RIP Amy winehouse

25 Jul 2011

TBH I don't care. She's killed herself with her own stupidity and lack of self respect. Even her own Father was expecting this one day, so it's no great shock. I understand that her family and friends will mourn her, but I didn't know her and won't mourn her passing at all. She's just another druggie who has chosen to die.

25 Jul 2011

Quote by HimandHer
I don't think anyone is in a position to judge Amy and her addictions.
My thoughts are with her family and friends. I hope she's found the peace she was searching for

:thumbup:
I think I am in a position to judge her... and probably the courts, the local health authority, anyone who bought a ticket for the concert where she was "booed" of stage and anyone who has an impressionable child who thinks she is cool.
Importantly I don't care that she is dead, her life meant nothing to me and her cessation of existence does not impact upon me in anyway. However, I wouldn't wish her dead, and if I had the power to turn back time and show her where she would end up then I would gladly do so.
That does not displace the concept that she and people like her need to be judged, otherwise how can you determine whether the example that she set is one that should be followed or not.
I'm not going to get drawn into a debate over this, but stand by my original comment.
Russel Brands words below sum it up quite nicely for me:

When you love someone who suffers from the disease of addiction you await the phone call. There will be a phone call. The sincere hope is that the call will be from the addict themselves, telling you they've had enough, that they're ready to stop, ready to try something new. Of course though, you fear the other call, the sad nocturnal chime from a friend or relative telling you it's too late, she's gone.

25 Jul 2011

Quote by poshkate
Russel Brands words below sum it up quite nicely for me:

coming from a fellow drug user means nothing. the same mr brand who is equally as offensive as her. i wonder if they used the same dealer? :twisted:
of course peeple can judge her when they see kids copying there idols and taking drugs as well.
maybe something positive will come out of her death though i cannot think of one single thing that will.
sorry but having lost someone recently to drug abuse i feel nothing for her death.

25 Jul 2011

Quote by starlightcouple

Russel Brands words below sum it up quite nicely for me:

coming from a fellow drug user means nothing. the same mr brand who is equally as offensive as her. i wonder if they used the same dealer? :twisted:
of course peeple can judge her when they see kids copying there idols and taking drugs as well.
maybe something positive will come out of her death though i cannot think of one single thing that will.
sorry but having lost someone recently to drug abuse i feel nothing for her death.

careful your halo doesn't slip over your blinkers wink

25 Jul 2011

Quote by starlightcouple
of course peeple can judge her when they see kids copying there idols and taking drugs as well.
maybe something positive will come out of her death though i cannot think of one single thing that will.

My 15 year old lad said that maybe schools can use the situation to teach kids the damage drugs can cause.
Not all kids follow the pack, some of them are smarter than that.

25 Jul 2011

i can`t believe that swingers are being so judgemental about how someone else lead their life :silly:

25 Jul 2011

Quote by Lizaleanrob
i can believe that swingers are being so judgemental about how someone else lead their life :silly:

Now thats ones sure to provoke a reaction lol

But yeh I know what you are saying. Anyone of us ever becomes famous you can be sure this will all surface and we would all be just as bad of an example as Amy.

25 Jul 2011

Quote by Lizaleanrob
i can`t believe that swingers are being so judgemental about how someone else lead their life :silly:

I can't believe that this has come as a surprise to you.

25 Jul 2011

I can't beleive there are people on here who equate destroying your life with drink and drugs - rejecting all help and support to get away from it - with leading a swinging life-style.

25 Jul 2011

Quote by Lizaleanrob
i really can't see the big deal
i was told in the ca forum that the harmless type of drugs she was using should be legalised
:doh:

No you were told that adults should be allowed to make informed decisions about what they choose to put in their bodies

25 Jul 2011

On topic a sad waste of a great talent... unfortunately some appetites are more destructive than others .... to condemn someone for having one appetite rather than another seems ridiculous

25 Jul 2011

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
On topic a sad waste of a great talent... unfortunately some appetites are more destructive than others .... to condemn someone for having one appetite rather than another seems ridiculous

