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using // your swinger friends (my ethical problem)

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WARNING: Waffling with philosophical undertones right ahead. Read at own risk.
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OK most of you don't know me as I have only been active on SH for the last few months. I signed up some time ago out of sheer horniness, but it took me years to jump in, in part because I had many strong and negative preconceptions about swinging. Starting contact has been an eye opener - I am surpised and awed by the variety of life-form to be found on here lol
I know that for some of you this is purely about sex, just a bit of fun (or a lot of fun, whatever smile ) and not something you'd think about too much. But for those that take it a little more seriously... I need some help. I am now meeting new friends, some of which (I know) may well last me a decade. But while I chose to get closer to these people, I enjoy contact with them and they are people I would have liked to socalise with *anyway*, I can't stop feeling like there is something deliberate and calculated about our interractions. Perhaps partially this feeling is caused because of how quickly these relationships progress (by normal standards), which I guess is something I'll have to adjust to, with experience. But there is also a more distasteful side to it, as to various degrees I feel like we are all *using* each other.
My other, more practical, issue is... how do these intimate acquaintances fit in with the rest of your social circle? Is any of you open about your lifestyle? If not, do you keep worlds seperate? This is a turn-off for me as it re-inforces the feeling of artificiality I tried to describe above. I find some unfortunate irony in that what is meant to be opening you up in fact pushes you to compartmentalise further dunno
What do y'all think?
Actually I think what you've come across is something we all have to consider in one form or another from the die-hards to the casual swingers.
We all have an ulterior motive in getting to know each other better. That's because we all want something more than friendship. Whether that undermines the friendship is another matter entirely. I have friends I've met through the scene and would have no problems introducing them to vanilla friends as they understand discretion and I trust them. I wouldn't do it with someone I just met though. It might be worth considering your scene friends as a different circle of friends rather than false ones. I have different interests and friends I have in one do not necessarily mix with the others but it doesn't make them any less a friend.
So while you may get that mistrustful feeling I would say just go with the flow and trust your intuition, if you're not comfortable, talk further until you are. It's not a race and I'd say if someone isn't going to give you time then they probably aren't for you.
Use your nouse.
I have made some genuine friends through swingers sites. Most of whom I have not played with, at least for years. No "using" involved.
Like any other situation in life, there are users on the swinging scene.
The trick is to separate that chaff from the genuine wheat.
If you go for the 'eat, shoots and leaves' variety, then yes, it could be seen as 'using'.If however, there is more to the friendship, like chatting, socialising, doing good deeds etc, then it will only ever be what you want, no labels required.
Just go with what's comfortable.
I have friends on here who I am genuinely glad just to see when I meet them again, sure we get to the dirty stuff soon enough but we drink, chat and catch up before, during and after.
Its not like some mutual sex transaction, more of a filthy friendly sexual interaction. No one gets used and so no one should need to feel uncomfortable wink
The only time I have ever felt a girl feeling used was when she asked me and my friend really nicely :twisted:
Essentially there is something calculated, in that you are meeting up for 'something' rather than just meeting.
But isn't that the same as if I meet up with a friend with the intention of getting him/her to show me how to fix my camera, or if I'm invited round to tea and then asked to help proofread a CV or when I arrange a day in town so that I can pick my friend's brains about outfit ideas for a party? I mean we 'use' our friends all the time, just as they 'use' us.
As long as both parties are happy and all meets are mutual, then what's the bother?
dunno Enjoy!
For us the problem does not exist or we havent experienced it yet. We tend to meet people a few times maybe a socials nothing develops they are friends. Or we meet people and have sexual encounters maybe twice then it all just seems to fizzle off and we dont see them again.
if its all mutual, consented fun how could it be 'using'?
i have found myself making many more social friends here than sexual partners and the boundaries have blurred a little with my vanilla life
a friend is a friend to me, someone i share lifes ups and downs with as in any friendship
when i meet sexual partners we have lots of fun, eat, drink, play, chat (not necessarily in that order) lol
you seem to be thinking too deeply about things and prob still have some doubts about the swinging world???
yes there are some here just want to use you for sexual gratification, if thats not you, avoid them as there are lots of other respectful lovely people here
Thank you for your replies.
Quote by motorcyclerob
We all have an ulterior motive in getting to know each other better. That's because we all want something more than friendship. Whether that undermines the friendship is another matter entirely.

Yes/no, this is exactly my problem here! Whether the initial approach/ultimate goal devalues the friendship. Rather in contrast to what some of you have suggested, I do not have this issue with straight "transaction" type encounters, they are much more honest in their approach and in such an arrangement I wouldn't mind "using" others or having them "use" me. I guess what makes me feel uncomfortable is that perhaps I only build the friendships because I have no guts, for lack of a better expression, to jump in with the *really* casual sex. To follow on Nola's examples - to ask a friend to take me out in their fast car is acceptable, to befriend a person who has a fast car so that I can be taken out in it is questionable. Does that make sense?
Quote by noladreams
dunno Enjoy!

