Dear All,
Last night I watched the best documentary I've seen
"Mission Accomplished:Langan In Iraq" (BBC 2).
It was filmed before the photos of tourture of Iraq P.O.W's & shows an Iraq that has 2 sides which are not mentioned in the mainstram media. These are:
1. The Moderates, whom want the "Ailles" to leave & have the nation free of outside & internal interference. This would make Iraq free they claim. They see themselves as Freedom Fighters.
2. Muslim Fighters, whom like the The Moderates want the "Ailles" to leave BUT want the nation to become an Muslim State.
This means that for NOW both side are'nt working together but are against esp. the Americans yet their is an undercurrent of tension between the two.
Yet the most worring is that the American Miltary that are on the front line are openly not supporting their leaders esp. back in Washington D.C. This could lead to an all out munity & therefore Iraq could become an Battle Royal with various sides fighting each other.
American against each other, Iraqies against each other with the rules being non & burtal. The most worring was the stress that the American Soilders were under & paranoid feelings happing about the people of Iraq & their orders.
My last point being that the American Government HAS put a blanket ban of the reporting of their soilders that are killed within Iraq. Did'nt they go into the nation to promote freedom yet they are'nt doing it at home. The thing that had before watching the documantary was that ALL American Soilders were all gung - ho & Rambo like yet these are people that belive they are doing the right thing. Some of them are even young than myself & don't know what the point of the situation is & their in it.
If you get the chance please check this most amazing piece of Television from the BBC, for more info please checkout this interview with Sean Langan:
Their is the most amazing section when an 20 something Man wants to blow himself, a crowd & Langan with a Hand Grenade. This is all on camera.
I don't know why I've put this on but I just had to.
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Re: Iraq, its NOT getting better.
Dear All,
Now I don't ask for much but I spent quite a long time writing this POST & this issue does effect everyone ( well in my viewpoint ).
It's good that people have voted but your views would be grand as I have mentioned that this most great website SHOULD have all views from crazy - leftfield - serious - current...
So I look forward to some quailty feedback.
Dragon de Ecstacy.
Now I don't ask for much but I spent quite a long time writing this POST & this issue does effect everyone ( well in my viewpoint ).
It's good that people have voted but your views would be grand as I have mentioned that this most great website SHOULD have all views from crazy - leftfield - serious - current...
So I look forward to some quailty feedback.
Dragon de Ecstacy.
Mod
Dragon
You can't force people to respond, just because you took time to write it and it's about a serious matter. This is a Forum that people use to often escape the humdrum of reality and they can pick and choose how they react to any postings.
Mal
You can't force people to respond, just because you took time to write it and it's about a serious matter. This is a Forum that people use to often escape the humdrum of reality and they can pick and choose how they react to any postings.
Mal
I'm more than happy to have my politics known publically.
George W. Bush is a warmonger and a liar, he is corrupt and using the military and the defence (arms) industry to his own ends.
Let's face it, the arms industry is not a charitable institution concerned with the protection and wellbeing of mankind. It is a powerful and corrupt organisation intent on profit, regardless of the cost to human life. Weapons have to get used to keep the profits rolling in.
One of the most influential investors in the arms trade is the extremely powerful Carlyle Group, who has George Bush Sr. as a major shareholder and John Major as their European chairman. They have made money from the Iraq war. GW Bush is set to inherit a lot of money from this company.
Couple the defence industry with their investments into the oil trade and the pharmaceutical industry (who supply the medication for protection against chemical attack) you have a recipe for deceit lies and torture at the expense of several million innocent people.
People may argue that Saddam Hussein needed to be removed but that was an excuse to go in, not a reason. If it was a reason then why aren't they in Zimbabe, China, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia or any of about 50 countries with human rights abuse issues?
There is nothing wrong with this world. We just have to claim it back.
George W. Bush is a warmonger and a liar, he is corrupt and using the military and the defence (arms) industry to his own ends.
Let's face it, the arms industry is not a charitable institution concerned with the protection and wellbeing of mankind. It is a powerful and corrupt organisation intent on profit, regardless of the cost to human life. Weapons have to get used to keep the profits rolling in.
One of the most influential investors in the arms trade is the extremely powerful Carlyle Group, who has George Bush Sr. as a major shareholder and John Major as their European chairman. They have made money from the Iraq war. GW Bush is set to inherit a lot of money from this company.