I agree that some appetites are more destructive than others but I do not think it is ridculous to condemn anyone for having an appetite that may seem more ridiculous than mine, whether it be relatively harmless or entirely harmful.
Some people have an appetite for murdering prostitutes.
Some people have an appetite for abusing children.
Some people have an appetite for drinking too much.
Some people have an appetite for entering online competitions.
Clearly some of those examples are severe and some are stupid, but the point is to condemn one over the other is entirely proper I feel, but perhaps that's just me and an appetite for certain behaviours may be OK and a matter of choice.
As for the orginal subject, whether you think she was talented or not is a matter of personal taste, whether she abused drugs is a matter of opinion influenced by your own moral values - whether she is dead or not is a matter of fact and it will be for personal view to state whether one or more of the facets of her personality influenced her demise or not.... until the coroners report is released (I suspect however that cocaine, heroin, meth-amphetimie of MDMA will feature in the text somewhere).
Fortunately, there will always be those that defend a lost cause, and those will condemn purely on the grounds of what they believe to be true (irrespective of whether it is or not).
Either way, my own view is that you reap what you sow, nevertheless I accept other people have different views and if the bleeding heart brigade want to sponsor another plinth in Trafalgar Square and wheel out Elton John for another crap remix of a shite song to commemorate her passing - then fair play to them.

25 Jul 2011

Quote by HimandHer
On topic a sad waste of a great talent... unfortunately some appetites are more destructive than others .... to condemn someone for having one appetite rather than another seems ridiculous

I agree that some appetites are more destructive than others but I do not think it is ridculous to condemn anyone for having an appetite that may seem more ridiculous than mine, whether it be relatively harmless or entirely harmful.
Some people have an appetite for murdering prostitutes.
Some people have an appetite for abusing children.
Some people have an appetite for drinking too much.
Some people have an appetite for entering online competitions.
Clearly some of those examples are severe and some are stupid, but the point is to condemn one over the other is entirely proper I feel, but perhaps that's just me and an appetite for certain behaviours may be OK and a matter of choice.
As for the orginal subject, whether you think she was talented or not is a matter of personal taste, whether she abused drugs is a matter of opinion influenced by your own moral values - whether she is dead or not is a matter of fact and it will be for personal view to state whether one or more of the facets of her personality influenced her demise or not.... until the coroners report is released (I suspect however that cocaine, heroin, meth-amphetimie of MDMA will feature in the text somewhere).
Fortunately, there will always be those that defend a lost cause, and those will condemn purely on the grounds of what they believe to be true (irrespective of whether it is or not).
Either way, my own view is that you reap what you sow, nevertheless I accept other people have different views and if the bleeding heart brigade want to sponsor another plinth in Trafalgar Square and wheel out Elton John for another crap remix of a shite song to commemorate her passing - then fair play to them.
Or perhaps I was a little too vague.....some have an appetite for auto-asphyxiation others for gags some for other forms of breath control and some for nailing each others cocks to tables ..... I was trying to address the swinging connection.... I shall be more explicit next time

26 Jul 2011

Quote by foxylady2209
I can't beleive there are people on here who equate destroying your life with drink and drugs - rejecting all help and support to get away from it - with leading a swinging life-style.

Some people (Not site users) would consider swinging as equally as bad/sinful/wrong/dirty as using drugs. I doubt if you were famous that you would get a positive tabloid headline for being a swinger?

26 Jul 2011

Quote by essex34m
i can`t believe that swingers are being so judgemental about how someone else lead their life :silly:

I can't believe that this has come as a surprise to you.
there really should be an irony emoticon lol

26 Jul 2011

Quote by tweeky
I can't beleive there are people on here who equate destroying your life with drink and drugs - rejecting all help and support to get away from it - with leading a swinging life-style.

Some people (Not site users) would consider swinging as equally as bad/sinful/wrong/dirty as using drugs. I doubt if you were famous that you would get a positive tabloid headline for being a swinger?
yes tweeky my sentiments exactly
famous doggers include the actor who plays plays phil mitchell and stan colymore
i think on of these had a 4 page centre spread dedicated in the notw
far more than drink and drug toting amy winehouse,ronnie wood ,or pete docherty ever got on one story blink

26 Jul 2011

Quote by flower411

famous doggers include the actor who plays plays phil mitchell and stan colymore

Wow !! He must have great make up, those two don`t look at all alike.
I must admit I didn`t even know Stan Colymore was played by an actor.
Thanks for making me lose my coffee.....................but I did click to what they meant
Dave_Notts

26 Jul 2011

Quote by Dawnie
of course peeple can judge her when they see kids copying there idols and taking drugs as well.
maybe something positive will come out of her death though i cannot think of one single thing that will.

