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Private or State....?

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Quote by davej
there is still in my opinion a real need for kids to be taught in an environment that forces them to mix and interact with as broader range of people as possible.

Absolutely agree with you there Dave. I believe that many of the problems children have nowadays could probably be attributed to the fact that they spend more time at a PC or with a games console, rather than interacting with their peers.
Quote by Calista
you also need lots of money for this to be viable, lots of parents have neither the financial backup or skills to even consider this option

which option? Homeschooling? it's not as expensive as you think .. although I agree totally with skill ... The people I know who do are well educated but earn no more than the average wage.
C x
most families need parents to be bringing wages, if a parent is teaching at home, how do they manage this and bring in the readies?
By thinking outside of the box, homeworking, part-time working, flexible hours, one person working, downsizing!!
There are countless thousands of parents who stay at home for one reason or another, and I'm not suggesting home-working works for everyone just that it's on the increase.
I guess you have to balance whether education or high status lifestyle is more important!
Cx
Cal, the options you have listed simply arent available to many parents, most parents priorities are paying bills etc rather than deciding wether to keep a butler on or let him go.
:lmao: your talking to a parent who has only just returned to work full time, has a hubby in full-time education and ran a business from home, I considered it for a long time and definitely would have managed. It isn't about cost and I have already stated I don't believe it is for everyone, but it would have cost me about £300 a year!!!!
To those parents who believe it's importance and viability ... it's an option trust me.
If you don't believe me then go and look up home educators on the net and find the resources. You can get a copy of the national curriculum to fit "lessons" around most major cities have support groups which meet regularly and a lot of resources are free, museums, libraries, nature reserves, parks.
C x
and the internet...... wink
CheekyChimp..... cool
Quote by freckledbird
there is still in my opinion a real need for kids to be taught in an environment that forces them to mix and interact with as broader range of people as possible.

Absolutely agree with you there Dave. I believe that many of the problems children have nowadays could probably be attributed to the fact that they spend more time at a PC or with a games console, rather than interacting with their peers.
I agree....my sister has limited the hours / days...! her youngest can have access to the playstation..!
CheekyChimp.... cool
Quote by freckledbird
Just had it pointed out in PM :shock: but it had already been quoted confused
Bollocks. :shock:

rotflmao :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: kiss
sorry for the hijack
Can you be bribed not to tell Postie :twisted:
lol :lol: too late he's seen it .........sorry redface surprisedops: biggrin
Quote by cheekychimp
and the internet...... wink
CheekyChimp..... cool

Totally ... although I didn't say that because my kids aren't allowed to use the internet unless they are at school LOLOLOLOL.
I will add my reason for sending them to state school was purely based on skill, I do genuinely believe my children do better at the local school because it's a "village" type school with less than 280 pupils ranging from age 3 - 10. The class sizes are kept small so that teachers are allowed to spend time with each pupil and I appreciate that.
Unfortunately our poor teachers are generally overworked and underpaid and I know that most would prefer to see it the way we have it, so we do feel very lucky and instead of home educating we sent them and we volunteered as Parent Helpers in order to give back as well. A little parental support goes a long way in helping smile
C x
Cal, how many people ran a business from home? how many are capeable and/ or have the opportunity? the answer is of course most people can but in reality it is a non starter for most parents, just because it fits in with your reasoning and lifestyle, doesnt mean others will be able to adapt. As for 'costing' £300 per year does that take into account loss of earnings, pension, National insurance contributions etc? There is absolutely no way on earth either me or my wife could give up work and teach our kids, if you can and it works, good luck.
ps. we let the butler go about three years ago biggrin
Quote by pleasureseeker
Cal, how many people ran a business from home? how many are capeable and/ or have the opportunity? the answer is of course most people can but in reality it is a non starter for most parents, just because it fits in with your reasoning and lifestyle, doesnt mean others will be able to adapt. As for 'costing' £300 per year does that take into account loss of earnings, pension, National insurance contributions etc? There is absolutely no way on earth either me or my wife could give up work and teach our kids, if you can and it works, good luck.
ps. we let the butler go about three years ago biggrin

