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Tax Increase on 4X4's Now spireling in to the caravan debate

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Quote by earthchild
i was listening to the radio and they are having to put longer trains on the busiest commuter routes, but arent going to do this for another 7 yrs or summit.

'they' in this instance being the private/shareholder owned companies which the former government sold the transport networks off to (which will not make substantial investments without being sure they will get the return on it - after all, they do have a legal obligation to act in the best interest of their shareholders)
I've only got a little 1.4 A Class Mercedes....myself and four of my mates fitted into quite comfortably(and they are big guys)...didn't need a large people carrier there!...but i have seen plenty of people with massive cars....carrying just one child, probably the one or so miles to school...i have no sympathy if the tax for these cars go up...especially if you live in a built up area like London....but if you can prove your 4 x 4 is a nessesary,the government should allow provisions for this...
Quote by PoloLady
If you live in an urban area – fuck it, double it again and make it compulsory to wear a hat with “twat” or similar wording written on the front (especially when it is being used for the half mile school run and the trip to the local supermarket).

Very profound.....
Pretty much what I had expected rolleyes
Quote by Mr-Powers
but if you can prove your 4 x 4 is a nessesary,the government should allow provisions for this...

A reasoned argument at last..
The thing is also that it won't make a blind bit of difference to some!
As I mentioned in my comments earlier Bedford has quite a few private schools, I know somebody who works at one of them and most of the 6th form boys have cars that they have to register.
Quite a few of them have brand new Range Rovers! If daddy can afford £60,000 to buy his son a car I don't think doubling the road tax will make any difference to him.
Quote by Miss_Kiss
Quite a few of them have brand new Range Rovers! If daddy can afford £60,000 to buy his son a car I don't think doubling the road tax will make any difference to him.

Exactly :thumbup:
Quote by Mallock2006

If you live in an urban area – fuck it, double it again and make it compulsory to wear a hat with “twat” or similar wording written on the front (especially when it is being used for the half mile school run and the trip to the local supermarket).

Very profound.....
Pretty much what I had expected :roll

And your reply is what exactly?
Quote by PoloLady

If you live in an urban area – fuck it, double it again and make it compulsory to wear a hat with “twat” or similar wording written on the front (especially when it is being used for the half mile school run and the trip to the local supermarket).

Very profound.....
Pretty much what I had expected rolleyes

And your reply is what exactly?
My reply to what dunno
Quote by Mallock2006

but if you can prove your 4 x 4 is a nessesary,the government should allow provisions for this...

A reasoned argument at last..
Yes well done Mr Powers for agreeing with a point I had typed a few minutes before... yet seems to have been overlooked in quote for the chance of a cheap shot - ah well.... some people rolleyes
Quote by PoloLady


but if you can prove your 4 x 4 is a nessesary,the government should allow provisions for this...

A reasoned argument at last..
Yes well done Mr Powers for agreeing with a point I had typed a few minutes before... yet seems to have been overlooked in quote for the chance of a cheap shot - ah well.... some people rolleyes
Cheap shots are the only ones I can afford nowadays due to the way I am being taxed out of existance...
Not being privvy to a fantastic job that affords me PRP and the like :roll:
You mentioned people who lived in rural areas and those using unserviced roads as requiring 4x4's and them went on to say those living in urban areas using them for the school run should wear a hat with twat written on it....
Quote by PoloLady
If you live in the middle of nowhere and to go anywhere you have to travel along roads which are barely roads, then it really is a necessity and you should not be penalised with higher tax.
If you live in a rural area close to towns or cities with serviced roads – yes you should pay more.
If you live in an urban area – fuck it, double it again and make it compulsory to wear a hat with “twat” or similar wording written on the front (especially when it is being used for the half mile school run and the trip to the local supermarket).

You make no mention of anyone owning one for any other reason so therefore I take it you mean people like me...
I use mine to do a job and not being able to afford 3 cars I also have to use it to commute and take the kids to school....
Aren't you having a cheap shot at 4x4 owners or large families with big cars? thats how i read it? i don't own a 4x4 or a large car but i do own one so i can't really criticise anyones choice because of a few ml of co2 difference, all cars are bad and because mine is slightly better doesn't make it ok, Im assuming you don't drive or own a car and if correct i do see your point, but on the same token you probably jump on a plane twice a year or more to go on holiday which is the equivelent of driving a 4x4 for 10 years per passenger :shock:
Quote by Mallock2006
You make no mention of anyone owning one for any other reason so therefore I take it you mean people like me...
I use mine to do a job and not being able to afford 3 cars I also have to use it to commute and take the kids to school....

That is because I cannot at this time think of another reason people would 'need' to have one for personal use.
Quote by PoloLady

You make no mention of anyone owning one for any other reason so therefore I take it you mean people like me...
I use mine to do a job and not being able to afford 3 cars I also have to use it to commute and take the kids to school....