God forbid! lol
Just use me whenever ya want.....then point me in the general direction of home ... or pull me nighty down when your finished ... I'll remain yer friend forever wink
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This could almost segue into the 'hardened' swinger debate. ie at what point do you feel its no longer an organic thing but is manufactured reality. Well its mostly in between but nearing either end of the scale depending on the circumstances. But with sex in its many forms its often a needs must thing. So its no different with swinging.
Yes we are using each other; perhaps the ‘each other’ is the important part.
I have had a 4some with friends I had know for a few years, which did not go as well as some meets.
I have been to clubs and played within an hour of first contact. On the other hand I have chatted to some on here know the chance of a meet is remote. One thing is for sure, if I don’t like them they are not having my body.
One person I met on SH, I met her family, and not a word did we say to them. Some have become friends.
The bottom line is, if you do not harm anyone, why not?
Do I keep swinging and vanilla separate? Mostly.
Travis
I have never understood the word USING being related in any way to swinging, if all parties are consensual then it's mutual.
If not, then that's a completely different ball game and nothing to do with swinging at all!
I used to say that we do this for the sex and if we make friends out of it then that's a bonus and that is still very true up to a point.
I can honestly say though, that some of the best meets we have had are ones where we were friends first. It makes it much more relaxed as you already know each other, have an idea of the kind of things you all like, there is no pressure and can have a giggle; in comparison to the meets where we meet, have a quick drink and then go and fuck. One meet we had was so regimented that as soon as we turned up at the house and was given a glass of wine, we were told exactly what time we would be going upstairs. That was not the most comfortable of situations.
I agree with Bambi and don't think that 'using' is a word which should be related to swinging. Using to me is a word which relates to one person doing the 'using' while the other person is after a little more and ends up getting hurt. As swinging is about mutual nsa sexual activities, I believe that if there is any using involved then at least one of the parties is doing it for the wrong reasons and that's when problems are sure to arise.
I think part of the problem pebble is that you are committing an act that is frowned upon by the majority of the public
This in itself can make the whole idea at first sometimes feel sordid or wrong, even?
but then you have a desire to that drives you to do this,the very same desires that force you into meeting like minded others and visa versa ,your not befriending others for just your own personal gain your making a unison for the mutual benefit of all involved
a bit like the person with a sports car they have the car you wanna ride in but you have the oil or the petrol needed to drive the car
all these feelings subside very early after you make Friends and start playing and its a little like having sex for the first time by the third or forth its the norm and all forgotten about wink
as for people keeping the two lives well and truly separated i think most of the time its good practice most of our Friends know Liza is bisexual but very few know she or we go looking for for bisexual women or couples with bi women
I meet with a lady from this site regularly and we, for want of a better word, use each other at the same time wink I was recently faced with a moral dilemma when she asked to be a friend on Facebook. To me the two worlds should be kept slightly apart and seperate in case anything gets commented upon, either deliberately or by accident. I'm old fashioned enough to believe what happens in the bedroon should not be flaunted or revealed in public. A gentleman never tells.
Pity the tabloids don't stick to that line...smackbottom
I recently had a dilemma, where we where looking for a photographer to take pics of the better half and possibly more intimate stuff between us.
The photographer we asked asked what he would get in return, and we made it quite open not very much unless it was with his female partner. At which point he just said good luck.
Which was fair do's on him, as there would be nothing more uncomfortable than him doing the photo shoot then saying.. shag me or pay me.
Anyways at that point we realised that if we did anything in return it would be like paying him for his services through sex.
We realised there is a very fine line in having a swinging friend who happens to be a photographer. Or a photo shoot which organically the subject turns into sexual involving the photographer in comparison to a Photo shoot where the agreement with the photographer is that he will have sexual acts performed on him or her as payment.
Unfortunately for him had he not asked things may potentially have gone that way anyway.
lol
Quote by duncanlondon
This could almost segue into the 'hardened' swinger debate.

So much so, Duncan, that when I started writing the inital post, it contained a quote from your message in that thread.
skinny, how long *is* your nightie? lol
, Funlovers, what you describe is one of the reason I have stayed on this time (as opposed to having a perv at the local ads and then logging off, which I did the first time round), because I realised the more laid-back approach is is an option here.
Lizaleanrob, thank you, what you wrote makes perfect sense (I do have the oil redface). The bit that clicked was that, even though mutual consent is not enough to makes it all right in my mind, the desire to exchange (the fact that each has something to offer willingly, and the offers are mutual but without any demands of reciprocation) certainly is. Photographer scenario makes a perfect case of tiptoing this line.
In conclusion I guess I can now think of my swinging friends as a subset like any other - people with which I share a common interest in sexual expression and swinging (and with some of them this may well be the only common thing between us, that's ok too).