What I'm trying to get you to see is that it is viable to anyone ..... whether or not they are willing to cut back and downsize is the question. if one of you lost your jobs would you survive? of course you would, you'd pull in your belts, reschedule your spending and generally cut back and you'd survive.
And yes I'd say given the right opportunity most people could work from home.
It's a lifestyle choice ... either you want the money or you want to educate your children yourselves ... I'm not saying either way is the right way, just that it is if you are committed and are willing to make the lifestyle change.
Cx
Quote by Calista
Cal, how many people ran a business from home? how many are capeable and/ or have the opportunity? the answer is of course most people can but in reality it is a non starter for most parents, just because it fits in with your reasoning and lifestyle, doesnt mean others will be able to adapt. As for 'costing' £300 per year does that take into account loss of earnings, pension, National insurance contributions etc? There is absolutely no way on earth either me or my wife could give up work and teach our kids, if you can and it works, good luck.
ps. we let the butler go about three years ago biggrin

What I'm trying to get you to see is that it is viable to anyone ..... whether or not they are willing to cut back and downsize is the question. if one of you lost your jobs would you survive? of course you would, you'd pull in your belts, reschedule your spending and generally cut back and you'd survive.
And yes I'd say given the right opportunity most people could work from home.
It's a lifestyle choice ... either you want the money or you want to educate your children yourselves ... I'm not saying either way is the right way, just that it is if you are committed and are willing to make the lifestyle change.
Cx
Cal, I think I said as much i the first three lines of my last post.
Bog-standard state education never did me any harm, though they never did manage to stop me skiving hehehehehehe. But the education system trapped me in the end and I went to uni, got a 1st class degree and then a PhD. I can't see any reason to spend thousands of pounds on private schooling -- I can think of much better ways to spend my money cos we have a perfectly good state system in the UK.
I've never been sure about home schooling. I'm not questioning the academic benefits, but I do wonder how it affects childrens' social skills. I mean, that's part of education too, isn't it?
Quote by bluexxx
Bog-standard state education never did me any harm

Mmmm - rolleyes
Joke...!
CheekyChimp..... wink
Well as someone who lives in one of the cities with the lowest educational attainments . . . .
I have three very different children. Eldest with special needs, 2nd doing x3 GCSE two years early and youngest -m pretty average I would say. All the kids have therefroe required different input from the education system.
I belive, like many others, that school is not just about what we can learn educationally but also being able to socialise and interact with others to develop ourselves to our greatest potential at that particualr stage in our life. Unfirtunately for my eldest child, life will always be difficult but the world will not change for him. he needs to learn to adapt himself so he can fit in and be as valued as anyone else. I could not teach him these skills by myself - his peers are often the best motivation that he has to try out new things and share the failures and successes with them.
And I have to agree with many others, parental input, support and encouragement is vital for the children to achieve their potential wherever they are being educated.
Quote by davej
I'm guessing that home education, if done right, can be very effective in terms of teaching yer ABC's and 123's, but what I can't see is where the child gets social interaction training/experiances that to my mind is pretty important. The ability to interact with other people is still hugely important in the development of kids and still important in our everyday lives

