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Vouching for someone

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A question has arisen in another thread, and I think it might be a good idea to discuss it here.
When someone who is fairly new or not well known in here wants to come to a munch or social meet, and the person is asked whether someone can vouch for them, it has to my knowledge never been established what we mean by that. Is it assumed that the person or couple has actually met the person concerned face to face? Or if they have had a number of chats in the chat room, or via messenger or PMs, is that regarded as good enough? You could make a case that long chats in the chat room can actually give you a better impression of someone than a brief face to face meet, so perhaps we need to establish some criteria for vouching for someone.
Mike.
Quote by duncanlondon
Would that be a ........
Muncheon Voucher


Good Q, tho.
:laughabove:
I think if someone is asked to be vouched for it is expected from someone who has actually met them, sometimes a munch organiser will let someone they don't personally know go cause they are well known in the chat room or have posted a lot but in them cases they are not asked to be vouched for, personally i would never vouch for anyone i have not met cause u can never really know a person by chatting on here.
Quote by duncanlondon
Would that be a ........
Muncheon Voucher

lol You owe me a keyboard! Or at least a warning not to drink coffee while reading that...
Quote by naughtynymphos1
:laughabove:
I think if someone is asked to be vouched for it is expected from someone who has actually met them, sometimes a munch organiser will let someone they don't personally know go cause they are well known in the chat room or have posted a lot but in them cases they are not asked to be vouched for, personally i would never vouch for anyone i have not met cause u can never really know a person by chatting on here.

Wise words, although I suggest a rating system where you need 10 points before being muncheon vouchered wink
Suggested points scheme :-
10 - good shag hump
0 - bad shag :fuckinghell:
5 - good oral 69position
10 - hit the ceiling oral blast
5 - good meet - bought me a drink ! :P
1 - met but ran away bolt
10 - met but they ran away - catch em at the munch :twisted:
Of course this only applies to the women cos you cant trust a man rotflmao
Obviously as munch organisers we all take a risk when inviting a newbie to a munch (no offense to newbies we were all one once), however we have to take a risk sometimes and claire and steve lincs took one on me, bet they wished they hadnt now! biggrin
It is wholey impossible for organisers to get to know every newbie that asks to be considered so we ask for assistance from established members.
At the least we are hoping that established members can say they have interacted in whatever way with a newbie and that believe they will show respect and behave accordingly at a munch.
IMHO it is better if a member knows a newbie personally, a friend, from a club or a meet, but for 99% of newbies we have to go on what we can judge by their attitude on the forums or in the chatroom towards the site and other members.
A very interesting and thought provoking thread.
For me, personally; vouching for someone would cause great personal conflict.
Like MM1970, someone took a risk on me last year. A risk based on 3 or 4 emails and a 20 minute 1:30 am phone call; :shock: and possibly my dozen or so posts in the forum. (Who remembers, from a year ago; the drunken buffoon wandering around getting lost? redface) And I will be eternally grateful to him for taking that risk.
The personal conflict I have is based on discretion.
Sure - I can say I've met people for coffee, or a pint and a bite to eat. I can and do develop an opinion on those people - but that's what it is. An opinion. It's possiblefor that scenario to be enough to vouch for a potential muncher's character, but certainly not their occupation.
I could only positively vouch for someone I have either played with or seen playing with someone other than their partner. That's where my conflict lies, and the main reason I am very reluctant to vouch for people.
So for me, personally; "How do we trulyvouch for people?" is an unanswerable question, and leads back the unmentionable "V" word.
Not much help - I know. Just my thoughts.
But I do think this is pretty close:
Quote by MM1970
IMHO it is better if a member knows a newbie personally, a friend, from a club or a meet, but for 99% of newbies we have to go on what we can judge by their attitude on the forums or in the chatroom towards the site and other members.
I am a Newby and I do not fully understand the problem. By reading the Terminology a Munch is purely social (no play). It is all legal and strickly above board. So why does
anybody need to be vouched for? Is there not a greater risk (especially for the newbies)
to meet up blue eyed with some hardened swingers not knowing what will be happening?
What is the worst case scenario. A reporter could infiltrate may be as I have read in one
of the threads. But what can he do? A write up of what? If a Munch is only a social
event. And even if he writes something it will only drive more people to the SH sites. The Pop Stars do it all the time. A breast poping out oooh so unintentionally and they are back in business.
Or do it get the whole idea wrong? One solution would of course be to have Munches
for Newbies with may be a couple of experienced genuine swingers as watch dogs.
Mike North mate:-
I see a certain danger ahead. :-
"Vouch"
To state that someone is who they claim to be or that they are of good character.
"Verify"
Make sure or show that something orsomeone is true or accurate.
I think you know the thread I am on about. We have been down this road before and we do not want to raise it's ugly head again, do we ?.
Just my thoughts on the subject.
Fred
Thank you Judy, makes sence
Quote by Fred aka Medic 1
Mike North mate:-
I see a certain danger ahead. :-
"Vouch"
To state that someone is who they claim to be or that they are of good character.
"Verify"
Make sure or show that something or someone is true or accurate.
I think you know the thread I am on about. We have been down this road before and we do not want to raise it's ugly head again, do we ?.
Just my thoughts on the subject.
Fred

