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The sanctity of marriage
Tigris
You put points across that are valid - because they are what you believe in. The last thing a swinging couple (or single) would do is say you're wrong because of what you believe.
Swinging, yes does have a lot of 'me' factors - but then so does almost everything that people do in their spare time. They do it for either satisfaction, enjoyment etc - swinging is no different.
You cannot swing for any other reason other than 'me', you cannot do it for anyone else. Take a look back over hundreds of threads where guys come on here asking for advice on how to get their wife into swinging....... Every single bit of advice is don't do it and you can't do it. It's not what swinging is about. It does not make a weak marriage stronger - you have to be an incredibly open and strong couple to explore it.
It's about people who love sex with other people that love it. And in a couples case, its about exploring fantasies with each other, because the same thing turns each other on. They don't explore the things that only turn one on and not the other, it's a joint exploration.
It's all about consent, everyone does it because 'they' want to. It isn't a selfish attitude at all. Selfish would be to try to persuade someone to do it when they weren't into it just because you wanted to.
In my other post back there I took off the bold 'forsaking all others' bit and highlighted the 'be true to him/her' bit directly after it. That's what couples are about. They are in love, they don't share that love with anyone else apart from each other. They just share the odd fantasy now and again.
As I said at the beginning, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Your beliefs are no more or no less valid than ours. So long as they are legal and not hurting anyone, then live and let live 8-)
You put points across that are valid - because they are what you believe in. The last thing a swinging couple (or single) would do is say you're wrong because of what you believe.
Swinging, yes does have a lot of 'me' factors - but then so does almost everything that people do in their spare time. They do it for either satisfaction, enjoyment etc - swinging is no different.
You cannot swing for any other reason other than 'me', you cannot do it for anyone else. Take a look back over hundreds of threads where guys come on here asking for advice on how to get their wife into swinging....... Every single bit of advice is don't do it and you can't do it. It's not what swinging is about. It does not make a weak marriage stronger - you have to be an incredibly open and strong couple to explore it.
It's about people who love sex with other people that love it. And in a couples case, its about exploring fantasies with each other, because the same thing turns each other on. They don't explore the things that only turn one on and not the other, it's a joint exploration.
It's all about consent, everyone does it because 'they' want to. It isn't a selfish attitude at all. Selfish would be to try to persuade someone to do it when they weren't into it just because you wanted to.
In my other post back there I took off the bold 'forsaking all others' bit and highlighted the 'be true to him/her' bit directly after it. That's what couples are about. They are in love, they don't share that love with anyone else apart from each other. They just share the odd fantasy now and again.
As I said at the beginning, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Your beliefs are no more or no less valid than ours. So long as they are legal and not hurting anyone, then live and let live 8-)
Sex God
"what satisfes me what gives me pleasure I don't care what anybody else thinks I am going to enjoy myself and so what if I sleep around I sleep around with like minded people as far as we are all consenting so what"
have you considered that some couples don't actually think quite so much along the lines of what do i want? me me me! but possibly it's a mutual thing, done after a great deal of thought and discussion, and might just be about what do we want? and why is their openness to each others pleasure in a different kind of sexual experience something that is immoral? cos you believe it to be? well sorry but not everyone in this world shares a single moral code? and thank god for that!
possibly they are in loving relationships, and take pleasure in each others pleasure, being quite able to distinguish SEX from LOVE! very different things aren't they? surely there can be no discussion on that score, cos we all know shagging and love can be completely seperate things, and the one does not necessarily go with the other?
what if swinging strengthened that relationship, and even made the couple more aware of the distinction between love and sex, so that the loving aspect of their relationship was brought into sharp relief, as opposed to the sex on tap attitude that sometimes, sadly, provides a basis for relationships?
just my personal take on it as a single bloke.
neil x x x x ;)
Sex God
We just felt it would be a real shame for the rest of the world to miss out on my fantastic body!!!! Share and share alike..... who said I never gave anything?!?!? 
Quote by tigrisIt would seem that according to these statistics there is a 41% chance of marriages ending in divorce with 29% of these divorces being because of adultery. Why single swingers out as a group that do not "forsake all others"? It would seem that many people in the UK do see it as just words. However, since swingers "forsake all others" together their only problem should be with God. (Are you Her special representative tigris?)
As I stated in the chatroom and in my earlier post, I am simply trying trying to understand the swinging morality when it comes to marriage "forsaking all others" seems to be treated as just some words.
