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Smacking Children?

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Ok. I know it really is an iffy subject that brings on a lot of emotions, but smacking kids? I thouroughly enjoy good debate and i find that this can be a good platform for seems that as Swingers maybe just sometimes we are able to show less inhibitions in our feelings, So as well as maybe our habits lol
This afternoon whilst drinking coffee and doing the ubiquitous BBQ(smell of BBQ seemed to pervade about 80% of Britain tiday im reckon smile ) the discussion on corporal pumishment of kids came up.
So, I thought hey up put it to the test with a discussion.
The following is Statement from European government:-
"The absence of violence in relations with children cannot be limited to a self-imposed obligation nor to a personal style of child-rearing practised by certain people. The absence of violence should be a norm respected by the whole of society, not only because even today too many children are the victims of acts of violence, but because children and their integrity as persons should be always and everywhere respected... Respect for children and violence against them can never go together. If one of the characteristics of a society which thinks of itself as civilised is the absence of violence, there can be no justification for violence against children".
Belgian Commission on sexual exploitation of children, 1997
So what do you think. I personally disagree with the above statement and think there is a point at which mild, controlled physical punishment can be a useful and effective tool. Maybe i think That the word violence is too strong. dunno
I must stress however i am not advocating such actions nor condoning them. this is just MY opinion. And i believe n the rule of Law and abide by what the state dictates on this policy.
I was rarely smacked as a child. My brother and I didn't dare do anything seriously naughty as the "threat" (I can't think of a better word) was deterent enough.
I honestly don't know if smacking children is a valid way of disciplining children. In some cases, it just makes the child resentful and agressive to others.
I'm no child psychologist, but I don't think it's something that should happen in modern times.....
Our kids are still elligable to get a smacked arse if they misbehave enough....
They rarely are that naughty though...
Perhaps the notion that they will get a smacked arse is enough to keep them behaving well dunno
A very contentious subject, only the brave (or stupid, take your pick) will walk here! lol
I was leathered as a child, I dont think it did me any real harm other than to abhor violence in the upbringing of my own children.
I think a scolding would normally be sufficient as admonishment for wrong doing and as a last resort, removal from parental contact for a short time (anyone seen how the kids are 'punished' in 'tiny tearaways'?)
i think the real problem is the definition of smacking. with my littlun, if he misbaves, he will get a 'smack', but this is literally a a pat which to be honest he wouldnt even feel but to him it is an embaressment & he realises he's done wrong. In no way would i condone violent contact which leaves any marking, which lets face it is some peoples idea of smacking which in reality is nothing short of assault.
I think we've skirted round this before and it sure is a very controversial subject.
Personally I was brought up with damn good smackings, I had the belt and good clips around the head (especially when I returned home with three hickey's on my neck!).. I'm still here and unmarked physically, however, mentally I'll never forget the look in my Dad's face when he was angry and I vowed I'd not chastise my kids the same way.
I've only ever once had to raise my hand twice to my daughter in 15 years. She was 2 1/2 yrs old and bit someone in public. Her smack was a tap on the back of her legs and she was gutted as I'd not done that before. The other was 3 wks ago when we had an almighty row and I got her by the arm and pushed her out of the room, a simple push. Both incidents gutted me to the core.
I don't think physical violence towards children is necessary. My normal way of dealing with my daughter is "the look", she knows she's gone to far when she gets that look. I've brought up a respectful decent young lady without violence so there must be something in that but I can only speak for myself.
I had a friend years ago who used to regularly whack her daughter around the head, I warned her on the last occasion if she continued I'd do it back to her, she stopped doing it in my presence.
I still feel tho on the other side of the coin, that parents should be left with the decision if their children are very naughty and unruly, the odd smack on the bottom may be necessary.
My children are disciplined in such a way that we dont need to smack them.
If they misbehave they get sent to their room, or we take an amount of their pocket money away.
Im in no way an easy touch, I also give "the look".
One look from Joe and they know straight away to stop whatever it is that they are doing wrong.
I was smacked when I was a kid and even though it didnt do me any real harm, I still remember and dont like the thought of it.
People always comment on how well behaved my children are.
Recently I was out shopping, I walked past a store and just as I got to the door, this @two year old girl came flying out head first and landed on the ground. Her mother came waltzing out like nothing had happened, she continued to push and pull the poor girl as she sobbed. I gave this woman "the look", if only it would work on adults too. though I didnt agree with what she had done, I couldnt interfere, or maybe I should have dunno everyone has different ways of disciplining their children, but there is a very fine line between discipline and abuse.
Louise xx
This one is a biggy and i have to sit on the fence in a way.....
I was brought up in a relatively non-smacking home until i hit around 14yrs old. Was i so naughty? No i dont think so, up until that point no one questioned our parents and i was the first !! lol If i cheeked, they did not know what to do and so it generally resorted in violence to make me either shut up or prove that they had the upper hand and would win one way or another rolleyes and i was often told "I made you, i own you and you will do as i say"
I do not condone their behaviour, but i do understand why and how they did it - it was ignorance, fear and certain beliefs.....
I vowed always to talk to my children, i have the "look", they have punishments, boundaries and consequences for their actions - It does seem to work.
I often threaten a smack (which is enough as i still have that option) To take away the option, I dont know if that would be a good thing or is that a parents "safety net"?? But I would prefer the option to be totally taken away, if it stopped what i would class as "violence" - but i think we all know, that it would not take it away......
I can have a temper, but, like most that have experienced some sort of violence, it scares me to be brutally honest. If i find myself even wanting to smack my childs leg, I go away, the slap would be because i had lost my temper and initially it is my loss of self-control and not disciplining my child in a safe and controlled manner - hitting does not teach anything good.
Parenting to me is not about winning or losing, its about mutual respect and treating people as i would like to be treat, including children - they are individual people after all, with the same feelings as us.
purely my opinion but
the use or even threat of violence to someone smaller or physically of less statue is simply BULLYING. It doesn't matter if they are children or adults. You are simply useing your supirior strengh to force your rule of law.
I have a daughter now 13, and have never lifted a finger to her. When she has done wrong..we sit down and we talk about why it is wrong. and we sit there and talk about it, until i feel she fully understands. I have to say that for me it has worked well..she is generally a goog gal anyway...but the best thing is after a discusssion, she has never repeated the mis-demeanor again.
Quote by triker69uk
i think the real problem is the definition of smacking. with my littlun, if he misbaves, he will get a 'smack', but this is literally a a pat which to be honest he wouldnt even feel but to him it is an embaressment & he realises he's done wrong. In no way would i condone violent contact which leaves any marking, which lets face it is some peoples idea of smacking which in reality is nothing short of assault.

