Over-Regulated

1 Aug 2006

Quote by firelizard
I have said it before, but I do find the site oddly restrictive. I understand your comment about feeling like you need a Legal team in the Forum sometimes.
Whether itâ€™s something to do with my dislike of rules mongering, or just a real or imagined misunderstanding of the rules and how they work on my part, I donâ€™t know.
However, throwing ALL the rules away is never a good idea, people will self regulate up to a point, but after that it just becomes chaotic.
Itâ€™s been far too long since you stopped posting btw, I have missed perving your avatar.

Stormwalker

Thanks for the message. We sound like Kkndred spirits. Please feel free to perve. I was going to exchange Lene's pic, with a pic of our cat, but as Lene's bum seems to have a fan i'll leave it as it is. :wink:
lol

Just for the record, as I am a devout bottom man, the rest of her is pretty special too surprised

ops:
Stormwalker :thumbup:
Thank you for the compliment. We will have to take some more pics for you.

1 Aug 2006

Quote by Jon

Sorry Jon, But when did anyone ever read all the rules before doing anything, ever!!!!
It is simply never done; if it were done I wouldnâ€™t be on SH now. Iâ€™d still be reading the rules and regulations that came with my first credit card at age 18 â€¦
Stormwalker

Surely even applying a small degree of common sense, and having had a 'lurk' about before posting will have given anyone a small understanding of what is/isn't acceptable dunno

A small understanding maybe, but not a definitive one.
I don't think for one moment anyone studies the rules at great length upon joining, and in most cases, at all for that matter (unless they wish to argue a point in the rules rolleyes

).
The rules are there to protect the site members, AND the owners, and to go a long way to ensuring people are able to enjoy the site in full, without prejudice or harassment.
Anyone who does not bother to even take a cusory glance at the rules cannot (in my opinion) whinge if they get a post deleted/locked/moved etc. or find themselves booted/banned from chat rooms
A cursory glance at the rules will only give a cursory understanding, to truly understand the rules you have to not only understand them all, but also the intent of the rule, its application and enforcement.
Stormwalker smile

1 Aug 2006

I think some valid points have been made throughout this thread....one minor point I'd like to raise is that sometimes the AUP is applied a little inconsistently.
Jon quite rightly pointed out that it states you can have someone else on cam as long as they consent to the rules, and yet in a previous thread a chatroom op questioned that fact that a member had been on cam with another user because she wasn't a paid member and therefore didn't have her own independent access to the chatroom. The AUP doesn't have any revision information so I have no idea whether it's been changed since that thread. I've not posted the threadlink here because it adds little value, but can provide it in a PM if a Mod or Op wants to know more.
This is not a dig at anyone in particular - I've raised it simply to flag that sometimes mixed messages can get communicated to members.
We all have off days and I can imagine the frustration for a Mod or Op having to repeat something for the umpteenth time when the information is already available on the site. Inexperienced members sometimes need a little helping hand to understand where they are going wrong.

Quote by Jon

Using or viewing webcams:
* By using a webcam you give consent for others to watch what is displayed on it
* You fully understand that other members can see what you display on it
* No one that is, or appears to be under the age of 18 can be displayed on cam
* You should only display yourself, if you have someone else on the cam they should consent to these rules, if you show someone else on cam and they have not consented to these rules your account may be deactivated.
* No illegal activities are allowed to be undertaken or displayed on cam
* No minors can be viewed on cam even if it a baby etc in the background
* Playing any type of video across your web cam is strictly prohibited
* You must not leave web cams unattended for more than 10 minutes
* Webcams facing towards TVs, Lamps, or other household objects will be considered unattended after 10 minutes.

1 Aug 2006

Quote by McrM4M-pvtOK
I think some valid points have been made throughout this thread....one minor point I'd like to raise is that sometimes the AUP is applied a little inconsistently..... This is not a dig at anyone in particular - I've raised it simply to flag that sometimes mixed messages can get communicated to members....

I'm sorry to agree with this, but honestly I do agree! I feel I now understand the rules of SH but sometimes they don't always apply to everybody all the times - which confuses me!

1 Aug 2006

Quote by McrM4M-pvtOK
Inexperienced members sometimes need a little helping hand to understand where they are going wrong.

Sorry to quote just this part and I really dont want to take away any value from the rest of your post, but I really do feel that this bit is very important and is relevant to ALL of us, Mods, Ops, Users.
I think that sometimes we all need reminding that we were new once and didnt know how to use the site, how to do a post etc.
Perhaps we all could be a little more considerate with our posts and how we come across to other members of the site wink

1 Aug 2006

Quote by Naughty Wigan Couple
Inexperienced members sometimes need a little helping hand to understand where they are going wrong.

