There you go again...."dressing sexy,looking attactive, walking down the street late at night"....what has what they wear got to do with it.......are you saying that all women should completely cover up,never wear makeup and never go out after dark......cause trust me thats not goner happen.
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Quote by da69ve
You seem to think that if a girl or woman who is wearing sexy clothes that she is asking for trouble,that is complete should be living in a society where women should feel safe no matter what they wear.......it doesn't make a slightest bit of difference what they wear to a .......
That's a very naive statement to make!
I agree that we should be living in a society where women should feel safe no matter what they wear... or more to the point, where they go and when... but the fact is we dont... so why take stupid risks?
You all seem to be focussing on the fact I've mentioned what women wear, and missing the point I was making, which was, that if they are out on their own late at night - or in some cases day - in remote places, they are at a greater risk of being . I can't believe that people have a problem with that... it's common sense!!
If a madman was on the streets with a gun (as happened some years ago in Hungerford), would you stand in front of him waving your arms and shouting, "go on shoot me then!" ???
:roll: Quote by barewolf
You seem to think that if a girl or woman who is wearing sexy clothes that she is asking for trouble,that is complete should be living in a society where women should feel safe no matter what they wear.......it doesn't make a slightest bit of difference what they wear to a .......
That's a very naive statement to make!
I agree that we should be living in a society where women should feel safe no matter what they wear... or more to the point, where they go and when... but the fact is we dont... so why take stupid risks?
You all seem to be focussing on the fact I've mentioned what women wear, and missing the point I was making, which was, that if they are out on their own late at night - or in some cases day - in remote places, they are at a greater risk of being . I can't believe that people have a problem with that... it's common sense!!
If a madman was on the streets with a gun (as happened some years ago in Hungerford), would you stand in front of him waving your arms and shouting, "go on shoot me then!" ???
:roll:i do totally understand the point you are trying to make, however its just not realistic, if all women went out in jeans and a jumper there would still be rapists, dressing sexy does not get u , a half dressed woman walking down the street will not turn a normal guy into a and if a guy is out looking for a woman he will not go home empty handed because noone was out in a short skirt that night, he'll just grab the nearist woman to him, its stupid to say we should not put ourselves at risk cause by doing that it would mean no woman goes out after dark unless in a big group? why should we have to do that, they are in the wrong not us so why should we be the ones who are being told we are in the wrong bacause of what we wear, who we are with etc
If a young girl get on her way home in a short skirt the chances are she would have still gotten if she had trousers on.
woman of all ages get not just 'young sexy' ones
Quote by barewolf
You seem to think that if a girl or woman who is wearing sexy clothes that she is asking for trouble,that is complete should be living in a society where women should feel safe no matter what they wear.......it doesn't make a slightest bit of difference what they wear to a .......
That's a very naive statement to make!
I agree that we should be living in a society where women should feel safe no matter what they wear... or more to the point, where they go and when... but the fact is we dont... so why take stupid risks?
You all seem to be focussing on the fact I've mentioned what women wear, and missing the point I was making, which was, that if they are out on their own late at night - or in some cases day - in remote places, they are at a greater risk of being . I can't believe that people have a problem with that... it's common sense!!
If a madman was on the streets with a gun (as happened some years ago in Hungerford), would you stand in front of him waving your arms and shouting, "go on shoot me then!" ???
:roll:If you hadn't brought up the fact they wear these kind of clothes then maybe it wouldn't have gone any matter what you wear ,where you walk there will always be rapists out there!
Quote by barewolf
You all seem to be focussing on the fact I've mentioned what women wear, and missing the point I was making, which was, that if they are out on their own late at night - or in some cases day - in remote places, they are at a greater risk of being . I can't believe that people have a problem with that... it's common sense!!:
You made a few points though Barewolf and they weren't all about being alone in the middle of nowhere. I think you are glossing over some of what you have said. I cant believe you dont understand why some of us have a problem with what you have said. You subscribe to your own view of common sense, but its one where for a woman society has to withdraw from freedom of sexual expression through clothing in case she catches the eye of a sick bastard. By that argument there are planty facets of society that would need to be changed, JUST IN CASE, we tempt a burglar, murderer, , hit and run driver, shoplifter, arsonist.........................
