "worked" for me. That doesn't mean that it would work for others.... and when you have cut someone down from their army belt fashioned as a noose... and you have cleaned up brains from the shooting range from another person for whom it didn't work... then tell me that someone with poor hygiene who may have also had a troubled life is going to be cured by marching around in green clothes.
get a flippin' grip.
I learnt a lot. Had a relatively good time. Really livedfor the time I was in.
Would I change it ? No.
would I wish it on anyone else ? No.
would I bring back national service? No.
Behaviour breeds behaviour. We as a society, shaped and tainted by a totally biased media, hold teenagers up as the vilest things to walk the earth. How do they shake off that image when it is perpetuated by blind f@@king ignorance in people who judge others randomly and with such damning, sanctimonious suggestions, as a national service.
The army "worked" for me. That doesn't mean that it would work for others.... and when you have cut someone down from their army belt fashioned as a noose... and you have cleaned up brains from the shooting range from another person for whom it didn't work... then tell me that someone with poor hygiene who may have also had a troubled life is going to be cured by marching around in green clothes.
get a flippin' grip.
Quote by Geminifemale
On Wednesday, all hell let loose when the landlord moved 2 kids in. Shes late teens, sheepish, hes late teens, cropped hair, gelled down, pasty white skin, constantly sniffing no doubt due to his sinuses rebelling at the nicotene cloud he lives in and looks shifty.
Gem, most teens these days have these characteristics. I really have to disagree with you on this occasion and say you cannot 'label' kids because of their looks. Constantly sniffing does not deem a kid to be 'sniffing glue' because of their pasty skin... check for sores around mouths and noses first before making that insinuation. Cropped gelled hair doesn't make for a bad lad either nor does p'ing on a seat.
On this occasion like I said in my earlier bit above, maybe it's just bad manners and lack of social skills rather than being classed as a "druggie".
Sorry on this occasion i'm not in agreeance with you...
Quote by louise_and_joe
I think they should make joining the service as opposed to national service more appealing to the youngters of today. Give them a good wage, make them aware of the exciting opportunities that can be had from it, ie travelling the world etc and maybe more would be willing to do it.
Louise xx
I couldn't agree more with the incentives mentioned here... and no disrespect whatsoever to those amongst our number who have played a part in our Forces, all power to ya...
but:
there is the little issue of fighting strange wars... and my cynical mind has the *Queen and Country* pride of old looking a little weery in the hands of our present-day *leaders*
however... as mentioned... the boot camp style training.. with incentives... could do a hell of a lot of good.
Again, I've nothing against the armed-forces per-se, just those behind the closed doors, somehwere safe, who don't have to face the consequences of their decissions....
:ben elton "bit of politics there" emoticon:
appologies... I'll go now
lp
Quote by splendid_
I spent time in the forces. I had a tough, tough time. Because of my gender and also because the profession I had, had been "men only" until my joining.
I learnt a lot. Had a relatively good time. Really lived for the time I was in.
Would I change it ? No.
would I wish it on anyone else ? No.
would I bring back national service? No.
Behaviour breeds behaviour. We as a society, shaped and tainted by a totally biased media, hold teenagers up as the vilest things to walk the earth. How do they shake off that image when it is perpetuated by blind f@@king ignorance in people who judge others randomly and with such damning, sanctimonious suggestions, as a national service.
The army "worked" for me. That doesn't mean that it would work for others.... and when you have cut someone down from their army belt fashioned as a noose... and you have cleaned up brains from the shooting range from another person for whom it didn't work... then tell me that someone with poor hygiene who may have also had a troubled life is going to be cured by marching around in green clothes.
get a flippin' grip.
Splendid, this is what i wrote earlier
"I wasnt thinking of national service in the 1950's sense of the word, but certainly some compulsary personal training to instill all the good qualities that seem to be lacking in majority of the youth of today."