But what about the fact that school is an arficial way of socialising? How often in society are we put into situations where we only interact amongst people of our own age group? I could argue that school limits the breadth and width of true social interactions.
Interesting subject as Steve and I are currently looking at secondary schools for our son. When you start out you think "hhmmm this will be easy" Boy how wrong can you be confused
I was adament that I wanted him to attend a localish grammar school which also happened to be an all boys school. I was willing to look at the other schools in the area but this particular one was my first choice.... I have been tutoring him for the entrance exam since May, bought books, test papers etc, in preparation...
I had a list of 6 schools including the grammar school, to go on the open evening and have a look. Off we go and the upshot is I have completely changed my mind :? Within 10 minutes of being at the grammar school I knew that it was totally the wrong school for HIM and he just would not attain his full potential. Out of the 6 schools, which by the way do not include 2 which are close by, I have settled on just 2. One of which was not on my original list but we went to the open evening as his best friend wants to attend that school...
The grammar school had very little in the way of technology (i.e. computers, science equipment, etc) and we know that our son will excell in this field. So while on paper the grammer school has the best exam results it would have been the wrong decision to send him there.
I attended a normal comprehensive school, but was never made aware of the importance of achieving your best at school. For a 10 year old it is very difficult to comprehend the enormity of the task regarding the "right school for them" and how essential it is to ensure that they use their time wisely... I have, however come up with a perfect analogy for him lol
Said son's ultimate car is a Suberu Impreza WRX STi. So this is what I told him....
To be able to afford your perfect car (that's buy, insure and run) you have to have a good job.... To get a good job you have to have a good education wink It has sunk in :lol:
So the answer to the original question??
That's easy...... Whatever school is best suited to the child biggrin
Shireen
xxx
Apologies for the long post redface
Quote by kcshaggers
I have three very different children. Eldest with special needs, 2nd doing x3 GCSE two years early and youngest -m pretty average I would say. All the kids have therefroe required different input from the education system

Same here.... Eldest has dyslexia and struggles with her reading and spelling (Was statemented but now isn't, she has improved that much :bounce: ) Middle child (said son) is clever but just cant be arsed lol and youngest daughter who at 8 years and 2 1/2 months old is currently reading Wuthering Height's by Emily Bronte (I kid you not)
None of them would be able to go to the same secondary school as they all have such different requirements...
Shireen
xxx
In our country, UK, you can have an education whenever you want. That's great. I went in as a mature student and grabbed a degree in engineering. It was useful in as much as I wanted it to be.
We can't all be geniuses, probably about 10% of the world's brains, do the real clever stuff. For the rest of us its just counting the beans and mending the fences.
So if your kids don't happen to be Leonardo or Einstein, don't worry.
Quote by davej
I'm guessing that home education, if done right, can be very effective in terms of teaching yer ABC's and 123's, but what I can't see is where the child gets social interaction training/experiances that to my mind is pretty important.

Quote by Calista
As for social aspects, apart from the support groups; library book groups, brownies, scouts, girls/boys brigade, other extra curricular lessons such as dance, sport, music groups all make for excellent opportunities.

Great alternative if it works - unfortunately both my kids only last a few weeks with the clubs before they decide they 'don't like it anymore' and it's on to the next one rolleyes I do feel they should be put into social situations where they 'have' to learn how to adapt and get on - after all, we can't choose who we work with later on (ok some can :lol2: )
Both mine go to state schools - my eldest has positively thrived, she's naturally outgoing, she's pretty intelligent and tends to pick things up quickly, regardless of class size and any distractions (admittedly she's also occasionally guilty of these 'distractions' :roll: ). I don't think a private school would've advanced her more .......... hmmmm saying that, actually I do think she would've done well - not so much the classes, but the extra stuff, she's got a good ear for music and reckon if pushed and went to a school that was more specialised in it, she could excel.
My youngest however was completely different, she didn't thrive, she's not a quick learner and needs things explaining thoroughly, not just once either. A class of 30 kids, she's not going to get that so I spent 2 years watching her struggle and drop down the class :shock: ........ Whether private school would've helped there I don't know, judging by a couple of kids I know in private school, I don't think it would've helped her situation at all. She's a very shy child, so also tends to get pushed out of things and stays on the sidelines.
Now this is where Calistas idea came in. Being totally crap with absolutely no patience when it comes to teaching or explaining (tend to say it once followed by "oh give it here, I'll do it" :roll: ), I couldn't home teach her (plus have to go out to work, plus I still think she should be encouraged to be in larger groups to learn how to interact), I took an alternative route and got her a private tutor once a week. This one on one tuition has done wonders - I was just gobsmacked how much it has turned her around. Not just with the learning side of things, but socially too!! She's a different child, now confident enough to put her hand up in class etc and not be phased if she's wrong. She's lost her nervous cough, I'm just so proud of how well she's done :smile2:
There are several routes towards education - I think it's a case of picking up on each childs needs and working with them. None of it is 'wrong', everything has different pros and cons, s'pose it's just a case of trial and error until you get the best thing for your own child dunno So far, albeit bluddy slow confused I finally figured out the youngests best education within my budget - although this term I have been getting grief from her cos she 'don't like it anymore' (*aka clubs and groups syndrome, 1st para :roll: )
Quote by bluexxx
I can't see any reason to spend thousands of pounds on private schooling -- I can think of much better ways to spend my money cos we have a perfectly good state system in the UK.