Oh you have got this so right :thumbup:
My Dad only ever smacked me once as a child but it was the humiliation of him doing it in front of my brother and sister that made it worse redface He never had to do it again. I did smack mine when they were young but there comes an age where smacking isn't suitable and grounding/taking away pleasures takes over. I've seen some people use such force on young kids that it shocks me.
There is a fine but definate line between discipline ( which a lot of kids these days lack ) and assault ( which unfortunately a lot of kids have to endure ) evil
I have to admit to an occasional and rare smack though I do try to use other methods which I have found to be extremely succesful. For the youngest we use the 'naughty step' this doesnt include any shouting just calm and firm direction and explanation. The eldest children get sent to thier rooms. This they hate whether its the embarrassement or the feeling of missing out, it is very effective and we always have an apology and a damn good chat after to discuss how we all felt.
The biggest problem in my opinion is lack of respect, but we also have to respect our children. I do not agree with violence or abuse obviously but should we really be told how to discipline our children or just advised.
Mrs G x
I used to smack my kids but it got to a stage where I knew it wasn't about their perceived misbehaviour it was about my anger. I hated myself afterwards and knew that I hadn't gained anything in doing it. Bit of reading soul searching and general thoughtmeant that I changed.
I now make use of the naughty step/time out area which gives me a chance to calm down enough to be able to discuss rationally with the kids why what they were doing was wrong. I need that time to calm my temper down as much as they need time to think about why they've been sent to cool off too. It's rare that the time out zone gets used these days and when it does get used it's generally for hitting each other. I know I'm not going to stop the kids from hitting each other by hitting them for it.
However I'm not going to say that you should never smack your child. I would smack any toddler on the back of the hand who was trying to push a fork into an electrical socket.
Quote by celestria
I used to smack my kids but it got to a stage where I knew it wasn't about their perceived misbehaviour it was about my anger. I hated myself afterwards and knew that I hadn't gained anything in doing it. Bit of reading soul searching and general thoughtmeant that I changed.

