Please Oppose being Gay Being made illegal in Russia

6 Mar 2012

Hi All,
I am not sure if this is the correct forum for this, but I have been made aware by friends in the LGBT community that there is currently an attrocious law being passed in Russia to make the word 'gay' and all it's associations illegal. I know that this doens't relate directly to swinging but it does speak about a shared ethos that people should have the right to live their lives in whatever way they want, without shame.
This is an attrocious violation of basic human rights and a transgression against any sense of common or moral decency.
I thought as members of a liberal society, regardless of your personal persuasion that we would all support the rights of consenting adults to do whatever on earth they want to do.
Here is a link to the petition to sign opposing it - it is slowly having some impact but this has not hit any media that I have seen, and trust me I read a lot.
Please sign the petition to show your support for equality. As a happoy and proud and out Bi woman I personally would really appreciate it.
Please spread the message as well.
Thanks for reading - here is the link:

(You will have to copy and paste this into your browser).
Thanks Amber xxxxxxxxxx

6 Mar 2012

to be honest i am suprised at this, seeing as there are far more important things for peeple to put there names to, like.

i have signed this petition as have many others i know, but it is the only petition i will be signing i would think. :notes:

6 Mar 2012

Quote by starlightcouple
to be honest i am suprised at this, seeing as there are far more important things for peeple to put there names to, like.

i have signed this petition as have many others i know, but it is the only petition i will be signing i would think. :notes:

Far more important to who ?
I know that when I show my partner this she as a Russian born bisexual lady will certainly want to support the petition ?
I am not saying she won't also support any attempt to stop the murders in Syria or other petitions but to some this is as important as others are to different people. I do not think she would support being imprisoned when she visits her hometown but will avoid going to Syria at this time.

6 Mar 2012

what a death of someone is less important than someones sexuality rolleyes

i can understand your loyalty to a russian bisexual partner, whose country she comes from but reely.
there are many countries that ban any form of bisexuality or in this link homosexuality.

peeple being maimed and killed is far more important but i admire your loyalty to your partner. remember also that the countries in the link are not thinking about making it illegal, it IS illegal. am sure there are many petitions for you to sign. dunno

7 Mar 2012

Quote by starlightcouple
what a death of someone is less important than someones sexuality
i can understand your loyalty to a russian bisexual partner, whose country she comes from but reely.
there are many countries that ban any form of bisexuality or in this link homosexuality.

peeple being maimed and killed is far more important but i admire your loyalty to your partner. remember also that the countries in the link are not thinking about making it illegal, it IS illegal. am sure there are many petitions for you to sign.

Of course the situation in Syria and many other parts of the world are important, I said Sasha would support petitions on other subjects, there are many, from the destruction of the rain forests to the killing of people under government supervision, I think she has good knowledge of this from her Russian history under Stalin, but the question was asked as to wether or not the subject of gay rights were important enough to bother about in a world where people are dying, and I said yes, to some they are, perhaps not as important as stopping people being murdered but certainly not to be dismissed as "unworthy of support", we should be supporting all that we can that is against injustice everywhere and in every form, if these things are not brought to attention of the masses then nothing can be done about anything. Nobody should decide what is worthy of discussion or support or what isn't, just inform people and let them make thier own choice to support or ignore a situation. Signing one petition to stop the killing in Syria but letting the murder go on in other countries, as it does, it as imoral as ignoring the all the other acts of agression, subversion, etc that are happening, I just believe in giving what time you can to stand up for what you as an indivdual believe is right or wrong, I would respect someone for saying it is right to ban gays more than I would respect someone who says "what the hell" because I respect peoples right to have an opinion regardless of what it is, no opinion is grounds for no comment to me.
Just my opinion of course lol