Quote by naughtynymphos1
i do totally understand the point you are trying to make, however its just not realistic, if all women went out in jeans and a jumper there would still be rapists, dressing sexy does not get u , a half dressed woman walking down the street will not turn a normal guy into a and if a guy is out looking for a woman he will not go home empty handed because noone was out in a short skirt that night, he'll just grab the nearist woman to him, its stupid to say we should not put ourselves at risk cause by doing that it would mean no woman goes out after dark unless in a big group? why should we have to do that, they are in the wrong not us so why should we be the ones who are being told we are in the wrong bacause of what we wear, who we are with etc
If a young girl get on her way home in a short skirt the chances are she would have still gotten if she had trousers on.
woman of all ages get not just 'young sexy' ones
Which just proves that you actuallydidn'tunderstand my point!
My point was nothing to do with what they wear! My point was, if a is on the prowl in a particular area and there are no women / girls in that area, he hasn't got anyone to has he??? If a woman puts herself in a position such as walking home on her own late at night in a place where she is vulnerable, she is putting herself at risk! I am not saying she is asking for it, or that it is her fault.I can't believe that supposedly sensible adults can't see the logic in that!
Quote by da69ve
If you hadn't brought up the fact they wear these kind of clothes then maybe it wouldn't have gone any matter what you wear ,where you walk there will always be rapists out there!
I didn't bring up that fact, I merely described a situation, in order to create a visual image in the readers mind. It was other people who chose to jump in and focus on the clothing aspect.
Quote by barewolf
i do totally understand the point you are trying to make, however its just not realistic, if all women went out in jeans and a jumper there would still be rapists, dressing sexy does not get u , a half dressed woman walking down the street will not turn a normal guy into a and if a guy is out looking for a woman he will not go home empty handed because noone was out in a short skirt that night, he'll just grab the nearist woman to him, its stupid to say we should not put ourselves at risk cause by doing that it would mean no woman goes out after dark unless in a big group? why should we have to do that, they are in the wrong not us so why should we be the ones who are being told we are in the wrong bacause of what we wear, who we are with etc
If a young girl get on her way home in a short skirt the chances are she would have still gotten if she had trousers on.
woman of all ages get not just 'young sexy' ones
Which just proves that you actuallydidn'tunderstand my point!
My point was nothing to do with what they wear! My point was, if a is on the prowl in a particular area and there are no women / girls in that area, he hasn't got anyone to has he??? If a woman puts herself in a position such as walking home on her own late at night in a place where she is vulnerable, she is putting herself at risk! I am not saying she is asking for it, or that it is her fault.I can't believe that supposedly sensible adults can't see the logic in that!
i suggest you re read what you have posted in its entirety as you really have made quite a bit of reference to what women wear.
i think you will find a lot of us actually are sensible and safety is something of paramount importance to a lot of people on this site.. there is no supposedly about it.
Quote by fluffer
You made a few points though Barewolf and they weren't all about being alone in the middle of nowhere. I think you are glossing over some of what you have said. I cant believe you dont understand why some of us have a problem with what you have said. You subscribe to your own view of common sense, but its one where for a woman society has to withdraw from freedom of sexual expression through clothing in case she catches the eye of a sick bastard. By that argument there are planty facets of society that would need to be changed, JUST IN CASE, we tempt a burglar, murderer, , hit and run driver, shoplifter, arsonist.........................
No, I made one point. The one that was, women could be more careful and not put themselves at risk where it could be avoided. Any reference to clothing or attractiveness was merely pointing out that they would perhaps stand out more. Not that it would incite anyone to them. The point SINGLE point I made was, if a woman is NOT in a remote or quiet place, on her own, where she is a potential target for a , she is less likely to get ! I think you'll find that's the advice the police give out. It may well be a sad world we live in where women don't have the freedom to go where they please without the risk of being attacked, but it is a fact that these maniacxs are out there, so why take the risk?
Quote by fluffer
i suggest you re read what you have posted in its entirety as you really have made quite a bit of reference to what women wear.
I just did, and it isvery clear in the first two paragraphs of my initial post on this subject that I was saying women should not put themselves in a situation where they are at risk, and I clearly stated that what they do and don't wear is not an excuse!
Quote by barewolf
No, I made one point. The one that was, women could be more careful and not put themselves at risk where it could be avoided. Any reference to clothing or attractiveness was merely pointing out that they would perhaps stand out more. Not that it would incite anyone to them. The point SINGLE point I made was, if a woman is NOT in a remote or quiet place, on her own, where she is a potential target for a , she is less likely to get ! I think you'll find that's the advice the police give out. It may well be a sad world we live in where women don't have the freedom to go where they please without the risk of being attacked, but it is a fact that these maniacxs are out there, so why take the risk?