Couple the defence industry with their investments into the oil trade and the pharmaceutical industry (who supply the medication for protection against chemical attack) you have a recipe for deceit lies and torture at the expense of several million innocent people.
People may argue that Saddam Hussein needed to be removed but that was an excuse to go in, not a reason. If it was a reason then why aren't they in Zimbabe, China, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia or any of about 50 countries with human rights abuse issues?
There is nothing wrong with this world. We just have to claim it back.
Warming the Bed
Hmmm a BBC programme eh! No doubt they are not biased pml.
Unless you have been there and seen the place before and after how can we possibly begin to answer that one?
Unless you have been there and seen the place before and after how can we possibly begin to answer that one?
There is so much to say about this subject, either for or against. I don't want to rant about the rights or wrongs of the war but one part of what you wrote did spring out at me.
You stated " don't know what the point of the situation is & their in it."
Quite true. However, does a soldier need to know why they are there. I joined at a tender age and served for ten years. I served in 3 conflicts and lost a number of close friends. My training (don't believe the old soldiers when they say it is getting easier) was brutal. They knocked the ability to think out of NCOs and Officers do the thinking and make the decisions. If you think then you don't react. A soldier is there to obey and follow orders, good or bad. They are there to work as a team not an individual.
So is there really a need for them to know the reason or just for them to do the job they have been trained to do and, fingers crossed, come home safe and to their loved ones. Their job is not a nine to five where you have the ability to look back with hindsight or have a meeting to discuss things. When they have to work, it is usually in the most dangerous situations that a job could throw at you and you have seconds not hours to respond. So a debate on the rights and wrongs of going to a war is not high on the priority list when some madman is trying to put you six feet under, not for most soldiers anyway.
As for the rights or wrongs of the war? You are damned if you do or damned if you don't.
Dave_Notts
You stated " don't know what the point of the situation is & their in it."
Quite true. However, does a soldier need to know why they are there. I joined at a tender age and served for ten years. I served in 3 conflicts and lost a number of close friends. My training (don't believe the old soldiers when they say it is getting easier) was brutal. They knocked the ability to think out of NCOs and Officers do the thinking and make the decisions. If you think then you don't react. A soldier is there to obey and follow orders, good or bad. They are there to work as a team not an individual.
So is there really a need for them to know the reason or just for them to do the job they have been trained to do and, fingers crossed, come home safe and to their loved ones. Their job is not a nine to five where you have the ability to look back with hindsight or have a meeting to discuss things. When they have to work, it is usually in the most dangerous situations that a job could throw at you and you have seconds not hours to respond. So a debate on the rights and wrongs of going to a war is not high on the priority list when some madman is trying to put you six feet under, not for most soldiers anyway.
As for the rights or wrongs of the war? You are damned if you do or damned if you don't.
Dave_Notts
Warming the Bed
Ver y very true Dave, I served for 23 years and I hope every last one of the boys come home safe and sound too.
Sex God
Quote by Dave__Notts
There is so much to say about this subject, either for or against. I don't want to rant about the rights or wrongs of the war but one part of what you wrote did spring out at me.
You stated " don't know what the point of the situation is & their in it."
Quite true. However, does a soldier need to know why they are there. I joined at a tender age and served for ten years. I served in 3 conflicts and lost a number of close friends. My training (don't believe the old soldiers when they say it is getting easier) was brutal. They knocked the ability to think out of NCOs and Officers do the thinking and make the decisions. If you think then you don't react. A soldier is there to obey and follow orders, good or bad. They are there to work as a team not an individual.
So is there really a need for them to know the reason or just for them to do the job they have been trained to do and, fingers crossed, come home safe and to their loved ones. Their job is not a nine to five where you have the ability to look back with hindsight or have a meeting to discuss things. When they have to work, it is usually in the most dangerous situations that a job could throw at you and you have seconds not hours to respond. So a debate on the rights and wrongs of going to a war is not high on the priority list when some madman is trying to put you six feet under, not for most soldiers anyway.
As for the rights or wrongs of the war? You are damned if you do or damned if you don't.
Dave_Notts
Agreed. If the soldiers stopped to think about what they were doing or how they were doing it then that would not only lead to a hell of a lot of the soldiers telling their commanders to feck off, but if they did it out in the field it puts everyones lives at risk, firends and civillians alike. Not a good situation at all. If you want to see what an undisciplined army looks have a read about the situations in Mogadishu and Sierra Leone.