7 Mar 2012

Quote by MidsCouple24
Of course the situation in Syria and many other parts of the world are important, I said Sasha would support petitions on other subjects, there are many, from the destruction of the rain forests to the killing of people under government supervision, I think she has good knowledge of this from her Russian history under Stalin, but the question was asked as to wether or not the subject of gay rights were important enough to bother about in a world where people are dying, and I said yes, to some they are, perhaps not as important as stopping people being murdered but certainly not to be dismissed as "unworthy of support", we should be supporting all that we can that is against injustice everywhere and in every form, if these things are not brought to attention of the masses then nothing can be done about anything. Nobody should decide what is worthy of discussion or support or what isn't, just inform people and let them make thier own choice to support or ignore a situation. Signing one petition to stop the killing in Syria but letting the murder go on in other countries, as it does, it as imoral as ignoring the all the other acts of agression, subversion, etc that are happening, I just believe in giving what time you can to stand up for what you as an indivdual believe is right or wrong, I would respect someone for saying it is right to ban gays more than I would respect someone who says "what the hell" because I respect peoples right to have an opinion regardless of what it is, no opinion is grounds for no comment to me.
Just my opinion of course

let me make a suggestion if you want to heal the world. rolleyes

i am all for equal rights my friend it is just sometimes it feels like some issues are rammed down peeples throats, purely to force someone elses opinions and beliefs onto others. that is also wrong, and to be honest putting petitions up for anything should not be allowed as who knows where it will end. dunno

i am sure you will do more good there than putting a petition on a swingers web site, by having a look on the link i posted. i am sure there is enough on that website to keep you going for a while. :notes:
just my opinion of course. innocent

good luck in your search. :thumbup:

7 Mar 2012

Saving the world is a bad thing then ?
Because I have an opinion I am a campaigner to save the world, because I showed support for something you thought unworthy of discussion I should join amnesty international, might be a good idea perhaps they have a petition to stop people judging others and veiled insults lol

Some people might look at what is happening in Syria and believe it is retribution for thier past links to terrorism in places like Northern Ireland and mainland europe or thier links to Al Quaeda, some might be thinking of thier own casualties that Syria helped bring about when it trained Bader Meinhof and IRA activists, some are of the opinion that if you live by the sword you die by it.
Personally I think this was more the Syrian government to blame, the same government that now killing it's own people and that the Syrian population are helping rid the world of another terrorist sympathising safe haven but opinions will vary even on the subject you show your support for.
Two wrongs never make a right

7 Mar 2012

Having looked at the link in the OP and researched a little more on the subject, it would appear that the title of this thread is a little misleading.
The city of St Petersburg are attempting to pass a bill banning the promotion of homosexuality and also . Not quite the same as making homosexuality illegal.
Russia decriminalized homosexuality in 1993, and removed it from a list of mental illnesses in 1999.

8 Mar 2012

Quote by Max777
Having looked at the link in the OP and researched a little more on the subject, it would appear that the title of this thread is a little misleading.
The city of St Petersburg are attempting to pass a bill banning the promotion of homosexuality and also . Not quite the same as making homosexuality illegal.
Russia decriminalized homosexuality in 1993, and removed it from a list of mental illnesses in 1999.

thanks for that max. i should have done a bit more looking into this.
nothing like a bit of scaremongering, and making things look worse than they actually are. :thumbup:

8 Mar 2012

Quote by starlightcouple

Of course the situation in Syria and many other parts of the world are important, I said Sasha would support petitions on other subjects, there are many, from the destruction of the rain forests to the killing of people under government supervision, I think she has good knowledge of this from her Russian history under Stalin, but the question was asked as to wether or not the subject of gay rights were important enough to bother about in a world where people are dying, and I said yes, to some they are, perhaps not as important as stopping people being murdered but certainly not to be dismissed as "unworthy of support", we should be supporting all that we can that is against injustice everywhere and in every form, if these things are not brought to attention of the masses then nothing can be done about anything. Nobody should decide what is worthy of discussion or support or what isn't, just inform people and let them make thier own choice to support or ignore a situation. Signing one petition to stop the killing in Syria but letting the murder go on in other countries, as it does, it as imoral as ignoring the all the other acts of agression, subversion, etc that are happening, I just believe in giving what time you can to stand up for what you as an indivdual believe is right or wrong, I would respect someone for saying it is right to ban gays more than I would respect someone who says "what the hell" because I respect peoples right to have an opinion regardless of what it is, no opinion is grounds for no comment to me.
Just my opinion of course