Sorry to quote just this part and I really dont want to take away any value from the rest of your post, but I really do feel that this bit is very important and is relevant to ALL of us, Mods, Ops, Users.
I think that sometimes we all need reminding that we were new once and didnt know how to use the site, how to do a post etc.
Perhaps we all could be a little more considerate with our posts and how we come across to other members of the site wink

1 Aug 2006

Quote by Steve_Mids

I think my experience regarding chatrooms is influenced by the chatting I used to do years ago in the early days of the net using software, like the software that used to power the old SH chatroom. I loved the freedom of those rooms. Of course there was a downside as there is through out the freedom of the Internet.

The main frame of the chatroom rules are carried over from the old mIRC room that used to run here..
No whispering(pm'ing in mIRC) without permission
No capitals (shouting and considered rude)
No email addresses in the main room
No web addresses in the main room
Be polite
No abuse will be tolerated
No drugs talk...
Some rules that are in force now are new and have had to be introduced due to the advent of cams in the chatrooms..
.
Thanks Steve, I think this is quite a good example. Now those rules are simple and easy to get my head around, even after a beer, or if I am a moron. They are short clear and sensible. Not at all over the top or restrictive. If I saw those rules I would be ready for chat. But now, if II look at the rules for the chatroom. Well, there are soooo many. In fact there are two lots of rules, the chatroom T&Cs and the Site AUP. I did a WordCount on it (Yes I am that sad) and the combined rules are nearly 2000 words, and that is just to use the chatroom.

1 Aug 2006

Quote by Sassy-Seren
Inexperienced members sometimes need a little helping hand to understand where they are going wrong.

Sorry to quote just this part and I really dont want to take away any value from the rest of your post, but I really do feel that this bit is very important and is relevant to ALL of us, Mods, Ops, Users.
I think that sometimes we all need reminding that we were new once and didnt know how to use the site, how to do a post etc.
Perhaps we all could be a little more considerate with our posts and how we come across to other members of the site wink

Spot on Mcrm4m and NWC :thumbup:

1 Aug 2006

Quote by TimandLene

I think my experience regarding chatrooms is influenced by the chatting I used to do years ago in the early days of the net using software, like the software that used to power the old SH chatroom. I loved the freedom of those rooms. Of course there was a downside as there is through out the freedom of the Internet.

The main frame of the chatroom rules are carried over from the old mIRC room that used to run here..
No whispering(pm'ing in mIRC) without permission
No capitals (shouting and considered rude)
No email addresses in the main room
No web addresses in the main room
Be polite
No abuse will be tolerated
No drugs talk...
Some rules that are in force now are new and have had to be introduced due to the advent of cams in the chatrooms..
.
Thanks Steve, I think this is quite a good example. Now those rules are simple and easy to get my head around, even after a beer, or if I am a moron. They are short clear and sensible. Not at all over the top or restrictive. If I saw those rules I would be ready for chat. But now, if II look at the rules for the chatroom. Well, there are soooo many. In fact there are two lots of rules, the chatroom T&Cs and the Site AUP. I did a WordCount on it (Yes I am that sad) and the combined rules are nearly 2000 words, and that is just to use the chatroom.
Lets be honest about it for a minute...
A lot of it is basic common sense and good manners...
Add to that nothing illegal may be discussed or shown and you have a good soild foundation from which to work...
When Shireen and I joined the site almost 3 yrs ago we did actually sit down and read the chatroom rules from start to finish :shock: as it was a new site to us we wanted to be sure where we stood from the start and also the rules set out give some indication as to what the site is like..........Well I think so anyway......... smile

1 Aug 2006

I wasn't going to mention the fact that we had actually read the rules redface

ops:

1 Aug 2006

Quote by Shireen_Mids
I wasn't going to mention the fact that we had actually read the rules ops:

Swat!

Stormy

1 Aug 2006

Quote by firelizard
I wasn't going to mention the fact that we had actually read the rules ops:

Swat!

Stormy
Now that is the way to motivate me. Turn it into a quiz/test and suddenly I will obsess about memorizing every rule and its interpretation. lol

1 Aug 2006

Quote by firelizard
I wasn't going to mention the fact that we had actually read the rules ops:

Swat!

Stormy
Bugger off flipa

:lol2:

1 Aug 2006

Quote by Naughty Wigan Couple
Inexperienced members sometimes need a little helping hand to understand where they are going wrong.