As an aside my thoughts are with the young lad who's now facing a murder trial...
he served Queen and country and he's now being rewarded with a murder trial. If he did do it he should still be facing a court martial and not a civvy trial.
If you ask me, this is more about a witch-hunt in reply to the allegations of abuse in Iraq and less about justice. I remember the trials of the para who shot a joyrider in Northern Ireland and how long that was dragged out for. All political puppets on government strings.
You are absolutely right easy. A courts martial is what the lad should face and not a civilian trial.
Your well thought out post hits the nail on the head, better than mine (git!!! lol)
I also read with interest allegations of abuse by British soldiers on the battlefield against prisoners. This included putting hoods over their heads.
Oh the poor souls. How do these people think you can control an enemy who is so psyched up to kill he would kill you within a blink of an eye. Perhaps we should sit them down and say "Repeat after me" "I promise to be nice and won't try to kill you anymore or try to escape". These people should wake up and realise that inhuman things sometimes have to happen to some so the majority can live their lives in their ivory towers. That is war and shit sometimes happens.
However, being an ex-squaddie, people don't realise that those who do not want the war the most............are those that have to fight it. But when the gauntlet is down, they do. Every single service man or woman deserves our gratitude now, in the future and the past.
Dave_Notts
Your well thought out post hits the nail on the head, better than mine (git!!! lol)
I also read with interest allegations of abuse by British soldiers on the battlefield against prisoners. This included putting hoods over their heads.
Oh the poor souls. How do these people think you can control an enemy who is so psyched up to kill he would kill you within a blink of an eye. Perhaps we should sit them down and say "Repeat after me" "I promise to be nice and won't try to kill you anymore or try to escape". These people should wake up and realise that inhuman things sometimes have to happen to some so the majority can live their lives in their ivory towers. That is war and shit sometimes happens.
However, being an ex-squaddie, people don't realise that those who do not want the war the most............are those that have to fight it. But when the gauntlet is down, they do. Every single service man or woman deserves our gratitude now, in the future and the past.
Dave_Notts
Dragon dé Ecstacy
First of all i think its great that someone has chosen a serious and interesting topic to start a discussion about. I
m sure there is a place for lighter topice but the more variety the better!!
Iraq was doomed from the start. Ut was only a matter of time before both the Iraq and American public saw through GWB.
Im afraid ive not seen the tv programme in question so i cant comment on it.
However the real question we should be asking is what do we do now, how do we make progress with Iraq? After all the devistation we have caused we cant moraly just pull out. and abandon them.
First of all i think its great that someone has chosen a serious and interesting topic to start a discussion about. I
m sure there is a place for lighter topice but the more variety the better!!
Iraq was doomed from the start. Ut was only a matter of time before both the Iraq and American public saw through GWB.
Im afraid ive not seen the tv programme in question so i cant comment on it.
However the real question we should be asking is what do we do now, how do we make progress with Iraq? After all the devistation we have caused we cant moraly just pull out. and abandon them.
hi all,
havent not seen the programme..dont know what the content was..........
but we can say we have a friend working in iraq and know through conversations lately things have become alot worse over the last few weeks and our love goes out to him and his family over what he has experienced and wittnessed....
all we can do is hope now things move on for the better
candj
xx
havent not seen the programme..dont know what the content was..........
but we can say we have a friend working in iraq and know through conversations lately things have become alot worse over the last few weeks and our love goes out to him and his family over what he has experienced and wittnessed....
all we can do is hope now things move on for the better
candj
xx
Dear Alll,
Many thanks for the people that did put their pennyworth of ideas on this subject.
I do realise their is a very fine line when putting posts about Politics but this issue is just very important & I have respect for ANYONE that has a viewpoint.
Due to the world that we live in some people are more worried about the new polt lines in Soaps rather than the real world stuff. I do realise that TV makes people forget about the World / People that at times can be a very harsh place in which to live.
So thanks again.
Many thanks for the people that did put their pennyworth of ideas on this subject.
I do realise their is a very fine line when putting posts about Politics but this issue is just very important & I have respect for ANYONE that has a viewpoint.
Due to the world that we live in some people are more worried about the new polt lines in Soaps rather than the real world stuff. I do realise that TV makes people forget about the World / People that at times can be a very harsh place in which to live.
So thanks again.