Quote by tigrisYou seem particularly uninformed about how swinging actually works. In actual fact there is far more "you, you, you" than "me, me, me" within the scene. Surely partners in a marriage allowing each other to do what they enjoy is totally unselfish? (And also noone else's business.)
it still leaves the purpose that swinging is all about me me me,
Quote by tigrisIt rather depends on the morality of which age you are talking about. You appear to be talking about the morality of the middle classes in the Victorian era - possibly the most sexually repressed group of people in history. The morality of the vast majority of people in the UK today is far more sexually liberated than that. Swingers are a minority group in society, not because they have sex outside marriage vows, but because they do it together and without deceit.
I am not here as a christian, I am simply trying to understand how swingers justify swinging with the morality of the age, they might claim that swingers are much more enlightened than the majority,
Quote by tigrisThe answer to these questions would sem to be:
So the crux of your argument is I have a narrow minded outlook on life for not falling in love with the swinging lifestyle?
* Yes. You do have a narrow-minded outlook on life.
* No. Noone expects you to fall in love with the swinging lifestyle.
Your argument is based on morality - morals are like a menu - you pick what suits you -
Is it immoral? –
To feel pangs of jealousy
Envy someones success
Wish you could have what they have
Tell a lie
Talk about somebody behind their back
Over indulge
Pre judge people
Not apologise and put right a wrong doing
Bet you have done all of these! – are these worse than consentual swinging?
Is it immoral to? -
Be gay
Have a sex change
Fancy someone elses partner
Masturbate
Bet you qualify in one or some of these! – are you any better or worse than a consentual swinger?
Is it immoral to -
To eat pork
Face Mecca when going to the toilet
Drink alcohol
Drink tea coffee
Eat meat
These are some peoples beliefs – they might not be yours so are they valid?
Is it immoral? –
To feel pangs of jealousy
Envy someones success
Wish you could have what they have
Tell a lie
Talk about somebody behind their back
Over indulge
Pre judge people
Not apologise and put right a wrong doing
Bet you have done all of these! – are these worse than consentual swinging?
Is it immoral to? -
Be gay
Have a sex change
Fancy someone elses partner
Masturbate
Bet you qualify in one or some of these! – are you any better or worse than a consentual swinger?
Is it immoral to -
To eat pork
Face Mecca when going to the toilet
Drink alcohol
Drink tea coffee
Eat meat
These are some peoples beliefs – they might not be yours so are they valid?
This is a very interesting thread indeed. To hear you discuss so eloquently Tigris a topic which you obviously find in some way morally wrong, morally unacceptable, or at the very least interesting.
What are morals? Who sets morals?
Who are you, to tell me, that i might be morally wrong.
My morality, is my business, not yours.
Read the bible if you like, and spout forth as many questions on morality and society and selfishness (your word, not mine) as you like. If you like, i'll even discuss the bible back to you and spout forth the opposite to what you have just said. Its all about perspectives.
I am me. I am a selfless person who in no way either condems or accepts anything without knowing of it myself. You, you appear to have belief, which in itself is great, as only through having a belief in something, can you then question yourself with regards as to how real/educated/valid, that belief is. When you do this, then you can call yourself an openminded individual. Until you question yourself, your mind is as closed as the next person.
What if?
What if, your view on morality is the wrong one?
What if, your morals are exactly the opposite to what is real and true?
Until you ask yourself these questions, and find the answers to them, then it almost seems pointless to ask others of their views.
These are only my thoughts and observations. And as usual, i hope that they will be viewed with respect, for just the fact, that i am me.
Lots of love, hugs and kisses
Little
XXX
What are morals? Who sets morals?
Who are you, to tell me, that i might be morally wrong.
My morality, is my business, not yours.
Read the bible if you like, and spout forth as many questions on morality and society and selfishness (your word, not mine) as you like. If you like, i'll even discuss the bible back to you and spout forth the opposite to what you have just said. Its all about perspectives.
I am me. I am a selfless person who in no way either condems or accepts anything without knowing of it myself. You, you appear to have belief, which in itself is great, as only through having a belief in something, can you then question yourself with regards as to how real/educated/valid, that belief is. When you do this, then you can call yourself an openminded individual. Until you question yourself, your mind is as closed as the next person.
What if?
What if, your view on morality is the wrong one?
What if, your morals are exactly the opposite to what is real and true?
Until you ask yourself these questions, and find the answers to them, then it almost seems pointless to ask others of their views.
These are only my thoughts and observations. And as usual, i hope that they will be viewed with respect, for just the fact, that i am me.