We all remember stories from yesteryear of beastings by sadistic corporals, but have you seen any of the Brat Camp type TV progs where kids are helped to see the error of their ways by removing them from socity and isolating them so they have to face reality, and it transforms most into people they and others can be proud of, so it does work on all levels for all teens
This kid isnt rude or rebelious to me, but after making him see its wrong to leave a mess on the toilet seat, he did it again.
AS i also said, ive spoken with the landlord. The kid lived in another of landlords houses 2 streets from here and had to be moved out following complaints from neighbours to do with rowdy callers at all hours, damage to vehicles and property and all night parties. Im stamping down before it gets out of hand.
Im not social services, im not a charity and i do believe in second chances. He had one and blew it. This is MY home and i wont tollerate him for a moment longer and what happens after that isnt my concern, Im NOT social services or a charity
Quote by Scandal
Send them all off to Iraq where they can put bullets in little kiddies backs.
That'll sort the world out
Well out of order and an insult to all the British service personell who are the best trained and disciplined in the world and doing a damn good job they would rather not be doing.
If you feel that strongly about the war, see your democratically elected MP and make your comments to him/her.
How dare you insult our forces in such a way, and you obviously have no idea what its like in a war zone.
PS. My last bf was killed in Iraq, and so have 133 other british forces personell.
Quote by Geminifemale
Send them all off to Iraq where they can put bullets in little kiddies backs.
That'll sort the world out
Well out of order and an insult to all the British service personell who are the best trained and disciplined in the world and doing a damn good job they would rather not be doing.
PS. My last bf was killed in Iraq, and so have 133 other british forces personell.
just ignore him...an all new low for even you Scandal!
Sex God
Quote by Mr-Powers
Send them all off to Iraq where they can put bullets in little kiddies backs.
That'll sort the world out
Well out of order and an insult to all the British service personell who are the best trained and disciplined in the world and doing a damn good job they would rather not be doing.
PS. My last bf was killed in Iraq, and so have 133 other british forces personell.
just ignore him...an all new low for even you Scandal!
Agreed....
My colleagues used to take small groups of teenagers on Survival Weekends. It was run by army personell. It was also voluntary to attend.
They had to learn survival skills, build there own camp, bed, living area, fire etc. Learn how to find food (or kill it if need be) as the army rations they were given wasn't enough.
They didnt have a nice power shower or a toilet on hand either.. :shock: It was in the middle of no-where, with nothing to do on an evening...execpt nite walking activities, keeping your fire going etc
They werent allowed to take luxuries, luggage was checked to see they had brought basics as requested.
The weekends were meant to be a learning experiences in self development, inter personal skills, team skills etc etc. For most they were great, for the *hardened known troublemakers* it didnt have much effect in the short or long term at all...... the *offending status* they had previously stayed the same.
I know it was only a long weekend so maybe not long enough for any long term effet to have impact.
Finding funding for something like this is extremely difficuilt. Government wont pay or contribute...so who will?
As for the Brat Style Camps..... yeah I'd love to take a bunch of young peeps on one of them. Its the Tv programmes paying for this though, it makes good telly!! So again.......whose gong to pay for it? Anyone remember the outrage when Social Services sent a young lad to Africa??? Yet,it was in the same vein of Brat Camp (long before it existed).... loads complained and saw it as a luxury trip.
Im not sure what the answer is... one of the things that young people used to say a lot to me was *they want to be treated as an adult* and I replied, *to be treated as one, you have to behave like one*.
xanaisx
They had to learn survival skills, build there own camp, bed, living area, fire etc. Learn how to find food (or kill it if need be) as the army rations they were given wasn't enough.
They didnt have a nice power shower or a toilet on hand either.. :shock: It was in the middle of no-where, with nothing to do on an evening...execpt nite walking activities, keeping your fire going etc
They werent allowed to take luxuries, luggage was checked to see they had brought basics as requested.
