near where we live there are a couple of places for youths to got to...the problem is they are mainly populated by west indian youths.....and some white children feel out of place and intimidated by going to them....this is a fact i have heard first hand....as i was involved with a local group trying to get an all weather sports pitch built.....we got a temp one after 7 years.......but now that seems to have been taken over by young men in their early twenties playing basket ball in the evening at at weekends!
The Laird made a really good post, said just about everything I would have.
But one further point................There are lots of organisations for young people that are crying out for adults to help!! If you can give up a few hours a week to help in a voluntary capacity you might make a differnce (yes its a clichey {sp} but its true). How about it....could you help??
If you do get invovled in helping at youth organisations you will certainly come across well mannered, well behaved kids who are a credit to their parents......or in some cases.....good kids in spite of their parents.
My simplist answer to problems of today...............bad kids should be excluded from main stream school, but instead of roaming the streets they should be sent to a military regime school from 7am to 7pm. If they don't attend they are "containerised" on the premisis. (FB can you correct my spelling please Miss). The legnth of the sentence to be relative to the bad behaviour. Whole point is to take the bad kids away from the good kids.
Duke of Edinburgh award to be reved up to be equivilent to an A level.
Attendance at main stream youth organisation, such as Army Cadets, scouts etc to be strongly encouraged and well funded by the Gov.
John
interesting thread but my twopenneth says the big problem nowadays is a lack of fear in the children and an inability to cope with loosing. this may sound brutal but a few posts have hinted close. when we were kids we were AFRAID to misbehave because we knew there were consequences for any bad behaviour and i dont necessarily mean a beating. in societies attempt to eliminate child abuse which i agree is heinous, we have gone too far and made the children realise that anyone who confronts them can be prosecuted for intimidating or phsical violence against a minor. and i dont necessarily mean attacking them with baseball bats but a simple shove is a criminal offence. todays society has also molly coddled these kids thru-out school, they no longer do competetive games or races - check out your own kids sports days. right thru their GCSEs they are told what to do, what to write and how to get the best results. the exams themselves have been dumbed down and the marking systems changed so no-one in todays school system has to fail or loose. so when these kids are faced with a situation where they are faced down or dont get their own way or made to look like a looser in front of their mates they cannot handle it and we have a totaly extreme reaction from them to ensure they are the winner or dont loose face in front of their peers and end up killing an inocent and public spirited member of the society that created this situation in the first place. i have six children who have been brought up with the same aim as our parents had, two are too young at 18 months and six years but of the other four two are at university and the other two are doing their a levels. they werent beaten or abused but brought up to respect others and with the knowledge that there were repurcussions for bad behavior. so i think the blame lies with us for allowing the situation to spiral whilst trying to do our best to ensure the welfare of the children against the perverts of society who i feel shouldnt have any human rights whatsoever but that is a different thread maybe. a certain amount of blame does lie with children but do you know a child who will not take full advantage of a situation ?
This kind of things touches me in a professional capacity too. i agree with nearly everyone's points!! i know, talk about sitting on the fence!!
yes we need more places for them to go i.e. youth clubs, sports clubs and the good old ymca.
yes we need to discourage kids from wanting to engage in violence
yeah they see that they have no real future, they do! yeah they are influenced but expectations of modern society etc etc.
But i have to agree with Laird. i can't go into to much detail but i believe that the kids i deal with like to think they are adults, they like to think that they are all grown up and can do very grown up things and make decisions about how they live their life. Fair enough i say, but i am a bit old fashioned and say make them know the consequences of that actions.
trouble is there are no consequences. there is no come back. teachers can't discipline them, cops can't touch them, parents daren't touch them. they are a law unto themselves and they know it.
the other day i had a kid begging me to change my mind on a decision i made, the answer was no, they stepped over the mark that i had clearly pointed out to them and that was it. it's harsh but we all have to learn the consequences of the things we do or what else is there...?
After reading other peoples views on this i spoke to my sister last night and we were talking about our up bringing. Our dad never smacked us or raised his voice but he did have 'the look'. If you got this you knew you were in trouble and then we would have to sit and discuss what we had done before deciding on our own punishment.
I think it worked really well and both my sister and myself have raised our children the same way. We never shout but discuss things and so far things have worked out. Both children are fully aware that they must face whatever happens due to their own actions.
On the other hand my nephews nursery school no longer use the term naughty apparently the use the term silly billy. This i dont understand i dont feel that it makes children aware of what they have done.
Lou
I think the tide's turning, the normally blameless variables are being looked at and normally they have an input.
I normally avoid citing one instance to generalise upon, but I will this time. My mate's a teacher and there are a couple of kids who are horrors in his class. One of them has been slapping other kids and the other day got slapped back. Cue angry parent, disgusted that her child was being bullied. When it was put to her that her child had in fact been bullying others she more or less threatened legal action.
You then have this "miracle" programmes on tv, whereupon "out of control" kids are given a regimented scheme, with rewards and discipline. Presto - they all behave well.
Now this regimented, disciplined experience can take the form of being in a ballet produtcion, or a brat camp. In any instance the core is the same, discipline and rewards. People who watch the tv nod in awe - not realising that anyone involved in the teaching of kids could tell you this. Try and recreate it outside the tv listings and parents complain and kids use the "I know my rights" card.
We were watching a news item the other day with my mate, it was about a bunch of kids who'd been accused of something, and an 80 year old had complained. The crux of it was that the police had been OTT. My mate pointed at one of the kids and said that he could tell he was playing up for the cameras, playing the innocent "It weren't me guv, I'm a loveable kiddie" act.
To put it simply certain people will blame the colour of oranges rather than the "untouchable" parents. I'm sure this will be met with a deluge of "I'm a good parent". But I am not asking parents to justify themselves, just consider the fact that many a little "darling" sin't so when he/she leaves the house.
I can't believe that some of those that posted had such idyllic child hoods where all other children were perfect.
I was raised on a sink-estate, I mean the sort of place where there were hypodermic needles everywhere, drug dealing and murders amongst other things. Some of the stories I could tell you about the children that I grew up with, how they behaved and the shitty lives and families they had.
BUT!!
My parents and family life were no different to most of the poor kids on that estate, yet I didn't rob, steal, vandalise, abuse people verbally or physically, and I never have done. But there were plenty of kids that did.
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