let me make a suggestion if you want to heal the world. rolleyes

i am all for equal rights my friend it is just sometimes it feels like some issues are rammed down peeples throats, purely to force someone elses opinions and beliefs onto others. that is also wrong, and to be honest putting petitions up for anything should not be allowed as who knows where it will end. dunno

i am sure you will do more good there than putting a petition on a swingers web site, by having a look on the link i posted. i am sure there is enough on that website to keep you going for a while. :notes:
just my opinion of course. innocent

good luck in your search. :thumbup:
Good idea perhaps we should all join Amnesty,I did many years ago ..... supporting the right of everyone everywhere to hold whatever beliefs they wish and not be imprisoned and persecuted for them does seem quite a good idea don't you think

8 Mar 2012

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Good idea perhaps we should all join Amnesty,I did many years ago

for me not all that amnesty does meets with many peeples views, so of course not everyone would join.

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
supporting the right of everyone everywhere to hold whatever beliefs they wish and not be imprisoned and persecuted for them does seem quite a good idea don't you think

no i do not on some occasions, and of course mr staggers it would be dictated by who is doing the persecution and the imprisonment, but more importantly than that, the reesons as to why those peeple have been persecuted and imprisoned. dont you think dunno

i certainly do not think that some peeples beliefs are correct. so you are possibly saying as an example that the taliban should not be persecuted or imprisoned for there beliefs? because those beliefs kill peeple on a regular basis. many peeple would say they are not persecuted enough.
that is why sometimes it can be dangerous for us all to join amnesty. would the taliban be in the queue to join up? rolleyes

i have had a little look at the amnesty web link. sorry i will not be joining anytime soon mr staggers. :notes:

not all that it seems :doh: is russia a part of amnesty international?

8 Mar 2012

But I did not put a petition up, nor did I direct people towards one, I simply said that we would support the petition that someone else had asked us too, and for that I suddenly became a "save the world campaigner"
The cafe (according to the site owners) is for the discussion of anything, so I will never chastise or criticise anyone for starting a topic on any subject, I might choose to ignore the subject but accept thier right to post them.
Sasha is still dissapointed in the move to make it harder for gay people especially in St Petersburg the town of her birth, I have never been there but she says much of the oppression in the City and Russia starts with a small move such as making it against the law to promote homosexuality.
In this country we are practically the opposite, if you were to apply for planning permission to open a sex shop or swingers club in your home town you could be refused permission on the grounds of the very nature of the business besides the normal parking, noise, traffic reasoning, The Council can refuse the permit on the grounds "we don't want that sort of thing here", if you apply to open a Gay Sauna or club those reasons cannot be used because the Gay movement went through the courts to make Gay sex between consenting adults legal, nobody has ever gone to court for the same approval of hetrosexual sex which means it is actually more legal to have gay sex than it is to have sex between man and woman in the UK, meaning that the council has no right to simply say "we don't want that here" when dealing with venues for gays. This petition seems to be against the opposite of that.
At the end of the day it is not a big issue to us simply something we would have time to support so would support

9 Mar 2012

Quote by starlightcouple
supporting the right of everyone everywhere to hold whatever beliefs they wish and not be imprisoned and persecuted for them does seem quite a good idea don't you think

no i do not on some occasions, and of course mr staggers it would be dictated by who is doing the persecution and the imprisonment, but more importantly than that, the reesons as to why those peeple have been persecuted and imprisoned. dont you think dunno

i certainly do not think that some peeples beliefs are correct. so you are possibly saying as an example that the taliban should not be persecuted or imprisoned for there beliefs? because those beliefs kill peeple on a regular basis. many peeple would say they are not persecuted enough.
that is why sometimes it can be dangerous for us all to join amnesty. would the taliban be in the queue to join up? rolleyes

Rubbish. Beliefs are incapable of harming anyone. They exist only as chemical / electrical patterns in the brain. Persecuting someone for those beliefs is persecution plain and simple. It's actions that harm, and though those actions are often informed by belief generally speaking individuals should be free to believe what they like, whether we like it or not. Even so far as allowing a Taliban member to believe that adulterers should be stoned or apostates beheaded, so long as they don't try to impose that belief on others. It's when they actually start chopping people's heads off that the time has come to get properly involved. Up until then the only appropriate course of action is rational debate as regards whether the belief is a valid one, or a complete load of self-deluded shite.