Lots of love, hugs and kisses
Little
XXX
Sex God
ok guys i'm in a rambling, story telling kinda mood! skip this ok? ;)
i waaaaannnnnnaaa tell you a stoooooooorrrrryyyyyyyy!
once upon a time, not so very long ago, i was deeply, completely, head over bloody heels, in love with quite possibly the loveliest woman i could ever hope to meet! yes i know, shock! horror! i haven't always been a sad pathetic lonely single male! i've actually had girlfriends in my life, and blow me we actually had sex! but we had a little tricky problem . . . . .
although our sex life was pretty damn bloody good when we got round to it, it didn't happen often enough! we used to talk about it often, and in the course of those convos, she, without any prompting on my part, brought up the subject of 3sums. now whether that was because she had latent bifem tendencies ((( i reckon so! ))) or whether she thought i had latent bi tendencies ((( those convos where she called me a poof were all joshing right! you know, as you do! ;) ))) i do not know, but whatever, the subject came up!
now i couldn't get past the idea of having another bloke in our bed to please her, and she couldn't get past the idea of another woman in the bed to please me, and certainly neither of us could even contemplate the idea that perhaps, we'd quite like to have someone of the same sex in our bed to please ourselves!
now my question, and this is every bit as rhetorical as tigris' question, is did we love each other too much, or not enough, to deny each other the exploration that we both knew were important, despite our reluctance to actually voice those needs, and deny each other an outlet for a repressed sexuality that possibly both of us needed to find some way to express?
i don't know. but i have my own view on it.
neil x x x x ;)
i waaaaannnnnnaaa tell you a stoooooooorrrrryyyyyyyy!
once upon a time, not so very long ago, i was deeply, completely, head over bloody heels, in love with quite possibly the loveliest woman i could ever hope to meet! yes i know, shock! horror! i haven't always been a sad pathetic lonely single male! i've actually had girlfriends in my life, and blow me we actually had sex!
but we had a little tricky problem . . . . . although our sex life was pretty damn bloody good when we got round to it, it didn't happen often enough! we used to talk about it often, and in the course of those convos, she, without any prompting on my part, brought up the subject of 3sums. now whether that was because she had latent bifem tendencies ((( i reckon so! ))) or whether she thought i had latent bi tendencies ((( those convos where she called me a poof were all joshing right! you know, as you do! ;) ))) i do not know, but whatever, the subject came up!
now i couldn't get past the idea of having another bloke in our bed to please her, and she couldn't get past the idea of another woman in the bed to please me, and certainly neither of us could even contemplate the idea that perhaps, we'd quite like to have someone of the same sex in our bed to please ourselves!
now my question, and this is every bit as rhetorical as tigris' question, is did we love each other too much, or not enough, to deny each other the exploration that we both knew were important, despite our reluctance to actually voice those needs, and deny each other an outlet for a repressed sexuality that possibly both of us needed to find some way to express?
i don't know. but i have my own view on it.
neil x x x x ;)
Sex God
:shock: :shock: :shock:
Wow!!!! Neil had a girlfriend!!!!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:
only kidding babes...... still trying to figure out how you could possibly be single!!!
Anyway... I don't think it was a case of you loving each other too mujch or not enough.. it was just a non-swinging relationship!! (I've had these sort in the past) i didn't love them any less than i love R, it was just a different kind of love. I know what I mean anyway lol
Wow!!!! Neil had a girlfriend!!!!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:
only kidding babes...... still trying to figure out how you could possibly be single!!!
Anyway... I don't think it was a case of you loving each other too mujch or not enough.. it was just a non-swinging relationship!! (I've had these sort in the past) i didn't love them any less than i love R, it was just a different kind of love. I know what I mean anyway lol
Sex God
Quote by neilinleeds
ok guys i'm in a rambling, story telling kinda mood! skip this ok? ;)
i waaaaannnnnnaaa tell you a stoooooooorrrrryyyyyyyy!
once upon a time, not so very long ago, i was deeply, completely, head over bloody heels, in love with quite possibly the loveliest woman i could ever hope to meet! yes i know, shock! horror! i haven't always been a sad pathetic lonely single male! i've actually had girlfriends in my life, and blow me we actually had sex!
although our sex life was pretty damn bloody good when we got round to it, it didn't happen often enough! we used to talk about it often, and in the course of those convos, she, without any prompting on my part, brought up the subject of 3sums. now whether that was because she had latent bifem tendencies ((( i reckon so! ))) or whether she thought i had latent bi tendencies ((( those convos where she called me a poof were all joshing right! you know, as you do! ;) ))) i do not know, but whatever, the subject came up!
now i couldn't get past the idea of having another bloke in our bed to please her, and she couldn't get past the idea of another woman in the bed to please me, and certainly neither of us could even contemplate the idea that perhaps, we'd quite like to have someone of the same sex in our bed to please ourselves!
now my question, and this is every bit as rhetorical as tigris' question, is did we love each other too much, or not enough, to deny each other the exploration that we both knew were important, despite our reluctance to actually voice those needs, and deny each other an outlet for a repressed sexuality that possibly both of us needed to find some way to express?
i don't know. but i have my own view on it.
neil x x x x ;)
FFS Foursome
:lol: :lol: :lol: Tigris - Trip-trap! Trip-trap!
