PC in critical condition!!! i'm offline!!! aarrgghh!! help!

26 Jul 2004

guys, a long and impossibly tedious post now follows, for which i apologise profusely, but i can't possibly pm JQL again with a technical question, after his help all week with yet another pc problem! sooooo would anyone else like a stab at it??? ;-)
a perfectly good, perfectly working PIII, available to me on fairly advantageous terms, has not been the same since being dropped onto a bed during a routine surgical procedure. ((( swapping out a modem! and t'was not me i might add!!! ))) it has refused to work in one way or another ever since. given that i'm still running a P133, i'm quite keen to get the bleeder running!((( USB??? graphics card??? stereo sound??? versions of windows with letters after the . . erm . . windows bit??? what's all that then!!! dunno

)))
at first the entire pc was dead, but after opening up the machine, and checking through the motherboard manual i found i've managed to get the tower to power-up at least . . . . the keyboard lights flash once, the cd, hd and fd activity lights all glow steadily, the cd whirrs away happily to itself, and that's it. the hd obviously isn't even attempting to spin up and boot, nor can i boot from a floppy, and even though all the lights are on, there's just nobody home!! the hd and fd stay lit but silent. the monitor doesn't switch on, the cd burbles away for a bit, and that's as far as it gets. so out with the screwdrivers! ((( have you ever read any of my "so-called" technical advice??? invariably just plain wrong . . . . but i have high hopes of bringing this patient back!!! :lol: )))
i've already completely dismantled and rebuilt, and discovered a scratch on the underside of the motherboard, lightly cutting across the tracks leading to one of the IDE connectors ((( or possibly the floppy, i forget! t'is definitely a disk drive connector of some description though! ;-) ))) but i reckon that scratch has been there ages and has not now become a problem. the motherboard was pretty secure, and couldn't possibly move that much. everything that should be connected seems to be . . erm . . connected, all the jumpers look fine, the monitor works on a different pc, whereas a different monitor still refuses to work with this faulty one. so i'm guessing some kind of major motherboard problem, but short of totally disassembling two pc's and swapping bits and bobs to isolate the fault to a particular component ((( which funnily enough i'm a little reluctant to do ))) i have no idea what to do now to narrow down the problem???
i've tried everything ((( in an admittedly limited arsenal! ))) that i can think of! i've checked all connectors again during a complete rebuild, done strictly according to instructions. i've tried every possible combination of drive, cable and connector, whether unplugged altogether, plugged in on it's own cable to either IDE connector, or slaved on a single cable. all to no avail. exactly the same sequence every time i power-up. i get the right lights on the case depending what's plugged in, so just the hd on either IDE channel lights the hd, the cd either lights once then goes quiet when unplugged, or spins a bit when plugged in, the floppy does nowt but the light on the case comes on when it's plugged in! so again looks like a motherboard problem rather than a component plugged into it! any ideas what to do next??? i've no idea whatsoever :dunno:
a pint at the munch for all suggestions, other than "it's broke, bin it, buy a new one!" :lol2: it's a Celeron 533 on a switchable 66/100/133 MHz FSB with on-board, integrated, everything, so not too much to go wrong!!?? i have another faster processor ready to plug in, with a few more bits and pieces from cannibalised PII's that i can possibly build in. i know i can buy a suitable second hand motherboard for 20-30 quid or so, but i'd really like to be certain it is a motherboard problem before i shell for a new one! ;-)
cheers
neil ;-)

26 Jul 2004

To be honest I usually have to physically see a pc and fiddle with it before being able to offer any advice. From what you're saying I have gathered that although it powers on you don't get any boot up screen. Does the pc beep at you at all?
I think you've pretty much covered everything that I would try. What exactly happened when you "dropped it on the bed"? Can't be that hard of a bed surely!
I think you have already done this but what I would do is unplug absolutely everything (cd drive, floppy drive, hard drive, keyboard, mouse) and just put in the power cable the monitor and turn on the pc to see if you see the boot screen.
If you do end up buying a new motherboard I would say 20 pounds is a bit over the top (for the motherboard type you're after). I'd pay about 10 max myself.
One other thing to try is plugging in a seperate graphics card (just in case it is the onboard graphics that has got damaged).