I think you are kiding yourself that the ONLY point you made was about women not being in a quiet place on her own. If that was the SINGLE point you wanted to make then you really should have gone about it in a different way. Anyone knows that we dont walk down a dark alley on our own.. the same goes for men too. It is a sad fact that there are murderers as well as rapists out there, and I never walk anywhere alone if I can help it.
But this is really not the picture that your original post was painting. I think perhaps you should take a bit more care over the words you use, and make sure you are being very clear about your main point and not get into areas where you are clearly treading on dangerous ground (taking some of you own advice perhaps?)
Quote by fluffer
I think you are kiding yourself that the ONLY point you made was about women not being in a quiet place on her own. If that was the SINGLE point you wanted to make then you really should have gone about it in a different way. Anyone knows that we dont walk down a dark alley on our own.. the same goes for men too. It is a sad fact that there are murderers as well as rapists out there, and I never walk anywhere alone if I can help it.
But this is really not the picture that your original post was painting. I think perhaps you should take a bit more care over the words you use, and make sure you are being very clear about your main point and not get into areas where you are clearly treading on dangerous ground (taking some of you own advice perhaps?)
Dangerous ground?? What, by voicing my opinion, and by making a legitimate point in a web forum?
How can making a suggestion that women take more care, with their inrterest at heart, put me in dangerous ground? "Anyone knows that we dont walk down a dark alley on our own.." But they still do it, why?
And that's my point! "It is a sad fact that there are murderers as well as rapists out there, and I never walk anywhere alone if I can help it." But some women do, and I repeat, that's my point!No I'm not kidding myself, I know exactly what point I was making and the way I wanted to make it! To anyone with a reasonable understanding of English, it should have been perfectly clear what my point was, and that any other references were there to simply embelish that point! There's nothing wrong with the words I used. And I don't understand why you are getting so uptight about the clothing aspect. The fact is sexy clothing will make a woman more noticeable, so in a way it is relevant. Even though I agree it isn't an invitation to !
By the way, I've had some PM's from women who agree with me.. I've also just discussed it with a woman friend on the phone, and she agreed with me too!
Quote by barewolf
I think you are kiding yourself that the ONLY point you made was about women not being in a quiet place on her own. If that was the SINGLE point you wanted to make then you really should have gone about it in a different way. Anyone knows that we dont walk down a dark alley on our own.. the same goes for men too. It is a sad fact that there are murderers as well as rapists out there, and I never walk anywhere alone if I can help it.
But this is really not the picture that your original post was painting. I think perhaps you should take a bit more care over the words you use, and make sure you are being very clear about your main point and not get into areas where you are clearly treading on dangerous ground (taking some of you own advice perhaps?)
Dangerous ground?? What, by voicing my opinion, and by making a legitimate point in a web forum?
How can making a suggestion that women take more care, with their inrterest at heart, put me in dangerous ground? "Anyone knows that we dont walk down a dark alley on our own.." But they still do it, why?
And that's my point! "It is a sad fact that there are murderers as well as rapists out there, and I never walk anywhere alone if I can help it." But some women do, and I repeat, that's my point!No I'm not kidding myself, I know exactly what point I was making and the way I wanted to make it! To anyone with a reasonable understanding of English, it should have been perfectly clear what my point was, and that any other references were there to simply embelish that point! There's nothing wrong with the words I used. And I don't understand why you are getting so uptight about the clothing aspect. The fact is sexy clothing will make a woman more noticeable, so in a way it is relevant. Even though I agree it isn't an invitation to !
By the way, I've had some PM's from women who agree with me.. I've also just discussed it with a woman friend on the phone, and she agreed with me too!
No, BW, not dangerous ground by voicing your opinion, of course not. Freedom is what I am in favour of. I am talking about your remarks about women's dress being dangerous ground, as well you know.
I do have a perfectly good understanding of English, however your points were picked up on by a few people so they must not have been quite as crystal as you had intended.
If you dont understand why some of us are getting upset about your remarks in your original post by now then I cant see the point in wasting any more time talking about it.
A few have tried to discuss the issue but I think its best if we just agree to disagree.
Quote by SXBOY
barewolf versus fluffer
for the in augoral swingingheaven world middleweight boxing title
hell no.. that's really not my intention. i feel very strongly about the issue that's all but i dont want to carry on when we disagree so clearly so best to quit now. Barewolf is entitled to his opinion, and he can have it, but its not one I share, well parts of it...I agree with a fair bit of what he is saying, but not all of it.
please dont make this into a fight as that was really the last thing I wanted to get involved in.
but i cant continue if people's "supposed intelligence" and "command of the english language" are going to get called into question. Its just not cricket.