That is because I cannot at this time think of another reason people would 'need' to have one for personal use.
Then perhaps a read of all of this thread will enlighten you dunno
My reasons are clearly stated throughout this thread..
In Edit
Some of my posts will be as Steve_Mids smile
Quote by Fun Scottish Couple
Im assuming you don't drive or own a car and if correct i do see your point, but on the same token you probably jump on a plane twice a year or more to go on holiday which is the equivelent of driving a 4x4 for 10 years per passenger :shock:

Keep assuming.
I went on a plane once in 1995 (I think) - though I did fly a helicopter last year lol
Get a recovery truck - its only £165 'Road Fund Licence' per year - I can tow anything I like.
Oh, and for a one-off £10 fee I can go into chairman Kens London rip-off zone as many times as I like, all year, and not pay another penny.
Look at it this way Mallock, it'll soon be cheaper for you to hire a tow truck to take your caravan on holiday than it will be to tax and fuel up your 4x4 wink lol biggrin :D :D
Quote by Jon

Look at it this way Mallock, it'll soon be cheaper for you to hire a tow truck to take your caravan on holiday than it will be to tax and fuel up your 4x4 wink lol biggrin :D :D

Well seeing as my car tax will only increase by £5 a year for the next 3 years and I can do 30+mpg I doubt that..

The problem I have with the argument is that all cars use the same roads......... I thought the car tax was originally introduced to fund the maintenance of the road systems?
Does a 4 x 4 use more of the road or cause the need for more maintenance?
IMHO ........ its all rubbish ...... just another excuse to grab more revenue! ........ and NO i dont drive a 4 x 4.
Sam xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Quote by PoloLady
Im assuming you don't drive or own a car and if correct i do see your point, but on the same token you probably jump on a plane twice a year or more to go on holiday which is the equivelent of driving a 4x4 for 10 years per passenger :shock:

Keep assuming.
I went on a plane once in 1995 (I think) - though I did fly a helicopter last year lol
That was a probabilty not a definate, my assumption was that you don't own a car because if you do i fail to see your point, thats just like saying smoking 2 cigarettes in a club is ok but smoking 3 isn't.
Quote by Mallock2006

That is because I cannot at this time think of another reason people would 'need' to have one for personal use.

Then perhaps a read of all of this thread will enlighten you dunno

I did - it hasn't.
Though how about a £1 per day reduction for the total number of days a 4x4 is actually 'needed' for towing (where a standard car would not be up to the job)...
How much would you get back?
Quote by PoloLady

That is because I cannot at this time think of another reason people would 'need' to have one for personal use.

Then perhaps a read of all of this thread will enlighten you dunno

I did - it hasn't.
Though how about a £1 per day reduction for the total number of days a 4x4 is actually 'needed' for towing (where a standard car would not be up to the job)...
How much would you get back?
So all the time I use my 4x4 to tow my caravan is fine...
I use the 4x4 as it is way safer than a saloon car and my familys safety is more important than some hole in someones layer somewhere.
So should I buy a 3rd car to use for commuting/delivering kids to school etc etc :dunno:
Thats better isnt it.....
3 cars instead of 2.......
Quote by Mallock2006
I use the 4x4 as it is way safer than a saloon car and my familys safety is more important than some hole in someones layer somewhere.

Not if you are a pedestrian, cyclist or small car on the recieving end of some bull bars.
Quote by Miss_Kiss
I use the 4x4 as it is way safer than a saloon car and my familys safety is more important than some hole in someones layer somewhere.

Not if you are a pedestrian, cyclist or small car on the recieving end of some bull bars.
I dont have bull bars...
As I said...............Its there to do a job not for vanity
Quote by Fun Scottish Couple
Im assuming you don't drive or own a car and if correct i do see your point, but on the same token you probably jump on a plane twice a year or more to go on holiday which is the equivelent of driving a 4x4 for 10 years per passenger :shock:

Keep assuming.
I went on a plane once in 1995 (I think) - though I did fly a helicopter last year lol
That was a probabilty not a definate, my assumption was that you don't own a car because if you do i fail to see your point, thats just like saying smoking 2 cigarettes in a club is ok but smoking 3 isn't.
Actually the smoking analogy doesn't work.
But in terms of the cars - I don't drive the biggest car I could. I do take emissions into account when choosing a new car as I do drive a company car and I am taxed on the emissions. I don't even pay for petrol - yet I chose an efficient car for it’s class. My motives for doing so are not an environmental crusade, just the simple facts of tax v’s my choices.
If I chose a bigger company car and got taxed more for it - I would not winge my arse off about it as it would have been my choice to do it.
There are very few 4x4 drivers who 'need' to be driving a 4x4 (a significant number of which can't park the fucking things either!) If they make that choice based on 'want' rather than 'need', then I have no problems whatsoever with them being taxed to high heaven for that choice.
Quote by PoloLady
If they make that choice based on 'want' rather than 'need', then I have no problems whatsoever with them being taxed to high heaven for that choice.