Sorry to quote just this part and I really dont want to take away any value from the rest of your post, but I really do feel that this bit is very important and is relevant to ALL of us, Mods, Ops, Users.
I think that sometimes we all need reminding that we were new once and didnt know how to use the site, how to do a post etc.
Perhaps we all could be a little more considerate with our posts and how we come across to other members of the site wink

ops: :oops:
i'm a baddy!! I think I might know what you're referring to...
*Bends over to recieve her punishment
smackbottom

I try not to as I got this when I was new, and so did den ( I chatted in forums before he did) so know it's not nice when it's soo blatant, I will be a good girl from now on!
I have even started replying with some lovely pms to all the unwanted pms we have been getting recently!
Guilt will make you do anything eh?!
Anyways, I think a few, quick bold rules so that blondes like moi who are space cadettes and don;t pay attention/are in a world of their own, might notice them and pay attention, and then a wee spiel to say why a rule has been broken is a great idea!
I don't think it's overregulated, just sometimes notice some appeared tired with doing the regulating.
Whilst that is entirely understandable - we all get frustrated with stupid/wrong etc posts, and we're not having to put up with it constantly, at the same time, people dont learn from getting shouted at!
ok, gin waffle is taking over now!

1 Aug 2006

Personally I think that as we have about half a million members the rules stand up pretty well. They have been developed over time to suit the conditions and as a consequence this site runs well, OK perhaps there could be a a bit of lee way in some areas, but generally speaking it works fine.
Mods and Ops do a good job on the whole, OK now and then it gets a bit ragged at the edges, but hey, they are only human. Ive had my fair share of whinges but someone has usually taken me on one side to explain the whys of the situation. Itys not often I'm still snappy after Ive been enlightened.
If it aint bust dont fix it.

1 Aug 2006

Quote by Reikiradical
If it aint bust dont fix it.

:thumbup:

1 Aug 2006

As far as I can see the only real changes/things of note are....
Some changes to the rules reguarding socials and whos allowed to attend, or requires removal of the social posting (although I think they may have come into force just prior to site hand over)
The tightning up of what kind of links are allowed in posts and sigs, although there is some lee-way with regards to personal sites that have a way of contacting the poster directly that isnt defined.
I got caught out with a couple of photos I posted reciently as I had forgot to doctor them and move them to my bits and bobs gallery (I was pissed at the time of posting, thats my excuse) as they had my "commercial" website address on them even tho i'm still to make money from my photography as i'm such a wuss when it comes to discussing getting paid, lol.
There may be changes in the chat rooms, but I never went into them with the old site... so cant comment.
I can understand the change in contact info being public as it makes people pay to make contact... but perhaps a bit of logic in the pre-processor to html would make it easier as then direct contact info can be entered for people that dont mind their direct contact details being public if the viewer and poster were both full members.
Apart from the above I dont think theres really been that many changes bar the ones related to cameras being used as this was, I believe, not an option prior to the site hand over.

2 Aug 2006

Quote by Naughty Wigan Couple
Sorry to quote just this part and I really dont want to take away any value from the rest of your post <snip>

Help yourself to whatever you want :bounce:

2 Aug 2006

the only thing i would change about the chatroom.. if it were possible, would be to add a page between the click for the chatrooms, and entering the chatroom....the page i would add there would be the chatroom T and C's....that way people could not use ignorance as an excuse....and if they then break the rules and get booted, they have no one else to blame but themselves.....
sean.....another one who read the rules before posting... redface

ops: :oops:

2 Aug 2006

Quote by fabio grooverider
the only thing i would change about the chatroom.. if it were possible, would be to add a page between the click for the chatrooms, and entering the chatroom....the page i would add there would be the chatroom T and C's....that way people could not use ignorance as an excuse....and if they then break the rules and get booted, they have no one else to blame but themselves.....
sean.....another one who read the rules before posting... ops: :oops:

As far as I'm concerned they have ample opportunity to read them any way..
If they dont bother then as you say.......Its their problem...

2 Aug 2006

Quote by fabio grooverider
the only thing i would change about the chatroom.. if it were possible, would be to add a page between the click for the chatrooms, and entering the chatroom....the page i would add there would be the chatroom T and C's....that way people could not use ignorance as an excuse....and if they then break the rules and get booted, they have no one else to blame but themselves.....
sean.....another one who read the rules before posting... ops: :oops:

Now THAT is a good idea :thumbup:

2 Aug 2006

Just an example of why the rules ect
Last night i entered a room. One of the pool or beach bar and there was a fem in ther who is a forum user and is new here. She was getting all manner of unasked whispers from the guys. In the end i said follow me to the jacuzzi in a requested whisper as the room was empty. We were joined by a couple of guys and spent the night there and it was a very good nights chat and i thank them all for that.
The pink X next to her name made her a sitting target which im having doubts over now as to if they are wise. Problem is without the male female icons would maybe make it awkward.

