I am just watching the FAT and PROUD programme on TV.
Why be proud of being fat ?
I am skinny, I think I am too skinny and would love to put a few pounds on, I am certainly not proud of being skinny and don't want to go round shoving it in peoples faces.
It is the same with GAY and PROUD, why would anyone be proud of being gay, I am a straight hetrosexual, that doesn't make me special, it doesn't make me proud, I don't go running around saying "hey look at me I am straight and proud of it" I wouldn't go on a "Straight Pride"
Size, colour, gender, religion does not make you special, just be happy and comfortable with what you are, whatever you are. Never be ashamed of it, there is nothing to be ashamed of, people are people.
If you are a size 18 or over your one of 20% of UK women, there must be the same number that are underweight, so that's 40% of the whole number, then take away the females that wouldn't come under the usual statistic counts ie pensioners and kids you will probably find that your just an average large person or an average slim person, nothing to be ashamed of nothing to be proud of.
Support Britain, support your family, support your friends, support our forces and then you can have something to be proud of no matter what your size is.
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xxxxxx AND PROUD
Its looks like you needed to say that. And seems like a well reasoned thought. Didn't you feel the tiniest bit of accomplishment and pride in doing so?
I think most motivations originate from the passions of the deadly sins such as pride, greed, envy etc. they are often seen as bad, but can in fact produce achievements as well.
I think you need to be allowed to feel such fundamental emotions for an appropriate period, but not to let them develop into the things we all fear and despise.
I think most motivations originate from the passions of the deadly sins such as pride, greed, envy etc. they are often seen as bad, but can in fact produce achievements as well.
I think you need to be allowed to feel such fundamental emotions for an appropriate period, but not to let them develop into the things we all fear and despise.
Sex God
glad i read the whole post when i read the first two lines i thought brucie was back 
anyway :thumbup: mids
anyway :thumbup: mids
Sex God
If your talking pride, then surely the thing(s) to be proud of are what you DO. Not as in "I'm the boss of a bank and very proud" but more like "I've fostered 50 kids and they have had a better life because of my actions".
In other words, I don't care what size, gender, etc you are, but do you help make the World a better place ?
John & Shel
In other words, I don't care what size, gender, etc you are, but do you help make the World a better place ?
John & Shel
Sex God
Quote by Cubes
Isn't it just an inappropriate use of the word 'proud'? Surely it would be better to say "I'm fat/gay/ginger/bald, and I don't give a toss whether you like it or not!!"?
Sums it up for me...... :thumbup:
Proud is easier to fit on a banner :lol2:
Besides which......If someone is proud of being fat/thin/gay/straight etc etc who are we to have a dig
Quote by Steve
Isn't it just an inappropriate use of the word 'proud'? Surely it would be better to say "I'm fat/gay/ginger/bald, and I don't give a toss whether you like it or not!!"?
Sums it up for me...... :thumbup:
Proud is easier to fit on a banner :lol2:
Besides which......If someone is proud of being fat/thin/gay/straight etc etc who are we to have a dig
:thumbup:
Quote by nellie-mwgc
Isn't it just an inappropriate use of the word 'proud'? Surely it would be better to say "I'm fat/gay/ginger/bald, and I don't give a toss whether you like it or not!!"?
Sums it up for me...... :thumbup:
Proud is easier to fit on a banner :lol2:
Besides which......If someone is proud of being fat/thin/gay/straight etc etc who are we to have a dig
:thumbup:
But if models are accused of creating a dangerous role model for young girls and adding to the problems of anorexia are people who condone obesity doing the same thing for youngsters then belieiving it is something to be proud of when you are morbidly obese ?
I have already agreed with many be stating that you should be comfortable with what you are, my point is about the media gloryifying such things in order to make money just as they do with super thin supermodels. Do programmes like this do any good or do they make people complacent about thier weight or lack of weight ? They show programs like "Fat Families" and "Fat and Proud" or "The biggest loser" (incidentely the Fat and Proud program I watched was immediately followed on the same channel by "Fat Families"
Should the media be allowed to manipulate us in such ways, by supporting all sides of the coin, one program telling Large people you will die soon and the other showing how to be happy with your large size ?
Do Gay Pride marches gain support for gay people or do they antagonise them ? did you support the IRA when they wanted to march through Manchester and Birmingham to say they were (in thier words) Marching for the freedom of Ireland and proud to be IRA and did you support the radical muslims that wanted to march through Royal Wooton Bassett because they were proud of being muslims against the British Army ? When is it right to be proud of something and when is it wrong ? who decides ?