26 Jul 2004

Neil.
Have had a little (self taught) experience with fixing PCs.
A couple of things seem to spring to mind as they happened to me.
1) Is the m/c actually getting past the memory check stage? If not then try swapping the mem chips with another m/c. Careful with that one as the P133 probably uses PC100 and your Celeron is prob. using PC133.
2) If the hard drive has taken a knock, then it is possible that the heads are now out of alignment. It is very simple to swap the HD from another m/c. Even put the new one into the P133. Could be a problem there though if you haven't got enough RAM to load the special Windows s/w. Reboot the m/c and see what happens on both of them. At least if it works, that will eliminate the hard drive and memory, then only really the M/B left.
3) A really way out idea! If you needed to set DIP switches on the M/B, have they been reset by the knock. Had this happen to a friend's puter once and just couldn't figure it out.
Rich

26 Jul 2004

From what you say I have three main points;
1. Make sure that the IDE cable is on the right way, red line goes to pin1 on devices and motherboard (if you have two devices connected to the IDE channel and one of them is the wrong way round then you will get HDD and CD activity lights as you suggest).
2. Make sure the video card is fully pushed home into the motherboard (this was a common problem when AGP first came out), I realise that you have rebuilt the PC, but it doesn't hurt to check, you might as well push all of the other cards (memory for instance) down whilse you are at it and don't forget to do the BIOS chip (if it is socketed) too.
3. Swap out components, motherboard/memory.
M
PS, as has already been mentioned, it's often difficult to diagnose by message like this.

26 Jul 2004

Hit it with a sodding great hammer and yell
"work you bugger work"
( in reality this will not help but for a fraction of a second youll feel great) lol

26 Jul 2004

Quote by warwick
Hit it with a sodding great hammer and yell
"work you bugger work"
( in reality this will not help but for a fraction of a second youll feel great)

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

26 Jul 2004

I thought PCs beeped 3 times on boot if there was a problem with the memory. dunno

Only other thing I can think of is that a static discharge has killed the processor.
The F/CD drives tend to spin up whan connected to the power. They do it automatically, no need for any signals from the board as far as I'm aware.

26 Jul 2004

Easy, you are correct about HDD and CD spinning up on power, but beep codes vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, sometimes from motherboard to motherboard.
Static discharge is poentially a chip killer but it is not as common as you might think.

26 Jul 2004

Didn't know that about the beeps. I thought it was an industry standard (like windows crashing lol

).
Just a thought really as he said he dropped it onto his bed (bet Neil's got a nylon cover :P :lol: )

26 Jul 2004

lol and polyester sheets!

26 Jul 2004

Quote by marmalaid
lol and polyester sheets!

ewwww it doesn't bear thinking about ......

26 Jul 2004

now look! it weren't me that dropped it ffs! and it was a friends bed, and the last time i was in it it was most definately cotton bedding!
the pc doesn't beep, and thinking about your suggestions, everything lights up when powers applied, but no more than that, so a dodgy processor makes sense. a light fingered supposed friend of the friend apparently killed one chip in it already, and it may be that a little furtive exchange was done, so i'll try a different chip and let you know!
cheers
neil x x x x

26 Jul 2004

When I had the symptom of power but no boot up, it turned out to be a short in one of my memory slots. The solution was to use only the remaining good slot.
Ice

26 Jul 2004

Your friend dropped it in bed????
Think you need to explain to them what cybersex really is lol

26 Jul 2004

Quote by sussexguy
Your friend dropped it in bed????
Think you need to explain to them what cybersex really is

:rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:

26 Jul 2004

Quote by sussexguy
Your friend dropped it in bed????
Think you need to explain to them what cybersex really is

i have the same problem, Calista is always dropping one in bed :scared:

26 Jul 2004

Quote by morbiusUK
Your friend dropped it in bed????
Think you need to explain to them what cybersex really is

i have the same problem, Calista is always dropping one in bed :scared:
Run and hide now ...... smackbottom

and forget that 69 later!

26 Jul 2004

Quote by Calista
Your friend dropped it in bed????
Think you need to explain to them what cybersex really is

i have the same problem, Calista is always dropping one in bed :scared:
Run and hide now ...... smackbottom

and forget that 69 later!
i past 69 sometime this afternoon, im over 100 now lol

26 Jul 2004

Neil,
The bad news - Its buggered
The good news - How to fix it.
1. unplug or remove all the drives and cards from the M/B EXCEPT the CPU, Memory and Video Card. Check that the CPU, Memory and Video Card are all properly seated (preferably not in chairs).
2. Swtich it on... Does it work?
No - ah try different memory if still no, try different Video Card, if still no try new M/B or check M/B switchs/Jumpers...
Yes - Switch off and plug in one at a time the cards and/or drives. Test after plugging each one in (remember to turn off in between). The one that stops it working is buggered!
If it beeps more than once, make a note of the number of beeps and let me know the BIOS Manufacture and number of beeps.