Sex God
tune?
don't you trip trap over myyyy bridge! ta very much you old goat! ;) set them trolls on yer! :mad: ;)
in them days, we didn't know about soft swing, or same room fun, or the rest of it! we just thought about penetration. and it ain't easy thinking about it! so the scathing moralistic attitude of those who clearly haven't thought about it, and kinda seen where they're feelings might be on the whole thing, kinda wind me up. but yes! trip-trap trip-trap! :lol2:
n x x x :P
don't you trip trap over myyyy bridge! ta very much you old goat! ;) set them trolls on yer! :mad: ;)
in them days, we didn't know about soft swing, or same room fun, or the rest of it! we just thought about penetration. and it ain't easy thinking about it! so the scathing moralistic attitude of those who clearly haven't thought about it, and kinda seen where they're feelings might be on the whole thing, kinda wind me up. but yes! trip-trap trip-trap! :lol2:
n x x x :P
hiya tigris
i will try and answer your questions in this simple way
moments in my life where i have truly felt love(where you look into eachothers eyes and wow) first was when i asked my babes to marry me,second was when we exchanged vows,third was when we had our twins,and fourth was when we both woke one morning after our first swing,it was kinda like starting over :inlove:
cant really put it into words tigris,just two very unselfish people being one
trust without it you have nothing
i will try and answer your questions in this simple way
moments in my life where i have truly felt love(where you look into eachothers eyes and wow) first was when i asked my babes to marry me,second was when we exchanged vows,third was when we had our twins,and fourth was when we both woke one morning after our first swing,it was kinda like starting over :inlove:
cant really put it into words tigris,just two very unselfish people being one
trust without it you have nothing
Quote by wewantu2
and fourth was when we both woke one morning after our first swing,it was kinda like starting over :inlove:
cant really put it into words tigris,just two very unselfish people being one
trust without it you have nothing
The whole thread summed up. Well done, what a cracking post, that's it exactly.
Quote by neilinleeds
!
now my question, and this is every bit as rhetorical as tigris' question, is did we love each other too much, or not enough, to deny each other the exploration that we both knew were important, despite our reluctance to actually voice those needs, and deny each other an outlet for a repressed sexuality that possibly both of us needed to find some way to express?
i don't know. but i have my own view on it.
neil x x x x ;)
In answer to your question my view, for what its worth, would be that unless you were both into swinging before you met it takes time before you both develop the necessary confidence to swing.
The first stages of a relationship can be magical and heart skipping where your partner is constantly on your mind. As time goes by and your relationship strengthens, and youre not constantly worried that the love of your life will no longer respect you or want you, you develop a different type of love. Not necessarily heart skipping, although it might be, and you both are more confident of where you stand. Maybe then is the time to explore.
Just a thought
Quote by dazandlou
As I stated in the chatroom I joined because I found the threads I read to be full of warm friendly individuals, I am finding it difficult to reconcile how such warm friendly individuals would be at ease sleeping with others outside of the sanctity of marriage.
Well i dont count in the whole sanctity of marriage thing cos daz and i arent married yet! However, warm friendly individuals do enjoy sexual activities and this is most probably why we are at ease sleeping with other people. Daz and i "make love" together and are very much in love, whereas swinging is purely sex and the only emotion involved is pure unadulterated lust and a genuine like for the people we are swinging with.
Quote by tigris
I also have a million dollar question regarding my first post, if the other partner suddenly decided they were not happy with you taking part in this activity would you stop? or would this be the end of the marriage?
Having read the rest of the thread i just wanted to add some more thoughts.... like a few other people have said... how the HELL did you stumble across this site??? you obviously had to be looking for a swinging site, was it just to criticise, or did you really want to enjoy the swinging lifestyle???
I would much rather watch Daz with another woman and know who it is and where she is, that way i dont have to worry about him going off and getting it from someone else behind my back...... whats so wrong with that????
um, let me think, love or sex?? well lets put it this way.... i can have great orgasms with my toys, but they wont love me all the time or be there for me when i'm down, or cuddle me just cos i ask... so i can safely say if it became a problem swinging would be the thing to go without a doubt.