But, dear Fred, it is not me (or should I say "I") who has instituted the practice of "vouching" - it is already taking place: several times someone has been added to a munch or social meet list as a result of being "vouched for" by someone. I'm just pointing out the possible inconsistency of this practice - nobody is raising the old topic of a (dreaded ugly word) system.
Mike.
Quote by Fred aka Medic 1
Mike North mate:-
I think you know the thread I am on about. We have been down this road before and we do not want to raise it's ugly head again, do we ?.
Just my thoughts on the subject.
Fred

rotflmao :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
Who started that thread with the ugly head then?????
Getting deja vu here Mike. :shock:
http://www.swingingheaven.co.uk/swingers-forum/viewtopic/27234.html
Sorry Mike
It was not meant to infer that you had started it.
Just poining out where it could lead to .
Once again sorry mate
Fred
Tricky one from both sides; even I can see that and I'm still a newbie myself.
Fact is, everyone knows there are an awful lot of Freds out there pretending to be Fredas - though I can never understand how someone could derive pleasure from such deceit.
At the same time, many people HAVE met up but for a variety of reason wish to keep their liasons secret.
It is a bit of quandry for newbies like me who are genuine and who wish to attend gatherings, however for the sake of everyone's peace of mind, it is my humble opinion that it takes time to get to know someone in any situation. Newbies (including myself) should make the effort to join in as much as possible where they can - i.e. forums and/or chatroom. Friendships will form naturally, phone numbers are usually exchanged whereby you can at least have a smidgeon of hope that the voice on the other end IS male/female as they claim.
Doesn't deal with the press issue but then, nothing ever does because the press are a law unto themselves.
Just as we 'trust' and go off to meet strangers, we all have to 'trust' at some point that the person we are meeting IS genuine - on both sides.
Just my sixpence worth. smile
Quote by new2trot
Tricky one from both sides;.
Fact is, everyone knows there are an awful lot of Freds out there pretending to be Fredas - though I can never understand how someone could derive pleasure from such deceit.

lol :lol:
Me a Freda Noooooooo wink :wink:
rotflmao :rotflmao:
Quote by Fred aka Medic 1
Tricky one from both sides;.
Fact is, everyone knows there are an awful lot of Freds out there pretending to be Fredas - though I can never understand how someone could derive pleasure from such deceit.

lol :lol:
Me a Freda Noooooooo wink :wink:
rotflmao :rotflmao:
whoops! Told ya I was new! lol! x
Good thread MikeNorth.
My personal view is that "vouching" for someone means that you have met them in real life and you believe they are an OK person. That is, someone who is not a complete tosser who will make a complete dick of him or herself all night (as did someone who I mistakenly allowed to attend one of the NW Socials in the past, even though he didn't have anyone who could vouch for him - I'm just too nice rolleyes ), or a NOTW reporter. "Vouching" for someone does not mean that you have shagged them necessarily, it is a simple "yeah, I've met Mr. XYZ and he seems OK to me". Obviously, if Mr. XYZ does turn out to be a right plonker the voucher should not be held responsible for the cock up, as they just gave a brief opinion in good faith - to me, that is all that vouching is really - an opinion of someone's character, in good faith.
To me, "vouching" is entirely different than the verification system that was attempted in the chat room some months ago. That system was verifying someone as a "genuine swinger"......... whatever that meant :shock: ....... "vouching" for someone is not a system endorsed by SH and you will not get a special credit by your username to denote that you have been "V'd". "Vouching" is something we do in life often but don't realise it, it is part of human nature when we get together in a community. In my opinion, munch organisers who ask for people to be vouched for do good! cool I do it myself, and I am much more careful now when inviting newbies to social functions as I have had my fingers burned!
If you do vouch for someone ...it is in good faith of course so if he/she turns out to be a complete tosser, as Bluexxx said don't blame the person who did the vouching because in any other case no one would want to take the chance and vouch for anyone!
We are at home one day when i picked up the local rag and i'm talking local you know the one's half full of house,s letters about anti-social behaviour and there on about page 2 big spread on local dogging and the swinging scene and this website was mentioned at least twice mad , nearly fell of the chair rolleyes .
Our point is we are newbies and to be quite honest we are finding it hard, who do you trust? Let's face i could be anyone, anybody else could be anyone.
When you really think :idea: about it could blow your mind.
Am feeling kinda responsible for this as I postedthe thread about dumb idea. My point was whether anyone in my local area was willing to meet just to chat....no play to check out that I was who I said I was and see face to face how I behaved. Why did I wonder about this? Because I also know how many people out there are answering ads just for kicks without any real thought that they are mailing real people.
Reading the thread it seems to me that it has stirred up a lot of negativity and remembered bad feeling. For that I am sorry.
My frustration is that I truly am an open guy, true to his word but trying to get noticed in a medium that is deep in deception and half-truths.
Shame that we live in an age when trusting someone is a risk.
J
i don't feel u need to be sorry, its a good thread and a question that come up offen when people want to go to munches etc biggrin
Quote by da69ve
If you do vouch for someone ...it is in good faith of course so if he/she turns out to be a complete tosser, as Bluexxx said don't blame the person who did the vouching because in any other case no one would want to take the chance and vouch for anyone!