26 Jul 2004

27 Jul 2004

quick update of further tinkering . . . .
i have two processors available, both PGA ((( PPGA?? 370??? dunno

i looked on the net anyways! ))) :-
Cyrix III 533 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . actually clocked at 433 i think . . 66 Mhz x 6.5 clock multiplier
Celeron 733 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 133 Mhz x 4 clock multiplier
now i think these are compatible ((( i plugged 'em both in anyway! ))) but without a monitor, i can't get into BIOS to select clock speeds. i doubt it auto-detects and sets bus speed and multiplier does it??? i get exactly the same result with either chip anyway. unlikely both are dead, but i don't think the Celeron will work with the current set-up anyway, so that doesn't prove the original cyrix chip is working does it???
there are no DIP switches on the motherboard, 3 jumpers simply select/deselect onboard modem / power-on from keyboard softkey / CMOS clear settings, all cables have either that stubby bit on the side, or an arrow showing pin 0, so all cables are right. i've tried a known working HD, but it's from a PII 233, so the broken PC is probably IDE / ATA 100, the good HD is probably 33 / 66 ??? i don't know if they'd work together anyway without being able to change settings
the PC does bleep ((( very quietly . . i think it always did bleep! ))) once, keyboard lights flash once, power light comes on, cd light comes on, nothing else lights up, and nothing but the cd tries to spin. so we're just getting power from the psu to light 'em up, and no signals from the motherboard to spin up/boot! i've tried a PCI video card, to no avail, but if settings are for onboard / AGP slot video, i don't know if that makes any difference anyway???
so motherboard or processor, or both??? seems we've narrowed it down to either one i think??? i just hate buying components when i could buy a complete PC for a little more, but cashflow is . . erm . . not flowing at all, so cheap fixes are the order of the day! lol

cheers again
neil x x x x ;-)

27 Jul 2004

Personnally I think it is a compatability issue with your motherboard and Processer.
Your PC will never power up unless it actually supports the processor that is in it. Hence the no beeps and no display.
Putting the motherboard on a cotton bed is not a good idea. The static could of damaged any number of things and will in effect bugger everything else up. This could of affected your power supply to the processor and then on the first boot up the power could of shorted out the processor.
I don't think it is the memory or the graphics as you say it is all onboard. You can usually get a display on the screen if the hard drive is corrupt or not recognised. (No OS found etc).
Have you made sure your motherboard is fully compatable with the new equipment you put in it? If not this could of f*cked everything else up so when you put the older stuff back in in turn it will f*ck that up. I had a bad experience with a simple (broken) graphics card swap.
If you do not know how to set the jumpers to set the processor speed then taking them all out (only the processor ratio jumpers) will make the BIOS try and detect it.
Your PIII is a 66mhz So you must make sure your motherboard is running at 66mhz. This speed however may be too slow for your memory to recognise but then you should still have warning signs if it can't.
We will need to know everything about your motherboard. What make is it? Type? Version? You should know from your manual and the fact it may be written on it.
My head hurts. I'm going to bed now. Night night.

27 Jul 2004

Just a quick question mate, is the monitor plugged in via the power supply in the tower, or does it have it's own mains plug?
You should be able to plug the monitor straight into the mains and see if it comes on at least. I'm thinking you may have lost a 5volt supply from the power unit or something like that, which might explaine why the monitor won't power up and the mo-bo seems dead.
Other than that, yep it's starting to look like a mo-bo or processor failure. sad

I'm no expert though, but if you hang around here long enough, one should be along. wink

28 Jul 2004

the PC does bleep ((( very quietly . . i think it always did bleep! ))) once, keyboard lights flash once, power light comes on, cd light comes on, nothing else lights up, and nothing but the cd tries to spin. so we're just getting power from the psu to light 'em up,

If there's 1 beep that usually means it's going to boot. Double check your monitor and do what easy says and check the cable from monitor to power supply...

29 Jul 2004

men

29 Jul 2004

Quote by BiPaula
men

Very profound

:rotflmao:

29 Jul 2004

Due to the lunar phase of the moon around the solar flares of the sun, the elektrikal activity and static produced.
Will fcuk any and all PC's
This does not affect Macs at all cause they are by far supirior biggrin

:D
Puts on kevlar vest and and braves out the storm

29 Jul 2004

Hey neil how about checking the fuse

29 Jul 2004

guys . . . . that bipaula kiss

. . . . where you think i got the <<< tuts >>> from!!!
joanneish! :kiss: does ya injury prevent future munch attendance??? i hope not!!!
i currently owe about 30-40 quids worth of bloody drinks, and it still ain't bleedin' workin'!
<<< tuts >>> ((( tm bipaula 2004 :P )))
FFS!!!
neil x x x x x
see ya's in a few days when i next discreetly get online and suffer abuse from the regs!!!
<<< tuts quite loudly!!! >>> ;-)

29 Jul 2004

Neil.......................... i am so sorry!.... i haven't got a clue what your on about mind you!. rolleyes

..............totally lost when it comes to PCs
Just wished you get a cam!............................ wink

:wink: :wink:
Hope all is sorted soon!......as i have missed you kiss