The weekends were meant to be a learning experiences in self development, inter personal skills, team skills etc etc. For most they were great, for the *hardened known troublemakers* it didnt have much effect in the short or long term at all...... the *offending status* they had previously stayed the same.
I know it was only a long weekend so maybe not long enough for any long term effet to have impact.
Finding funding for something like this is extremely difficuilt. Government wont pay or contribute...so who will?
As for the Brat Style Camps..... yeah I'd love to take a bunch of young peeps on one of them. Its the Tv programmes paying for this though, it makes good telly!! So again.......whose gong to pay for it? Anyone remember the outrage when Social Services sent a young lad to Africa??? Yet,it was in the same vein of Brat Camp (long before it existed).... loads complained and saw it as a luxury trip.
Im not sure what the answer is... one of the things that young people used to say a lot to me was *they want to be treated as an adult* and I replied, *to be treated as one, you have to behave like one*.
xanaisx
Quote by Geminifemale
Send them all off to Iraq where they can put bullets in little kiddies backs.
That'll sort the world out
Well out of order and an insult to all the British service personell who are the best trained and disciplined in the world and doing a damn good job they would rather not be doing.
I agree. If your post was supposed to be ironic it hasn't worked that well, and I feel like crying everytime I picture those "kiddies"
Scandal is right... what the hell do you all think happens when you give poorly equipped people a loaded weapon ?? Do you think that it teaches them how not to snot on toilet seats? (when I say poorly equipped I mean emotionally, mentally, socially)
Do you all have any idea what the "training" in the armed forces does to those that aren't resiliant ? Those that aren't tough already. ?? It creates weaker, scared, frightened people. With loaded weapons.
Have a look at the news, properly.... not the glamorised, gung ho parts, the bits where our soldiers are getting court martialled for murdering and . No, this isn't the majority. It isn't even a fair proportion. But it is happening. And it is our wonderful troops.
I don't hide what I used to do. I don't regret it. But I do know the truth of it.
Do you all have any idea what the "training" in the armed forces does to those that aren't resiliant ? Those that aren't tough already. ?? It creates weaker, scared, frightened people. With loaded weapons.
Have a look at the news, properly.... not the glamorised, gung ho parts, the bits where our soldiers are getting court martialled for murdering and . No, this isn't the majority. It isn't even a fair proportion. But it is happening. And it is our wonderful troops.
I don't hide what I used to do. I don't regret it. But I do know the truth of it.
Quote by splendid_
Scandal is right... what the hell do you all think happens when you give poorly equipped people a loaded weapon ?? Do you think that it teaches them how not to snot on toilet seats? (when I say poorly equipped I mean emotionally, mentally, socially)
Spendid, he may be right in what HE thinks, and you may be right in agreeing with him, but he's NOT right for posting that on here especially about shooting kiddies, the wording could have been better, sorry. And before you retort, I'm in full agreement with and respect what you said about training side of things.
Quote by splendid_
Scandal is right... what the hell do you all think happens when you give poorly equipped people a loaded weapon ?? Do you think that it teaches them how not to snot on toilet seats? (when I say poorly equipped I mean emotionally, mentally, socially)
Do you all have any idea what the "training" in the armed forces does to those that aren't resiliant ? Those that aren't tough already. ?? It creates weaker, scared, frightened people. With loaded weapons.
An all those soldiers who have committed suicide when theyve come back home? Too many!
Sex God
Quote by splendid_
Scandal is right...
:shock:
Sorry but I have to disagree....
I believe his attempt at irony/humour whatever he wants to call it was in extremely bad taste and not really relevant to this thread as the initial post was not one suggesting all hoodies and ASBO recipiants(sp?) should be sent packing to a war zone to teach them how to behave socially....
*As an aside and in no way relevant to the topic*
How is a soldier supposed to act when faced with a "little Kiddie" who is armed every bit as well as he is and is more than willing to use his weapon
I'm not saying thats always the case but there are definately more good than bad within our armed forces.