Im off to go to ther corner shop, on my own, in a short skirt...and yes, i am waving a big flag to all rapists out there..but its really sunny and my jeans and sweatshirt are in the wash.
Quote by fluffer
If you dont understand why some of us are getting upset about your remarks in your original post by now then I cant see the point in wasting any more time talking about it. A few have tried to discuss the issue but I think its best if we just agree to disagree.
Well explain exactly what remarks upset you and why!
Quote by fluffer
barewolf versus fluffer
for the in augoral swingingheaven world middleweight boxing title
hell no.. that's really not my intention. i feel very strongly about the issue that's all but i dont want to carry on when we disagree so clearly so best to quit now. Barewolf is entitled to his opinion, and he can have it, but its not one I share, well parts of it...I agree with a fair bit of what he is saying, but not all of it.
ooooooooo i was going to get me hotdogs out again then
Quote by barewolf
If you hadn't brought up the fact they wear these kind of clothes then maybe it wouldn't have gone any matter what you wear ,where you walk there will always be rapists out there!
I didn't bring up that fact, I merely described a situation, in order to create a visual image in the readers mind. It was other people who chose to jump in and focus on the clothing aspect.
You did bring it up and pointed it out as a reason for possibly getting !
Quote by barewolf
i do totally understand the point you are trying to make, however its just not realistic, if all women went out in jeans and a jumper there would still be rapists, dressing sexy does not get u , a half dressed woman walking down the street will not turn a normal guy into a and if a guy is out looking for a woman he will not go home empty handed because noone was out in a short skirt that night, he'll just grab the nearist woman to him, its stupid to say we should not put ourselves at risk cause by doing that it would mean no woman goes out after dark unless in a big group? why should we have to do that, they are in the wrong not us so why should we be the ones who are being told we are in the wrong bacause of what we wear, who we are with etc
If a young girl get on her way home in a short skirt the chances are she would have still gotten if she had trousers on.
woman of all ages get not just 'young sexy' ones
Which just proves that you actuallydidn'tunderstand my point!
My point was nothing to do with what they wear! My point was, if a is on the prowl in a particular area and there are no women / girls in that area, he hasn't got anyone to has he??? If a woman puts herself in a position such as walking home on her own late at night in a place where she is vulnerable, she is putting herself at risk! I am not saying she is asking for it, or that it is her fault.I can't believe that supposedly sensible adults can't see the logic in that!
i do understand what you are saying, and u have made a lot of refferance to what women wear, in one post even saying 'her tits was out' and 'you could see her pants (what little of them there was)' (so u look close enogh to see how small her knicker was didn't you
) i do understand what u mean by if there are no women in the village there are no women to , but why the hell should we hide away just cause its dark, life don't stop cause there are rapists out there, if its late at night and we have to get home and walkings the only way then we have to bloody well walk end of Quote by da69ve
You did bring it up and pointed it out as a reason for possibly getting !
No I didn't! Not in any interpretation of my statement could you think that I said the way a girl dressed could lead to getting her !
I merely described a few scenarios I had seen and mentioned what the women were wearing. I did not say that was the reason they might get .
I don't know how many times I have to say it, but, my clear point was that women could take preventative measures by not putting themselves in a potentially risky situation.
Quote by barewolf
You did bring it up and pointed it out as a reason for possibly getting !
No I didn't! Not in any interpretation of my statement could you think that I said the way a girl dressed could lead to getting her !
I merely described a few scenarios I had seen and mentioned what the women were wearing. I did not say that was the reason they might get .
I don't know how many times I have to say it, but, my clear point was that women could take preventative measures by not putting themselves in a potentially risky situation.
But even that implies that what women wear could put them into a potentially risky situation. Why describe the scenarios if they have no bearing on what you're saying?
Jas
XXX
Quote by barewolf
You did bring it up and pointed it out as a reason for possibly getting !
No I didn't! Not in any interpretation of my statement could you think that I said the way a girl dressed could lead to getting her !
I merely described a few scenarios I had seen and mentioned what the women were wearing. I did not say that was the reason they might get .
I don't know how many times I have to say it, but, my clear point was that women could take preventative measures by not putting themselves in a potentially risky situation.
Then why bring up such scenarios if that was not a prime reason for putting themselves at risk of getting ?
Quote by barewolf
You did bring it up and pointed it out as a reason for possibly getting !
No I didn't! Not in any interpretation of my statement could you think that I said the way a girl dressed could lead to getting her !