Succinctly put and I totally agree. Once anger gets involved then irrationality sets in and then it's a totally different ball game.
Mrs G (Grifrock) States:-
The biggest problem in my opinion is lack of respect, but we also have to respect our children. I do not agree with violence or abuse obviously but should we really be told how to discipline our children or just advised.

Advised and not told is to me a good place to be. Having society allow us to have children on our own terms for the vast majority. Although there is a lot going on with some, that is undoubtadly wrong with the bringing up of children. I think that it is important to be allowed as adults to make informed choices.
post and be damned.....
I see no difference between hitting a child (even if I have given birth to it) Or hitting another child in the street or another adult if I think that they have done wrong.
As an adult I would get prosecuted for hitting another person. Why is it different because I am their parent ?
As for advising on how to raise children as opposed to telling. We are told in law not to hit other people.. again, why is it so different when we are raising a child ?
splendid
Quote by splendid_
post and be damned.....
I see no difference between hitting a child (even if I have given birth to it) Or hitting another child in the street or another adult if I think that they have done wrong.
As an adult I would get prosecuted for hitting another person. Why is it different because I am their parent ?
As for advising on how to raise children as opposed to telling. We are told in law not to hit other people.. again, why is it so different when we are raising a child ?
splendid

The difference would possibly be that by adulthood that person should know right from wrong therefore wouldn't need chastising. I presume the whole thing on chastising/smacking a child is to let them know they are doing wrong as shouting wouldn't work at young ages (I would think).
I'm not saying it's right because it's not.
The whole thing about disciplining children is to teach them right and wrong. Some Nanny programmes talk about the naughty chair, which can be good, except I saw one programme where the child picked up the naughty chair and threw it at Mum.. :shock: where do parents draw the line?
There's no handbook on being a parent, we just have to do what's right for our own children I guess.
Quote by jaymar
The whole thing about disciplining children is to teach them right and wrong. Some Nanny programmes talk about the naughty chair, which can be good, except I saw one programme where the child picked up the naughty chair and threw it at Mum.. :shock: where do parents draw the line?

Excuse me for just nicking this bit of your post Jaymar.
I have in the past had a child who would have temper tantrums like this. (think the child has it's mothers temper at times) I soon learnt not to argue with the child which starts up a very destructive cycle. I just put them somewhere where they couldn't hurt themselves or break anything until the temper had run its course and we'd both calmed down. Then we were both in a state to discuss and deal with what had made them so angry in the first place.
Parenting isn't easy, it takes a lot of patience to try and keep calm (for me anyway) but I have to say the relationship I have with my children now is much calmer and more relaxed and our household is less "shouty" than it used to be.
Quote by celestria

The whole thing about disciplining children is to teach them right and wrong. Some Nanny programmes talk about the naughty chair, which can be good, except I saw one programme where the child picked up the naughty chair and threw it at Mum.. :shock: where do parents draw the line?