I think this completely undermines the value of vouching for someone. If you vouch for someone and they misbehave then you must be as responsible for their behaviour as they are. That way people who have been admitted on the say so of someone else are more likely to behave because they have an obligation to that person.
I don't think it matters whether you've met anyone, shagged 'em or just conversed with them on here - it is a matter of judgement for the voucher. I honestly think that munch organisers should satisfy themselves that a person who vouches for someone else is reliable too.
Quote by JudyTV
I'm easy to spot at munches though :P .
Judy

Unless you are Slyde who had been drinking all day at 'SPARKLE' & utter the immortal words "Aye, I just spoke with Rachel & she, Judy & Bluexxx will be here soon"
Only to be told Judy was in the corner speaking with Bluexxx (3 ppl away from me) & Rachel was outside - PLEASE EARTH OPEN UP & SWALLOW ME!! redface surprisedops:
Anyway I went to my first munch this year on an invite from ppl who had read my posts & enjoyed my humour, whether that was a vouch I don't know & for those who have met me I hope your lives have been enriched by my lunacy!
The WHOOSH Manâ„¢
Quote by SlydeWHOOSH
Only to be told Judy was in the corner speaking with Bluexxx (3 ppl away from me) & Rachel was outside - PLEASE EARTH OPEN UP & SWALLOW ME!! redface surprisedops:

lol :lol: :lol:
That was HILARIOUS!!! It was the second funniest quote of the day...sorry, can't reveal the first funniest....but I can say that VickyUK nearly made me choke on my cigarette! :lol:
yep another newbie throwing his ore in :P
personally i wouldnt want to know if someoned had vouched for me and i wouldnt ask anyone too coz if theirs drink involved my behaviour can change from nite out to nite out , sometimes i can be quiet sometimes so flirty crystal ends up telling me off , and sometimes i just start singing and cant stop ((in a kareoke way not football yob way ) , and i couldnt vouch for anyone as even crystal surprises me sometimes with her behaviour on nites out and ive lived with her for 5-6 years , not in a bad way mind you but she has a habit when sober to spk without thinking first , not a bad thing except when she says something about anything that isnt someone business ect
hmm having just possibly lost my invite for the glasgow much ill leave now hehe
matt
Quote by JudyTV
I’m afraid this would stop me completely from vouching for anyone and I must stress anyone at all if I had to be responsible for them I would be on edge all the time so I just wouldnt do it. That sort of pressure would or could spoil my own fun. It is completely impossible to vouch for how someone will act under all circumstances. He / she may be a perfectly nice person except when they have their 5th drink. Surely we cant be responsible for every situation. My ex was a non drinker so how could I vouch for her behaviour if she eve had a couple of glasses of wine at a Christmas event. Not feasible really.
Judy

I haven't got an axe to grind, particularly, but in that case what value the vouch? Not much. If you can't be sure of someone then it should be as you say - don't vouch for 'em. Surely that's what vouching for someone is all about. If it is too risky, generally, then it is a practice which shouldn't continue. Let people earn others' confidence over time on the site.
Good thread Mike.
Quote by bluexxx
" you will not get a special credit by your username to denote that you have been "V'd".

... OMG - would have though anyone that has VD against their username would have everyone running a mile, not issuing invites!
lol :lol: :lol:
Quote by westerross
I haven't got an axe to grind, particularly, but in that case what value the vouch? Not much. If you can't be sure of someone then it should be as you say - don't vouch for 'em. Surely that's what vouching for someone is all about. If it is too risky, generally, then it is a practice which shouldn't continue. Let people earn others' confidence over time on the site.

Quote by JudyTV

Again, proposers and seconders wouldn't work too well as accusations of cliques would be even stronger than they are now. I really don't think there is a hard and fast formula.
Judy

Wise words Tune and Judy - this is not a problem that can ever be solved to everyone's satisfaction I think. But wouldn't it be good if (I know this won't happen but I wish it could be tried) if stickies about munches were here in the cafe unstead of in LMU. Then they would be a lot less likely to be seen by the one-post chancers looking for a fast track to a quick shag, many of whom I suspect never visit the cafe. We would then get interest in invites to munches only from those who have spent a while in here taking part in (as the cafe blurb says) "general discussion and chit-chat", and general socialising which is just as strong an element of a munch as any possible swinging activity (for most people anyway).
Mike.
have to say ilike mikenorths idea of having the munch list in the cafe instead of the lmu bit but then again the one post chancers get told the same as the rest of us newbies ,,,, post well and show ur charecter in the fourum and then we'll see what happens , and the one posters just think a few posts will work and dont get invited and ppl like me and ck wear thier fingers to the bone ad get to the point of invite because they are gen and want to come for no other reason than a night out smile
oh and add to that the idea of draging a certain tall dark bloke home with us afterwards but we didnt get that idea untill wednesday :P
matt