RIP Amy winehouse

29 Jul 2011

Quote by starlightcouple
My advice,based on my life experiences, to ANYONE thinking about cutting down or ceasing alcohol consumption is to talk to their GP first.

that would be good advise ben.
was she not seen by a doctor a couple of days before she died ? if that is true and it proves she did die from refraining to quickly from drink, i wonder what that doctor was examining her for dunno

fair points star
i do hope your able to to hold a set bager trap in your mouth wilst free diving to 60 meters
for over 2 hours if your looking for an answer to that one

29 Jul 2011

Quote by Lizaleanrob
My advice,based on my life experiences, to ANYONE thinking about cutting down or ceasing alcohol consumption is to talk to their GP first.

that would be good advise ben.
was she not seen by a doctor a couple of days before she died ? if that is true and it proves she did die from refraining to quickly from drink, i wonder what that doctor was examining her for dunno

fair points star
i do hope your able to to hold a set bager trap in your mouth wilst free diving to 60 meters
for over 2 hours if your looking for an answer to that one
i am capable of many things rob wink

29 Jul 2011

Quote by Ben_Minx
Nicked this off wikipedia.
"According to the DSM-IV criteria for alcohol dependence, at least three out of seven of the following criteria must be manifest during a 12 month period:
Tolerance
Withdrawal symptoms or clinically defined Alcohol Withdrawal Syndrome
Use in larger amounts or for longer periods than intended
Persistent desire or unsuccessful efforts to cut down on alcohol use
Time is spent obtaining alcohol or recovering from effects
Social, occupational and recreational pursuits are given up or reduced because of alcohol use
Use is continued despite knowledge of alcohol-related harm (physical or psychological)"
Now frankly this covers an awful lot of folk who consider themselves social drinkers with a normal drinking habit. My advice,based on my life experiences, to ANYONE thinking about cutting down or ceasing alcohol consumption is to talk to their GP first.

ANYONE... I mean anyone.
Is that not a little bit overly cautious. There are many people who take a break from their normal drinking habits, maybe for a couple of weeks, maybe months or maybe longer. It can be for a whole host of reasons, I drink regularly, I mean every night - so I probably meet the last of the of these dependancy criteria but I would not say I was an addict even if someone else would.
Nevertheless, I have stopped drinking instantly on previous occassions for weeks or months at a time, but I did not consult my doctor beforehand - I am not sure whether he would have just told me to clear off because he had a surgery of sick people to deal with.
I drink regularly, because I like alcohol and the effect that it has, OK - call me an addict, I have stopped drinking instantly on previous occassions either because my job demanded it, or because I was on medication for illnesses, or simply because I was skint, and my doctor's view is neither here nor there. So I am not entirely convinced that anyone should contact their doctor if they are planning on ceasing alcohol consumption unless "anyone" is confined to anyone who thinks they have a drink problem.

29 Jul 2011

Quote by starlightcouple
i am capable of many things

Pure conjecture being the least of them, perhaps? confused

:P

Quote by Hinmnher
*snips*

Think Ben was prolly trying to do that harm-reduction kinda thing what is de-rigeur on the interwebs these days, but yes, the DSM-IV criteria is without doubt overly broad.
You have discovered that you're not actually an alcoholic, despite your intake, cos you were able to manage your alcohol intake with no ill effects. Well done you! Not sure though that in any way negates Ben's suggestion that heavy users seek medical advice? :? Not because 'anyone' is limited to those who know they have an alcohol problem, but because 'anyone' often includes those who don't, denial being quite often a defining characteristic of addiction? :?
N x x x ;)

29 Jul 2011

I am not convinced.
"Anyone" has a pretty clear definition in my mind, and I don't believe that anyone who wants to cut down drinking needs to consult a doctor.
I accept that "Anyone" includes those in denial, but my point is that it is overly cautious to the point of risk aversion for anyone wishing to reduce or cut down their alcohol consumption to consult a doctor first.
Of course, I am not saying that a doctor cannot help - I am saying that not everyone needs their advice.
I am "anyone", and I didn't need my doctor's advice.

29 Jul 2011

Quote by HimandHer
I am not convinced.

Possibly because I'm not so erudite as I'd like to be? Alas! sad

Quote by HimandHer
"Anyone" has a pretty clear definition in my mind, and I don't believe that anyone who wants to cut down drinking needs to consult a doctor.

In the nicest possible way, it occurs to me that you may have missed, or have otherwise chosen to ignore explicit qualifiers like heavy, prolonged, and habitual? confused

Think we can take it as read there's also an implied problematic in there somewhere too? dunno

N x x x ;)

29 Jul 2011

Quote by neilinleeds
In the nicest possible way, it occurs to me that you may have missed, or have otherwise chosen to ignore explicit qualifiers like heavy, prolonged, and habitual? Think we can take it as read there's also an implied problematic in there somewhere too?
N x x x ;)

My response was to Ben's post, and am now responding to yours... however in either case can you show me where the words "Prolonged" and "Habitual" appear in either yours or his posts.
I don't choose to ignore anything in an argument but you cannot introduce words that don't exist.
EDITED TO SAY....
Ben's advice is purely that - I don't accept it that's all.

29 Jul 2011

Quote by HimandHer
My response was to Ben's post, and am now responding to yours... however in either case can you show me where the words "Prolonged" and "Habitual" appear in either yours or his posts.

Ummmm . . . yes, yes I can atcherly . . . t'is just up there, eight or nine words in from the left, first sentence, second post down, page four of this very thread, and three or four words in from the right, one line up from the last confused

Quote by HnH
I don't choose to ignore anything in an argument but you cannot introduce words that don't exist.

Not sure I did anything of the sort? I refer you to the aforementioned paragragh.
HTH? dunno

;)
N x x x ;)

29 Jul 2011

You win. I lose.
Everyone should go to the doctor.

29 Jul 2011

Quote by HimandHer
You win. I lose.
Everyone should go to the doctor.

Ouch! That's not the game we've been playing, is it? I thought we was trying to enter into a conversation that might include answers to questions and an exchange of ideas, in a constructive, objective, and factually accurate kinda way? I'm really not interested in point scoring TBQH.
N x x x ;)

30 Jul 2011

I guess at the end of the day it's up to the individual whether or not they go see their GP or some other 'specialist' when considering something that might potentially impact on their life style health wise.
I gave up smoking over 25 years ago before the 'nanny' ideas brigade got in on the act and supplied nicotine patches and 'forever yours' telephone help lines to prolong the agony.
I managed my 'addiction' just by pure will and a little understanding of what changes my respiratory tract was being subject to by nicotine withdrawal. It worked. No Doctors, no tests before hand, no tests afterwards. I really don't like Doctors (as a profession, rather than the individual) anyway and steer well clear of them. There were some occasions when I coughed my lungs up and wondered if it was all worth it but I persisted without medical supervision or being asked to perform as a 'guinea pig' for some new treatment or other and I came out the other side a truly reformed smoker to the effect that I no longer have any cravings for the evil weed at all. I was really helped in this by a bit of self psychology and a very supportive wife (who had never smoked) but it was just a positive mental attitude in the end that made me achieve the objective.
I can see where HimandHer are coming from on their comments. Every visit to a Doctor here in France costs, I think, 26€ for an appointment. That equates to about 8 bottles of table wine (much cheaper here wink

) or quite a few bottles of cheap vodka and, anyway, Doctor's surgeries are for 'sick' people - aren't they? If you can't afford to drink, just stop and also save yourself the cost of getting 'sucked in' to the prolonged treatments often prescribed (which probably involves drinking a measure of surgical grade meths every day anyway).
And just remember (I'm sure someone more clever with the Wiki sites will find a reference) a significant number of Doctors die from either alcohol abuse, tobacco abuse, substance abuse or all three so what gives them a right to preach to us mere mortals who just wish to become 'nice' fragrant people again?

30 Jul 2011

Quote by starlightcouple
My advice,based on my life experiences, to ANYONE thinking about cutting down or ceasing alcohol consumption is to talk to their GP first.

that would be good advise ben.
was she not seen by a doctor a couple of days before she died ? if that is true and it proves she did die from refraining to quickly from drink, i wonder what that doctor was examining her for dunno

fair points star
i do hope your able to to hold a set bager trap in your mouth wilst free diving to 60 meters
for over 2 hours if your looking for an answer to that one
i am capable of many things rob wink

except obtaining a reply it seems

:rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:

30 Jul 2011

Quote by Lizaleanrob
My advice,based on my life experiences, to ANYONE thinking about cutting down or ceasing alcohol consumption is to talk to their GP first.

that would be good advise ben.
was she not seen by a doctor a couple of days before she died ? if that is true and it proves she did die from refraining to quickly from drink, i wonder what that doctor was examining her for dunno

fair points star
i do hope your able to to hold a set bager trap in your mouth wilst free diving to 60 meters
for over 2 hours if your looking for an answer to that one
i am capable of many things rob wink

except obtaining a reply it seems

:rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:
Maybe her coroner or doctor is not a member of this site :dunno:
Dave_Notts

30 Jul 2011

Quote by neilinleeds
Ouch! That's not the game we've been playing, is it? I thought we was trying to enter into a conversation that might include answers to questions and an exchange of ideas, in a constructive, objective, and factually accurate kinda way? I'm really not interested in point scoring TBQH.
N x x x ;)

:laughabove::laughabove::laughabove: that does not happen to often
i shall slink off to the arsehole corner :grin::grin:

30 Jul 2011

Yeah doctors!
50 years ago if you went to see your doctor about a nagging cough he would probably recommend you change your tobacco!

30 Jul 2011

Quote by duncanlondon
Yeah doctors!
50 years ago if you went to see your doctor about a nagging cough he would probably recommend you change your tobacco!

Debates between doctors and researchers on the acceptable use levels of any harmful chemical go round in circles for months. Advice levels are often published because, as is often the case in many things, the extremists shout louder and are prepared to go round in circles for longer until they win. Setting unrealistic 'harmful quantities' is often self defeating when younger people can see with their own eyes people exceeding them and suffering no ill effects.
As mentioned by previous posters I believe there are underlying psychological reasons for people like Amy to want the real world blacked out by drugs. These reasons are often stronger than the logic put to them to recover.
There is a massive difference between taking drugs or alcohol to enhance a good experience as many people do, and simply believing that they will make your world feel better if you take them. There is no education offered to these people on managing their use if they do, its rehab and quit or no support at all
Sadly many people go Amys route, perhaps we should offer more than two paths then other families might not have to suffer when people fail to grasp the only harsh and often judgemental lifeline they are thrown.

30 Jul 2011

As the daughter of a functioning alcoholic, I think people shouldn't underestimate the power and insidious harm that alcohol does. And the difficulty there is, as a family member or loved one, in actually being able to help an addict.

30 Jul 2011

we have an addict in our family and he's been at it for nigh on 40 years now. but he likes and more or less lives for it. he's had highs and lows but still hangs in there with it, stopping and starting.
that makes quite a difference in how you manage it as well. he's never had enough money to buy much, so uses it at a 'sensible' level. living with and without it. so in effect has become a seasoned and experienced user.
but a vulnerable novice with an unlimited supply can and usually does end up a disaster case. because there is no controlling factor, which is mostly the supply of, cost of, opportunity of. in the celebrity world there is no control.
the only escape from the drug and the world providing it, was the drug itself.
but performing is a demanding discipline, and she lost that.

30 Jul 2011

BeginHijack

Quote by Big_Fraser
snip... as is often the case in many things, the extremists shout louder and are prepared to go round in circles for longer until they win.

EndHijack
This could have been equally true in gulsons threads in the CA Forum....
bolt

31 Jul 2011

Himandher, thread's moved a bit since, but reading back through it it occurs to me that at one point at least I was being a bit of a sarcastically arrogant twat. No need for it, and should know better by now than to fall into that trap. Just saying like.
N x x x ;)