Sex God
Quote by Cubes
Isn't it just an inappropriate use of the word 'proud'? Surely it would be better to say "I'm fat/gay/ginger/bald, and I don't give a toss whether you like it or not!!"?
:thumbup:
But I am special, my mum told me so
Quote by Bluefish2009
Isn't it just an inappropriate use of the word 'proud'? Surely it would be better to say "I'm fat/gay/ginger/bald, and I don't give a toss whether you like it or not!!"?
:thumbup:
But I am special, my mum told me so
But are you proud of being special or just pleased that you are :wink:
Sex God
Quote by MidsCouple24
Do Gay Pride marches gain support for gay people or do they antagonise them ? did you support the IRA when they wanted to march through Manchester and Birmingham to say they were (in thier words) Marching for the freedom of Ireland and proud to be IRA and did you support the radical muslims that wanted to march through Royal Wooton Bassett because they were proud of being muslims against the British Army ? When is it right to be proud of something and when is it wrong ? who decides ?
I've absolutely no idea what effect Gay Pride marches have on the Gay community but judging by the fact they keep happening I would suspect they don't antagonise them
Personally I support anyones right to march or protest as long as it is peaceful but then we both know that the examples you have cited are hardly comparable don't we
I am so sorry, I made a mistake in what I intended to say, I said "antagonise them" instead of antagonise others, I think most people understood what I was trying to say but there you go, I am of a low education standard and make mistakes. But yes since you mention it some of my gay friends are antagonised by Gay Pride marches, they tell me that they are neither proud or ashamed to be gay and do not want people to feel that they think they are special for being what they are, normal people who happen to be gay, they would rather have a "Gay awareness day" in the same way we have cancer awareness days.
The right to march has been discussed in other areas of the forum and that was not the point of my post, I spoke of the media that encourages people to be proud of something which to me is just a basic human trait, being gay, being obese, being dangerously slim, things which may have a profound effect on what others may choose to do with thier lives.
Steve you say that my comparisons are not comparible, I believe they are, I said where do we draw the line at what is acceptable to be proud of, in many Countries those taking part in a gay pride march would be murdered. Muslim Extemists marching through Royal Wooton Basset is offensive to many people, telling my daughter that she should be proud to be obese is offensive to me, telling me that my underweight problem is something to be proud of strikes me as stupidity, encouraging young girls to be so slim they become anorexic should be a criminal offence, we are supposed to have guidelines on TV to stop such practices, I believe those responsible for "viewing guidelines" are ignoring some fundamental issues. The media in general ignores many such aspects of our lives, yes they are very carefull when it comes to Muslim Clerics and what they have to say, they are guarded with what programmes they show about terrorist organisations but they allow and encourage others to broadcast or publish things which could be harmfull to the general public and especially younger people.
My whole post is really about the word Proud and who decides what they should be proud of and what they should believe is just "being human". We all know about being proud parents, proud of an achievement, proud of a qualification even proud of our own willpower in giving up smoking (I would love to achieve that one and would be proud of it but have failed miserably) which brings about another point, isn't something to be proud of some form of victory over adversity ? proud that you did something, are people really proud that they managed to get overweight or couldn't put on the right amount of body weight or were born gay ? doesn't the use of the word in the wrong way take something away from those that have earned the right to be proud, for example our para-olympic acheivers ? using such a powerfull word the way the media and programmers do, to me is wrong.
The right to march has been discussed in other areas of the forum and that was not the point of my post, I spoke of the media that encourages people to be proud of something which to me is just a basic human trait, being gay, being obese, being dangerously slim, things which may have a profound effect on what others may choose to do with thier lives.
Steve you say that my comparisons are not comparible, I believe they are, I said where do we draw the line at what is acceptable to be proud of, in many Countries those taking part in a gay pride march would be murdered. Muslim Extemists marching through Royal Wooton Basset is offensive to many people, telling my daughter that she should be proud to be obese is offensive to me, telling me that my underweight problem is something to be proud of strikes me as stupidity, encouraging young girls to be so slim they become anorexic should be a criminal offence, we are supposed to have guidelines on TV to stop such practices, I believe those responsible for "viewing guidelines" are ignoring some fundamental issues. The media in general ignores many such aspects of our lives, yes they are very carefull when it comes to Muslim Clerics and what they have to say, they are guarded with what programmes they show about terrorist organisations but they allow and encourage others to broadcast or publish things which could be harmfull to the general public and especially younger people.