I merely described a few scenarios I had seen and mentioned what the women were wearing. I did not say that was the reason they might get .
I don't know how many times I have to say it, but, my clear point was that women could take preventative measures by not putting themselves in a potentially risky situation.
you one of your earlier posts you said that woman could take preventative measures not to get and in every example u gave u included what they was wearing, that being shorts skirts etc, so if your not including what they are wearing in proventative measures what did you mean by that? and why bring what they had on in the first place
Whenever my partner goes out,i always worry of something happening,but i will never tell her what she can wear or what she cannot wear, to me that will not make a blind bit of difference,but i do drum it in to her to stay with her friends at all times,make sure there is always two of them in a cab at the same like these help to reduce anything happening.
Quote by naughtynymphos1
i do understand what you are saying, and u have made a lot of refferance to what women wear, in one post even saying 'her tits was out' and 'you could see her pants (what little of them there was)' (so u look close enogh to see how small her knicker was didn't you
That was the girl I picked up and gave a lift to somewhere safe because she looked vulnerable. I was simply describing the situation and the way she was dressed was quite relevant to the description of the scenario. Like it or not, her top was falling open exposing her tits and and her short skirt had ridden up exposing her pants. She was sitting right next to me in my car, she was drunk, and I made sure she put her seat belt on, so I couldn't really help noticing.
I'm not pointing the blame at women for what they wear, and believe me, I'm all for women wearing skimpy, sexy clothes. I certainly don't think it is any excuse for a to them or for anyone to touch them in any way without invitation. But surely you can see the logic in not going somewhere where you are vulnerable to a , and particularly if you are dressed in a way that might just draw attention to you more?
I notice that you are from Newcastle (I assume that's Newcastle in the , not Staffs?)... Well there was something on the news last week or the week before about a series of rapes of women going home from nights out there. A police spokesman on the programme pointed out that some girls were still taking the risk of walking home alone, despite these attacks going on. Mt point! But he also pointed out that these girls were usually wearing short skirts and reavealing tops etc, making them prime targets (his words not mine) and suggested that as more reason to get a lift or a taxi home rather than walk! I don't think there was any suggestion that they shouldn't be free to dress how they want to!
But that was absolutely not what my point was intended to suggest!
Sexlightened
I'm not being flippant but how does the woman take it out without impaling her fingers.I mean if it is like a tampon with a string the guy might spot it and just remove it.
Quote by Jas-Tim
But even that implies that what women wear could put them into a potentially risky situation. Why describe the scenarios if they have no bearing on what you're saying?
Jas
XXX
I don't think it implies that at all. It certainly wasn't intended to. And when describing a scenario to someone the intention is to create an accurate picture of what I saw. The scenarios do have a bearing, and what the women were wearing is a minor point that may or may not have some relevance, which I would leave to the reader to decide.
I think that some people here have latched on to something that has little relevance, blown my comments about the way these various women were dressed, way out of proportion, and it's distracting from the point I was making!
Quote by barewolf
i do understand what you are saying, and u have made a lot of refferance to what women wear, in one post even saying 'her tits was out' and 'you could see her pants (what little of them there was)' (so u look close enogh to see how small her knicker was didn't you
That was the girl I picked up and gave a lift to somewhere safe because she looked vulnerable. I was simply describing the situation and the way she was dressed was quite relevant to the description of the scenario. Like it or not, her top was falling open exposing her tits and and her short skirt had ridden up exposing her pants. She was sitting right next to me in my car, she was drunk, and I made sure she put her seat belt on, so I couldn't really help noticing.
I'm not pointing the blame at women for what they wear, and believe me, I'm all for women wearing skimpy, sexy clothes. I certainly don't think it is any excuse for a to them or for anyone to touch them in any way without invitation. But surely you can see the logic in not going somewhere where you are vulnerable to a , and particularly if you are dressed in a way that might just draw attention to you more?
I notice that you are from Newcastle (I assume that's Newcastle in the , not Staffs?)... Well there was something on the news last week or the week before about a series of rapes of women going home from nights out there. A police spokesman on the programme pointed out that some girls were still taking the risk of walking home alone, despite these attacks going on. Mt point! But he also pointed out that these girls were usually wearing short skirts and reavealing tops etc, making them prime targets (his words not mine) and suggested that as more reason to get a lift or a taxi home rather than walk! I don't think there was any suggestion that they shouldn't be free to dress how they want to!
But that was absolutely not what my point was intended to suggest!
where did you get i was from newcastle from? :lol:
