I thought I would start a new thread, so as not to hijack the single married men thread.
I am interested to know how people would feel playing with a single married woman? I ask because after reading the single married men thread, it seems that there is some disparity between the two - like the situations are different.
When it comes to finding women who play alone do you adjust your moral goal posts because there are a lot less women around? If so, why?
Or is your rule: I'm not playing with anyone who is married/cheating full stop?
My opinion is you won't play with a man for 'moral' reasons, then you should have the courage of your convictions and not play with single married women either. What’s good for the Goose is good for the gander, and it just feels like another excuse to slag men off.
I can't say whether I would play with somebody who is 'cheating' or not because every situation is different. I have had a long-term relationship with a married man, and although I wouldn’t recommend it, swinging and relationships are different.
This thread is not aimed at anyone in particular at all – I just think it’s a question that could throw up a few interesting answers.
IN EDIT: After rereading this I think the point I was also trying to get at is do we view women cheating and men cheating as two different things?
A woman who cheats may be sympathised with as "she must be in a bad relationship" or "her husband doesn't perform obviously" etc etc.
A man who cheats may be thought of as a " cheating b*strd" or a "typical bloke".
They are both cheating.
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Single married women.
Quote by Kiss
Or is your rule: I'm not playing with anyone who is married/cheating full stop?
For us that is pretty much it. We won't encourage anyone to be unfaithful, male or female.
I know we can't always get it right but for us, swinging is all about consent. Being unfaithful means a person being left at home is not able to give consent
What an excellent question Kiss !
I've met a few married women socially and with the view to meet up 'properly' but with all of the ones I've met, the husband/partner has given them permission to play alone. I know this to be true as I've met the hubbys too. I'm not saying it's true of ALL married women playing alone, just the ones I've met so far. That said, I don't think I would even bother to meet if I thought they were doing it behind their hubby's back.
I find it interesting that some men have no qualms about their wives and girlfriends playing on their own but it seems to be a sticking point for a lot of women.
I have a regular male friend that knows I meet other women and he's ok with it although he doesn't meet anyone else on his own. I wouldn't have an issue if he did though I have to admit, if he was my husband or life partner and not a swinging partner, I'm not sure I would accept him swinging without me.
That may sound like double standards to some people but maybe men are more accepting if their wives/girlfrineds are meeting women and not men.
Does that make sense to you? I am lacking sleep as I typed this so I've got something to blame besides my blond brain
I've met a few married women socially and with the view to meet up 'properly' but with all of the ones I've met, the husband/partner has given them permission to play alone. I know this to be true as I've met the hubbys too. I'm not saying it's true of ALL married women playing alone, just the ones I've met so far. That said, I don't think I would even bother to meet if I thought they were doing it behind their hubby's back.
I find it interesting that some men have no qualms about their wives and girlfriends playing on their own but it seems to be a sticking point for a lot of women.
I have a regular male friend that knows I meet other women and he's ok with it although he doesn't meet anyone else on his own. I wouldn't have an issue if he did though I have to admit, if he was my husband or life partner and not a swinging partner, I'm not sure I would accept him swinging without me. That may sound like double standards to some people but maybe men are more accepting if their wives/girlfrineds are meeting women and not men.
Does that make sense to you? I am lacking sleep as I typed this so I've got something to blame besides my blond brain
i asked the very same question is the single men thread as it did seem the men were getting the short straw and all classed as cheaters or lying but many would play with a fem single or otherwise
i think if you are playing with singles there is always that risk because they might be lying to you as well as there partner and that goes for men and women
we only play with single women and couples we havnt actally met a single fem yet but it does scare me that a big mad bloke would come looking for us armed with baseball bat so i wouldnt actually go with a single women if i knew or had suspisions that she was in a relationship
i think if you are playing with singles there is always that risk because they might be lying to you as well as there partner and that goes for men and women
we only play with single women and couples we havnt actally met a single fem yet but it does scare me that a big mad bloke would come looking for us armed with baseball bat so i wouldnt actually go with a single women if i knew or had suspisions that she was in a relationship
Sex God
Quote by Kiss
Or is your rule: I'm not playing with anyone who is married/cheating full stop?
:thumbup:
Whats good for the goose etc.
There are plenty of married women around who's partners assent to them playing alone.
cheating is cheating whichever way you look at it or try to justify it. I thik it has a lot to do with the fact of how much empathy you have for others, even those you have never met. We couldn't do simply because we would never want to be in the unknowing partners possition ourselves, and would never want to cause anyone that ammount of hurt and distress when it comes out, which it will without a doubt.
This site is great (though not as engaging as it used to be), and what makes it good is the level of debate in the cafe as opposed to what now goes on in 'lets meet up', which is 95% 'shag me now you lucky people'.
But i would like to express my wry amusement at the moral high ground occupied by many of the real swingers - lets face it guys and girls you are adopting a lifestyle which is unconventional, viewed as morally questionable by the majority, but still you express strong disapproval of married people who play alone and non-consented.
For whatever reason, many of us like a lot of sex, and we like it with new people, and while excuses such as 'my wife doesn't understand me / doesn't have high sex drive / is too prudish' may often be offered, ultimately its the variety and the chance of a new shag which drives most of the married singles. We take a risk, but try to control it by not having affairs or getting involved, but the swingers also take calculated risks all the time.
For my part, I love group sex and watching others perform, and knowing I'm being watched, but i know absolutely my wife would be horrified and our relationship wouldn't survive if i pressed her on that. But with SH, i get the occasional opportunity to indulge in that.
For those of you whose sexuality and sexual venturesomeness is matched by your partner, that's great. But that doesn't always happen, and there's more than the sexual side to a succesfull longterm relationship.
I have a number of woman friends (not swingers) who say they wouldn't sleep with married men out of respect for the wives, but it turns out that one of them did quite regularly, and it was just an excuse not to shag me personally!
So anyway, i respect those who wont swing with married cheaters, and I dont try to pretend i'm otherwise, but i would ask you not to consider yourself as morally superior.
But i would like to express my wry amusement at the moral high ground occupied by many of the real swingers - lets face it guys and girls you are adopting a lifestyle which is unconventional, viewed as morally questionable by the majority, but still you express strong disapproval of married people who play alone and non-consented.
For whatever reason, many of us like a lot of sex, and we like it with new people, and while excuses such as 'my wife doesn't understand me / doesn't have high sex drive / is too prudish' may often be offered, ultimately its the variety and the chance of a new shag which drives most of the married singles. We take a risk, but try to control it by not having affairs or getting involved, but the swingers also take calculated risks all the time.
For my part, I love group sex and watching others perform, and knowing I'm being watched, but i know absolutely my wife would be horrified and our relationship wouldn't survive if i pressed her on that. But with SH, i get the occasional opportunity to indulge in that.
For those of you whose sexuality and sexual venturesomeness is matched by your partner, that's great. But that doesn't always happen, and there's more than the sexual side to a succesfull longterm relationship.
I have a number of woman friends (not swingers) who say they wouldn't sleep with married men out of respect for the wives, but it turns out that one of them did quite regularly, and it was just an excuse not to shag me personally!
So anyway, i respect those who wont swing with married cheaters, and I dont try to pretend i'm otherwise, but i would ask you not to consider yourself as morally superior.
I wouldn't say that I was taking any moral high ground....
But I don't play with married women without their permission. I ALWAYS speak to the husband and make sure that he is happy.(my profile used to be very specific with words to that effect)
I also like to talk to the husband afterwards and talk about what me and his wife did... cos I know that she will have done... I get further turned on by the voyearistic aspect of the discussion. And the obvious pleasure that he has got.
our lifestyle maybe alternative and in some peoples' opinions morally corrupt etc etc... but it isn't to me and I only play with people who have the same beliefs about sex.
No-one has the right to judge anyone else ever.. and I don't. but I do choose carefully the people that I play with as I respect them and wish for them to respect me. For that to happen comfortably for me I need to know that they are honest with me. If they are not being honest with their partners then I would assume they would struggle with me.
loves
splendid x x x x
But I don't play with married women without their permission. I ALWAYS speak to the husband and make sure that he is happy.(my profile used to be very specific with words to that effect)
I also like to talk to the husband afterwards and talk about what me and his wife did... cos I know that she will have done... I get further turned on by the voyearistic aspect of the discussion. And the obvious pleasure that he has got.
our lifestyle maybe alternative and in some peoples' opinions morally corrupt etc etc... but it isn't to me and I only play with people who have the same beliefs about sex.
No-one has the right to judge anyone else ever.. and I don't. but I do choose carefully the people that I play with as I respect them and wish for them to respect me. For that to happen comfortably for me I need to know that they are honest with me. If they are not being honest with their partners then I would assume they would struggle with me.
loves
splendid x x x x
Sexpert
Quote by Kiss
Or is your rule: I'm not playing with anyone who is married/cheating full stop?
Yup. Relationships or playing, not interested at all.
If married men want to play...fine,if married women want to play....fine
we don't play with single males or females.....so it doesn't effect us only play with couples in stable secure relationships....and before you ask....when we go to clubs we can suss out the couples where it looks like a bit of arm twisting was used to get one of them there.
we don't play with single males or females.....so it doesn't effect us only play with couples in stable secure relationships....and before you ask....when we go to clubs we can suss out the couples where it looks like a bit of arm twisting was used to get one of them there.
Quote by da69ve
If married men want to play...fine,if married women want to play....fine
we don't play with single males or females.....so it doesn't effect us only play with couples in stable secure relationships....and before you ask....when we go to clubs we can suss out the couples where it looks like a bit of arm twisting was used to get one of them there.
I know but the arm twisting only hurts him a bit
Quote by midscplfun
.................... swinging and relationships are different.
I so know Im gonna get jumped on for this post but I think the above quote sums it up.
From talking to a lot of people from both sexes who play alone (with or without partners knowledge) they see swinging as recreational sex which in my book is not cheating, cheating is about intimacy i.e. the transference of thoughts from one special person to a substitute or replacement.
Those who play with so called ‘singles’ I don’t see are the ones who need to salve then consciences as it is the ‘single’ who will have the most to lose by being dishonest, it is up to the individual to reconcile any qualms they may have.
As a couple we do not play with anyone who is married or attached to an unsuspecting partner purely because of our own thoughts on the subject and not because we are in judgement. I will leave this post with the only sentiment I think fitting “Do unto others ………………â€
I really think that you may have taken that comment you quoted above, not how I intended it.
What I was trying to say is that for some people having a relationship with somebody who is married is different to having sex with somebody who is married IMHO and maybe this is why they would swing with a 'cheater' but not commit to them.
I was not talking from the perspective of the 'cheater' who may have various excuses for doing so.
Quote by midscplfun
I really think that you may have taken that comment you quoted above, not how I intended it.
What I was trying to say is that for some people having a relationship with somebody who is married is different to having sex with somebody who is married IMHO and maybe this is why they would swing with a 'cheater' but not commit to them.
Sorry Kiss
I think I probably did but only cos I do view swinging different to a relationship, swinging being escapism or enhancement relationship being poll tax n where are my clean sox
:lol:
Maybe I could have worded it better - story of my life!
Quote by Dawnie
Or is your rule: I'm not playing with anyone who is married/cheating full stop?
For us that is pretty much it. We won't encourage anyone to be unfaithful, male or female.
I know we can't always get it right but for us, swinging is all about consent. Being unfaithful means a person being left at home is not able to give consent
like above
Quote by silentsven
...
i would like to express my wry amusement at the moral high ground occupied by many of the real swingers ...
For my part, I love group sex and watching others perform, and knowing I'm being watched, but i know absolutely my wife would be horrified and our relationship wouldn't survive if i pressed her on that. But with SH, i get the occasional opportunity to indulge in that.
For those of you whose sexuality and sexual venturesomeness is matched by your partner, that's great. But that doesn't always happen, and there's more than the sexual side to a succesfull longterm relationship.
...
So anyway, i respect those who wont swing with married cheaters, and I dont try to pretend i'm otherwise, but i would ask you not to consider yourself as morally superior.
I'm sorry but I have many problems with much of the above. I have a very high sex drive and have never met anyone else that likes sex as often, yet I have stayed faithful to my partner for over nine years and never touched another man or woman untill the day that we both sat down together and said that we'd like to try swinging.
In the year that I was sexually active but single, before I found Steve, I was widely condemned as an immoral tramp for having casual sex in my efforts to satisfy my sexual needs. My internal response was always this: I am a very moral person and more moral than most people. I think that many swingers are!
The thing that makes me moral is this: I will never deliberately hurt another person either through betraying their trust or by considering my selfish happiness in the face of someone else's pain. The thing that makes much of the population immoral is that they get their kicks from hurting those innocent people who go out of their way to be kind to others.
I would never knowingly play with anyone that cheated on their partners.
For much of my married life, I've had a partner that has had to work away from home, but I've always satisfied myself with fantasy and masturbating...never with unfaithfulness! It is infact only now that work allows us to see each other much more that we are occasionally swinging.
Anyone that values their relationship and their partner's happiness should only consider this step if they can be honest and open with their other halves and they are secure in the quality of the time they share with their loved ones!
Holly
I think that it requires a certain amount of selectivity and cunning to debate various aspects of swinging and also to practise one's particular values in amongst other swingers and the conventional world. Under the broader umbrella of life and human relations, swinging is not highly regarded as it presents awkward ideas; which conventional partnerships do not approve of. So swingers are generally regarded as being hypocrites, spoilt etc. Swingers practice the act of adultery by consent. So most conventional people despise swingers for this basic attribute.
If for a moment we consider a different setting for this debate. Let’s say you went to a conventional dating evening and presented this argument. That you have integrity and honesty and don’t have sex with married people, but you are a swinger. Would it be a productive debate? Would you find yourself in an alienated position? Hmmmm.
So I think the argument holds more ‘power and persuasion’ in this theatre, as it would simply be dismissed in the conventional world. I could easily have entered this under the other debates, but its welcoming to see that some people wish to raise questions which are often conveniently and selectively avoided.
But to the main question, do women get a more favourable response when seeking to cheat. More often than not they do. However they often get a considerably more vindictive backlash if it all goes wrong. Are they also looking for a quick leg over, nsa? Probably, but that’s also considered to be more understandable than the same requirement by men.
If for a moment we consider a different setting for this debate. Let’s say you went to a conventional dating evening and presented this argument. That you have integrity and honesty and don’t have sex with married people, but you are a swinger. Would it be a productive debate? Would you find yourself in an alienated position? Hmmmm.
So I think the argument holds more ‘power and persuasion’ in this theatre, as it would simply be dismissed in the conventional world. I could easily have entered this under the other debates, but its welcoming to see that some people wish to raise questions which are often conveniently and selectively avoided.
But to the main question, do women get a more favourable response when seeking to cheat. More often than not they do. However they often get a considerably more vindictive backlash if it all goes wrong. Are they also looking for a quick leg over, nsa? Probably, but that’s also considered to be more understandable than the same requirement by men.
Quote by duncanlondon
I think that it requires a certain amount of selectivity and cunning to debate various aspects of swinging and also to practise one's particular values in amongst other swingers and the conventional world. Under the broader umbrella of life and human relations, swinging is not highly regarded as it presents awkward ideas; which conventional partnerships do not approve of. So swingers are generally regarded as being hypocrites, spoilt etc. Swingers practice the act of adultery by consent. So most conventional people despise swingers for this basic attribute.
If for a moment we consider a different setting for this debate. Let’s say you went to a conventional dating evening and presented this argument. That you have integrity and honesty and don’t have sex with married people, but you are a swinger. Would it be a productive debate? Would you find yourself in an alienated position? Hmmmm.
So I think the argument holds more ‘power and persuasion’ in this theatre, as it would simply be dismissed in the conventional world. I could easily have entered this under the other debates, but its welcoming to see that some people wish to raise questions which are often conveniently and selectively avoided.
But to the main question, do women get a more favourable response when seeking to cheat. More often than not they do. However they often get a considerably more vindictive backlash if it all goes wrong. Are they also looking for a quick leg over, nsa? Probably, but that’s also considered to be more understandable than the same requirement by men.
It's cool to read such an interesting reply :thumbup:
Personally, in the real world, I've found that my ideas gain fair hearing from my non-swinging friends, who are all alternative in their individual ways. I find that if a lively debate/discussion gets too loud, however, (not talking about anything so provocative as swinging) then disapproving glances abound from young and old.
In my younger days, however, as an active member of an enthusiastic debating society, I did get a favourable hearing for any well argued points
Quote by silentsven
can i just lower the tone of this debate....
thats a fantastic pair on disply in yr avatar loveh4s!
I hope you will accept a compliment from someone who would not meet yr requirements to swing with!
I'll accept compliments from anyone and everyone; I'm not just attention seeking you know, I have a desperate need to be loved by as many people as possible!
Holly
x
Quote by loveh4s
...
i would like to express my wry amusement at the moral high ground occupied by many of the real swingers ...
For my part, I love group sex and watching others perform, and knowing I'm being watched, but i know absolutely my wife would be horrified and our relationship wouldn't survive if i pressed her on that. But with SH, i get the occasional opportunity to indulge in that.
For those of you whose sexuality and sexual venturesomeness is matched by your partner, that's great. But that doesn't always happen, and there's more than the sexual side to a succesfull longterm relationship.
...
So anyway, i respect those who wont swing with married cheaters, and I dont try to pretend i'm otherwise, but i would ask you not to consider yourself as morally superior.
I'm sorry but I have many problems with much of the above. I have a very high sex drive and have never met anyone else that likes sex as often, yet I have stayed faithful to my partner for over nine years and never touched another man or woman untill the day that we both sat down together and said that we'd like to try swinging.
In the year that I was sexually active but single, before I found Steve, I was widely condemned as an immoral tramp for having casual sex in my efforts to satisfy my sexual needs. My internal response was always this: I am a very moral person and more moral than most people. I think that many swingers are!
The thing that makes me moral is this: I will never deliberately hurt another person either through betraying their trust or by considering my selfish happiness in the face of someone else's pain. The thing that makes much of the population immoral is that they get their kicks from hurting those innocent people who go out of their way to be kind to others.
I would never knowingly play with anyone that cheated on their partners.
For much of my married life, I've had a partner that has had to work away from home, but I've always satisfied myself with fantasy and masturbating...never with unfaithfulness! It is infact only now that work allows us to see each other much more that we are occasionally swinging.
Anyone that values their relationship and their partner's happiness should only consider this step if they can be honest and open with their other halves and they are secure in the quality of the time they share with their loved ones!
Holly
great answer holly its a shame more people dont think things though like this to many people are prepared to give up easily in order for a quick shag