My 15 year old lad said that maybe schools can use the situation to teach kids the damage drugs can cause.
Not all kids follow the pack, some of them are smarter than that.
I've heard tell of one person who has been using before and after pics of Amy for some time to get across the damage that drugs and alcohol can do. Interestingly, for 16 year olds it's often the thought that they might lose their looks that's more powerful than the usual spiel along the lines that 'drugs are bad kids, m'kay', especially for those who've already discovered that, actually, drugs can be shit loads of fun.
HimandHer, of course it is possible to make a judgement that, say, much of Amy's behaviour over the last few years of her life was causing untold damage to herself and others. That's not quite the same as judging the person, which is what you appear to be doing, a person who was probably suffering from a mental illness that in combination with the effects of the substances she was taking, and the goldfish-bowl constant scrutiny she lived under, and the people she became surrounded with who cared little for her made her initial decision to experiment a particularly deadly one for her. I pity her.
N x x x ;)

26 Jul 2011

Quote by Lizaleanrob
I can't beleive there are people on here who equate destroying your life with drink and drugs - rejecting all help and support to get away from it - with leading a swinging life-style.

Some people (Not site users) would consider swinging as equally as bad/sinful/wrong/dirty as using drugs. I doubt if you were famous that you would get a positive tabloid headline for being a swinger?
yes tweeky my sentiments exactly
famous doggers include the actor who plays plays phil mitchell and stan colymore
i think on of these had a 4 page centre spread dedicated in the notw
far more than drink and drug toting amy winehouse,ronnie wood ,or pete docherty ever got on one story blink

Swinging isn't addictive (chemically addictive, I should be precise) nor does it kill you. You may die while swinging but that would be a side-issue. Bondage and auto-suffocation are NOT swinging - they are often indulged in by people who wouldn't consider ever swingng.
Dying of drug-taking is a known, common and direct result. Sadly a person is likely to be thought worse of as a swinger than as a (wholly voluntary and knowing) drug-taker.
And the same day the poor woman died, there was an advert for a lipstick called Addiction. Sick.

26 Jul 2011

Quote by foxylady2209
I can't beleive there are people on here who equate destroying your life with drink and drugs - rejecting all help and support to get away from it - with leading a swinging life-style.

Some people (Not site users) would consider swinging as equally as bad/sinful/wrong/dirty as using drugs. I doubt if you were famous that you would get a positive tabloid headline for being a swinger?
yes tweeky my sentiments exactly
famous doggers include the actor who plays plays phil mitchell and stan colymore
i think on of these had a 4 page centre spread dedicated in the notw
far more than drink and drug toting amy winehouse,ronnie wood ,or pete docherty ever got on one story blink

Swinging isn't addictive (chemically addictive, I should be precise) nor does it kill you. You may die while swinging but that would be a side-issue. Bondage and auto-suffocation are NOT swinging - they are often indulged in by people who wouldn't consider ever swingng.
Dying of drug-taking is a known, common and direct result. Sadly a person is likely to be thought worse of as a swinger than as a (wholly voluntary and knowing) drug-taker.
And the same day the poor woman died, there was an advert for a lipstick called Addiction. Sick.
Ref the bold, yeh pretty much exactly the case and why not so many users have face pics up. Death by drug addiction is less common than some may think. Prescribed drugs kill far more people per ratio of use each year than illegal drugs do.

28 Jul 2011

Quote by foxylady2209
Dying of drug-taking is a known, common and direct result. Sadly a person is likely to be thought worse of as a swinger than as a (wholly voluntary and knowing) drug-taker.

Did I read on the news correctly the suggestion that she died as a result of going on the wagon and not drinking for 3 weeks?
Is that possible?

28 Jul 2011

Its very common for those who habitually drink to die when they cease to do so.

28 Jul 2011

So, it was a mistake then to tell George Best to stop drinking after his liver operation and that's why he went back on the bottle? dunno

28 Jul 2011

No, the dangers associated with sudden alcohol withdrawal are the reason people undertake "detox", which at its best is a supervised medicated withdrawal in a hospital environment and at its worst is a GP giving the alcohol user a scrip for some valium and wishing him or her good luck. Without detox the risk of death from alcohol withdrawal are significant.

28 Jul 2011

Quote by GnV
Dying of drug-taking is a known, common and direct result. Sadly a person is likely to be thought worse of as a swinger than as a (wholly voluntary and knowing) drug-taker.