9 Mar 2012

Quote by neilinleeds
no i do not on some occasions, and of course mr staggers it would be dictated by who is doing the persecution and the imprisonment, but more importantly than that, the reesons as to why those peeple have been persecuted and imprisoned. dont you think
i certainly do not think that some peeples beliefs are correct. so you are possibly saying as an example that the taliban should not be persecuted or imprisoned for there beliefs? because those beliefs kill peeple on a regular basis. many peeple would say they are not persecuted enough.
that is why sometimes it can be dangerous for us all to join amnesty. would the taliban be in the queue to join up?

Rubbish. Beliefs are incapable of harming anyone. They exist only as chemical / electrical patterns in the brain. It's actions that harm, and though those actions are often informed by belief generally speaking individuals should be free to believe what they like, whether we like it or not. Even so far as allowing a Taliban member to believe that adulterers should be stoned or apostates beheaded, so long as they don't try to impose that belief on others. It's when they actually start chopping people's head's off that the time has come to get properly involved. Up until then the only appropriate course of action is rational debate as regards whether the belief is a valid one, or a complete load of self-deluded shite.
ty neil

9 Mar 2012

Quote by neilinleeds
supporting the right of everyone everywhere to hold whatever beliefs they wish and not be imprisoned and persecuted for them does seem quite a good idea don't you think

no i do not on some occasions, and of course mr staggers it would be dictated by who is doing the persecution and the imprisonment, but more importantly than that, the reesons as to why those peeple have been persecuted and imprisoned. dont you think dunno

i certainly do not think that some peeples beliefs are correct. so you are possibly saying as an example that the taliban should not be persecuted or imprisoned for there beliefs? because those beliefs kill peeple on a regular basis. many peeple would say they are not persecuted enough.
that is why sometimes it can be dangerous for us all to join amnesty. would the taliban be in the queue to join up? rolleyes

Rubbish. Beliefs are incapable of harming anyone. They exist only as chemical / electrical patterns in the brain. Persecuting someone for those beliefs is persecution plain and simple. It's actions that harm, and though those actions are often informed by belief generally speaking individuals should be free to believe what they like, whether we like it or not. Even so far as allowing a Taliban member to believe that adulterers should be stoned or apostates beheaded, so long as they don't try to impose that belief on others. It's when they actually start chopping people's heads off that the time has come to get properly involved. Up until then the only appropriate course of action is rational debate as regards whether the belief is a valid one, or a complete load of self-deluded shite.
Saved me a couple of minutes there Neil ty

9 Mar 2012

seems that sh have there own amnesty international in the forums. innocent

funny though how i knew my link would be ignored. rolleyes

9 Mar 2012

I've got no axe to grind with Amnesty International any which way Starlight. I ignored the link because it's completely irrelevant to the ridiculous false argument you made in your previous post where you expressed your support for the persecution of people solely for their beliefs, that's all.

9 Mar 2012

Quote by starlightcouple
funny though how i knew my link would be ignored.

Not ignored Star, when links are posted which further sensible debate then they are read, so

and

for you to consider as well, especially Amnesty draws attention to human rights abuses and campaigns for compliance with international laws and standards. It works to mobilise public opinion to put pressure on governments that let abuse take place surely a noble enough sentiment.
As for your assertion

Quote by starlightcouple
i certainly do not think that some peeples beliefs are correct...

then that's your 'belief', though probably more accurately descibed as your view and one of the beauties of SH and the UK is that you are permitted to have them.
Additionally you are also allowed to express them, so long as the accepted site AUP http://www.swingingheaven.co.uk/main/aup.html and relevant UK Legislation is not contravened.
Must admit that Amber's original post and link are commendable and whilst the Russian Federation did decriminalized homosexuality in 1993 it seems there are still some ways to go not just there but in other Countries that are members of the United Nations , which has 4 simple purposes in Article 1, including ...promoting and encouraging respect for human rights and for fundamental freedoms for all without distinction as to race, sex, language, or religion....