Can be worth it to get the little brats out of your hair though. Education often isn't the only reason why parents send their kids to school.
Quote by westerross
I can't see any reason to spend thousands of pounds on private schooling -- I can think of much better ways to spend my money cos we have a perfectly good state system in the UK.

Can be worth it to get the little brats out of your hair though. Education often isn't the only reason why parents send their kids to school.
True, I made sure ours went because the thought of mrs davej being imprisoned, leaving me to fathon out the complexities of washing machines and hoovers was just too scary :shock:
The education process we have is geared up to produce a minumum of brainy sprogs.
They are simply the produce of the continuum.
Quote by westerross
Can be worth it to get the little brats out of your hair though. Education often isn't the only reason why parents send their kids to school.

Oh so true, I think I would go stark raving mad if I had to spend all day everyday with the kids!! :shock: I'm definitely the type who has to have adult interraction too. After my first was born, I took 7 years out of work. The best thing I ever done was go back part time, didn't realise how much my confidence had been knocked. You do get into a little bubble and used to only seeing people that you 'want' to see. Working that job (which was a duff job, bluddy hard work :shock: ), forced me to be social with, what turned out to be, some of the best women I've ever met biggrin and gave me a life, for me, outside my family :D
Quote by duncanlondon
The education process we have is geared up to produce a minumum of brainy sprogs.
They are simply the produce of the continuum.

As I haven't a clue what "contunuum" means, I don't know whether to remain neutral, agree or bluddy disagree now!! smackbottom dunno
Quote by MISSCHIEF
Can be worth it to get the little brats out of your hair though. Education often isn't the only reason why parents send their kids to school.

Oh so true, I think I would go stark raving mad if I had to spend all day everyday with the kids!! :shock: I'm definitely the type who has to have adult interraction too. After my first was born, I took 7 years out of work. The best thing I ever done was go back part time, didn't realise how much my confidence had been knocked. You do get into a little bubble and used to only seeing people that you 'want' to see. Working that job (which was a duff job, bluddy hard work :shock: ), forced me to be social with, what turned out to be, some of the best women I've ever met biggrin and gave me a life, for me, outside my family :D
you can go back to work once they reach seven :shock: .....our youngest is twenty four and mrs davej still aint gone back ...ohhh she's gona get blisters on her tongue.
Quote by davej
Can be worth it to get the little brats out of your hair though. Education often isn't the only reason why parents send their kids to school.

Oh so true, I think I would go stark raving mad if I had to spend all day everyday with the kids!! :shock: I'm definitely the type who has to have adult interraction too. After my first was born, I took 7 years out of work. The best thing I ever done was go back part time, didn't realise how much my confidence had been knocked. You do get into a little bubble and used to only seeing people that you 'want' to see. Working that job (which was a duff job, bluddy hard work :shock: ), forced me to be social with, what turned out to be, some of the best women I've ever met biggrin and gave me a life, for me, outside my family :D
you can go back to work once they reach seven :shock: .....our youngest is twenty four and mrs davej still aint gone back ...ohhh she's gona get blisters on her tongue.
Mrs Davej is still in a bubble only seeing people she 'wants' to see?? :shock:
How the hell have you managed to stay there so long?? Have you been hiding?? Are you really tiny and unnoticable?? rotflmao
Or have you just convinced her you're a hero who finds cars when she's "lost" them, after you've followed her and driven it to a different parking space? :rotflmao:
Or constantly saving the day, when for example, you rescue the goldfish after it somehow managed to 'jump' into your lightshade, thus scaring Mrs Davej? :rotflmao:
:rotflmao:
kiss
Quote by MISSCHIEF
The education process we have is geared up to produce a minumum of brainy sprogs.
They are simply the produce of the continuum.