Did I read on the news correctly the suggestion that she died as a result of going on the wagon and not drinking for 3 weeks?
Is that possible?
The 3 weeks thing is kind of odd GnV, as acute withdrawal symptoms generally peak 3-5 days into a detox AFAIK. So-called post-acute or protracted withdrawal is common, and alcohol withdrawal can be fatal, but deaths occur generally only during the acute phase I think. Symptoms are mostly rebound effects caused by an excess of certain neurotransmitters which the body has learned to overproduce to counter the sedative effects of alcohol, a similar mechanism to that responsible for Heroin withdrawal symptoms, making alcoholism a true physical dependency requiring managed detoxing, but the body steadily comes back into balance over the course of a week or so.
N x x x ;)

28 Jul 2011

Thanks NIL. Interesting issues there.
Is that the same for any amount of alcohol 'dependency' or just in the more serious cases?
I mean, a bottle of ordinary table wine per day is more likely habitual than dependency IMHO but a bottle of vodka a day is more likely dependency (I can see that one can lead to the other eventually if unchecked).
Is weaning yourself off a bottle of table wine per day likely to be as harmful in this context requiring medical supervision than it would more clearly be in the case of the bottle of vodka per day?

28 Jul 2011

Quote by GnV
Thanks NIL. Interesting issues there.
Is that the same for any amount of alcohol 'dependency' or just in the more serious cases?
I mean, a bottle of ordinary table wine per day is more likely habitual than dependency IMHO but a bottle of vodka a day is more likely dependency (I can see that one can lead to the other eventually if unchecked).
Is weaning yourself off a bottle of table wine per day likely to be as harmful in this context requiring medical supervision than it would more clearly be in the case of the bottle of vodka per day?

Addiction to alcohol is not measured in amounts its measured on the dependancy. Some who only drinks 2 glasses of wine per day but couldetn go without them is an addict. They may not be damaging themselves but they are still an addict.
When my Brother stopped heavy drinking he had three fits one whilst standing on a 4ft wall in the garden and ended up in hospital. We were told its to do with increased oxygen to the brain dunno

The docs can give you tablets to stop the fitting.

28 Jul 2011

Nicked this off wikipedia.
"According to the DSM-IV criteria for alcohol dependence, at least three out of seven of the following criteria must be manifest during a 12 month period:
Tolerance
Withdrawal symptoms or clinically defined Alcohol Withdrawal Syndrome
Use in larger amounts or for longer periods than intended
Persistent desire or unsuccessful efforts to cut down on alcohol use
Time is spent obtaining alcohol or recovering from effects
Social, occupational and recreational pursuits are given up or reduced because of alcohol use
Use is continued despite knowledge of alcohol-related harm (physical or psychological)"
Now frankly this covers an awful lot of folk who consider themselves social drinkers with a normal drinking habit. My advice,based on my life experiences, to ANYONE thinking about cutting down or ceasing alcohol consumption is to talk to their GP first.

29 Jul 2011

Quote by GnV
Thanks NIL. Interesting issues there.
Is that the same for any amount of alcohol 'dependency' or just in the more serious cases?
I mean, a bottle of ordinary table wine per day is more likely habitual than dependency IMHO but a bottle of vodka a day is more likely dependency (I can see that one can lead to the other eventually if unchecked).
Is weaning yourself off a bottle of table wine per day likely to be as harmful in this context requiring medical supervision than it would more clearly be in the case of the bottle of vodka per day?

There's a lot of cross-over GnV between prolonged, habitual use and true alcoholism I think GnV, and various levels of addiction. There are those who suffer clinical withdrawal symptoms which are signs of a true physical dependency, which is not necessarily related to tipple of choice or the amount drunk, and then there are those who suffer no ill effects whatsoever when they stop drinking, but would still be defined as alcoholic. I'm thinking the kind of alcoholic who can't stop once they start, often drinking themselves to oblivion, stopping only when they can't physically take any more alcohol into their system, who can go for a few days without a drink but can't stop obsessing on their next one. It's difficult to predict at what point habitual use becomes a proper physical dependency, and it's generally impossible to predict what the effects of stopping drinking will be for those users. Often it's only when clinical symptoms become apparent that you could say a line has been crossed somewhere, hence the need for proper medical advice and supervision where appropriate for any habitual heavy user who's thinking of stopping drinking.
N x x x ;)

29 Jul 2011

Quote by Ben_Minx
My advice,based on my life experiences, to ANYONE thinking about cutting down or ceasing alcohol consumption is to talk to their GP first.

that would be good advise ben.
was she not seen by a doctor a couple of days before she died ? if that is true and it proves she did die from refraining to quickly from drink, i wonder what that doctor was examining her for dunno