Excuse me for just nicking this bit of your post Jaymar.
I have in the past had a child who would have temper tantrums like this. (think the child has it's mothers temper at times) I soon learnt not to argue with the child which starts up a very destructive cycle. I just put them somewhere where they couldn't hurt themselves or break anything until the temper had run its course and we'd both calmed down. Then we were both in a state to discuss and deal with what had made them so angry in the first place.
Parenting isn't easy, it takes a lot of patience to try and keep calm (for me anyway) but I have to say the relationship I have with my children now is much calmer and more relaxed and our household is less "shouty" than it used to be.
I don't mind at all hun. Apparently children are often after attention when they behave like that so if they don't receive that attention or the behaviour is ignored they will calm down (well some will lol )
You sound very wise in your approach. xx
Quote by jaymar

The whole thing about disciplining children is to teach them right and wrong. Some Nanny programmes talk about the naughty chair, which can be good, except I saw one programme where the child picked up the naughty chair and threw it at Mum.. :shock: where do parents draw the line?

Excuse me for just nicking this bit of your post Jaymar.
I have in the past had a child who would have temper tantrums like this. (think the child has it's mothers temper at times) I soon learnt not to argue with the child which starts up a very destructive cycle. I just put them somewhere where they couldn't hurt themselves or break anything until the temper had run its course and we'd both calmed down. Then we were both in a state to discuss and deal with what had made them so angry in the first place.
Parenting isn't easy, it takes a lot of patience to try and keep calm (for me anyway) but I have to say the relationship I have with my children now is much calmer and more relaxed and our household is less "shouty" than it used to be.
I don't mind at all hun. Apparently children are often after attention when they behave like that so if they don't receive that attention or the behaviour is ignored they will calm down (well some will lol )
You sound very wise in your approach. xx
ATTENTION SEEKING is the key point, most children do it because it gets mum/dad/carer to look at them and play with them. Just a simple smile and a look only goes so far, when they throw food on the floor you go back and talk to the child.
This becomes a game until the adult looses the temper and shouts. Child learns eventually the more extreme it is them more (supposedly ) attention it gets.
It becomes a cycle that has to be broken, corporal punishment used to be seen as the way, then the liberal idiots got involved and said this was not a good idea. Instead of teaching parents the best way they let them get on with it, added to the fact we have now one of the highest sugar/fats diets in the worlds its a recipe for disaster.
Tempers fray, bottoms get smack and most sensible parents then feel very guilty, about what they have done. I should know I done it once and once only, I only have to look at my son now and he behaves, but I will say this I think I was more scared/frightened by what happened.
Funny my father only did it once to meand it taught me, but I will never do it again.
Feel free to pick this apart as you see fit.
Quote by celestria
However I'm not going to say that you should never smack your child. I would smack any toddler on the back of the hand who was trying to push a fork into an electrical socket.