9 Mar 2012

Quote by HnS
Not ignored Star, when links are posted which further sensible debate then they are read, so

seems my link hit a bit of a nerve as anything that contravenes what amnesty is, apparently can be looked at as not furthering sensible debate. dunno

there are always two sides to everything and many peeple only want to look at the one side that they think is the right side. i am far more open to that idea and look at both sides as constrctively as i can, when i gather any evidence. :thumbup:
for me ' when and if a time ever comes where every single person abides by the views and actions of amnesty international, with regards to human rights issues then i may well change my mind on those issues. but for me peeple are killed on a daily basis all because they want others to bow to their own values and beliefs, with no regard at all for others beliefs and values.
human rights are also equal rights, can you have one without the other :dunno:
two wrongs obviusly do not make a right, no more than sometimes two rights can make a wrong. :notes:

9 Mar 2012

Quote by HnS
Must admit that Amber's original post and link are commendable and whilst the Russian Federation did decriminalized homosexuality in 1993 it seems there are still some ways to go not just there but in other Countries that are members of the United Nations which has 4 simple purposes in Article 1, including ...promoting and encouraging respect for human rights and for fundamental freedoms for all without distinction as to race, sex, language, or religion....

It may have been commendable but it was inaccurate, which was the point I made earlier in the thread.

10 Mar 2012

Quote by starlightcouple
for me ' when and if a time ever comes where every single person abides by the views and actions of amnesty international, with regards to human rights issues then i may well change my mind on those issues. but for me peeple are killed on a daily basis all because they want others to bow to their own values and beliefs, with no regard at all for others beliefs and values.
human rights are also equal rights, can you have one without the other
two wrongs obviusly do not make a right, no more than sometimes two rights can make a wrong. :notes:

So if I'm reading this right ..... You'll support Amnesty when it's no longer needed .... or a campaign for human rights is only worth joining when there is no longer any need for a campaign for human rights ..... wow that's a nasty little loop you've got yourself into there .... you want to be careful you don't disappear somewhere unpleasant
P.S. Strange isn't it that most of the critiques of Amnesty quoted in your link come from governments being critiqued ... i.e. The U.S.A. complains about Amnesties criticism of Guantanamo....I mean who'd of thought such a thing .... ban them now I say ..bunch of bloody commies .... take 'em out and shoot 'em..... hanging's too good ....etc etc

10 Mar 2012

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
So if I'm reading this right

well there is a first time for everything blink

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
You'll support Amnesty when it's no longer needed .... or a campaign for human rights is only worth joining when there is no longer any need for a campaign for human rights ..... wow that's a nasty little loop you've got yourself into there .... you want to be careful you don't disappear somewhere unpleasant

yes and not a chance :thumbup:

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
P.S. Strange isn't it that most of the critiques of Amnesty quoted in your link come from governments being critiqued ... i.e. The U.S.A. complains about Amnesties criticism of Guantanamo....I mean who'd of thought such a thing .... ban them now I say ..bunch of bloody commies .... take 'em out and shoot 'em..... hanging's too good ....etc etc

funnily enough j clarkson said the same thing and was cleered innocent

11 Mar 2012

I don't need to do I ??

11 Mar 2012

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
I don't need to do I ??

seems a yes is very well in order.

i find one of these would be so much better in getting the job done. :thumbup:

11 Mar 2012

The phrase is 'give 'em enough rope' .....

11 Mar 2012

In a country where the people of residence are seemingly unable to gain access to a fare vote, I can not see the the signing of a petition by outsiders will help anyone much