Seriously though, all this sanctity of marriage crap is just stupid.... i dont want to marry anybody i swing with... i just want to shag the arse of them!! the whole point of swinging is NSA fun, so why does your relationship/marriage need to come into it?? surely the strength of your relationship/marriage is proved by the trust you show in allowing each other to be with someone else intimately.
i dont need to marry daz to "forsake all others", quite frankly being with daz for so long has put me off being with anyone esle!!! seriously though, marriage is about a bond of love between 2 people, swinging is the enjoyment and excitement of friendship and sex between 2,3,4 or MORE people!!!
i dont need to marry daz to "forsake all others", quite frankly being with daz for so long has put me off being with anyone esle!!!
seriously though, marriage is about a bond of love between 2 people, swinging is the enjoyment and excitement of friendship and sex between 2,3,4 or MORE people!!! 
Orgasminator
We got married 2 years ago and organised a 3some for our wedding night. It was bloody brilliant
Quote by dazandlou
Seriously though, all this sanctity of marriage crap is just stupid.... i dont want to marry anybody i swing with... i just want to shag the arse of them!!
...the whole point of swinging is NSA fun, so why does your relationship/marriage need to come into it?? ... swinging is the enjoyment and excitement of friendship and sex between 2,3,4 or MORE people!!!
Yes indeed it is obvious swinging is no strings attached fun, but it clearly contradicts and makes a mockery of marriage vows more akin to the lifestyle of a porn star, you may view swinging as an enlightened lifestyle letting your partner indulge in anything they deem suitable for their hedonistic enjoyment, and those that do not agree with it have not been enlightened enough it's a case of anything goes, if it gives me pleasure why shouldn't I do it?, those that disagree with the lifestyle may simply see you as being unable to control your sexual desires and want to have the cow and the milk with no strings attached. What happens when negative consequences occur due to the swinging lifestyle? sexually transmitted diseases for example, what precautions are taken by the swinging couple to prevent these freakish scenarios?
I am wondering seriously how many swinging couples would still be together as a couple if one partner decided enough was enough after reading threads like these:
http://www.swingingheaven.co.uk/swingers-forum/viewtopic/26151.html
Quote by tigris
I am wondering seriously how many swinging couples would still be together as a couple if one partner decided enough was enough after reading threads like these:
http://www.swingingheaven.co.uk/swingers-forum/viewtopic/26151.html
Sorry - I don't the analogy. The thread you point to is a genuine thread from someone asking a question about something she is choosing to do - or at least making a decision on. She is asking honest advise. What does that have to do with couples deciding not to swing?
Sorry - am I missin something?
Quote by tigrissee arguments given above but if two married (to each other) adults consent, then they are most likely to have discussed it very much in detail before hand. This doesn't actually make a mockery of the vows at all!
Yes indeed it is obvious swinging is no strings attached fun, but it clearly contradicts and makes a mockery of marriage vows
Quote by tigris
you may view swinging as an enlightened lifestyle letting your partner indulge in anything they deem suitable for their hedonistic enjoyment, and those that do not agree with it have not been enlightened enough it's a case of anything goes, if it gives me pleasure why shouldn't I do it?
that makes it cound like you saying one partner puts the enjoyment of the other aboe everything else but it simply isn't like that. And it certainly is not a case of anything goes! Me and my partner have strict boundaries ... neither would hurt the other by crossing that or allowing it. it's not about selfish love at all .... the way you've worded it makes me feel you think we are selfish.
Quote by tigris
those that disagree with the lifestyle may simply see you as being unable to control your sexual desires and want to have the cow and the milk with no strings attached.
I don't see what business it is of anyone elses ... if I'm not sticking my nose into their business and flaunting myself why should anyone else care?
Quote by tigris
What happens when negative consequences occur due to the swinging lifestyle? sexually transmitted diseases for example, what precautions are taken by the swinging couple to prevent these freakish scenarios?
I would bet that most couples/swingers on here have some awesome condom collections on here :twisted: in my opinion a couple will go further to protect themselves than drunken singles ..........
Quote by tigris
I am wondering seriously how many swinging couples would still be together as a couple if one partner decided enough was enough after reading threads like these:
Swinging is not something people take lightly .... i would imagine that most couples on here married or not have the rule ......."if one says no, we both stop" .. at the end of the day swinging is fun but it's not something that rules your life or to risk your relationship for!
Sex God
Quote by tigris
I am wondering seriously how many swinging couples would still be together as a couple if one partner decided enough was enough after reading threads like these:
http://www.swingingheaven.co.uk/swingers-forum/viewtopic/26151.html
I think I must be missing the point there too.. what has an enlightening and informative thread got to do with all this crap?