I really agree with you. My kids are really small and I used to smack them quite a bit when they did such dangerous things. I don't have to smack them now, haven't done for ages. My daughter hates it when I give her "the look" but as she's getting older it works soooooo well biggrin I don't like smacking as such but when it comes to such dangerous situations as crossing roads without holding mummy or daddy's hand or being daft with electricity, I would rather the shock of a swift slap than the shock of plugging themselves into the national grid.
when i was a kid, my parents used to smack us, particularly my brother and i absolutely hated hearing the sound of it. It used to really upset me and id pull my dad off of him.
When i had my own children and at one point had three under 5, the temptation to smack was there and sometimes i did slap them across the legs or bum but never a real good hiding. One occasion springs to my mind, my daughter who was about three at the time and a real little devil had played me up all day, and on the walk home i smacked the back of her legs. This old, weird woman who used to push her dog around in a pushchair and was known in the town as being very strange, came up to me and said "you arent supposed to do that, its illegal". I was absolutely fuming and stormed home, i felt like id been pushed to my limits by my daughter and how could that woman judge me so harshly??
As my kids have grown up and ive matured and yes, mellowed out, i only need to raise my voice a bit and glare at them and they know... oh yes, they know!!
I hate hearing kids upset in shops and its horrible hearing parents shout at them, but sometimes we forget how bloody hard it is to be a parent of toddlers!!
Suze xx
Never before has there been so many reports of the disrespect, disregard and even violence shown by young people to both the police, to teachers in schools and adults generally in their communities... why? Because the kids know there is feck all that can be done to them.
Forget smacking, any adult over the age of 25 should have the right by law to kick the crap out of misbehaving adolescents who step out of line. No, forget stepping out of line, any little shites that so much as look like they are thinking about doing something annoying should be set upon and severely beaten with whatever implement is close to hand.
The rights of adults in relation to educating young people as to how to behave in society should be as follows (slightly amended Rory Breaker quote):
“If you climb over my back fence, I'll kill ya. If you throw bottles in my front garden or I think you’re gonna throw bottles in my front garden, I'll kill ya. If you do anything I don’t want you to, I'll kill ya. In fact, you're gonna have to work very hard to stay alive. Now do you understand everything I've said? Because if you don't, I'll kill ya.”
Quote by PoloLady
Never before has there been so many reports of the disrespect, disregard and even violence shown by young people to both the police, to teachers in schools and adults generally in their communities... why? Because the kids know there is feck all that can be done to them.
Forget smacking, any adult over the age of 25 should have the right by law to kick the crap out of misbehaving adolescents who step out of line. No, forget stepping out of line, any little shites that so much as look like they are thinking about doing something annoying should be set upon and severely beaten with whatever implement is close to hand.
The rights of adults in relation to educating young people as to how to behave in society should be as follows (slightly amended Rory Breaker quote):
“If you climb over my back fence, I'll kill ya. If you throw bottles in my front garden or I think you’re gonna throw bottles in my front garden, I'll kill ya. If you do anything I don’t want you to, I'll kill ya. In fact, you're gonna have to work very hard to stay alive. Now do you understand everything I've said? Because if you don't, I'll kill ya.”

I want your babies :inlove:
Quote by Sassy-Seren
Never before has there been so many reports of the disrespect, disregard and even violence shown by young people to both the police, to teachers in schools and adults generally in their communities... why? Because the kids know there is feck all that can be done to them.
Forget smacking, any adult over the age of 25 should have the right by law to kick the crap out of misbehaving adolescents who step out of line. No, forget stepping out of line, any little shites that so much as look like they are thinking about doing something annoying should be set upon and severely beaten with whatever implement is close to hand.
The rights of adults in relation to educating young people as to how to behave in society should be as follows (slightly amended Rory Breaker quote):
“If you climb over my back fence, I'll kill ya. If you throw bottles in my front garden or I think you’re gonna throw bottles in my front garden, I'll kill ya. If you do anything I don’t want you to, I'll kill ya. In fact, you're gonna have to work very hard to stay alive. Now do you understand everything I've said? Because if you don't, I'll kill ya.”

I want your babies :inlove:
Ah, but how will they be punished? lol
Just curious, there seems to be a pattern forming. Do you think you're more likely to smack your own sprogs if you were smacked but less likely if you were beaten yourself as a child?
Quote by PoloLady
Never before has there been so many reports of the disrespect, disregard and even violence shown by young people to both the police, to teachers in schools and adults generally in their communities... why? Because the kids know there is feck all that can be done to them.
Forget smacking, any adult over the age of 25 should have the right by law to kick the crap out of misbehaving adolescents who step out of line. No, forget stepping out of line, any little shites that so much as look like they are thinking about doing something annoying should be set upon and severely beaten with whatever implement is close to hand.
The rights of adults in relation to educating young people as to how to behave in society should be as follows (slightly amended Rory Breaker quote):
“If you climb over my back fence, I'll kill ya. If you throw bottles in my front garden or I think you’re gonna throw bottles in my front garden, I'll kill ya. If you do anything I don’t want you to, I'll kill ya. In fact, you're gonna have to work very hard to stay alive. Now do you understand everything I've said? Because if you don't, I'll kill ya.”