2 Aug 2006

perhaps it is a bit over regulated there can always be improvement but fairdues
they have to consider everyone and the rules are there to help us all inthe long run so if you think some rules are unfair or unjust then write tell them that way change happens biggrin

2 Aug 2006

Quote by goose35
Last night i entered a room. One of the pool or beach bar and there was a fem in ther who is a forum user and is new here. She was getting all manner of unasked whispers from the guys. In the end i said follow me to the jacuzzi in a requested whisper as the room was empty. We were joined by a couple of guys and spent the night there and it was a very good nights chat and i thank them all for that.
The pink X next to her name made her a sitting target which im having doubts over now as to if they are wise. Problem is without the male female icons would maybe make it awkward.

And I love you for doing that Goose.
**makes mental note to consider stalking Goose**

2 Aug 2006

Quote by Abilene
Last night i entered a room. One of the pool or beach bar and there was a fem in ther who is a forum user and is new here. She was getting all manner of unasked whispers from the guys. In the end i said follow me to the jacuzzi in a requested whisper as the room was empty. We were joined by a couple of guys and spent the night there and it was a very good nights chat and i thank them all for that.
The pink X next to her name made her a sitting target which im having doubts over now as to if they are wise. Problem is without the male female icons would maybe make it awkward.

And I love you for doing that Goose.
**makes mental note to consider stalking Goose**
Thnk you for staying with us and making the evening good.

2 Aug 2006

Quote by goose35
Thnk you for staying with us and making the evening good.

It was my pleasure. Who would have thought I would have gotten such good technical advice too!!!
Oh y'all get your minds out of the gutter ... I am talking about web cams!!!!

2 Aug 2006

Quote by fabio grooverider
the only thing i would change about the chatroom.. if it were possible, would be to add a page between the click for the chatrooms, and entering the chatroom....the page i would add there would be the chatroom T and C's....that way people could not use ignorance as an excuse....and if they then break the rules and get booted, they have no one else to blame but themselves.....
sean.....another one who read the rules before posting... ops: :oops:

That sounds like a very good idea, it would make them much more prominent.

2 Aug 2006

Quote by rob-oxford
perhaps it is a bit over regulated there can always be improvement but fairdues
they have to consider everyone and the rules are there to help us all inthe long run so if you think some rules are unfair or unjust then write tell them that way change happens

I tried that Rob, lets just say they disagreed. It is their site so fair enough.

2 Aug 2006

Quote by Steve_Mids
the only thing i would change about the chatroom.. if it were possible, would be to add a page between the click for the chatrooms, and entering the chatroom....the page i would add there would be the chatroom T and C's....that way people could not use ignorance as an excuse....and if they then break the rules and get booted, they have no one else to blame but themselves.....
sean.....another one who read the rules before posting... ops: :oops:

As far as I'm concerned they have ample opportunity to read them any way..
If they dont bother then as you say.......Its their problem...
There are two schools of thought on this. There is the argument that the consumer should have read the terms and conditions and the argument that the company should make its terms and conditions as prominent as possible to the consumer. I am thinking in the terms of a consumer as some people are now paying a subscription and a ban means a denial of a paid service.
Companies often want to hide T&Cs (for example have you ever noticed on a TV advert how a company will flash up some T&Cs they are required to display very quickly and in tiny text so that you have little opportunity to read it), regulators/quangos and consumer watch dogs usually push to make these more prominent. The T&Cs are prominent here, but personally I feel that actually forcing the user to open the T&Cs before entering the chatroom improves prominence greatlyand could even make policing the rooms easier. The spin side is that people might find it annoying having to scroll through the T&Cs before they can chat, but I wouldn't find it a significant inconvenience. Would other people find this inconvenient, or would you accept it, in the hope that it helped people to be better behaved?
People tend to scroll when confronted with large amounts of text, so I think the shorter and clearer the T&Cs the better. Prominence can be further improved by increasing the number of windows to click through with T&Cs, (I mean splitting the T&Cs up over pages like a slide show) but I think this would be serious overkill.
It might be an interesting experiment to try if for a month and see if the people behave more, or if we are still naughty smile

2 Aug 2006

Quote by mazandden
ops: :oops:
i'm a baddy!! I think I might know what you're referring to...
*Bends over to recieve her punishment

I can honestly say this was NOT aimed at you or at anyone else, so please dont think it was. As I said, we are all guilty of it, intentional or otherwise, and I know in the past I have put something which seem funny to me, only to read it later and cringe with embarrasement. I dont supose for one minute I am the only person who has done that!
However, if you really want the punishment, it can be arranged wink