My whole post is really about the word Proud and who decides what they should be proud of and what they should believe is just "being human". We all know about being proud parents, proud of an achievement, proud of a qualification even proud of our own willpower in giving up smoking (I would love to achieve that one and would be proud of it but have failed miserably) which brings about another point, isn't something to be proud of some form of victory over adversity ? proud that you did something, are people really proud that they managed to get overweight or couldn't put on the right amount of body weight or were born gay ? doesn't the use of the word in the wrong way take something away from those that have earned the right to be proud, for example our para-olympic acheivers ? using such a powerfull word the way the media and programmers do, to me is wrong.
In terms of Gay Pride, I always interpreted it as more of a symbol of the pride at being open to everyone about who you are, not being in the closet and being proud to be you. Dont forget that it is only in fairly recent history that homosexuality has been accepted by the wider community-not so long ago it was illegal! So in terms of gay pride, I think it is much more a celebration of being open, of gaining the right to be open without fear of reprisal, a celebration of freedom.
But FAT and proud??? Ludicrous. I am fat-size 16 to 18- and i am not proud of it, it is just who i am. I havent always been but 3 children have had an effect on my figure, and over time I hope to go back to a size 8-10. I am all for everyone being comfortable in their own skin, but its not a pride issue-and shouldnt be made into one. Just be happy with who you are. It has hardly been a struggle in the eyes of the law for the more rotund person, nor a closeted secret, so i dont understand how they can draw comparisons with gay pride.
Anyway, good post mids
But FAT and proud??? Ludicrous. I am fat-size 16 to 18- and i am not proud of it, it is just who i am. I havent always been but 3 children have had an effect on my figure, and over time I hope to go back to a size 8-10. I am all for everyone being comfortable in their own skin, but its not a pride issue-and shouldnt be made into one. Just be happy with who you are. It has hardly been a struggle in the eyes of the law for the more rotund person, nor a closeted secret, so i dont understand how they can draw comparisons with gay pride.
Anyway, good post mids
Ahhh at last someone who like me is honest about thier weight being something they are not proud of but not ashamed of, and that is what my point was at the begining, I know there are few on here who have a forgiving and liberal view on almost everything either because they live thier lives completely by a "live and let live (no matter what effect it has on others" rule or because they simply get a kick out of being controversial so will support anything, terrorists, peadophiles nothing matters so long as they get a reaction, and I know that some people will have opinions one way or another about what I am saying but are too afraid to post because you can get "jumped on" in the forums just for having a personal opinion, but it is only a subject of debate, after all that is what the cafe is for.
As for Gay Pride I still think the organisers should come up with a title that helps the movement and helps others accept them for what they are, ie normal human beings, your right it is still not accepted worldwide and as I said, in some Countries "coming out" or being "found out" would result in murder. Can anyone imagine the results of a Gay Pride march in a Taliban controlled area ? it does not bear thinking about really. Why not Gay Reality Marches, Gay People not Bad People marches, surely that would send a better message ?
And anyone who thinks being Gay is natural and not something you can do anything about is right, but for many so is being the wrong weight, I have tried many diets, yes diets, when serving in the Army I was permanently put on a diet by Military Doctors, I had to eat more food in an effort to gain weight, I would imagine the struggle I had to eat more than my appetite demanded was as hard as people find it eating less than thier appetite demanded, I am one of those whose willpower is not strong enough to stop smoking, eat more just like some who struggle with weight loss diets or alcohol abuse
If you want an example about how being gay is still not accepted in this country just look at your fellow swinging lifestylers, people you might expect to be more open minded, how many here welcome bi women but have "no bi males" on thier profiles ? some single guys have that too, they are happy to meet bi-fems even though the womans sexuality if not relevant when conducting hetrosexual play but the same profile says no bi males, we as a couple will meet bi men providing they are willing to accept that I am straight and respect that.
As for Gay Pride I still think the organisers should come up with a title that helps the movement and helps others accept them for what they are, ie normal human beings, your right it is still not accepted worldwide and as I said, in some Countries "coming out" or being "found out" would result in murder. Can anyone imagine the results of a Gay Pride march in a Taliban controlled area ? it does not bear thinking about really. Why not Gay Reality Marches, Gay People not Bad People marches, surely that would send a better message ?
And anyone who thinks being Gay is natural and not something you can do anything about is right, but for many so is being the wrong weight, I have tried many diets, yes diets, when serving in the Army I was permanently put on a diet by Military Doctors, I had to eat more food in an effort to gain weight, I would imagine the struggle I had to eat more than my appetite demanded was as hard as people find it eating less than thier appetite demanded, I am one of those whose willpower is not strong enough to stop smoking, eat more just like some who struggle with weight loss diets or alcohol abuse
If you want an example about how being gay is still not accepted in this country just look at your fellow swinging lifestylers, people you might expect to be more open minded, how many here welcome bi women but have "no bi males" on thier profiles ? some single guys have that too, they are happy to meet bi-fems even though the womans sexuality if not relevant when conducting hetrosexual play but the same profile says no bi males, we as a couple will meet bi men providing they are willing to accept that I am straight and respect that.
Good post mids.
Yes I agree, maybe the "pride" label is a bit wrong, here in manchester we have Mardi Gras, which is fantastic, and I definitely agree with the sentiments of it, but I suppose the word "pride" implies doing something against convention, or disobeying-which isnt what the whole celebration is about.
I agree with what you said about bi males, I have always found that odd, for some reason some straight males are under the bizarre impression that they are irresistable to all gay/bi males-note i said some not all-but so far i have found in general all genuine swingers very concious and concientious of others boundaries-single males particularly actually. Whereas a couple of times we have been approached by women claiming to be bi or bi curious but then through converation they reveal they have no interest in fem-and are straight which is annoying-just be honest-being straight isnt a disease!
I have to be honest I did giggle at the gay pride march in a taliban controlled area, sorry it just sounded so funny,
Yes I agree, maybe the "pride" label is a bit wrong, here in manchester we have Mardi Gras, which is fantastic, and I definitely agree with the sentiments of it, but I suppose the word "pride" implies doing something against convention, or disobeying-which isnt what the whole celebration is about.
I agree with what you said about bi males, I have always found that odd, for some reason some straight males are under the bizarre impression that they are irresistable to all gay/bi males-note i said some not all-but so far i have found in general all genuine swingers very concious and concientious of others boundaries-single males particularly actually. Whereas a couple of times we have been approached by women claiming to be bi or bi curious but then through converation they reveal they have no interest in fem-and are straight which is annoying-just be honest-being straight isnt a disease!
I have to be honest I did giggle at the gay pride march in a taliban controlled area, sorry it just sounded so funny,
Casanova
Quote by MidsCouple24
Size, colour, gender, religion does not make you special, just be happy and comfortable with what you are, whatever you are. Never be ashamed of it, there is nothing to be ashamed of, people are people.
If everyone could adopt this attitude earnestly Jed there would be no need for this discussion or for demonstrations of "pride". Problem is, it is not easy to be happy or comfortable with whatever you are, not ashamed of it etc, when everyone's on your case telling you it's wrong.
Quote by 2kinkyboots
But FAT and proud??? Ludicrous. <snip> It has hardly been a struggle in the eyes of the law for the more rotund person, nor a closeted secret, so i dont understand how they can draw comparisons with gay pride.
While it is certainly not an achievement to be overweight or obese, it is an achievement to feel comfortable in your imperfect skin while bombarded with unrealistic but prevailing ideals of beauty. Without wanting to put you on the spot 2kinky, using your testimony as an example: having gone through the momentous weight/shape shifts of pregancy and birth... you are aspiring to your pre-maternal (pubescent?) weight. Seeing that you are only moderately overweight, this has nothing to do with health but everything to do with our *perception* of what is healthy, everything to do with aesthetics and what is desirable.
It may have not been illegal to be overweight but there is a lot of prejudice and masses of pre-conceptions surrounding people that are overweight, most notably that it signifies a weakness of character because fat people cannot keep their mouth closed/control what they eat, are too lazy to exercise and so on. I find people in this country are fairly discreet about this, but where I grew up family, friends and even strangers in the street wouldn't hesitate to give you their piece of mind regarding your weight, appearance or what you should (not) be eating - yes, that's STRANGERS stopping to tell you you shouldn't be having the snack you are having because you are too fat. Amplify this on a daily basis... and you can see how one's spirits can be beat.
Rant over, "proud" to be "fat" ;)
quote
"If everyone could adopt this attitude earnestly Jed there would be no need for this discussion or for demonstrations of "pride". Problem is, it is not easy to be happy or comfortable with whatever you are, not ashamed of it etc, when everyone's on your case telling you it's wrong."
unquote
I agree, which is the very reason for the debate, the more topics are debated the more some will understand, the more they are the more people will see it as wrong.
Like many I have suffered with abuse because of my weight, being called skinny and worse was a daily occurence at school and in my early days in the forces, I would never wear clothing which revealed how slim my arms and legs were, I have learned to live with it and wear such items now but am still concious of it at all times just as I am sure many others are be it about too much body mass or too little, I have learned to be comfortable with it and accept that I am one of them that cannot control my diet, yes I could eat weight gain/protein foods, but I don't, that is something I choose to live with, but it will never be something I am proud of.
I know now, that those that insult or verbally abuse me say more about themselves than they do about me! :2fingers:
Jed, Slim and confident :rose:
"If everyone could adopt this attitude earnestly Jed there would be no need for this discussion or for demonstrations of "pride". Problem is, it is not easy to be happy or comfortable with whatever you are, not ashamed of it etc, when everyone's on your case telling you it's wrong."
unquote
I agree, which is the very reason for the debate, the more topics are debated the more some will understand, the more they are the more people will see it as wrong.
Like many I have suffered with abuse because of my weight, being called skinny and worse was a daily occurence at school and in my early days in the forces, I would never wear clothing which revealed how slim my arms and legs were, I have learned to live with it and wear such items now but am still concious of it at all times just as I am sure many others are be it about too much body mass or too little, I have learned to be comfortable with it and accept that I am one of them that cannot control my diet, yes I could eat weight gain/protein foods, but I don't, that is something I choose to live with, but it will never be something I am proud of.
I know now, that those that insult or verbally abuse me say more about themselves than they do about me! :2fingers:
Jed, Slim and confident :rose:
Sex God
Quote by bIoke
"I'm fat/gay/ginger/bald, and I don't give a toss whether you like it or not!!"?
I never knew you were gay Cubes - how long have you been going through this phase?
:rascal:
Oooh, hark at Aunty Bioke being all supportive...
Quote by bIoke
"I'm fat/gay/ginger/bald, and I don't give a toss whether you like it or not!!"?
I never knew you were gay Cubes - how long have you been going through this phase?
:rascal:
Ah, a 'phase' would predicate a start, a middle, and an end. As I've never started, therein lies the rub. ;-)
While it is certainly not an achievement to be overweight or obese, it is an achievement to feel comfortable in your imperfect skin while bombarded with unrealistic but prevailing ideals of beauty. Without wanting to put you on the spot 2kinky, using your testimony as an example: having gone through the momentous weight/shape shifts of pregancy and birth... you are aspiring to your pre-maternal (pubescent?) weight. Seeing that you are only moderately overweight, this has nothing to do with health but everything to do with our *perception* of what is healthy, everything to do with aesthetics and what is desirable.
For me it is certainly a health issue. I am too big for my frame and do not feel physically comfortable at this weight, although i am still happy enough in myself, i would feel more so to be slimmer and I have already had to accept the inevitable body changes that come with children-wider hips, stretch marks-so i dont see why i should accept excess weight too.
I am at higher risk of high blood pressure, diabetes, heart disease and osteoporosis amongst others due to my weight.
I am always glad people are happy with who they are, and wouldnt want to put a dampener on that at all, but for me, body size, whether skinny, average or fat-can never be a pride issue-just be happy with who you are. I am proud to be a good mother, I am proud of my academic achievements, but whatever my body shape has been or will be in the future is just fact, I might be proud of the journey it took me to get there though
People are predjudiced against for almost everything unfortunately, and that is unlikely to change, but I think it says more about the person judging than the judged.
Quote by 2kinkyboots
While it is certainly not an achievement to be overweight or obese, it is an achievement to feel comfortable in your imperfect skin while bombarded with unrealistic but prevailing ideals of beauty. Without wanting to put you on the spot 2kinky, using your testimony as an example: having gone through the momentous weight/shape shifts of pregancy and birth... you are aspiring to your pre-maternal (pubescent?) weight. Seeing that you are only moderately overweight, this has nothing to do with health but everything to do with our *perception* of what is healthy, everything to do with aesthetics and what is desirable.
For me it is certainly a health issue. I am too big for my frame and do not feel physically comfortable at this weight, although i am still happy enough in myself, i would feel more so to be slimmer and I have already had to accept the inevitable body changes that come with children-wider hips, stretch marks-so i dont see why i should accept excess weight too.
I am at higher risk of high blood pressure, diabetes, heart disease and osteoporosis amongst others due to my weight.
I am always glad people are happy with who they are, and wouldnt want to put a dampener on that at all, but for me, body size, whether skinny, average or fat-can never be a pride issue-just be happy with who you are. I am proud to be a good mother, I am proud of my academic achievements, but whatever my body shape has been or will be in the future is just fact, I might be proud of the journey it took me to get there though
People are predjudiced against for almost everything unfortunately, and that is unlikely to change, but I think it says more about the person judging than the judged.
Wish I could have put it so eloquently, honestly and understandbly in the first place
I have never really been understood :wink: 