you can come and discipline my eldest anytime...we've still got the youngest is check but i'm sure that will all change when he turns into a teen!
being smacked when i was a child did me no harm, in fact i think that this is what is wrong with todays children, they know they can get away with it so they dont care. and just do what they want
I was smacked as a child. Up until I was about the age of 11/12 maybe.
I always knew when I was about to over step the mark, as they always warned me - sort of 'the next time I have to tell you, it'll be a smack across the legs'
If I carried on doing whatever, they would smack me.
I think a lot of the problem now isnt from smacking or lack of. Its from parents not following through. For example at work a few days ago.
Parent: If you dont stop that now you'll not get a mcdonalds
Child carries on
Parent: I'll count to 3 and if you havent stopped, they'll be trouble.
Child carries on
Parent: 1
Parent: 2
Parent: 2 and a quarter
Parent: 2 and a half
Parent: 2 and 3quarters
I mean whats the point? By this time the child has managed to scare the crap out of the pets in my store, caught 5 fish in their sweety bag, and in general run riot.
And they still go to mcdonalds on the way home!!!
Parent head:
I have slapped backs of hands for going near electrical sockets etc. Refused to have a fireguard - they soon learned not to go near the fire. I have probably smacked mine two or three times each (they are 15 and 16 years old now) - I have no objection to smacking and think that on occasion they have deserved that smack. BUT 'the look' has been enough for the vast majority of the time. Anyone who's met my children will tell you that they are polite, gregarious and well-balanced individuals.
Teacher head:
As Pololady said, the kids in school know exactly what we are allowed/not allowed to do and some of them will push that to the absolute limit. I have been pushed, kicked, bitten, punched, sworn at and called all manner of names. I had to go to hospital as a result of being pushed by one very stroppy 10-year old.
Now, if my children had done that, I would be horrified. The parents of the children I have been on the receiving end of, are completely indifferent. As long as the kids aren't under their feet, they don't care what they do. I have one child in my class whose mother has sued a school before now for alleged abuse of her child. Turned out to be completely unfounded but it ruined a teacher's career - there are always those who say 'no smoke without fire'. In today's 'making a claim' society, we have to be very careful. I wouldn't dream of touching any child in school, but you can't even hug them nowadays if they're upset, never mind hit them.
Some of the kids in school run their parents absolutely ragged - they need to be disciplined - and we have to take the flak when we try to discipline without violence.
Where possible I will try to educate my children into behaving by other means, the "look" (which also works well on Morbius lol), restricting tv/pc priveledges, serving timed punishments (whichever chore they hate the most :lolsmile and smacking is only ever a last resort, but I will smack!
I was rarely smacked and I don't believe in smacking kids for the hell of it. I won't smack the children if I've personally lost control of the situation, I'm adult enough to know that if I lose it then I'm likely to misjudge the situation. And I know it sounds like a cop out but I'm very weak in my left hand/arm so will only smack with that hand as there will never be any "force" there.
I will defend my kids now and say that generally they are lovely, well adjusted, well behaved children. They are confident and secure.
Smacking will only ever be the very last option, but I agree with others sometimes it can be an appropriate deterrent. Kids that know they can't be touched are often unruly and troublesome.
Cx
I think all children NEED clearly defined boundaries; they need to know that beyond a certain point their actions have serious and possibly painful consequences.
I was smacked as a child, but not often, the look was usually enough, however I knew with certainty that if I crossed the boundary the rules changed and I could be smacked.
There is a world of difference between smacking and beating though.
beating is too good for some of them!
I Believe that the discipline of children, should be for the parents to decide and implement. I also believe that much of today's problems stem from poor parenting.