Neither do I...
I weighed up all the alternatives before I bought mine..
I had been towing with a good size family car previously and to be honest at times it was downright scary...
Anyone who has had their trailer/caravan pushing them when trying to slow down or even trying to lift the rear of the vehicle will concur...
If people want to own one as a lifestyle statement then tax the arse off em...
I often look at the 4x4's I see on todays roads to see just how many even have a tow bar fitted.......Its not many...
Quote by Mallock2006
I use the 4x4 as it is way safer than a saloon car and my familys safety is more important than some hole in someones layer somewhere

However, it appears that towing the caravan was more important to you than the safety, before you got the 4x4 that is confused
Quote by Mallock2006
I had been towing with a good size family car previously and to be honest at times it was downright scary...
Anyone who has had their trailer/caravan pushing them when trying to slow down or even trying to lift the rear of the vehicle will concur...

Quote by Mallock2006
If people want to own one as a lifestyle statement then tax the arse off em...
I often look at the 4x4's I see on todays roads to see just how many even have a tow bar fitted.......Its not many...

It is your choice to tow a caravan and that is the tax linked to your choice to tow one with a 4x4.
However, you do make a very good point about the 4x4's which don't even have a tow bar. I would suggest taxing them even more - but they would only have one fitted (though I am not sure Mrs Harvey-Farquar-Smythe would want the neighbours to think she had a caravan)
i now realistically have to look at getting one, as i dont have use of the car as ex has taken it my choice is either buy a second car, or get a dual purpose one and 4 x 4 's have the load capacity i need and as i some times go on building sites and this might well increase it seems a sensible option.
so again im being taxed for something i need as a ligtiment business use, and home.
i happy to listen if someone has a more practical solution.
Quote by Ukwineman
i now realistically have to look at getting one, as i dont have use of the car as ex has taken it my choice is either buy a second car, or get a dual purpose one and 4 x 4 's have the load capacity i need and as i some times go on building sites and this might well increase it seems a sensible option.
so again im being taxed for something i need as a ligtiment business use, and home.
i happy to listen if someone has a more practical solution.

What you need to do is buy a really small car and make dozens of journeys and then you wont be berated for choosing to holiday in this country and having something which means all members of the family can enjoy a hobby at weekends........Seeing how one wage earner works days and one works nights weekends are important.....
Thats what you need to do.....
Quote by Scandal
Towing a caravan is a lifestyle statement.

Its also a means of the whole family enjoying a hobby together at weekends and holidaying in this country but I woulkdnt expect some people to understand that rolleyes
Quote by PoloLady
However, it appears that towing the caravan was more important to you than the safety, before you got the 4x4 that is confused

The saloon car I had was perfectly safe as a stand alone vehicle but when what your towing is as heavy as what your towing it with it becomes a hazard :?
We have a diesel 4x4. it is converted to LPG and only has to use a tiny amount of diesel.
The exhaust is cleaner than a brand new small car. !
we use it for towing and when it snows, but it only does about 4000 miles a year.
Now MOTs are done on computer it surely would be fairer if when we taxed it they got it on the computer where they would see the miles done and the engines pollution level and tax you accordingly ?
love Jay
Quote by PoloLady

That is because I cannot at this time think of another reason people would 'need' to have one for personal use.

Then perhaps a read of all of this thread will enlighten you dunno

I did - it hasn't.
Though how about a £1 per day reduction for the total number of days a 4x4 is actually 'needed' for towing (where a standard car would not be up to the job)...
How much would you get back? So how much cn i claim back???????? we do 10000 miles a year half off road and of the 5000 on the road 2500 is towing 3.5 tonnes. We need the vehicle for business so hey i'm going to pass it on to you the consumer!! thanks everyone!!! :P
Quote by freshforu2

That is because I cannot at this time think of another reason people would 'need' to have one for personal use.

Then perhaps a read of all of this thread will enlighten you dunno

I did - it hasn't.
Though how about a £1 per day reduction for the total number of days a 4x4 is actually 'needed' for towing (where a standard car would not be up to the job)...
How much would you get back? So how much cn i claim back???????? we do 10000 miles a year half off road and of the 5000 on the road 2500 is towing 3.5 tonnes. We need the vehicle for business so hey i'm going to pass it on to you the consumer!! thanks everyone!!! :P
It matters not how much you claim back really as some biggot somewhere will see a way to claw it from you rolleyes