As I haven't a clue what "contunuum" means, I don't know whether to remain neutral, agree or bluddy disagree now!! smackbottom dunno
I don't understand the point in the first sentence either. :dunno: Does that mean we don't too many brainy sprogs or that it's geared up to produce at least say 5%?
It's obvious what continuum means. It means 'I'm trying to confuse you'. lol Speaking as someone who has been roasted fer confustication (there I go again!) in the past - I know.
well I went to private school until 11 ( was a convent actually and got taught by nuns), and then i went on to a state grammer school, that changed to a comprehensive half way through. So as you can see i have inside knowledge on the subject.
The only real differance between private and state schools is class size. In private schools teachers do have more time for you, as they only have half as many pupils to look after. So undoubtably the results from that school are usually higher. However that does not mean you have had a good education !! I found at private school you were blinkered and trained almost like a race horse towards one goal. passing the exam. In my case it was the 11+. However the 6 monthes prior to the actuall exam all i did was old 11+ papers. we never seemed to touch on history or geography etc etc. when I did go to secondary school i found that I was actually behind others from state schools that had, had a more rounded education.
So if all you want is your child to pass exams and get results then send to private school. If you want your child to have a rounded education, and learn things about life rather than just how to pass exams, then choose the state sector.
What really annoys me is when people say they should have the choice !! That means you can have a choice if you can afford it. What choice does the 6 year old have, if their parents simply can not afford anything other than the state sector.
There are only enough resources to educate our children. These are focussed on a bandwidth of principles and disciplines to produce children who primarily understand what adults do/know. That seems obvious. However its enormously repetitive and inefficient.
What would happen if we educated our children into the principles of Autism, Dyslexia, Hyper activity etc,. Consider what will happen if space reserach requires people to inhabit weighlessness for their whole lives.
Ah misschief she is a tiny person, petite is the best description and I've spent 32 years tying to not to notice her, but occasionally, just occasionally there's a need for us to interact. She has indeed managed to stay in her bubble having never worked full time in her life although thats a choice we both made for financial security in the future...sounds mad don't it, loon but trust me it's the truth...
Anyways to kinda get back on track. like you ,I am crap teacher and get very frustrated when I'm trying to show someone something and they just can't grasp it and ashamedly admit to reducing both the davel sprogs to tears, whilst taking them out on driving lessons, with my obvious impatience at their inability to negotiate my strategically placed shopping trolleys that simulate parked cars. We used this method in Tesco carpark on Sundays before they opened cos when you wack a trolley it moves and only scratches the car lightly.
What the experiance taught me was that teachers are pretty special in that I am sure mr and mrs average, try as they might, would'nt be able to cope even with thier own kids and that for me is another reason to get em off to school.
Quote by duncanlondon
There are only enough resources to educate our children. These are focussed on a bandwidth of principles and disciplines to produce children who primarily understand what adults do/know. That seems obvious. However its enormously repetitive and inefficient.
What would happen if we educated our children into the principles of Autism, Dyslexia, Hyper activity etc,. Consider what will happen if space reserach requires people to inhabit weighlessness for their whole lives.

Duncan, I think I love you lol
Quote by duncanlondon
Consider what will happen if space reserach requires people to inhabit weighlessness for their whole lives.

Oooh ooh pick me, pick me :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
Oh I dream of never having weight problems :happy:
Quote by Maia
There are only enough resources to educate our children. These are focussed on a bandwidth of principles and disciplines to produce children who primarily understand what adults do/know. That seems obvious. However its enormously repetitive and inefficient.
What would happen if we educated our children into the principles of Autism, Dyslexia, Hyper activity etc,. Consider what will happen if space reserach requires people to inhabit weighlessness for their whole lives.

Duncan, I think I love you lol
I think he needs to call out the gas board cos there's got to be a leak!